Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa25143; 6 Jul 93 3:45 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA01941 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Tue, 6 Jul 1993 01:21:45 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA07667 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Tue, 6 Jul 1993 01:21:02 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 01:21:02 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307060621.AA07667@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #451 TELECOM Digest Tue, 6 Jul 93 01:21:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 451 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Audiovox CTX-3200M Cellular Telephone Programming Information (B Nickless) Lobbying Powers in U.S. (was Re: Opiniongrams) (Doug Granzow) Access to Toll Records (Les Reeves) Phones That Work With "Call Answer"? (Irene Berkovich) 900 Number Portability? (Jeff Jonas) Electronic Exhibition in China Announcement (YXL6@psuvm.psu.edu) Mitel Smart-1 Dialer Programming Information Needed (Jack Decker) Nine Volt Phone Operation (was Re: Decline ...) (Jack Winslade) Looking For a Solution to Voicemail Problem (Chuck Wooters) Connecting From Poland (Steve Weimar) Re: Telepassport (was Re: Sprint Does it Again!) (Willie Smith) Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year (Steve Forrette) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Audiovox CTX-3200M Cellular Telephone Programming Information Date: Mon 05 Jul 1993 17:12:42 -0500 From: Bill Nickless I own an Audiovox CTX-3200M Cellular telephone. This is a very nice installed-in-car phone, and it includes an RJ-11 jack to accept modems, fax machines, etc. Following is what I know about NAM programming for that phone, and I'd like to know more. But first a disclaimer: I am only interested in making cellular calls expecting and intending to pay for them as per standard, legal, aboveboard service arrangments. What I'm want is control over the options and features enabled to the local user of the cellphone. Taking half a day's vacation and paying someone $25 to reprogram the phone to, say, turn off in twelve hours after the ignition key is removed instead of the standard eight hours is a wee bit excessive. My next hardware hack is a 12-volt battery with a wiring harness so that, if I run the main car battery down, I can still call AAA. I think I have all the information I need to do that. Ameritech would probably even *like* it! A big Thank You to Douglas Scott Reuben for his message of Fri, 25 Jan 1991 in the Telecom Archives about other Audiovox cellphones. The same mechanism for entering program mode applies to the CTX-3200M. Thanks go to Leroy Donnelly for his list of cellular phone technical support numbers; unfortunately, Audiovox at +1 800 229 1235 wouldn't tell me anything about this because I (truthfully) told them I wasn't a service center. *sigh* I would be interested in a) anyone confirming/denying my guesses, b) anyone adding information to what I have below, and/or c) anyone sending me the non-private settings of their CTX-3200M (or similar Audiovox product.) Don't send me your phone number(s) or lock code(s)! I don't want them! I don't need them! I don't want to be responsible for them! But if, say, you *know* you have Horn Alert enabled, I'd be interested in your values for registers 09, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14. Modulo Moderator approval, and those of you who send me information, I'll summarize results back to the Digest. Here's what I do know: (n's replace numbers You Don't Need to Know.) To put phone in program mode, enter the three-digit lock code, then # 1. To move through the list, press "*" or "#" keys. After you alter items, press . writes the values to NAM and advances you to Reg #46. resets the phone to the NAM values last 'd. Confidence values: A=Gotta Be, B=Probably Is, X=Wild Guess, Z=No Clue Original Valid My Personal Reg# Value Regex Meaning Confidence --- ----------- ----------- --------------------------------- ----------- 01 708nnnnnn8 [0-9]{10} Telephone number A 02 nn8 [0-9]{3} Standard Lock Code A 03 00020 [0-9]{5} Cellular System ID A 04 08 [0-9]{2} Overload Class B 05 10 [0-9]{2} Group ID B 06 1 [0-1]{1} Access X 07 1 [0-1]{1} Local X 08 0334 [0-9]{4} Paging channel A 09 0 [0-1]{1} Z 10 1000 [0-1]{4} Z 11 00000000 [0-1]{8} Features, left->right bits 7->0: Bit 7: Beep every minute feature A Bit 6: Power on into locked mode A Bits 5-1 Z Bit 0: Any digit answers incoming A 12 11111000 [0-1]{8} Z 13 00 [0-9]{2} Z 14 000 [0-9]{3} Z 15 nnn [0-9]{3} Call timers lock code A 16-40 00000 [0-9]{5} System IDs to inhibit B 41-45 *{0} Unwritable. A 46-47 nn, nn [0-9A-F]{2} Unwritable. NAM checksum. A Location unknown, but referred to as NAM options in user's guide: Automatic Redial: Retries busy cell cites if busy 911 Emergency Call: Allows 911 calls even if locked Call Restrictions: Set of restrictions on outbound numbers Hands-free operation: [Active on my phone, I can't seem to disable it!] Horn Alert: [Not active on my phone, may not even be connected] Safety Timer: Turn off some number of hours after car is stopped "Call timers lock code" is the code that must be entered to reset the total elapsed airtime used and number of calls made. This might be different than the standard lock code for a short-term cellphone rental outfit. "System IDs to inhibit" is a list of cellular services to ignore. The phone will say "NoSvc" rather than "Roam" in those areas. I hope this helps someone save on reprogramming fees, and I hope anyone using this information to try to defraud a cell company gets caught and thrown into the slammer! Bill Nickless System Support Group +1 708 252 7390 ------------------------------ From: dig@pro-cynosure.cts.com Subject: Lobbying Powers in U.S. (was Re: Opiniongrams) Organization: ProLine [pro-cynosure] Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 15:12:53 EDT ae446@freenet.carleton.ca (Nigel Allen) writes: > -- The key groups who are frequent communicators with Congress are > senior citizens (48 percent), followed by Pro-Life/Religious Right (15 > percent), special interest groups (14 percent) and environmentalists > (11 percent). General or across-the-board opinions made up 15 > percent. Is this saying that 48 percent of Senior Citizens communicate with Congress, or that 48 percent of those that communicate with Congress are senior citizens? Either way, this statistic demonstrates the power held by the AARP. You thought the NRA was the biggest lobbying organization in the U.S.? Think again. > [Moderator's Note: Western Union is desparately trying to stay in > business. I can't blame them, but the handwriting is on the wall. I work in a store that offers Western Union services. None of their services are cheap, but the same people who complain to us about the rates are the same ones that keep coming back. The most popular service (at our location) is the Quick Collect payment. For $10.50, you can send any amount of money to beat the deadline on your mortgage, credit card, etc., so long as the company you owe already has an arrangement with Western Union. We get about 50% commission on these, which is why we continue to offer the service, but may also be part of the reason WU is struggling. Doug Granzow (dig@pro-cynosure.cts.com) -- Cynosure BBS 410-549-2584 (free!) [Moderator's Note: Quick Collect from Western Union is going to be one of the options I begin offering customers of the Talk Ticket; that and a few currency exchanges in the Chicago area have indicated to me they would like to begin selling cards. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1993 13:40:53 -0400 (EDT) From: LESREEVES@delphi.com Subject: Access to Toll Records Two programs aired on PBS in 1992, "Nova" and "Adam Smith" dealt with privacy and access to personal information. In both programs, the example of viewing then V.P. Dan Quayle's credit report was used. In the Adam Smith program, a person named Jeffery Rothfeder used his "computer" to access Quayle's credit report. The journalist in Nova supposedly got legitmate access to Quayle's info by simply stating that he was a journalist. The credit info both of these came back with appeared to be the same thing an individual is entitled to when denied credit by a credit grantor. Both programs used the figure of 100 dollars as what they paid for other information, including long-distance records. There was no elaboration on what was meant by "records", but one would assume they meant individual call detail. I have a problem understanding how this can be so. First, assume that "long distance" is restricted to 1+ calling billed to an individual's personal telephone bill. Second, assume that the long-distance is provided by one of the three major long-distance carriers. Third, assume the person is served by a Regional Bell Operating Company Local Exchange Carrier. Fourth, assume that criminal activity is not involved, and that no law-enforcement agencies are involved. These assumptions mirror the calling-billing of many individuals. It does not seem possible that toll records are available to any entity, at any price, under the above scenario. What's going on here? ------------------------------ From: wc4209@writer.yorku.ca (Irene Berkovich) Subject: Phones That Work With "Call Answer"? Organization: Computer Assisted Writing Centre, York Univ, Toronto, Canada Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 11:13:52 -0400 I have recently subscribed to Bell Canada's "Call Answer" which is a voice mail answering service. It notifies you that there is a message waiting by changing the dial tone into a broken stacatto-like tone. Unfortunately this means that you have to pick up the telephone to see if there are any messages waiting. Are there any phones on the market (preferably Panasonic) that have a flashing light to indicate that there are messages waiting on Call Answer? Thanks. ------------------------------ From: Jeff Jonas Subject: 900 Number Portability? Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 21:28:48 -0400 (EDT) There's been talk in TELECOM Digest about 800 number portability. I was wondering if 900 numbers are portable too? What brought this to mind is a catalogue I got with an errata slip that reads: "Due to sudden changes in regulations within the telephone industry, the telephone numbers shown are incorrect ..." I do not understand - what would cause somebody to change their 900 number? If 900 numbers are now portable (as 800 numbers), then they could switch carriers and keep the existing numbers. Does this have anything to do with some companies no longer accepting billing? But how would that force then to change their numbers? Mind you, my heart doesn't bleed for these 900 services, but I'm curious about the number changes. Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix.com [Moderator's Note: It is anyone's guess what the catalog meant by 'sudden changes in regulations within the telephone industry'. If this was a sex-catalog you were reading, it might be they could no longer bill via 900. Also, at one point, all of AT&T's 900 numbers were org- anized by the cost of the call. For example, calls to 900-410-xxxx cost so much; calls to 900-234-xxxx cost so much, etc. What prefix you got on depended on what you wanted to charge. You changed your price and the phone number had to change. Maybe that is not the case any longer. How about telling us the *original* numbers which are now wrong and the *now correct* numbers printed in the errata. Maybe we can piece together the facts from the actual numbers; figure out which carrier operates what, etc. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1993 12:47:44 -0400 (EDT) From: YXL6@psuvm.psu.edu Subject: Electronic Exhibition in China Announcement Organization: Penn State University Exhibitions on electronics products, sponsored by Electronics Information Cen Ministry of Machinery & Electronics Industry, PRC, will be held in Beijing, Sha ai, and Guangzhou sequentially. Those who are interested in the exhibition can write to: Transpac Infoserv. 1816 Weaver St. State College, PA16803 for detailed information and formal application form. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 93 03:14:45 EDT From: ac388@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu (Jack Decker) Subject: Mitel Smart-1 Dialer Programming Information Needed Subject line says it ... I know a guy (not on the net) who needs the programming information for a Mitel Smart-1 PAV dialer. Apparently, Mitel won't send programming manuals to anyone other than their dealers, and none of the local dealers in his area (or mine) have one. If you have one, I'd either like to ask you a couple of questions (well, maybe a FEW more than a couple :-) or else see if we could work something out to get a copy of the manual. In fact, if you know anything at all about these units (good, bad, or indifferent) I'd like to hear from you. Please reply via e-mail so as not to waste bandwidth here in the TELECOM Digest. Thanks in advance, Jack Decker | Internet: ac388@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 93 07:20:08 CST From: Jack.Winslade@axolotl.omahug.org (Jack Winslade) Subject: Nine Volt Phone Operation (was Re: Decline ...) Reply-To: jack.winslade%drbbs@axolotl.omahug.org Organization: DRBBS Technical BBS, Omaha In a message dated 27-JUN-93, writes: > Please remember that a phone is designed to work with 48 volts, not > nine ... if you want a DTMF circuit off 9V, then I recommend creating one > yourself ... the phone probably wont work without a lot of hacking > around. CO batteries are typically around 48 volts or so, but on a POTS line when the set goes off hook, the resulting DC across the pair is usually right around 9 volts, +/- a few. Some non-telco equipment will run the loops at 24 volts with no ill effects. Ah-ha. I just remembered the case of the almost-extinct AML-1 box. This was a kludgy analog subscriber carrier used to multiplex a second POTS line over an existing physical pair. The box at the subscriber end was powered by a twelve volt nicad, trickle-charged from the physical loop when it was on hook. The on-hook voltage across the derived pair was between nine and twelve volts, and this dropped to six volts or so when the second line went off hook. Touch tones usually worked fine on these. The AML had its problems, so most of them are in the scrap heap by now. Good day. JSW Ybbat (DRBBS) 8.9 v. 3.14 r.1 (1:285/666.0) ------------------------------ From: wooters@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (Chuck Wooters) Subject: Looking For a Solution to Voicemail Problem Date: 5 Jul 1993 06:13:00 GMT Organization: ICSI (International Computer Science Institute) Hello- I'm looking for a hardware/software combination that will let me collect data over a telephone line on my PC. Specifically, I want to run some experiments in which a person calls into my PC and navigates through a "simulated" voice-operated voicemail system. It will be simulated by a person (the Wizard) who is listening to the callers voice commands and controlling the voicemail system's responses. The purpose of this setup is to be able to evaluate different speech interfaces over the telephone. Some of the features I'm looking for include: 1) The ability for a person (the Wizard) to listen to the caller and control the voice-mail system's responses. 2) Programmability. A nice C, C++, (or whatever) programming interface. (I want to be able to construct different voicemail interfaces easily.) Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions. Chuck Wooters wooters@icsi.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ From: sweimar1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Steve Weimar) Subject: Connecting From Poland Organization: Geometry Forum Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 19:33:04 GMT I'll be working in Poland for two weeks. Any advice on how I might connect to my Internet account? I'll be using a Powerbook and Supra v32biz modem. steve [Moderator's Note: One of our regular readers is in Poland and I hope he will respond with details to this ... but anyone welcome! PAT] ------------------------------ From: wpns@newshost.pictel.com (Willie Smith) Subject: Re: Telepassport (was Re: Sprint Does it Again!) Organization: PictureTel Corporation Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 13:59:11 GMT jmm@Elegant.COM (John Macdonald) writes: > Pat writes:] >> Me! I am going to be offering a new service called 'Telepassport' >> lines installed for the purpose. They will let it ring once or twice >> (best to have it ring twice to be sure I catch the signal) then hang up. > Hmm, Pat, I can recall there having been many instances where you have > disapproved of the practice of passing messages through the phone > system without paying the phone company for the use of its services [...] > Is this system not a variant on the same theme? Someone calls your > equipment to pass a message to you without your answering the call and > thus causing their call to get billed by their phone company. > [Moderator's Note: Well, we are going to be using international toll- > free (ie 800) lines from AT&T. The foreign telco won't be out anything > one way or the other. Plus, AT&T is going to be handling all our > traffic, both on the return call to the subscriber and on his outbound > call through our system. Yeah, but Pat, you didn't answer the original question: Doesn't the deliberate and continued use of "call this number, I won't pick up, I'll call you back" constitute fraud, as you are passing messages thru the phone system without paying for them? AT&T may not mind, as it's generating revenue for them indirectly, but the foreign telco isn't even getting paid for the original call to the international 800 number. Do they normally not get paid (by AT&T) for the use of their facilities for such calls? Willie Smith wpns@pictel.com N1JBJ@amsat.org [Moderator's Note: I do not know how AT&T and the PTT's settle with each other on the use of international lines from overseas which are terminated in the USA. I know when we will call back to the subscriber the call will go over AT&T to the distant PTT and the PTT will collect on those calls in the usual way from AT&T. PAT] ------------------------------ From: stevef@wrq.com (Steve Forrette) Subject: Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year Date: 5 Jul 1993 21:34:48 GMT Organization: Walker Richer & Quinn, Inc., Seattle, WA In article haynes@cats.UCSC.EDU (Jim Haynes) writes: > Not to get into the old rut of arguing whether it's the cell phone > companies' own fault that their systems are poorly designed, and all > the analogies about whether you left your door unlocked, ad > infinitum ... but it does seem that the cell system doesn't make the > best use of available technology to prevent that kind of thing. > Maybe I'm armchair quarterbacking, but it seems to me Kerberos should > be good for making cell phone accounting really secure. It would also be a good way to make all current cellphones obsolete. Keep in mind that any change in the authentication protocol would necessitate making current phones unusable -- there would be no opportunity for having both the 'old' and the 'new' phones operable. After all, then the phreaks would always imitate an 'old' phone, wouldn't they? Even once a new standard was agreed upon, a carrier would have to either require all subscribers to replace their phones with what would certainly be just a few available models at higher prices, or buy a new phone for every subscriber. And then what would they do with roamers? It sure would have been nice if they had thought of these things 15 years ago when the AMPS standard was being developed. Then again, the proliferation of cellphones has greatly exceeded even the industry's wildest expectations. Ten years ago, cellular was just getting started in most markets, and nobody had any idea just how big it would get. With all of the growth, it makes the problem of dealing with the installed base enormous for any substantial change in the protocol. Steve Forrette, stevef@wrq.com [Moderator's Note: But you know something Steve? I'll bet the cellular industry could cut a deal with two or three (or how many ever) of the major cellphone manufacturers to make new phones at a deeply discounted rate, then *give them away* to existing customers for less than the current losses due to fraud. The cell companies would have to bite the bullet and do it, but once it was over with, so would be the problem for the most part. Didn't AT&T have to make some major changes in the 'way the system worked' in the 1960's to combat not only fraud but the extremely rapid increase in telecommunications usage? Contract with Motorola and others to make new phones; cut the best deal possible. Announce a cutover date and tell the subscribers to go to any dealer with (a) their old phone and (b) proof they are a sub- scriber on some cellular service -- maybe the most recent billing. Dealer would verify the customer was in good standing with the carrier, and issue a new phone on the spot *if the carrier approved the trans- action*. Dealer would be required to keep old phone which would be sent back to the factory as part of the deal for scrapping or to be retrofitted or whatever ... there would be a conversion period of two weeks or maybe three weeks for everyone to take in their old phone and get a new phone *in the approximate price range and with the same fea- tures as their old one*. In other words, no upgrading to better quality phones (other than where security is concerned) at the expense of the cell company. At the time the conversion was to begin, and for the two or three weeks it was in progress, the carrier's software would be toggled to *ignore* ESN's it could not understand, did not recieve, etc. This would be sort of like they do now with demonstration phone numbers used by dealers: every cell phone on the premises can be used to demonstrate how it works; the tower simply is told when calls come from (cell) phone number such and such, ignore the ESN ... and don't think a few phreaks are not familiar with the cell phone number used by the Radio Shack dealer in their community and don't set their phones to go out on his 'demonstration' phone number ... :). On the closing day of the conversion, toggle that software back to normal status. Yes there would be two or three weeks of fraud galore, and yes, the cost of conversion -- giving the customer a free phone of equal value but with enhanced security -- would run in the millions of dollars. How much is fraud costing now? I'd be very surprised if the conversion was not amortized in several months or a year at best. Once it was over with, the old phones would be worth zilch, that is, in the event you decided to keep a few and try to bluff the carriers. You watch, there will be a major shakeup and reform before long ... there has to be the way the cell carriers are being eaten alive. PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #451 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa26808; 6 Jul 93 4:54 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA11756 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Tue, 6 Jul 1993 02:29:33 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA18373 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Tue, 6 Jul 1993 02:29:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 02:29:01 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307060729.AA18373@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #452 TELECOM Digest Tue, 6 Jul 93 02:29:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 452 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson First Announcement/On-Line Congressional Hearing (Journet via Nigel Allen) Help Wanted Addressing Email (John Hurst) International Yellow Pages Wanted (Hindra Irawan) Answering Machine Bypass Code Information Wanted (Dennis Mitchell) Telephone Gateway Information Wanted (J. van Zijll de Jong) Auto Call Back on Collect Call? (juyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu) How to Get EIA/TIA Standards? (Marko Ilari Silventoinen) Re: How to Destroy a COCOT (Justin Greene) Re: How to Destroy a COCOT (Charles Stephens) Re: Value Added Voice Services (Steve Forrette) Re: Time Signals via Modem (Louis A. Mamakos) Re: GSM Security (Haakon Styri) Re: Only in Texas (Charles Stephens) More About Counterfeiting (Andrew Finkenstadt) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 02:08:30 EDT From: ae446@freenet.carleton.ca (Nigel Allen) Subject: First Announcement/On-Line Congressional Hearing Organization: Echo Beach Reply-To: ae446@freenet.carleton.ca I found the following message on the JOURNET@QUCDN.BITNET mailing list. From: David Farber Subject: First Announcement/On-Line Congressional Hearing Station: Internet Multicasting Service Channel: Internet Town Hall Program: On-Line Congressional Hearing Release: July 5, 1993 Content: First Announcement/On-Line Congressional Hearing On July 26 at 9:30AM EDT, the Subcommittee on Telecommunications and Finance of the U.S. House of Representatives will hold the first Congressional Hearing ever held over a computer network. The oversight hearing on "The Role of Government in Cyberspace" will take place in the Grand Ballroom of the National Press Club at 14th and F Streets, N.W., Washington, D.C. The hearing is open to the public. An open house will be held from 3 - 5PM on the same day in the same location and is also open to the public. Chairman Markey has asked that this historic occasion demonstrate the potential and diversity of the global Internet. Thirty Sparcstations will be in the hearing room, allowing members of Congress, staff, and their guests to read e-mail, use Gopher menus, read testimony in WAIS databases, browse the World Wide Web, and otherwise use the resources of the global Internet as part of the hearing. Some witnesses for the hearing will testify remotely, sending audio and video over the Internet. Audio and video of the hearing will also be multicast over the Multicast Backbone (MBONE). We are hoping that C-SPAN and other traditional media will also carry the event. *MORE DETAILS ON MBONE AND OTHER WAYS TO WATCH THE HEARINGS REMOTELY WILL BE FORTHCOMING SHORTLY.* One of the primary points that we are hoping to demonstrate is the diversity and size of the Internet. We have therefore established an electronic mail address by which people on the Internet can communicate with the Subcommittee before and during the hearing: congress@town.hall.org We encourage you to send your comments on what the role of government should be in the information age to this address. Your comments to this address will be made part of the public record of the hearing. Feel free to carry on a dialogue with others on a mailing list, cc'ing the e-mail address. Your cards and letters to congress@town.hall.org will help demonstrate that there are people who use the Internet as part of their personal and professional lives. We encourage you to send comments on the role of government in cyberspace, on what role cyberspace should play in government (e.g., whether government data be made available on the Internet), on how the Internet should be built and financed, on how you use the Internet, and on any other topic you feel is appropriate. This is your chance to show the U.S. Congress that there is a constituency that cares about this global infrastructure. If you would like to communicate with a human being about the hearing, you may send your comments and questions to: hearing-info@town.hall.org Support for the Internet Town Hall is provided by Sun Microsystems and O'Reilly & Associates. Additional support for the July 26 on-line congressional hearing is being provided by ARPA, BBN Communications, the National Press Club, Xerox PARC, and many other organizations. Network connectivity for the Internet Town Hall is provided by UUNET Technologies. Nigel Allen, Toronto, Ontario, Canada ae446@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ From: jhurst@netcom.com (John Hurst) Subject: Help Wanted Addressing Email Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 03:43:59 GMT I am trying to find an email route to my dad in Omaha. He says his address from denver is omhp/nwnt11/thurst. Thanks in advance for your help. John Hurst jhurst@netcom.com ------------------------------ From: irawan@netcom.com (Hindra Irawan) Subject: International Yellow Pages Wanted Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 04:00:08 GMT I need help locating distributor/publisher/supplier for computer readable (CDROM/tape/disks any format) of international yellow pages. Does this thing even exist? I thank you for any leads that you can provide me. Hindra Irawan hin@aol.com irawan@netcom.com ------------------------------ From: mitchell@cwis.unomaha.edu (Dennis Mitchell) Subject: Answering Machine Bypass Code Informatio Wanted Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 03:18:47 GMT I'm looking for a new answering machine, I've heard that one with the features I want exists, but I have no idea who makes it. My fiance works nights, and sleeps during the day. When she's in bed, she unplugs the phone and lets her answering machine take all the calls. Generally that's all right, but _sometimes_ there are calls that she needs to receive right away. We need to find an answering machine that will prevent the phone from ringing unless the caller enters a bypass code of some sort. Can anyone offer a suggestion on where to look? ------------------------------ From: J.VanZijll@massey.ac.nz (J van Zijll de Jong) Subject: Telephone Gateway Information Wanted Organization: School of Maths and Info Sciences, Massey University, NZ. Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 01:59:06 GMT Does anyone have any information on telephone gateways. I am doing a fourth year project at Massey University New Zealand on home automation. I am interested in being able to have remote operation of the home control system via the telephone. I know that SMART HOUSE has a AT&T telephone gateway, but I have been unable to get any information on it. Do you know of any other products avaiable that would be relevant to my project. Thanks, Jeroen ------------------------------ From: juyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu Subject: Auto Call Back on Collect Call? Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 01:21:47 -0500 After reading recent posting about passing the message without accepting the collect call, I just wonder if the auto callback feature can work on those unaccepted collect calls. For example, a person call collect from a payphone, can the other party say no to the telco, that is, not accepting the call, but use auto call back to call the payphone (provided it accepts incoming call) and talk to the party there? [Moderator's Note: This will not work because auto callback like other CLASS features relies on getting the number of the calling party. When the call goes through the operator, the called party's number is not sent along to the end recipient. In other words, if the operator calls you it shows up as 'outside' on the Caller-ID box. Auto callback attempts will fail, and the computer will tell you either it has for- gotten the number, or never had it to begin with, or similar. What you *can* do, although it is illegal and a violation of tariff is have the calling party call you *person to person collect*. When someone answers and tells the operator you are not there, the calling party can ask the operator to 'leave word'. She will then leave a message with the person who answered your phone saying 'Ask Mr. Smith to call Mr. Brown in Chicago. Dial the long distance operator, ask for Operator 7 and the Chicago number 312-xxx-xxxx." Now there is no such person as 'Operator 7' (or maybe the number has since been changed). That is merely a code phrase which tells *any* AT&T operator handling the return call to put the call through and bill it at operator assisted person to person rates and show Chicago as the originating point of the call for inter-company billing purposes, etc. When you receive this message, instead of going through the Operator 7 routine, you simply dial the Chicago number at station dial rates, saving quite a bit of money (again assuming the payphone he called from accepts incoming calls.) Like other collect call scams where a message is passed but no one pays for it; it is illegal to return the call direct without advising AT&T to bill it at person to person rates, but at least the company gets some money out of the deal; all they lost was the operator's time and surcharge. PAT] ------------------------------ From: s35316s@puukko.hut.fi (Marko Ilari Silventoinen) Subject: How to Get EIA/TIA Standards? Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 06:26:57 GMT Hello there, Could somebody tell me how can I obtain EIA/TIA standards? The address or telefax number of TIA office would do also. Thank you in advance, Marko Silventoinen, PhD student of Helsinki University of Technology, Finland. ------------------------------ From: jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) Subject: Re: How to Destroy a COCOT Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 22:52:15 GMT > (useful for voicemail, calling cards, etc.). Can anyone recommend a > good tone dialer? Are they available in general electronics stores? Radio Shack sells a few models the cheapest being about $20.00. > 2. If I use a COCOT to place a collect call to Canada, then assuming > the call goes through at all, can I assume the party in Canada will > be charged only the standard rate for a collect call (as opposed to > the exorbitant AOS rate)? I've always assumed that the AOS would have > no way of charging their high rates for collect calls to Canada because > of the monopoly situation in Canada. Am I right? Which standard rate? Be careful as a lot of COCOTS use small expensive third party carriers. They should however allow you to select a carrier using 10xxx0. Justin [Moderator's Note: On a collect call, the rate charged is the rate in effect at the telco originating the call and per the time of day at the place of origin ... the recipient's telco rates or his time of day have no bearing on it. He is simply agreeing to pay on behalf of the caller. PAT] ------------------------------ From: cfs@mathcs.emory.edu (Charles Stephens (ast GA uucpMC - exp 1/9/93)) Subject: Re: How to Destroy a COCOT Date: 6 Jul 1993 03:32:28 GMT Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS Well if it isn't so profitable, then why aren't there less COCOTS and AOS's around?!?! Wouldn't they go belly up sooner or later? Charles Stephens cfs@mathcs.emory.edu DISCLAIMER: I am a guest a Emory's Math and CS Dept., all opinions expressed, except those quoted by others, are my own, and not those of said organization. [Moderator's Note: A lot of them have gone out of business. People have gone into the COCOT business knowing diddly about the telecom industry, and wound up getting eaten alive by fraud and vandalism to their phones. COCOTS are not a get rich quick business. If you have a bunch of COCOTS out on the street you must pay attention to them. They are as subject to vandalism and theft as the 'genuine Bell phones' plus they have the distinct disadvantage of no central office intelligence. So the owner either programs them correctly or he stands to lose big time. PAT] ------------------------------ From: stevef@wrq.com (Steve Forrette) Subject: Re: Value Added Voice Services Date: 5 Jul 1993 21:52:07 GMT Organization: Walker Richer & Quinn, Inc., Seattle, WA In article deej@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (david.g.lewis) writes: > In article itbkl@puknet.puk.ac.za >> 2. When making calls from some hotel rooms, all the numbers dialed are >> intercepted, printed out, and used by hotel staff when calculating >> your bill. When you dial the card-calling service, your ID (or >> card-number) AND your secret number, is also printed out. > Actually, it isn't. The hotel switch receives only the tones used to > reach the card service provider. It then cuts through the voice path, > and the remaining tones are sent directly to the card service > provider. If the hotel were to monitor and intercept those tones, it > would be in violation of those same wiretap laws. I know someone that used to be the front desk manager at a hotel. With their equipment, which was in common use at many hotels a few years ago, the calling card number was definately recorded by the hotel's equipment. This was in the days before integrated billing equipment at the front desk. Each device that generated charges for the guest printed out its own ticker of the charges, which the front desk clerk then manually keyed into the register to put on the guest's folio. The pay-per-view cable machine printed out little tickets which were keyed in by hand, and the PBX did the same. For every call that was placed, the PBX would print out a single line on an 80 column dot matrix printer. The guest would dial 9+ for a local call, and 8-1+ for a long distance call billed to the room, or 8-0+ for a long distance call billed collect or to a calling card. In any event, all digits dialed from the guests phone (up to the first 32 digits) were printed on the printer, including the called number (of course) and the calling card number. This was not done for any nefarious purpose, but simply because the device that recorded the digits was too dumb to do anything else. The front desk personnel were trained to just ignore the 8-0+ calls, and only enter charges for the other ones. My friend who was the manager said that the other front desk personnel weren't bright enough to figure out what the other digits were -- they were told by the manager to just ignore the 8-0 calls, and that's what they did. He did note that there was a large opportunity for anyone that knew what the digits were to have a constant supply of valid stolen calling card numbers. I would imagine that the AT&T fraud people would be able to corrolate that a large number of cards that are used at a particular establishment were later reported compromised, and would be able to have the management look into it. But the bottom line is that this definately was wide-spread in the 80's. Now, most hotels have integrated compter systems, where the PBX feeds the charges directly into the billing computer, so the clerk never sees the SMDR directly. Steve Forrette, stevef@wrq.com ------------------------------ From: louie@sayshell.umd.edu (Louis A. Mamakos) Subject: Re: Time Signals via Modem Date: 6 Jul 1993 01:46:03 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, College Park In article dannyb@panix.com (Daniel Burstein) writes: > You can -guess- based on phone line distance, but there are so many > factors involved (what route was taken, what's the built in delay from > signal processing ... or, to paraphrase Admiral Harper: "How many > nanoseconds are there between your system and Fort Collins?") that you > really are just making a guess. Arrggg ... it's Admiral Grace Hopper. She's only been dead a short time now. I'm glad I was able to see her in person giving a talk on the "stone-age" of computing and other interesting topics. Louis Mamakos ------------------------------ From: Haakon.Styri@nta.no (YuNoHoo) Subject: Re: GSM Security Organization: Norwegian Telecom Research Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 02:09:14 GMT lmcrajy@noah.ericsson.se (Raj Sanmugam) writes: > The governments consider the security measures in the GSM system as > "Too secure". I am not familiar with the #435 comments. But, I think > the GSM security measures should make it much more difficult, if not > impossible, to penetrate the system. The security measures you are thinking about here wouldn't be the authentication scheme, but rather the encryption of signalling and the data ("speech" or whatever). Encryption of the signalling does of course help against fraud, but encrypting the data channel is more of a privacy question. The way GSM was designed the authentication is mandatory, but the encryption is optional. If either the handset or the base station doesn't turn on encryption it will not be used. However, even a flexible design may turn into a political hot potato when the subject is encryption. I'll say no more (in this group anyway). Haakon Styri std. disclaimer applies. ------------------------------ From: cfs@mathcs.emory.edu (Charles Stephens (ast GA uucpMC - exp 1/9/93)) Subject: Re: Only in Texas Date: 6 Jul 1993 03:28:05 GMT Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS Randal L. Schwartz (merlyn@ora.com) wrote: > In article , khx@se44.wg2.waii.com (K > Husain) writes: >> I saw a similar listing in the Austin, residence pages by a Heanauder >> Titzhoff a few years ago. Don't see him here now. If I remember >> correctly some guy did answer the phone and acknowldege the name when >> my roommate had called. Found it quite by accident actually ... > Several years ago, one of the Portland Oregon phonebook whitepages had > "FARRAH ... FAWCETT" as the range of last names covered on that page. > No kidding. While we are on the subject, the Atlanta white pages lists as the last resident: ZZMMTHISJ Zibre 123 Elm St. SW Mreta --- 555-1212 (Phone and address changed obviously...) It think his (or is his hers?) parents wanted to ensure that person would show up last in any alphabetical listing ... Charles Stephens cfs@mathcs.emory.edu DISCLAIMER: I am a guest a Emory's Math and CS Dept., all opinions expressed, except those quoted by others, are my own, and not those of said organization. [Moderator's Note: The last one in Chicago for several years -- as long as I can remember -- has been Mr. Zzyxy. He exists, they say. PAT] ------------------------------ From: andy@vistachrome.com (Andrew Finkenstadt) Subject: More on Counterfeiting Reply-To: andy@vistachrome.com Organization: Vista-Chrome, Inc. Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 05:47:44 GMT Our Esteemed Moderator noted: > Counterfeiting requires a claim by the person making the > reproduction that his scrip is the currency of the United States. A > printed repudiation on the scrip is all that is required; note the > newspaper advertising coupons which include 'savings dollars' and the > like; any 'too close to the real thing' always have a disclaimer > printed on them. It is a requirement of the Secret Service to make ANY color copies of money via press, xerography or sublimation less than 75% or more than 150% of the original size in all cases. Even then sometimes they will come after you for other specks in your eye, ignoring the plank in the eyes of the Miami hoods. We (Vista-Chrome) once printed a dollar savings book which had pictures of various kinds of money including coinage and bills which was distributed in the Seattle area. They traced it back to us in Tallahassee, came in, said they wanted the the film, the plates, any spoilage, the camera readies, and never to do that again. Andrew Finkenstadt | andy@{homes.com,vistachrome.com,genie.geis.com} Systems Analyst | Vista-Chrome, Homes & Land Publishing Corporation | 1600 Capital Circle SW, Tallahassee Florida 32310 +1 904-575-0189 | GEnie Postmaster, Unix & Internet RoundTables Sysop ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #452 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa21519; 7 Jul 93 2:25 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA14171 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Tue, 6 Jul 1993 23:58:50 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA29336 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Tue, 6 Jul 1993 23:58:08 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 23:58:08 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307070458.AA29336@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #453 TELECOM Digest Tue, 6 Jul 93 23:58:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 453 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (Brendan B. Boerner) Canada <--> US Call Rates (was Re: How to Destroy a COCOT) (Steve Kass) Exclusion Module Question (Michael Weigang) BBS to Internet Connection (Thomas Hinders) Any Communication Exposition/Show in the Near Future? (Heng Chu) Northern Telecom Wins AGT Pact (Washington Times via Paul Robinson) North American Numbering Plan (Bob Schwartz) Digital Signature Patents (Paul Robinson) Some More Historical Questions (Martin McCormick) Most Economical Way to Call Canada From UK (Tony Palik) Touchtone Pad Needed (George Thurman) DID Chip? (Seth B. Rothenberg) Canadian Telecoms Law (Tyson Macaulay) SL-1 Msg Waiting Light Always On! (Richard Hyde) Re: Caller ID via 800 Number (tanner@ki4pv.compu.com) Re: Gnocchi al Telefono (Frederick Roeber) New House Problems (Chris Ambler) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BBOERNER@novell.com (Brendan B. Boerner) Subject: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 Organization: Novell, Inc. --Austin Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 15:45:07 GMT I was reading in the {Austin Chronicle} the other day that Cox Enterprises, Inc. (big paper chain, owns the {Austin American Statesman}) and BellSouth have announced an "agreement in principle" to form a joint company that will deliver information services to consumers who dial 511 (for a small fee of course). I think the Austin A-S has been trying to generate demand for such a service by offering a service where you can call them up and get additional information about a topic or whatnot in the paper by punching in a four digit code next to the article or whatever you were reading. Presumably if they are ever able to charge for this then they will have hooked some percentage of current callers. My questions are: Who controls the allocation of N11 numbers? And if presumably the allocation is controlled by a regulatory body and not the phone company, why in God's name would these guys even think of allocating such a number so phone companies/newspapers can make a buck? Tell them to get a phone number like the rest of us ... Let's see: 111 - can phone equipment distinquish between this and a L.D. call? 211 - ? 311 - ? 411 - Directory assistance 511 - Proposed information services 611 - ? 711 - ? 811 - ? 911 - Emergency services This means that there would be five, maybe six codes left over. Hmmm, I wonder if we can think of a better use for 511. Later, Brendan B. Boerner Phone: 512/346-8380 MHS: bboerner@novell Internet: bboerner@novell.com \ Please use either if replying or Brendan_Boerner@novell.com / by mail exterior to Novell. Disclaimer: My views are my own, not Novell's. They pay me to write code, not speak for them. [Moderator's Note: Don't forget 611 in your list above which is often used for repair service. 811 is used in California to reach the phone company business office. Of course, 011 is used as a prefix for inter- national calls from the USA. Within any given area code, the telco of record (as often as not, a Bell company) is responsible for doling out the exchanges or prefixes. For instance, in 312/708, Illinois Bell arranges for Centel to have certain prefixes, keeping others for their own use. I think elsewhere in Illinois, IBT also controls the process and arranges with the other telcos in the state regards who gets what. With this in mind, BellSouth (although I think you mean Southwestern Bell) can pretty much do as they please with 511 within their territory, so long as it does not conflict with the same code being used by some other telco in the area code. *Area code* assignments are a different matter. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1993 12:06:44 -0400 (EDT) From: SKASS@DREW.DREW.EDU Subject: Canada <--> US Call Rates (was Re: How to Destroy a COCOT) In TELECOM Digest Volume 13 : Issue 452 The Moderator noted: > [Moderator's Note: On a collect call, the rate charged is the rate in > effect at the telco originating the call and per the time of day at > the place of origin ... the recipient's telco rates or his time of day > have no bearing on it. He is simply agreeing to pay on behalf of the > caller. PAT] The recipient's telco rates can affect the cost of a call. When I was living in Canada five years ago, I found this was the case for some calling card calls. The situation was this: AT&T calling card Bell Canada calling card ============================================= | Bell Canada rate for a Call from US to AT&T rates | call entirely within Canada | Canada based on distance | called! ============================================= | Call from Canada Bell Canada rate | Bell Canada rate to US converted to $US | | In a perfect world, the upper right box should read AT&T rate converted to $Cdn. Since AT&T carried the call, it should be their rate, right? Anyway, after paying very high rates for such calls, I started using a friend's AT&T card for calls back to Canada. It never made sense to me, but I read the tariffs and they backed up this assymetrical rate structure. Does anyone know if this is still the case? Steve Kass, Math/CS, Drew U, Madison, NJ 07940 skass@drew.drew.edu, 201-514-1187 ------------------------------ From: mweigang@umce.umext.maine.edu (Michael Weigang) Subject: Exclusion Module Question Organization: University of Maine Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 13:36:53 GMT We have offices where multiple modems and phones are connected to the same phone line. We run into problems with people placing voice or modem calls while someone is already connected via modem. We are experimenting with a device called a 41405 Station Exclu- sion Module from Proctor. Apparently, this device, when connected to each modem and phone in the office, will prevent someone from beaking into another's call. How does this device work? (I have a very limited knowledge of phone systems.) Is this the best solution for our problem? BTW, all phones in our offices run through key systems like a Merlin, or Panasonic 616. Michael Weigang University of Maine e-mail: mweigang@umce.umext.maine.edu Cooperative Extension, Rm 114 Phone: (207) 581-3871 5741 Libby Hall Fax: (207) 581-1387 Orono, ME 04469-5741 ------------------------------ Date: 06 Jul 1993 10:28:10 EDT From: Hinders, Thomas Subject: BBS to Internet Connection I have a friend who is setting up a BBS system (for the Commonwealth of PA). He would like the BBS to be able to pass messages to/from the Internet. Fidonet came to mind. Could someone point me towards information on obtaining Fidonet access, etc. Does anyone have any other suggestions. Thanks............. Tom Hinders/Soft-Switch +1 215 640 7487 (v/vm) +1 215 640 7511 (f) Internet: thinder@SSW.COM X.400: C=US A=Telemail P=Softswitch S=Hinders G=Thomas [Moderator's Note: Have your friend check a local BBS list for Fido sites. Any local FIDO sysop would be able to refer him to the coordinator for the local network and arrange for him to get a 'node number' and be part of the node listings which come out weekly. Or, your friend could run a BBS using something similar to Waffle; this has UUCP mail and news as part of the package. Then all he has to do is cut a deal with a local public access Unix site to get a news feed and mail from them. I imagine this message will prompt at least a few people in your vicinity to write a note with offers of help, etc. PAT] ------------------------------ From: chu@cs.unc.edu (Heng Chu) Subject: Any Communication Exposition/Show in the Near Future? Date: 6 Jul 1993 16:05:54 -0400 Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (I am asking this for my friend who has no access to news service. My friend wants to know if there is any communication exposition/show (NOT of academic type) in the coming few months. Any information or pointer will be appreciated. Please reply to me (chu@cs.unc.edu) and I will pass on the information. Thanks a lot! Heng Chu chu@cs.unc.edu ------------------------------ Reply-To: TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM From: Paul Robinson Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1993 16:11:33 EDT Subject: Northern Telecom Wins AGT Pact Page B4, {Washington Times}, 6/6/93 "Edmonton, Alberta - Northern Telecom Ltd. received a three-year contract worth more than $18 million from AGT Ltd. to supply copper, fiber optics and cable. AGT, Canada's third-largest telephone company, operates the phone system for most of the province of Alberta and is the main unit of Telus Corp. Northern Telecom's U.S. unit is also a major supplier of telephone equipment." ------------------------------ Subject: North American Numbering Plan From: bob@bci.nbn.com (Bob Schwartz) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 93 14:23:59 PDT Organization: Bill Correctors, Inc., Marin County, California Sure enough, the North American Numbering Plan seems to be cuumbling before our eyes. The introduction of "1 and 0" as the second digit for NPA and NNX is tough enough but when I asked a Pacific Bell executive what will happen in 1994 (my estimate) when LATA competition is authorized, he looked puzzled. I explained my question further by asking if local numbers had been set aside for competition as was the case for 800#'s prior to portability. I also asked if portability would be a feature of Lata competition. The answer - We don't know yet Belcore hasn't told us, but we just may have to implement ten digit local, intra-LATA, accross the street , dialing like they have in parts of New York. Imagine, 1 + ten digits to call the apartment next door! Bob Schwartz bob@bci.nbn.com Bill Correctors, Inc. +1 415 488 9000 Marin County, California [Moderator's Note: Hey, I have to dial 1 + 708 to call fifty feet across the street to the McDonald's to have them fix and bring me my dinner. I am right on an area code boundary between 312/708 (Howard Street). You'll survive! PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 22:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Subject: Digital Signature Patents From: Paul Robinson Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA It has been mentioned that there is an E-Mail address related to the Digital Signature Patent item. It is as follows: The eMail address for: Michael R. Rubin Active Chief Counsel for Technology Room A-1111, Administration Building, National Institute of Standards and Technology Gaithersburg, Maryland 20899 (301) 975-2803. mrubin@cam.nist.gov Paul Robinson - TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM ------------------------------ Subject: Some More Historical Questions Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1993 16:38:30 -0500 From: Martin McCormick The discussion of the origin of the -48 volt DC telephone line voltage reminds me of an interesting story told by a Southwestern Bell official who appeared on a radio talk show, once. He said that when Oklahoma became a state on November 16, 1907, a speech was broadcast from Oklahoma City to Tulsa via telephone line so that Tulsans could participate in the celebration. The account of this hookup said that the governor spoke into a water-cooled microphone in Oklahoma City and the signal was audible in Tulsa, about 100 Miles to the Northeast. I actually called into the talk show and asked the official for more details about the setup, but he only had that schetchy account. In 1907, vacuum tubes were in their infancy, if available, so it almost sounds like they just ran an incredible current through that microphone and used water to keep it from doing a melt-down. The audio in Tulsa must have been really fabulous after 100 miles of open-wire unequalized line. If anybody has actual knowledge of a similar system, please give us a technical description. In that day and time, this type of telecommunication was probably as amazing to the listeners as holograms or tiny cell phones are, today. Martin McCormick WB5AGZ Stillwater, OK O.S.U. Computer Center Data Communications Group [Moderator's Note: Yours is the second time I've heard that story, and it is hard to imagine how it was done. My grandfather was born about 1880 near (what was then) Tulsa, Indian Territory, in a small town called Tahlequah. As a young man he was an administrative assistant to the federal governor who oversaw or administered Indian Territory. He told me about being at the ceremony when the federal government officially disincorporated Indian Territory simultaenously with the establishment of Oklahoma as a state in the USA. He kept telling me they 'broadcast the ceremony over the radio' and I kept telling him they didn't likely have radios then. 'Well,' he said, 'they took turns talking in a microphone to people ...'. Grandpa was almost eighty years old when he told me about this, and his memory from a half-century before was not good. Amazing technology? By the time grandpa left us he had seen in his lifetime: the invention of radio, television, talking movies, airplanes, automobiles, computers, countless other things; he saw the telephone and electricity come into very wide acceptance and use as well, bringing with widespread electrical distribution the use of refriger- ators, fans, household lighting, etc. Can you imagine coming into a world with none of those things as a young person growing up and and having all of them in your daily life when you leave? Will we ever see another century like the 20th in terms of sheer variety of inventions and technological changes? Of course *I* remember when there were no computers and television was only something that a few very rich people had in their houses and phones were black instruments with a round dial if you lived in a place where the exchange was 'modern'. I suppose given life-expectancy rates I will be around until 2030 or so, and many of you will be around until 2070. Given the changes in the past century, doesn't it blow your mind to think of what technology will be like when *you* depart? I know it excites me. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 08:49:00 +0000 From: Tony (A.T.) Palik Subject: Most Economical Way to Call Canada from UK I will shortly be moving from Canada to the UK on a semi-permanent basis. My wife and I have a number of relatives here in Canada and will call them on a regular basis. Being aware of the rates from BT and Mercury, I thought I could use my Bell Canada Calling Card and make my calls through Canada Direct. No luck. Bell won't let you keep a Calling Card if you don't have a home phone number to bill it to. In an attempt to give me more choices, I have obtained both MCI and Sprint Cards through no small amount of grief (at least with MCI. What do you mean you don't have a zip code ? A story for another day). I can therefore route calls through the US to Canada. My question is, have others facing this situation determined what provider offers the best rate? Are there other providers that offer better rates? I'm reluctant to go to AT&T given who I work for. Tony Palik +1-613-763-8883|Bell Northern Internet : tpalik@bnr.ca |Research Ltd. Ottawa ENVOY 100 : TONY.PALIK |Ontario, Canada ------------------------------ From: gst@gagme.chi.il.us (George Thurman) Subject: Touchtone Pad Needed Organization: GAGME - Public Access UNIX of Chicago, Illinois, USA, Earth Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 12:06:00 GMT Does anyone know where I can buy some old Western Electric Touch-Tone pads? I need the real old ** POLARITY SENSIVIVE ** type. Please E-mail me. Thanks !! GEORGE S. THURMAN (312) 509-6308 gst@gagme.chi.il.us ------------------------------ From: rothen+@pitt.edu (Seth B Rothenberg) Subject: DID Chip? Date: 6 Jul 93 19:02:26 GMT Organization: University of Pittsburgh Having resolved that there's no cheaper substitute for DID service, I would like to ask if there is anyone who knows where I could find out if there is a chip that supports DID? (I figure, if you can buy a telephone-on-a-chip at Radio Shack, maybe there's a chance you can buy DID-on-a-chip someplace ... it does not need to be as close as the Radio Shack up the street.) Thanks, Seth ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 15:28:38 EDT From: Tyson=Macaulay%DTP%DGCP=HQ=ADMSR@dgbt.banyan.doc.ca Subject: Canadian Telecom Law It occured to me that I never saw this press release posted anywhere on the 'net. (Better late than never.) Though this is an offical Canadian Government press release, I regret that it cannot be made available in both offical languages. This is due to the fact that french, with it accents and hyphens, is incompatible with the ASCII format. I tried and failed to send the French version with the English version. If there is a way around this I would appreciate hearing about it. Regards, Tyson Macaulay e-mail: tyson@debra.dgbt.doc.ca tmacaula@ccs.carleton.ca Communications Canada 7th Floor, Journal Tower North 300 Slater Street Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0C8 ---------------------------------- JUNE 23, 1993 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Canada has its first Telecommunications Act OTTAWA -- Communications Minister Perrin Beatty today announced that Canada now has, for the first time in its history, comprehensive telecommunications legislation. Bill C-62, the Telecommunications Act, today received Royal Assent. The new legislation will replace a mixture of outdated Acts that had been used to regulate telecommunications. "Canadians everywhere will benefit from the passage of the Telecommunications Act," said Mr. Beatty. "This forward-looking piece of legislation will open the doors to new communications products and services, and will help to propel our already world famous telecommunications industry into the twenty-first century. This legislation will also help to protect Canadian consumers from intrusive or abusive telemarketing practices, including 'junk' faxes." Before C-62, telecommunications was governed by a mixture of The Railway Act, the National Telecommunications Powers and Procedures Act, the Telegraphs Act, and a number of special Acts. C-62's focus on a unified national regulatory structure will help to accelerate the market entry of new products and services, to the benefit of both consumers and businesses. "C-62 is the first successful overhaul of telecommunications legislation in over 60 years," added Mr. Beatty. "As such, it is also the first piece of legislation that can pave the way for the Electronic Highway System, which depends heavily on advances in telecommunications technology. With the Telecommunications Act, Canadians and Canadian businesses will be able to take full advantage of the leading-edge telecommunications media that are just around the corner!" Contacts: Charles Chenard Minister's Office Ottawa, Ontario (613) 990-6886 ------------------------------ From: rah@netcom.com (Richard Hyde) Subject: SL-1 Msg Waiting Light Always on! Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 17:05:36 GMT I've got a puzzle that I hope someone out there can help me with. We have an NT SL-1 switch with M2616 sets attached. Our VP Sales has a message waiting light that remains lit, even when all messages have been deleted from the list. Unplugging the phone briefly causes the light to extinguish for a few seconds, but then the switch re-activates it. Performing a DISU followed by an ENLU has no effect. The manuals seem to have no information on this situation, but then again, they are NT manuals and the information could be anywhere :-) Right before this problem with the light occured, I had programed this DN and two others to appear on the area associates desk. Both of the other two DNs are working correctly. Thanks for the help! Richard Hyde RaH@netcom.com ------------------------------ From: tanner@ki4pv.compu.com Subject: Re: Caller ID via 800 Number Organization: CompuData Inc., DeLand Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 09:26:04 GMT > If you are receiving harrasing calls, call your telco's business > office and explain the situation. If you are in Southern Bell territory, you can save some time by not doing this. All they will do is try to sell you a service where, for so much a month (or so much per use) they will print the caller's number inside their office. While they won't give it to you, they may offer some co-operation (for a fee) with law enforcement. This phone co practice makes it more costly to be the victim of harrassing callers. Of course, the phone company profits by this crime, and therefore does nothing effective to discourage it. I wonder if I can charge the deputies $4.50 the next time I am a witness to crime, thereby profiting from it, or if the privilege of profiteering is restricted to phone companies. ------------------------------ From: roeber@vxcrna.cern.ch (Frederick Roeber) Subject: Re: Gnocchi al Telefono Reply-To: roeber@cern.ch Organization: CERN -- European Organization for Nuclear Research Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 08:33:33 GMT In article , bellutta@ohsu.EDU (Paolo Bellutta) writes: > In article gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia. edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes: >> Gnocchi al Telefono > I'm Italian, an I never heard about such a kind of Gnocchi. You guys are missing the obvious solution: they don't make it themselves -- they order out for it! Frederick G. M. Roeber | CERN -- European Center for Nuclear Research ------------------------------ From: cambler@cymbal.calpoly.edu (Chris Ambler -- Phish) Subject: New House Problems Organization: The Phishtank Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1993 09:02:39 GMT I've just moved into a new house, and took all 11 analog lines plus the two ISDN BRIs we have. What a hassle. The problem I'm having is that hangups don't seem to be recognized by some of my equipment now! The answering machines don't recycle when the user hangs up, but wait for five seconds of silence. A few of the modems cannot detect when the remote site hangs up as well. The voice mail isn't on line yet, but I'm dreading it. Is this common on the outskirts of a town (where I am). Could it be a lack of voltage or impedance or something like that at the end-of-the- line where I am? Thanks in advance! Oh, PS: My request for ISDN data services in Los Angeles LATA 5 yielded 3 responses, all "me too" flavoured. Oh well, technology marches on, but slowly :-) cambler@zeus.calpoly.edu | Christopher J. Ambler chris@toys.fubarsys.com | Author, FSUUCP 1.32 ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #453 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa11599; 7 Jul 93 18:56 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA17584 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Wed, 7 Jul 1993 16:27:25 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA07046 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Wed, 7 Jul 1993 16:26:48 -0500 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 16:26:48 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307072126.AA07046@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@delta.eecs.nwu.edu Subject: Telepassport International Calling Service Telepassport is now available and open for business! Hereinafter in this message I shall refer to it as TP. TP is an international long distance carrier. The idea behind TP is to route international calls all over the world via the United States, allowing callers to access state of the art telecommunications technology, the best line clarity, and the lowest rates in the world. TP capitalizes on the rate differential between the USA and other countries using a technique known as 're-origination'. The switch takes calls from customers anywhere in the world, reverses the call so it is billed as USA originated, and provides USA dialtone so the customer can complete the connection to any other country in the world. The cost savings to the customer could be up to fifty percent, depending on a few factors. For example, a five minute call from Italy to the USA handled and billed by the PTT would cost $11.40. Using TP, the cost for the same call would be $6.84. A five minute call from Brazil to the United Kingdom costs $18.95 through the Brazilian PTT, but only $10.84 using TP. Legal Status: ============= TP is available in virtually every country in the world as a Value Added Service. Although in some countries the PTT may not welcome the compe- tition, they are bound by international telecommunication treaties to allow us to operate. In addition, TP is required to compensate the PTTs as part of an international settlements process for carrying our calls in and out of their country. Where telecommunications monopolies are in effect, they specifically prohibit competition by disallowing the installation or use of facilities in the territory controlled by the monopoly. TP requires no installation or equipment of any kind in various countries except the telephone instrument itself. It is an American service and its customers are billed in the United States, with the US Dollar the method of payment. In the United States, AT&T has raised objections when certain companies it suspected were marketing a callback system filed for FCC authorization to carry international traffic. In their objections they complained that callback systems were illegally using carriers' facilities to signal for the callback and thereby avoiding payment of the tariffed rates for useage. In fact, the tariffs are specifically set not to charge for uncompleted calls so there is no avoidance of payment. AT&T's own answering machine product, 'The Toll Saver' is designed not to answer a call if there are no messages on the machine, thus signalling such to the caller without him incurring a charge. There are several other examples of security systems, energy devices, etc which use the telephone for signalling without payment. AT&T was requested to respond as to their intentions regards their own products and the technology used by non-telecom related services (security devices, etc) and 'toll avoidance'. AT&T was asked if their stance on this related only to organizations in direct competition with that company. How to Use Telepassport: ======================== An account is required of all users. TP cannot accept 'casual users' who do not have a specific business relationship with us. This is because of the nature of how the TP switch operates. Accounts are *very easy* to set up, but accounts *are* required, since your telephone number must be authorized to use the service. You need not call from an authorized phone however; if you do so, your call will proceed without further identification or security checks unless you ask us to incorporate this feature. If you (as a subscriber) call from an unauthorized telephone, then an account number and PIN must be entered as part of the session. Subscribers who are outside the USA: Three methods can be used to access Telepassport - (A) Automatic Callback when calling from an authorized telephone: 1. Dial your TP access number in the USA (1-212-xxx-xxxx). 2. Let the phone ring once or twice (preferably twice to insure we caught the signal), then hangup. - You will receive a call within 10-20 seconds - 3. When our call arrives, pick up your receiver, then you will hear, depending on your instructions one of these messages: "Telepassport" OR "This call is for , please transfer this call to ; if you are press 1 on the keypad." OR "Please transfer this call to extension xxx, if this is extension xxx please press 1 on the keypad." One of these messages (depending on how you have it set up) will play in any of several languages, depending again on the language you have chosen for the computer to use. 4. Press '1' at any time during the message. - if you are not at your authorized telephone, or if you instructed us to make the PIN mandatory on all calls you will then hear, (in language of choice) "please enter your PIN now." 5. If PIN required, enter it at this time. - USA dial tone will be extended to you - 6. Dial the number you wish to reach followed by # (country code + city code + number + #) ... for example, to Japan 81 44 954 3951# or to the USA 1 818 956 6936#. - you will hear a TP tone indicating your call is being processed. - If you get a busy signal, or the called party does not answer or you get an error message, just press * to get dial tone and make another call if you wish, or hang up. Also when the called party hangs up you may stay on the line and make another call if desired. If you make an error in dialing, just press *, wait for dial tone and dial your call again. If you get an answering machine or some other device answering the call, maintain silence for five to ten seconds after speaking your message and you will hear dial tone. (B) Immediate Callback (For use when not at your authorized telephone): 1. Dial the TP toll-free number from your country, or if toll-free is not available in your country dial the direct number in New York (1-212-xxx-xxxx). Please note if toll-free access to us is not available in your country then you will have to pay PTT charges for this call, however once you connect with us, *immediatly* instruct the computer to make a callback to you. This will limit your exposure to PTT charges to a minute or lerss. 2. After dialing our toll-free number from your country (or our direct New York number) you will hear the computer respond, "Telepassport, please enter your account number and PIN". Enter these numbers and you will hear a spurt of tone followed by dial tone. 3. Either dial your call to completion as per 'automatic callback' -or- preferably to keep your costs down access the Administrative Functions Menu to arrange an immediate callback. (C) If you choose to continue the call, we refer to this method as 'Direct Access'; if you choose to have us call you back, we refer to it as 'Immediate Callback'. You use 'Immediate Callback' or 'Direct Access' when you are NOT at an authorized telephone number. When you are at an authorized tele- phone number you merely call the number we give you, let it ring a couple times and hang up to await our callback. If you are calling from within the USA: ======================================= 1. Dial the number we assign you to call or the direct access number. If you are calling from an authorized TP telephone, you will hear 'Telepassport' followed a second or two later by dialtone. If not, you will hear 'Telepassport, please enter your account number and your PIN'. After entering this you will hear dialtone. Regardless of where you are calling from, or how you access TP (that is, by Direct Access or Automatic Callback) when you reach the dialtone you can either place your call or access administrative functions. To reach administrative functions, press 1# when you get dialtone. You will hear: "Press 1 to change your callback number, 2 to access your account balance, 3 to change your callback message, 4 to change your callback message language, 5 for an immediate callback." Changing your callback number: Press 1. "Please enter your new callback number." You enter the country code, city code (area code), number, and #. You will be asked to re-enter it for confirmation. If you do it the same way, fine, if not the computer will keep asking until you get it the same way twice in a row. We will then use this as the number to reach you for Automatic Callbacks until you change it. To change it back to your authorized telephone number as per our records, when you are asked to 'enter new callback number' just press #. The computer will respond, 'your new callback number is '. Press 2 to hear what credit balance remains in your account. Press 3 to change the way we speak when we call you back. If the short form 'Telepassport' is sufficient, you can indicate that. If you are in a hotel or at a place where many people answer the phone or we need to be transferred to an extension or room number, you can tell us with choices 1, 2 or 3 how to ask for you: "This call is for , call to the phone". "Please transfer this call to extension xxx" If you tell the computer to ask for you at an extension number, the computer will ask you to enter the extension number we are to ask for, followed by #. Press 4 to change the language we use when making callbacks to you. Press 1 for English; 2 for Spanish; 3 for Mandarin; 4 for Japanese; 5 for German; 6 for French; 7 for Italian; 8 for Portugese; 0 to make additional choices. Your callback message ('connect this call to ' or 'connect this call to ') will remain in the language chosen until you change it. This is helpful when dealing with telephone operators or hotel clerks, etc in other countries. Press 5 to get an immediate callback from us. The computer will ask you to enter the number you want us to call you at. This will be the country code, city code and number, followed by #. After entering this, hangup. We will call you back in 10-20 seconds, at which time you would proceed as with Automatic Callback. To exit administrative functions menu at any time, press *. Other features of Telepassport: ============================== Voicemail: callers leave you messages. You retrieve later with your PIN. Message forwarding: If called party is not available, you can record a message. We will try to deliver it every two hours for four days. Phone Home: You pay for the calls of relatives and customers, but only on calls they make to you. The best way to describe this is that it is very similiar to the AT&T Easy Reach 700 service. Toll Free service from USA to other countries: If your country does not offer toll free service (or offers it, but not from international points) then TP will offer this to your customers in the USA. They will dial an 800 number here, and get cut through to your international number (as shown on our records, or to whatever is your 'callback number' at the time). We also offer speed dialing and restricted calling using four digit codes. You can set it up so that persons calling you dial an 800 number in the USA, then are permitted only to enter a four digit code to reach you. Or you can allow employees to make calls to certain places while not making calls to other places, etc. Conference calls: dial multiple numbers linking participants from all over the world. Fax broadcast: send your fax to TP, and we forward to your distribution list. Above special services and rates discussed on request. Various special applications can be designed. Billing arrangements: All payments are made either by credit card or electronic funds transfer from your bank to ours. You will receive a very detailed monthly accounting. If you prefer, you may establish a trust fund with the TP business office from which charges will be paid. If you wish, a 'credit limit' will be set for monthly usage to assist you in detecting abuse when usage for the month reaches the agrreed-upon limit. TP does *not* offer open account billing at this time. ---------- RATES FOR CALLS ------------ This is probably the most important part to many of you. A full schedule of rates would be impractical to list here; there are simply too many countries which can call other countries, etc ... so this sample listing will provide rates *to and from the USA* from other countries, with some comments about calls from other countries to third countries via the USA. I'll be glad to quote rates between countries on request; just ask for your specific application. Our rates are composed of three parts. Calls to the USA, and certain other countries where we have agreements in place will only see ONE OR TWO of these components. Calls to third countries via the USA will see either TWO OR THREE of these components. The components are: ACCESS CHARGE (a per session charge regardless of how long you are connected through us) INITIAL CHARGE (a per call charge which applies on many inter- country calls via our switch) PER MINUTE CHARGE (the cost of the call for each minute you are connected, speaking with someone). On calls to the USA from other countries, usually the only charge will be the PER MINUTE charge. From some points, the ACCESS charge will also apply. The INITIAL CHARGE will only apply when calling between other countries using the USA as the transit routing. If we had *our way*, only the PER MINUTE rates would apply ... but we must make payments to the PTTs and AT&T for services they render to us, thus the ACCESS CHARGE and INITIAL CHARGE in some instances. Here are some sample rates to the USA from elsewhere. Where the rates are shown as amount/amount/amount this means standard/discount/economy rates, as per the custom in the country where the call originates. Time of day for the call is always by local time in the country where the call originates. Remember, the ACCESS CHARGE is made one time per session; you can make several calls in succession by pressing the * key between calls. Each callback by us (or direct access to us) counts as one session, or one ACCESS CHARGE. From (to USA) Access Charge Per Minute ============== ============= ========== Venezuela 51 cents .91/.81/.81 Italy 36 cents $1.09/1.09/.80 Lebanon 86 cents $2.73/2.73/2.73 Mexico None .95/.95/.95 plus .16 INITAL CHARGE per call. Canada None .39/.39/.39 China $2.12 $1.29/1.29/1.29 Greece 52 cents .91/.91/.91 plus .59 INITIAL CHARGE per call. Korea Dem. Rep. $1.15 $1.20/1.20/1.20 Japan None .98/.85/.79 Colombia 68 cents $1.05/.94/.94 Taiwan 95 cents $1.04/.99/.99 Argentina 57 cents $1.39/1.19/1.19 CIS (USSR) 91 cents $1.81/1.81/1.81 Brazil 60 cents $1.50/1.30/1.30 Dominican Republic 23 cents .85/.85/.85 France None .89/.67/.60 Germany 28 cents .99/.99/.99 Haiti 31 cents $1.11/1.11/1.11 Israel 31 cents $1.03/.83/.80 United Kingdom None !! Fifty cents per minute always !! These are just a few examples ... Now country to country via the USA gets tricky -- you can check out what your local PTT charges for calls, knock off 30-40 percent in almost every case, but add on an INITIAL CHARGE typically in the range of 50 cents to a dollar. The charge for the first minute therefore will be INITIAL CHARGE plus MINUTE. Now on calls from USA subscribers outbound: TO: (from a USA origin) First 30 secs. Addl. 6 secs. ======================== ================ =============== Argentina 1.18/1.02/.94 .07/.06/.05 Australia 1.00/1.00/1.00 .06/.06/.06 Germany .69/.67/.63 .06/.06/.05 Israel 1.25/1.25/1.25 .07/.07/.07 Netherlands .59/.43/.43 .06/.06/.06 Hong Kong 1.54/1.27/1.30 .07/.06/.06 Japan .34/.32/.30 .07/.06/.06 United Kingdom 48 cents per minute, all hours! France 58 cents per minute, all hours! Calls to Australia as an example would cost $1.30 for the first minute and 60 cents per minute thereafter. Calls to Japan as an example would cost between 60-70 per minute depending on the time of day. Calls to Hong Kong would cost 60-70 cents per minute after the first minute which is much more expensive. The same is the case in calls to Israel. I am not privy to all the details as to why calls to some places have higher first minutes; I do know that TP had to negotiate not only with AT&T on outbound calls from the USA but also with various PTTs around the world to meet their requirements and pay them certain fees, etc. Also, I should point out that USA subscribers calling outbound will pay an additional 9 cents per minute if they access TP via our 800 number for that purpose. If they dial direct to our New York number, they pay the rates shown above. It almost makes better sense (and we recommend) for all callers to whenever possible use our automatic callback from their authorized phone(s) or immediate callback to avoid the extra toll charges while they are calling our switch. To sign up for Telepassport service, send me email. In the course of our discussion and sign up process, be prepared to supply the VISA/MC or AMEX number you wish to have charges applied to periodically or the bank account you wish to have debited for charges. (But we will be sending you a detailed monthly analysis and billing in any event.) Other fine print and 'gotcha!' things you should know about: Anyone is free to sign up. Businesses will be the primary users of Telepassport but individuals making at least $25 per month in international calls are also invited to join the service. In fact, we have a $25 per month minimum fee; you will be charged that minimum fee unless your usage exceeds that amount. Another 'gotcha!' -- We have both 'system time' and 'connect time'. System time is the time between when you answer our callback and the party you are calling answers the phone. Connect time is the time you are actually speaking with your party. When your caller disconnects (but you stay on the line to make another call) then the 'system time' clock begins running again. As long as your 'system time' each month is not more than ten percent of the total session time (system plus connect) we waive the charges for system time. If your system time is excessive (i.e. in excess of ten percent of the total amount of time you spend connected to us), then system time is charged at the rate of a call to the United States. There is no system time if the call is on your nickle, i.e. you dial our direct access number and continue straight through. System time is only the time when *we call you back*. And as stated above, provided this is not excessive, we waive that charge. How can you keep system time from being excessive? For one thing, a call of ten minutes would in effect give you a free minute of system time. When we call you back, be prepared to begin dialing immediatly. Answer our phone calls promptly if we need to have someone call you to the phone, as in a hotel. We offer speed dialing of your common numbers at no extra charge. Most international connections from the USA can be done in seconds if you dial rapidly and remember to put the # terminator on the end of the dialing string. If you were to spend let's say, two hours per month in actual talking time on international calls, that 120 minutes would give you 12 minutes of system time at no charge -- more than enough to dial your calls, wait for the ringing, change your administrative options, etc. For most users, this will never be a problem ... but I am required to tell you that if you call us and hang on the line doing nothing but wasting our time and money on the callback connection, we charge you for it. Almost anytime you make a call that lasts two or three minutes or longer your system time will be easily absorbed. And since it accumulates all month, several short calls and one or two longer ones will reach the same result: no system time charges. Remember the ratio is not more than ten percent of the time on call set ups, administrative options, etc. Welcome to Telepassport! I hope it will provide a low-cost solution to your international calling requirements both to and from the USA. For precise rates, please ask, and certainly on calls between countries where the USA is the switching point ask for rates. I could not begin to list the thousands of actual rates in this message. Patrick Townson ptownson@eecs.nwu.edu If you prefer: call 312-465-2700 or fax 312-743-0002. Or write: Telecom Digest Telepassport Program 2241 West Howard Street #208 Chicago, IL 60645   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa19894; 8 Jul 93 3:21 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA30662 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Thu, 8 Jul 1993 01:10:59 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA05982 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Thu, 8 Jul 1993 01:10:07 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 01:10:07 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307080610.AA05982@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #454 TELECOM Digest Thu, 8 Jul 93 01:09:40 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 454 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Kerberized Cellular Phones (Paul Robinson) Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year (Dan J. Declerck) Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year (Andrew Watts) Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year (Paul Wallich) Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year (Tom Olin) Re: Were You a Victim of 900 Abuse? (Mike King) Re: Coin Refund Required ... NOT! (Andy Sherman) Re: Coin Refund Required ... NOT! (David J. Greenberger) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 21:51:05 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Subject: Kerberized Cellular Phones From: Paul Robinson Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA Steve Forette suggested the possibility of using Kerberos Authenti- cation for Cellular Telephones as a means to reduce fraud. Kerberos is a means of authenticating access to something by means of a "ticket" or authentication code being generated on the fly each time a request is made. When a system uses Kerberos Authentication, the system is said to be Kerberized. "SF" refers to Steve Forrette; "Moderator" refers to Pat Towson. The following was my response; I'd appreciate comments: SF>> Maybe I'm armchair quarterbacking, but it seems to me Kerberos should SF>> be good for making cell phone accounting really secure. I think I already settled this several months ago in asking questions on both the TELECOM Digest and Info-Vax list (because a number of VAX systems are using Kerberos). Kerberos can't be used on mobile telephony because there is no trust at *all* that can be imposed on the system. A user who calls into a system has *something* that can be trusted, either the terminal location (for a local terminal) or their "dotted quad" internet address they are at under TCP/IP, or the dial-in telephone number, in addition to their password. Well, with the ESN or Password given in the clear, there is *nothing* that is secure in mobile telephony. But I could be wrong with respect to telecomputing. Someone want to tackle this? Is any place using Kerberos for security where anyone can call in on a dial up number without any other considerations, e.g. they could be at home or on a dial-up computer? I suspect that Kerberos won't work without *something* it can trust. Could Kerberos be used to create Kerberized Cellular Telephones or Kerberized Mobile Computing? In short, Cellular phones can't be Kerberized because any mobile user could be spoofed by any other, there is *nothing* that can be trusted on the system. Therefore you need something that either (1) authenticates the user based on something that can't be faked (2) authenticates the user in such a manner that failure to authenticate can be used to deny service. SF> It would also be a good way to make all current cellphones obsolete. SF> ... Keep in mind that any change in the authentication protocol would SF> necessitate making current phones unusable ... phreaks would always SF> imitate an 'old' phone... a carrier would have to either require all SF> subscribers to replace their phones... or buy a new phone for every SF> subscriber. SF> And then what would they do with roamers? > [Moderator's Note: But you know something Steve? I'll bet the cellular > industry could cut a deal with two or three (or how many ever) of the > major cellphone manufacturers to make new phones at a deeply discounted > rate, then *give them away* to existing customers for less than the > current losses due to fraud. The cell companies would have to bite the > bullet and do it, but once it was over with, so would be the problem > for the most part. Before this could happen, a major antitrust exemption would have to be issued to every wireline and cellular company in the United States, and every cellular telephone manufacturer, in order to allow them to do this. The three major broadcast networks and Fox had to get this in order to allow them to set up standards for the violence in television shows. Otherwise, as competitors it's a criminal offense for the representatives at these companies to meet together to make joint agreements. Doubly so in view of the ex-Bell system companies being under the restrictions of Judge Greene. Perhaps a cheaper way is to have some sort of security device retrofitted onto cellular phones that generates an off-band security code. Have it made by one company in the ten-million quantity range. It simply generates an extra identification code tacked onto the beginning or end of the ESN, in the manner and method I state below, e.g. block of twenty different numbers issued in rotation each time a call is placed. If both don't match the call won't be permitted *and* all twenty codes become invalid. In the multi-million copy range the device can be made for perhaps $10 or so. If it's that cheap, it can be made such that if it gets broken, you get a replacement. Now, you'd also have to fix it so the device becomes inoperative if opened, or maybe not since each one would have a different serial number. Tie a serial number group (authcode) to someone's ESN and you have essentially the same security as an ATM card user, since he must have a valid ESN AND a matching authcode security box both registered with the carrier. To spoof any user, the thief would have to have caught all twenty or so authcodes of the same user, then remember which one was the last one used and use the next one in sequence. Also, they'd have to increment to the next code, meaning that they would have to make 19 calls in order to spoof the phone owner so that his phone isn't invalidated. And to defeat that capability, use a four digit number indicating the call number; if the two don't match, the carrier knows the user's phone has been compromised. So it would require someone monitoring and storing thousands of codes in order to spoof one code, plus needing some means to not let the phone owner know his phone has been compromised. If each phone (or authentication box) has 20 random ESNs/authcodes, there is no way to know which ones are related to which phone unless you took it apart. This would solve the problem of everything except someone fraudulently obtaining a phone and selling the codes to someone. But then, only one person at a time could use it since a second code coming in at the same time would then deny access to *all* codes of that phone until authorized. As would a call at the same time as someone else using it. The other thing to do is to reset the national database of authorized and hot-listed numbers and get federal laws in place to allow data sharing. Adding credit limits would help as well. But the answer will have to be a change in authentication. And here are some suggestions that will probably have to be done. 1. A sequence challenge in which a phone has several authentication codes, and each time a call is placed, the next code in sequence is sent; memory is cheap, so a phone could easily have twenty or thirty ESNs. The advantage here is that if the ESN is not the one that is next in order, the phone can be permanently denied service (see 2). 2. When an ESN comes in that isn't recognized, it calls back to the issuing carrier and asks if it's valid. If the ESN is the next in the sequence based on the last ESN accepted, the call is approved, otherwise the questioning carrier can be told to deny service. This would require that all roaming calls be verified with the originating carrier. As the usual delay is about one second or so, this should not be a problem. 3. Allow any phone to call 911 or customer service, even if it's invalid roaming or hotlisted. It makes no sense to refuse a phone access to 911 or to call the cellular carrier to complain that their phone doesn't work. Paul Robinson - TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM ------------------------------ From: declrckd@rtsg.mot.com (Dan J. Declerck) Subject: Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1993 15:40:46 GMT In article attsbbs!laurence.chiu@ PacBell.COM (Laurence Chiu) writes: >> In article , TELECOM Moderator > eecs.nwu.edu> writes: >>> In a one year period from 1991 through 1992, losses from cellular >>> phone fraud tripled from $100 million to $300 million nationwide >>> according to the Washington DC based Cellular Telecommunications >>> Industry Association. >> I have two comments. >> Whoever designed the AMPS "security" system was an idiot. It was well >> known in the telephone industry at least as far back as 1978 (see the >> Bell System Technical Journal describing the Unix password system) >> that you don't broadcast passwords in the clear. That should be >> obvious to anyone, even if you aren't expert in security systems. >> The other thing is, I don't understand how roamer fraud could be a >> problem in LA, since the LA carriers don't allow inward roaming >> without a pre-arranged billing arrangement (usually via credit card). >> Can someone explain this? >> [Moderator's Note: Well, they don't *any longer*. Fraud problems, >> maybe? They were not always that way, where they? PAT] > As a new user of cellular communications, I am concerned about this > hole in security (though I don't live in LA thank goodness). Does > anybody know if the ESN is transmitted in the clear using either > digital AMPS or GSM? This might be a longer term solution to the > problem. > Using current technology, would it be possible for the Cellular > companies to put safeguards in their system which would deactivate a > cellular phone once a monthly bill got beyond a set amount for an > account. If a user really was using more a particular month then he > could call it, present some identification code and have the limit > raised that month. Ah, just another reason for the U.S. to finally adopt a new digital cellular standard!! Digital AMPS (TDMA AMPS) does a secondary authentication once the digital voice channel has been established. It cannot enhance the old authentication of the analog stuff, due to compatability issues. The secondary authentication uses a shared secret data scheme, similar to GSM, I believe. Note that TDMA AMPS still does not have a fully digital control channel yet. DS-CDMA proposed by Qualcomm, and provisionally accepted by the TIA as PN-3118, uses a shared secret data scheme and has a fully digital control channel. So, regardless of the new digital standard, the fraud problem will be abated. I beleive more than 15% of a provider's cost goes toward fraud. Dan DeClerck EMAIL: declrckd@rtsg.mot.com Motorola Cellular APD Phone: (708) 632-4596 ------------------------------ From: andreww@defiance.vut.edu.au (Andrew Watts) Subject: Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year Organization: Victoria University of Technology Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 02:12:37 GMT Fred Morris (m3047@halcyon.halcyon.com) wrote: > Judges *make* law. It's the law. Legislation is law. And it's made by politicians. Judges interpret the law as they see it, and set legal precidents. They don't make law. Just my two cents worth. Andrew Watts | andrew%consent@uts.edu.au | andreww@defiance.vut.edu.au [Moderator's Note: Well, there have been serious social problems in the USA in the past few decades because of what has been termed by many an 'activist judiciary'. PAT] ------------------------------ From: pw@panix.com (Paul Wallich) Subject: Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year Date: 7 Jul 1993 16:09:04 -0400 Organization: Trivializers R Us In mc/G=Brad/S=Hicks/OU=0205925@mhs. attmail.com writes: >> "Why bother," said Mr. Belitz. "The judge in this district >> said cellular fraud is not a violation of the law ..." > Of course, this presupposes that you HAVE some way to detect > fraudulent use of an ESN in time to catch the user, anyway. Which > they don't. > But honestly folks, this is yet another attempt to retrofit a legal > solution onto a technical problem. The real problem here is that > valid ESNs can be taken right off the airwaves and then used for > months, because the ESN is broadcast "in the clear" and there's no way > to tell a valid use from an invalid use. The cellular phone > manufacturers put in no security other than "security through > obscurity" -- which NEVER works. Hear, Hear. Note, BTW, that the decision in question said nothing about phone fraud and the law -- what it was talking about was the applicability of a (relatively) obscure provision of the law governing unauthorized access to computer systems. This is the one that said if you know more than ten passwords that you shouldn't, you've committed a federal crime -- it's been extended to telephone credit cards by the hack of considering the phone system to be one big computer (and making a call to be alteration of files because it generates billing records). What the judge said was that cellular fraud is a crime, but it's not _this_ _particular_ _crime_. (Personally, I think the "Access Devices" rule, which is the thing above, is a major crock because it makes a felon of anyone able to write the numbers from 0 to 9999 and append them to a phone number. But that's another story.) paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 15:00:25 EDT From: adiron!tro@uunet.UU.NET (Tom Olin) Subject: Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year m3047@halcyon.halcyon.com (Fred Morris) writes: > adiron!tro@uunet.UU.NET (Tom Olin) writes: >> Do you say this because you sincerely feel that the judge intention- >> ally made a decision contrary to the law, or are you merely displeased >> with the practical consequences of the decision? > Judges *make* law. It's the law. Well, then, I sit corrected. I know people say that the Congress doesn't do anything, but I thought it was still involved somehow in the legislative process. My mistake. >> And there is also the real possibility that a law may be >> interpreted differently by different people. > What's the point? The point is that just because two people disagree doesn't mean that either one is an idiot or a criminal. Of course, either one or both *could* be, but not necessarily. Tom Olin (tro@partech.com) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 18:03:57 EDT From: mking@fsd.com (Mike King) Subject: Re: Were You a Victim of 900 Abuse? In TELECOM Digest, V13, #443, Jim.Rees@umich.edu (Jim Rees) wrote: > I always assumed that the sex lines went through an ACD and out to > POTS lines in suburban housewive's homes, probably with distinctive > ringing to inform them of the nature of the call. They don't really > have a bunch of women hanging around a boiler room, do they? > Of course, getting the POTS translation out of the ACD would be nearly > impossible ... and Pat replied: > [Moderator's Note: 'They' have it both ways -- either way. A bunch of > people working out of a phone room, or sometimes calls transferred to > people at their home, etc. But if the call was transferred to someone > at home, even with distinctive ringing, finding out that number would > cause havoc for the IP, wouldn't it? PAT] A couple of months ago, {The Washington Post} had an article by a lady who took a job working for a phone-sex service. She described how she had the choice of working in the boiler room or working at home. She opted for the latter. Each day when she was ready to work, she had to call the service's switch and enter her ID and password. This validated her AND logged her time for pay purposes. She would then wait on the line, and the switch would three-way callers to her. When the caller was finished, he would be disconnected, and the lady would then wait for the next caller to be connected. When her 'shift' ended, she would hang up. She could also hang up to disconnect an abusive caller; she simply called back to continue her shift. Mike King | +1 301-428-5384 | I don't speak for my Software Sourcerer | mking@fsd.com or | employer. My employer Fairchild Space | 73710.1430@compuserve.com | doesn't speak for me. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 12:20:28 EDT Subject: Re: Coin Refund Required ... NOT! Organization: Salomon Inc, Rutherford NJ From: andys@internet.sbi.com (Andy Sherman) On 3 Jul 93 06:00:25 GMT, hhallika@tuba.calpoly.edu (Harold Hallikainen) said: > So, any c.d.t. readers in the COCOT biz? I've read very little > about it. Some of the technology would be interesting to hear about, > as well as the business itself. To which Pat replied: > [Moderator's Note: A couple years ago when we had this dicussion and > terms like 'bottom-feeders' were in all the messages, we did have one > regular reader who operated a service bureau for COCOT and AOS type > calls. I wonder if he is still out there. He wrote to us several > times to explain his position and business practices. PAT] That was Jim Allard, who showed his grace and sense of humor by adding "The Bottom Feeder" to his .signature. Jim always claimed to be running an honest AOS that give good prices, value, and dealt fairly with consumers. He also claimed that it was possible to make money with such a business ... until his AOS went belly up. Some will probably cry that obviously something bad that Mother, her seven children, and her two distant cousins (MCI and SPRINT) did put this company out of business. I suspect that the nature of the business is such that it is nearly impossible to run one both honestly and at a profit. Consider how Joe's Storm Door and AOS Company gets customers. They pay huge commissions to the owners of the places that their payphones or AOS services cover, and then charge the differential (and more) to the ultimate consumer in the form of outrageous call prices. If you play fair, and allow consumers to dial around your service, then you either get low call volume, or you have to offer rates that are competitive with the big three. Either way, the margins are attacked on both ends, what with those big commissions, and the capital required to set yourself up at the fringes of the phone business. *MY* opinions, of course ... Andy Sherman Salomon Inc - Unix Systems Support - Rutherford, NJ (201) 896-7018 - andys@sbi.com or asherman@sbi.com ------------------------------ From: d.greenberger@cornell.edu (David J. Greenberger) Subject: Re: Coin Refund Required ... NOT! Reply-To: d.greenberger@cornell.edu Organization: Young Israel of Cornell Date: 7 Jul 93 22:52:02 GMT hhallika@tuba.calpoly.edu (Harold Hallikainen) writes: > We hear a lot of terrible things about COCOTs. I also > generally avoid them, since they generally don't do what I want to do. > Some haven't let me use 950 to access my long distance carrier. > Others disable the DTMF pad when the call goes through so I can't pick > up messages off my answering machine. But, there MUST be some good > COCOTs out there! Is it not possible to have a privately owned pay > phone that works well? It does make sense to me that these phones be I'm sure some COCOTs (hey, I learned a new term from the TELECOM Digest today!) are quite decent, and they do have a purpose. New York Telephone recently removed the payphone from my organization, leaving a gaping hole in the wall (it wasn't getting them any money, probably because a non-payphone is semi-publicly available nearby for local calls, so the only use the payphone got was for long-distance, usually calling card or collect, calls). It might make sense to get it filled with a COCOT. However, I'm not plunking *my* quarter into the slot to test it. David J. Greenberger (212) 595-2901 d.greenberger@cornell.edu ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #454 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa21242; 8 Jul 93 4:46 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA31219 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Thu, 8 Jul 1993 02:22:05 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA00386 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Thu, 8 Jul 1993 02:21:03 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 02:21:03 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307080721.AA00386@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #455 TELECOM Digest Thu, 8 Jul 93 02:21:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 455 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: Dialing "1" First (David J. Greenberger) Re: Dialing "1" First (Hans Mulder) Re: Dialing "1" First (Dave Niebuhr) Re: Dialing "1" First (Mike King) Re: Is AT&T no Longer Asking For Caller Name on Collect Call (Mitch Wagner) Re: Is AT&T no Longer Asking For Caller Name on Collect Call (Andy Sherman) Re: Answering Machine Bypass Code Information Wanted (Steven King) Re: Answering Machine Bypass Code Information Wanted (Kenneth R. Crudup) Re: Nine Volt Phone Operation (was Re: Decline ...) (Jack Decker) Re: Caller ID via 800 Number (David G. Lewis) Re: Networked Notebooks (was Net Safari '93) (Jim Rees) Re: Only in Texas (Ed Casas) Re: Only in Texas (Brendan B. Boerner) ---------------------- TELECOM Digest is an e-journal devoted mostly -- but not exclusively -- to discussions on voice telephony. The Digest is a not-for-profit public service published frequently by Patrick Townson Associates. PTA markets a no-surcharge telephone calling card and a no monthly fee 800 service. In addition, we are resellers of AT&T's Software Defined Network. For a detailed discussion of our services, write and ask for the file 'products'. The Digest is delivered at no charge by email to qualified subscribers on any electronic mail service connected to the Internet. To join the mail- ing list, write and tell us how you qualify: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu. All article submissions MUST be sent to our email address: telecom@eecs. nwu.edu -- NOT as replies to comp.dcom.telecom. Back issues and numerous other telephone-related files of interest are available from the Telecom Archives, using anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu. Login anonymous, then 'cd telecom-archives'. At the present time, the Digest is also ported to Usenet at the request of many readers there, where it is known as 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Use of the Digest does not require the use of our products and services. The two are separate. All articles are the responsibility of the individual authors. Organi- zations listed, if any, are for identification purposes only. The Digest is compilation-copyrighted, 1993. **DO NOT** cross-post articles between the Digest and other Usenet or alt newsgroups. Do not compile mailing lists from the net-addresses appearing herein. Send tithes and love offerings to PO Box 1570, Chicago, IL 60690. :) Phone: 312-465-2700. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: d.greenberger@cornell.edu (David J. Greenberger) Subject: Re: Dialing "1" First Reply-To: d.greenberger@cornell.edu Organization: Young Israel of Cornell Date: 7 Jul 93 23:08:35 GMT dig@pro-cynosure.cts.com writes: > Basically, dialing 1 is like saying "I know this is a long distance > call and I understand that I will have to pay extra for this call." > It's a good idea, I think, and it makes it easy to teach kids how to > use the phone ("Never dial a number that starts with 1, because it > costs more.") Unfortunately, it's not that easy. Calls between area codes 212 and 718 are local, yet from 212-land I always dial 1-718-whatever or vice versa. It costs the same 10.6 cents it does to call within 212 (no "1" first). David J. Greenberger (212) 595-2901 d.greenberger@cornell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 20:44:38 +0200 From: hansm@info.win.tue.nl (Hans Mulder) Subject: Re: Dialing "1" First Brett Frankenberger writes: > By enforcing the correct "dial 1" rules, the telco switch is able to > make sure you know if the call is toll or not. If you just dial > XXX-XXX, that means (to the switch) that you don't think the call is > toll. If you are wrong, the switch will tell you by informing you > that you must dial 1 (and the reverse applies also). I fail to understand the reverse. I can see that people from a 1-means-toll area being annoyed when they have to pay toll for a call even if they didn't dial a leading 1. But the reverse? What's the point of telling callers to hang up and dial again, without the 1? Do people complain that they dialed a 1 and that they expect to pay toll. Would anybody complain if the meaning of the leading 1 were changed into "please, connect me to this number, even if it's toll"? Confused, Hans Mulder hansm@win.tue.nl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 09:08:52 EDT From: dwn@dwn.ccd.bnl.gov (Dave Niebuhr) Subject: Re: Dialing "1" First In TELECOM Digest V13 #449 goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau) writes: > Regarding the discussion of the few benighted areas where "1" is still > not allowed before area codes when dialing LD numbers ... > Does anyone have an exhaustive list of all the locations in the NANP > that have this restriction, and when they plan on changing over to > allow eleven-digit dialing? Are there any telcos that aren't on track > to handle NXX area codes when they arrive in 18 months? I tried using 1+ in the 516 area code and came up with the following (the number is one that I know to not be in service yet otherwise I would have substituted X's): 395-6701: Disconnected 1-395-6701: Cannot be completed as dialed 1-516-395-6701: Cannot be completed as dialed 10288-1-516-395-6701: Cannot be completed as dialed So, as I said in prior issues, 516 will not implement 1 plus dialing until forced to do so. Dave Niebuhr Internet: niebuhr@bnl.gov / Bitnet: niebuhr@bnl Brookhaven National Laboratory Upton, LI, NY 11973 (516)-282-3093 Senior Technical Specialist: Scientific Computer Facility ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 17:52:58 EDT From: mking@fsd.com (Mike King) Subject: Re: Dialing "1" First In TELECOM Digest, V13 #449, armand@comm.mot.com (Arman Dolikian) wrote: > HOWEVER, MY PET PEEVE is that, when I dial using the "fully specified" > string of digits, there is NO ambiguity, and therefore, the system > should not reject "extra" information. Here in Maryland (C&P, 301), a leading 1 is required for a toll call, but if it is included on a non-toll call, the call goes through without any whining from the switch. Dialing my office from home is a local call, but I can dial 1-301-428-5384 and the call goes through. The switches in Northern Virginia (C&P, 703) exhibit the same behavior. Local calls *from* 202 to 301 or 703 do get denied if preceded by a 1, however. Maybe the congresscritters NEED unnecessary regulation in their lives? Local calls to other area codes (e.g., 202, 703) do NOT require the leading 1; one simply dials the area code and the phone number. Toll calls in this area always require the area code, even if it's the same (there are many NXX exchanges in the area). > For example, if the called number is 1 (708) 555-1234: > (remember, the "1" is the country code for USA) Actually, it's more a coincidence that the country code for North America is the same as the code used in many areas to indicate 'area code follows' or toll call. Otherwise, you should be dialing 011-1-708-555-1234. > This is like having the Post Office REJECT my mail, if I put TOO MUCH > information on the letter, such as adding "USA" on a letter sent > inside the USA! Might not be a bad idea for letters to New Mexico. Mike King | +1 301-428-5384 | I don't speak for my Software Sourcerer | mking@fsd.com or | employer. My employer Fairchild Space | 73710.1430@compuserve.com | doesn't speak for me. [Moderator's Note: Awwwwg! Ask any New Mexico resident how often stupid telephone order takers claim they 'cannot ship outside the United States' when the person gives a NM address. A reader from there even wrote to me saying an AT&T service representative once told him he would have to 'contact the Mexican Telephone Company to see what long distance plans they had available ...' Gimme a break already! When I was in elementary school they taught geography. I don't know if they were still teaching it when the young'uns who work on inbound telephone marketing desks were in school or not, but some of them don't have the brains that God gave a goose. PAT] ------------------------------ From: wagner@utoday.com (Mitch Wagner) Subject: Re: Is AT&T no Longer Asking For Caller Name on a Collect Call? Organization: Open Systems Today Date: Wed, 07 Jul 93 17:43:06 GMT andys@internet.sbi.com (Andy Sherman) writes: < regarding the system for operators processing collect calls> > This system was not designed to piss off customers or any nefarious > stuff like that. After watching it in action, it was clear that this > system was designed to keep operators *VERY* busy. (Well, except for > the voice path games, which were designed to keep you from passing > messages for free). I notice that this system does not preclude the time-honored system, known to college students and kids at sleepaway camp everywhere, of using the name you give the operator as the means of sending a message. Thus when the operator asks your name, you respond, "I. M. Okay," or something like that ... > [Moderator's Note: Now what would happen if when the call supervised, > for a few seconds all operator positions were busy? That is, my phone > rings, I answer, John Doe is waiting to call me collect. He hears me > answer but his talking path is not open. Ideally at the instant of > supervision an operator should be brought on the line, no? What > happens if there is no operator available for five or ten seconds? Do > John and I sit and scream 'hello' at each other trying to make the > other one hear us, or do either I or John or both of us get any sort > of 'stand by for an operator' message? I would suppose as a courtesy > the complete talk path would open, and the two of us would converse > even for a very few seconds as a courtesy to us until an operator was > available to cut in on the line and complete the formalities? PAT] What if it connects to the operator first? That way, until the operaor is available, the call does not go through to the called party? Wouldn't that work? Is that the way it's done now? mitch w. [Moderator's Note: Not from what he said, no. He said the call progresses on its way and only when supervision is detected does an operator come back on the line to query for billing authority. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 15:48:01 EDT Subject: Re: Is AT&T no Longer Asking For Caller Name on a Collect Call? From: andys@internet.sbi.com (Andy Sherman) >>>>> On 3 Jul 93 17:48:23 GMT, Pat asked: > [Moderator's Note: Now what would happen if when the call supervised, > for a few seconds all operator positions were busy? That is, my phone > rings, I answer, John Doe is waiting to call me collect. He hears me > answer but his talking path is not open. Ideally at the instant of > supervision an operator should be brought on the line, no? What > happens if there is no operator available for five or ten seconds? Do > John and I sit and scream 'hello' at each other trying to make the > other one hear us, or do either I or John or both of us get any sort > of 'stand by for an operator' message? I would suppose as a courtesy > the complete talk path would open, and the two of us would converse > even for a very few seconds as a courtesy to us until an operator was > available to cut in on the line and complete the formalities? PAT] Since my training was large aimed at what things looked like from the OSPS operator's end, nobody talked about what happened if there were no operators. I am pretty sure that the system was engineered to make it unlikely; one switch controlled multiple operator services centers, and I'm pretty sure it could put the call on the first available position in any of them. I am all but certain that the system would *NOT* open a bidirectional voice path as a "courtesy" in the absence of an operator. You would hear John answering the phone, just as you heard the call progess leading up to supervision. I don't know what John would hear, but it certainly wouldn't be you. I strongly suspect that this type of event would be exceedingly rare. Andy Sherman Salomon Inc - Unix Systems Support - Rutherford, NJ (201) 896-7018 - andys@sbi.com or asherman@sbi.com [Moderator's Note: Actually, if AT&T did not do this as a courtesy (permit the call to complete pending an available operator) I would be surprised simply because in the past the customer was given the bene- fit of the doubt time after time when irregularities occurred. Even today, you can have a twenty second coversation with someone, then call the operator and claim you reached a wrong number and you will be credited. You can still claim you lost money in a payphone and have a refund coupon mailed back to you, admittedly 'payable to the order of the Telephone Company'. Long retired (since 1960) operator Myrtle Murphy here in Chicago told me once that AT&T used to have fire drills for the operators. When the fire drill was announced, everyone had to leave the building. Although no new calls would be answered, calls which were 'up on the board' stayed connected but in the process of vacating their position for the fire drill, all pending long distance tickets were 'stamped out' on the time clock. Better that disconnects during the interim got away with a minute or two of free time than disconnects during the interim get charged a minute or two too much. Seriously. PAT] ------------------------------ From: king@rtsg.mot.com (Steven King, Software Archaeologist) Subject: Re: Answering Machine Bypass Code Information Wanted Reply-To: king@rtsg.mot.com Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 15:09:37 GMT mitchell@cwis.unomaha.edu (Dennis Mitchell) publicly declared: > We need to find an answering machine that will prevent the phone from > ringing unless the caller enters a bypass code of some sort. Can > anyone offer a suggestion on where to look? Sounds like a job for Distinctive Ringing (or whatever your telco calls it). Get a switch that detects the ring patterns and routes different rings to different devices. Then, have the "normal" number route to the silent answering machine and the "immediate" number route to the noisy phone. Of course, you have to rely on people not using the "immediate" number capriciously ... Another answer is to get her a pager. Low-priority callers should use the regular phone number and talk to the machine, high-priority callers should page her. In either case, you can add to the machine's OGM "In case of an emergency, I can be contacted immediately at xxx-xxxx." Steven King -- Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 19:19:59 EDT From: kenny@mvuts.att.com Subject: Re: Answering Machine Bypass Code Information Wanted Organization: AT&T In article mitchell@cwis.unomaha.edu (Dennis Mitchell) writes: > We need to find an answering machine that will prevent the phone from > ringing unless the caller enters a bypass code of some sort. > Can anyone offer a suggestion on where to look? I really hate to start sounding like a Panasonic spokesman, but my KX-T2634 has a mode where you dial a (user-specified) code of up to three digits during OGM announcement, and it will produce a loud ringing tone regardless of volume control setting or ringer-volume setting. (Evidently, there's a lot of single young males in (like me) for whom having a lot of loud messages from other ... people while entertaining could be a problem, but don't want to miss important calls from business associates :-) Kenneth R. Crudup, ATT BL, 1600 Osgood St, N. Andover, MA 01845-1043 MV20-3T5B, +1 508 960 3219. kenny@mvuts.att.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 93 08:51:35 EDT From: ac388@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu (Jack Decker) Subject: Re: Nine Volt Phone Operation (was Re: Decline ...) In message , Jack.Winslade@axolotl. omahug.org (Jack Winslade) wrote: > Ah-ha. I just remembered the case of the almost-extinct AML-1 box. > This was a kludgy analog subscriber carrier used to multiplex a second > POTS line over an existing physical pair. The box at the subscriber > end was powered by a twelve volt nicad, trickle-charged from the > physical loop when it was on hook. The on-hook voltage across the > derived pair was between nine and twelve volts, and this dropped to > six volts or so when the second line went off hook. Touch tones > usually worked fine on these. I am currently served by a "Lenkurt 82A Station Carrier System" (according to the inscription on the box on the pole outside my home). It provides about 15 volts on-hook voltage, dropping to around six when off-hook. I think it is powered by a line from the C.O. (a couple of repairmen told me that the C.O. line is actually at over 200 volts; I'm not sure whether to believe that or not). > The AML had its problems, so most of them are in the scrap heap by > now. The Lenkurt units should be, in my opinion. Or at least, they should never be used in places where there are temperature extremes since they tend to get a bit flakey on cold days. They're also quite susceptable to Radio Frequency Interference ... if a CB Radio operator passes by while transmitting, the Lenkurt does a great job of injecting his chatter into my phone conversations (I just hope the guy next door doesn't take up CB Radio as a hobby!). I have been told that we should be off these units sometime this year, as they are supposed to install some sort of remote service unit in my area. I haven't seen it yet, but they did say it would probably be in by the end of the summer. As far as I'm concerned, it can happen none too soon! And BTW, the low on-hook voltage DID cause me problems when I first moved here. I had a "privacy adapter" circuit hooked up to my phone lines (except for the jack that the modem plugs into) so that if the modem was online, no one could knock it off by picking up a phone. This worked great when my mobile home was parked in Michigan Bell territory, but when I got to GTE land, none of my phones would work EXCEPT for my cordless phone that shares the modem jack. This caused me a few minutes of head-scratching until, armed with my trusty voltmeter, I figured out what the problem was ... the low on-hook line voltage wasn't sufficient to let current flow through the "privacy adapter" circuit. I had to remove it and take my chances with people picking up phones. :-( Jack Decker | Internet: ac388@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu ------------------------------ From: deej@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (david.g.lewis) Subject: Re: Caller ID via 800 Number Organization: AT&T Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 13:18:18 GMT In article rlatham@hpmail1.fwrdc.rtsg. mot.com (Russ Latham) writes: > With the recent posting of the 800 number that reads back the number > you are calling from [800-235-1414], I was wondering about the > following: > You have an 800 number with ANI, and let's say you live in an area > that doesn't have Caller-ID yet. If you were receiving harrassing > calls on your residential line, could you call-forward that > residential number to the 800 number, and then take the calls from > there and determine who was calling you? When a call is sent to an IXC, the ANI sent is the ANI of the station which would pay for the call if it were caller-sent-paid. In most cases, this is the station doing the forwarding, so the ANI that would be received by the 800 service would be the ANI of the forwarding line. > If this does work, would it also work in the case where a person did > Caller-ID blocking before they made the call? (Assuming Caller-ID > services were available in the residential area.) Moot question, because it wouldn't work ... > One final question. What is required for 800 ANI? Is it similar to > how current Caller-ID works, with the attachment of an additional box > to your phone line? As PAT stated in his note, for real-time ANI delivery, an 800 customer requires a direct connection to the 800 service provider (IXC in this case, as to my knowledge only IXCs provide real-time ANI delivery as an 800 service feature). David G Lewis AT&T Bell Laboratories david.g.lewis@att.com or !att!goofy!deej Switching & ISDN Implementation ------------------------------ From: Jim.Rees@umich.edu Subject: Re: Networked Notebooks (was Net Safari '93) Date: 7 Jul 1993 16:31:06 GMT Organization: University of Michigan CITI In article , roeber@vxcrna.cern.ch (Frederick Roeber) writes: > one of us even took AMTRAK across he country with a Little Work > prototype and the Outback portable cellular modem. That paper is old. We're using an Oki handheld phone now with various modems (Microcom, Qblazer) and it's a lot easier than lugging the Outback. The biggest problem I have now is not technical, it's administrative. Cellular roaming is still pretty difficult in most places. On my last cross-country trip (to San Diego on the Sunset) I was unable to roam anywhere west of Austin. ------------------------------ From: edc@ee.ubc.ca (Ed Casas) Subject: Re: Only in Texas Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 07:36:06 GMT In article cfs@mathcs.emory.edu (Charles Stephens) writes: > While we are on the subject, the Atlanta white pages lists as the last > resident: > ZZMMTHISJ Zibre 123 Elm St. SW Mreta --- 555-1212 I was aware of the war over the first listing in the phone book, but it's amusing to find that there's also a little skirmish to capture the end. In the 1992 Vancouver white pages the last two listings are: Zzyzzy W ..... Zzzyzyton P ...... Ed Casas (edc@ee.ubc.ca) ------------------------------ From: BBOERNER@novell.com (Brendan B. Boerner) Subject: Re: Only in Texas Organization: Novell, Inc. --Austin Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 15:26:34 GMT In article khx@se44.wg2.waii.com (K Husain) writes: > I saw a similar listing in the Austin, residence pages by a Heanauder > Titzhoff a few years ago. Don't see him here now. If I remember > correctly some guy did answer the phone and acknowldege the name when > my roommate had called. Found it quite by accident actually ... My officemate a few years ago pointed out a Dr. who I could swear advertised as doing vasectomies. I just checked and he's still there but there is no mention of what his specialty is. Anyway, his name is Chopp, Dr. Richard Thomas. Ouch! Brendan B. Boerner Phone: 512/346-8380 MHS: bboerner@novell Internet: bboerner@novell.com \ Please use either if replying or Brendan_Boerner@novell.com / by mail exterior to Novell. Disclaimer: My views are my own, not Novell's. They pay me to write code, not speak for them. ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #455 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa25442; 8 Jul 93 6:41 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA08004 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Thu, 8 Jul 1993 04:22:56 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA26235 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Thu, 8 Jul 1993 04:21:50 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 04:21:50 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307080921.AA26235@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #456 TELECOM Digest Thu, 8 Jul 93 04:21:30 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 456 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: New York Telephone Outage (David G. Lewis) Re: New York Telephone Outage (Steve Forrette) Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (Harold Hallikainen) Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (Lynne Gregg) Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (Nigel Allen) Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (Charles McGuinness) Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (Carl Moore) ---------------------- TELECOM Digest is an e-journal devoted mostly -- but not exclusively -- to discussions on voice telephony. The Digest is a not-for-profit public service published frequently by Patrick Townson Associates. PTA markets a no-surcharge telephone calling card and a no monthly fee 800 service. In addition, we are resellers of AT&T's Software Defined Network. For a detailed discussion of our services, write and ask for the file 'products'. The Digest is delivered at no charge by email to qualified subscribers on any electronic mail service connected to the Internet. To join the mail- ing list, write and tell us how you qualify: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu. All article submissions MUST be sent to our email address: telecom@eecs. nwu.edu -- NOT as replies to comp.dcom.telecom. Back issues and numerous other telephone-related files of interest are available from the Telecom Archives, using anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu. Login anonymous, then 'cd telecom-archives'. At the present time, the Digest is also ported to Usenet at the request of many readers there, where it is known as 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Use of the Digest does not require the use of our products and services. The two are separate. All articles are the responsibility of the individual authors. Organi- zations listed, if any, are for identification purposes only. The Digest is compilation-copyrighted, 1993. **DO NOT** cross-post articles between the Digest and other Usenet or alt newsgroups. Do not compile mailing lists from the net-addresses appearing herein. Send tithes and love offerings to PO Box 1570, Chicago, IL 60690. :) Phone: 312-465-2700. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deej@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (david.g.lewis) Subject: Re: New York Telephone Outage Organization: AT&T Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 18:46:08 GMT In article Christopher Zguris <0004854540@mcimail.com> writes: > Previously I wrote: >> With this cable break in place, what would happen if someone in 914 >> tried to call a business in 212 on an 800 number provided by someone >> other than NY Telephone (MCI, SPRINT, ETC.)? Likewise, what would >> happen in the same situation using one of the local 800 numbers NY >> Telephone tries to push on its customers? > And our much-better-informed-than-IO Moderator responded: >> [Moderator's Note: I suppose if the wires handling the call went >> through that cable the call would not go through. 800 numbers are >> nothing special ... they travel over a wire pair also. PAT] > My original question was not clear. The original message about the > outage said a trunk cable that connects 212 and 914 (and other area > codes) was severed/broken whatever. What I want to know is when > someone in 914 calls my MCI 800 number in 212, does their call leave > the 914 telco switching equipment, connect to MCI, then move through > MCI to the 212 switching equipment? If this is the case, then the > broken cable would be completly bypassed since it goes out from 914 > into MCI then back through MCI into 212. I guess my question is where > and when does a call leave the local carrier? Additionally, John Hawkinson jhawk@panix.com writes: > So my question is whether if I'd dialed 10333- first, instead of the > 10288- I dialed to get AT&T, would Sprint have successfully completed > the call. I would think so, since they should, like AT&T, have > separate circuitry between 212 and 914, but then again, the sprint 800 > number (which maps to the number I was calling) failed. So is that > number carried by NYT within the LATA or something? The answer to all of these questions is, as usual, "it depends". Let's start with the simplest case, 1+ dialed, IXC-carried, sent-paid calls. These are routed from the originating end office to the IXC in one of two ways: directly to the IXC from the end office, or via an access tandem. Typically (although not necessarily in all cases), AT&T uses access trunks directly connected to the end office, whereas other IXCs use access trunks connected to an access tandem. Therefore, in some cases, a LEC facility failure may cause MCI, Sprint, and other IXCs which get LATA access through an access tandem to be unable to handle interLATA calls, if the facility failure is between an end office an an access tandem, while AT&T may remain able to handle the same interLATA calls due to AT&T having direct facilities into the end office. In the more complicated case of 800, post-800-number-portability, a failure between the EO and AT will likely cause 800 service to all carriers to fail. This is because the query to the 800 database (SCP) is sent from an 800 SSP (Service Switching Point, if I recall correctly); and most SSPs are implemented on access tandems. Therefore, even though AT&T has the facilities to directly route calls from end offices to the AT&T network, the LEC must first route to the access tandem to perform the routing translation on the 800 number that determines the call gets sent to AT&T. If the EO/AT facilities are down, the call can't get to the SSP, the routing translation never happens, and the call fails. Given that the failure was characterized as a NYT cut between 914 and 212, and not as a trunk failure in 212 or in 914, I suspect that the failure was not between an EO and an AT; it was more likely between two NYT tandems (LATA tandems, I think they're called in the post- divestiture world). So 800 calls to all carriers could, presumably, exit the LEC network and get into the IXC network. So, given the above information, and the additional information (also from John Hawkinson jhawk@panix.com): > New York Telephone failed due to disruption > Sprint 800 number " " " " > AT&T successful the question remains of why did the Sprint 800 call fail, given that the call should have been able to exit the NYT network in Manhattan and re-enter in Weschester, and would an MCI (or, for that matter, AT&T or any other carrier) 800 number succeed or fail? My hypothesis is that, since intraLATA toll competition is not widely tariffed, widely known, or widely advertised, many IXCs do not build their own intraLATA facilities (or may not be permitted by the state PUCs to build their own intraLATA facilities). They therefore lease facilities from the LEC to handle the intraLATA traffic, such as 800, that they can handle. Not that they lease trunks on a minutes of use basis, but rather that they lease DS1s on a monthly basis, and build their own "interoffice" trunks and "access" trunks on those facilities. So an interLATA 800 call served by, say, Sprint may go from the caller's CO to the NYT access tandem at, say, the 140 West Street CO downtown (I'm just guessing that NYT has an access tandem there, but it seems a likely spot ...), where the switch queries the 800 SCP and determines that the call should indeed go to Sprint. NYT then routes the call to the Sprint POP downtown. Sprint sends the call to wherever their nearest switch is, which does its lookup and determines the call has to go to a 914 POTS number. The Sprint switch routes the call to a trunk group riding on a DS1 which goes back to 140 West Street, then cross-connects to a DS1 (built and operated by NYTel, leased to Sprint) which heads up to Westchester. Unfortunately, the cable has been cut, so the call fails (most likely at the Sprint switch, since the trunk group will be down). At this point I admit my analysis starts getting biased, both in terms of knowledge (I know more about how the AT&T network works) and claims (I would claim it works better ...). Sprint will, presumably, fail the call at that point, either because the leased NYTel facility is the only route to a Sprint switch serving Westchester (unlikely; Sprint has a sufficiently small number of switches that I suspect the switch that serves Manhattan is the same switch that serves Westchester), or because the leased NYTel facility is the only access facility leading to the Westchester NYTel access tandem from the Sprint switch serving Manhattan and Westchester. MCI, I suspect, is in a similar position; I have read in the trade press that Sprint has on the order of a dozen switches, and MCI on the order of a dozen and a half to two dozen, so I wouldn't be surprised to find that a single switch serves all of downstate NY for both of them. I'm sure people from MCI and Sprint will correct me if I'm wrong ... AT&T, on the other hand, would route the call from 140 West Street to our office at Broadway (33 Thomas Street, formally). The Broadway 4ESS switch would then attempt to route the call to the White Plains 4ESS switch, which would send it to the end office serving the called party. AT&T, I suspect, has its own facilities between BW and WHPL. Even if AT&T does lease facilities from NYTel for intraLATA traffic, those are unlikely to be the only facilities between the two switches; if one trunk group fails due to a facility failure, the BW 4E will hunt to a second facility. And even if all the facilities between the two switches fail, the call can be routed through a via switch in, say, Minneapolis. The call progresses to the WHPL 4E, egresses to the LEC end office serving the translated called party number, and completes successfully. I realize that I've painted a picture of the Sprint and MCI networks as being very "thin" in terms of alternate routes and backups. I do not know this to be the case, and it is strictly guesswork on my part based on the behavior reported with regard to the NYT facility failure -- the only reason I can see that an IXC would be unable to complete calls based on a LEC facility failure is if the only trunks available to complete the call are leased from the LEC and ride on the failed facility. If the picture I've painted of MCI and Sprint are inaccurate, I apologize in advance and I'm sure Sprint and MCI folks will rush in to correct my errors. Disclaimer: I doubt there's anything in here that Frank Ianna (AT&T Network Services Division Chief Quality Officer) hasn't been saying in prime time ads for a year now ... AT&T, Best in the Business (SM). David G Lewis AT&T Bell Laboratories david.g.lewis@att.com or !att!goofy!deej Switching & ISDN Implementation ------------------------------ From: stevef@wrq.com (Steve Forrette) Subject: Re: New York Telephone Outage Date: 7 Jul 1993 20:59:54 GMT Organization: Walker Richer & Quinn, Inc., Seattle, WA In article jhawk@panix.com (John Hawkinson) writes: > I believe I was a little ambiguous above. On this intra-lata call, > New York Telephone failed due to disruption > Sprint 800 number " " " " > AT&T successful > So my question is whether if I'd dialed 10333- first, instead of the > 10288- I dialed to get AT&T, would Sprint have successfully completed > the call. I would think so, since they should, like AT&T, have > separate circuitry between 212 and 914, but then again, the sprint 800 > number (which maps to the number I was calling) failed. So is that > number carried by NYT within the LATA or something? It depends on the carrier. Each IXC must have at least one Point of Presense (POP) in each LATA where it operates. Generally speaking, the access charges that they pay the local telco are not mileage sensitive, so they pay the same rate regardless of the distance between the originating or terminating end and their POP. So, many carriers see fit to only provide one POP per LATA. AT&T is known to have many more POPs per LATA than any of the other carriers -- in fact, they have started to complain to the powers that be that this uniform pricing is unfair. Take, for example, the case of city A and city B in the same LATA, 50 miles apart. Let's say IXC 1 has a POP in both A and B, while IXC 2 only has a POP in city B. When a call is placed from city A to city B over carrier 1, the call goes into 1's network in city A, travels over 1's facilities 50 miles, and goes back into the LEC's network in B. However, since carrier 2 only has a POP in B, the call travels over the LEC's network 50 miles from A to B, into 2's switch at B, and back out into the LEC network at the same POP! Both 1 and 2 are charged the same rate by the LEC for each part of the access charge, but 1 has carried the call 50 miles on its own network, and 2 hasn't done anything but switch it back out within the same switch. In states where intra-LATA competition is not allowed, this is not as big an issue, but still can be significant. Where intra-LATA IXC calls are allowed, it gets quite ridiculous. So, in your case above, what probably happened is Sprint's configuration of POPs in the LATA meant that Sprint-handled calls went over the same NYT trunks as a NYT-handled call does, but AT&T had POPs on both sides of the cable break so their traffic was unaffected. Steve Forrette, stevef@wrq.com ------------------------------ From: hhallika@tuba.calpoly.edu (Harold Hallikainen) Subject: Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1993 03:50:10 GMT In article BBOERNER@novell.com (Brendan B. Boerner) writes: > I think the Austin A-S has been trying to generate demand for such a > service by offering a service where you can call them up and get > additional information about a topic or whatnot in the paper by > punching in a four digit code next to the article or whatever you were > reading. Presumably if they are ever able to charge for this then > they will have hooked some percentage of current callers. > My questions are: Who controls the allocation of N11 numbers? And if > presumably the allocation is controlled by a regulatory body and not > the phone company, why in God's name would these guys even think of > allocating such a number so phone companies/newspapers can make a > buck? Tell them to get a phone number like the rest of us ... > 111 - can phone equipment distinquish between this and a L.D. call? > 211 - ? > 311 - ? > 411 - Directory assistance > 511 - Proposed information services > 611 - ? > 711 - ? > 811 - ? > 911 - Emergency services > [Moderator's Note: Don't forget 611 in your list above which is often > used for repair service. 811 is used in California to reach the phone > company business office. Of course, 011 is used as a prefix for inter- > national calls from the USA. A few comments ... on "Tell them to get a phone number like the rest of us", true, why are there ANY three digit phone numbers (other than, perhaps, 911). With all this talk about phone number shortages, they're giving up maybe 80,000 phone numbers per area code by having these three digit numbers. I recently got the PacBell bill stuffer on "1 means ten digits follow". It looks like that's really gonna free up the number space. People have complained about not knowing if a call is gonna cost them. Maybe the telco can give a little warning beep as the call is being handled. In any case, the "new system" seems to make a lot of sense, though I prefer my previously proposed method of using # or timeout on dialing. The system would then assume all unspecified leading digits were the same as the originating phone. That way, I could dial one digit to get my second line, or eleven digits (country code, area code, and seven digits). This method would allow those with pocket dialers to use the same number, no matter where they were. It would also remove the need for an international access code. If you dialed eleven or more digits, the first ones must be country codes. Back on the subject (511 infomation), the idea of putting a code at the end of the article to get more information sound nice! However, I sure wouldn't want more info in voice form. I'd go for ASCII or maybe fax. This could be handled with a standard phone number (no need for special three digit number). With DID, several numbers could be assigned with one number per subject, or some such thing. This could even be done with 900 or 976 numbers. By the way, what do telcos charge for 900 and 976 billing? I've seen very few legitimate IPs. Can only illegitimate ones afford the high rates? Finally, having "more information" available on line (again, ideally in ascii) is wonderful. A newspaper article on something the prez said should then refer you to full the full text on line. I've been having a wonderful time reading US Supreme Court decisions via ftp to ftp.cwru.edu in the /hermes/ascii directory. All public info should be available like this! Harold Hallikainen ap621@Cleveland.Freenet.edu Hallikainen & Friends, Inc. hhallika@oboe.calpoly.edu 141 Suburban Road, Bldg E4 phone 805 541 0200 fax 544 6715 San Luis Obispo, CA 93401-7590 telex 4932775 HFI UI ------------------------------ From: Lynne Gregg Subject: Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 Date: Wed, 07 Jul 93 15:02:00 PDT Pat, he's in SWB parts, but he really means Bell South. They're the guys in partnership with Cox Enterprises. Yep, the local telcos pretty much designate NXX codes, though I believe there are Bellcore guidelines. Regards, Lynne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 18:52:22 EDT From: ae446@freenet.carleton.ca (Nigel Allen) Subject: Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 Reply-To: ae446@freenet.carleton.ca In a previous article, BBOERNER@novell.com (Brendan B. Boerner) says: > I was reading in the {Austin Chronicle} the other day that Cox > Enterprises, Inc. (big paper chain, owns the {Austin American > Statesman}) and BellSouth have announced an "agreement in principle" > to form a joint company that will deliver information services to > consumers who dial 511 (for a small fee of course). > This means that there would be five, maybe six codes left over. Hmmm, > I wonder if we can think of a better use for 511. Someone (possibly the Canadian Association for the Deaf) has suggested that 511 and 711 should be reserved for voice-relay services (511 for TDD-to-voice, and 711 for voice-to-TDD, or vice versa). When the phone service in the Yukon and part of the Northwest Territories was provides by CN Telecommunications, a division of Canadian National Railways, 511 (or maybe 1-511) was the number for the CN telegraph office. CN's telephone and telex operations in the Yukon, the western Northwest Territories and northern British Columbia were later transferred to a new CN subsidiary, Northwestel Inc., which was eventually sold to BCE Inc., the parent company of Bell Canada. I suspect that 511 no longer works in Northwestel territory. I think the proposal to reserve 511 and 711 for voice-relay services would be particularly useful for hearing-impaired people who travel a lot, and for those who want to communicate by phone with hearing-impaired people but do not have their own TDD. Nigel Allen, Toronto, Ontario, Canada ae446@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ From: marks!charles@jyacc.jyacc.com (Charles McGuinness) Subject: Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 9:32:43 EDT You may be also interested to note that in New York's World Trade Center, the number 211 is used for emergencies -- at least in the public areas. It summons the Port Authority Police instead of the NYC Police, I assume. All the payphones have "Dial 211 for Emergencies" inscribed on them. [Moderator's Note: I found out some time back that some telcos have provisions in their tariff which allow a subscriber to intercept his own 911 calls if he has a 'working relationship' with the emergency authorities in his community to do so. For instance, a university phone system may be on centrex. Calls to either 911 or 9-911 can be intercepted and routed to the university police emergency line, provided the university and the city police department have reached an agreement for that. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 11:52:36 EDT From: Carl Moore Subject: Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 There was a blurb maybe two years ago in the Digest about some other information provider arranging for use of 511. In 1976, 511 was used (at least in Philadelphia) for Bicentennial information. And didn't New York City previously use 211 for refunds? Apparently no N11 is useable as an area code. All N10 (except for the apparently-unuseable 710) is in use or announced for future use as area codes. Some N00 is available if any more area codes are needed before 1995. ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #456 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa26861; 9 Jul 93 3:51 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA24711 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Fri, 9 Jul 1993 01:10:47 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA03625 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Fri, 9 Jul 1993 01:10:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 01:10:01 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307090610.AA03625@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #457 TELECOM Digest Fri, 9 Jul 93 01:10:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 457 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Proposal: alt.technology.smartcards (Lars Kalsen) Incident at a COCOT (Paul Robinson) White House Orders No Bid Telephone System (Paul Robinson) Lawyers and IP Owners (Dave Niebuhr) Teleglobe Canada to Close Down Globetex Text-to-Telex Service (Nigel Allen) Public Phone in Chemult, Oregon (Tony Harminc) Communication Departments Who Can't Communicate (Monty Solomon) Internet Articles in {The Nation} 12 July 1993 (David Leibold) How to Get Coin Phone? (Juergen Ziegler) US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (Ekkehard Rohwedder) Can I Use Telnet Over a Satellite Link? (Rogelio Montanana) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dalk@login.dkuug.dk (Lars Kalsen) Subject: Proposal: alt.technology.smartcards Followup-To: alt.config Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 18:50:44 GMT R E Q U E S T F O R D I S C U S S I O N ========================================= This is a Request For Discussion on creation of a newsgroup under the alt.technology hierachy. The discussion will be about creation of a newsgroup for discussions about SmartCards. Please repost this RFD to any newsgroup or listserver that you think might have readers interested in this subject to reach as broad an audience as possible. Proposed Group alt.technology.smartcards General discussions of Smartcards Status Unmoderated Charter Alt.technology.smartcards (unmoderated) will be a newsgroup which will provide a common forum for all persons interested in the use and development of SmartCards and the technologies behind. (1) To share ideas, information and specific experience about the use of SmartCards. (2) To discuss the design, programming and manufacturing of Smart- Cards. (3) To discuss the use of SmartCards in various businesses and pro- spectives for the future use. (4) To discuss economic issues concerning SmartCards. (5) To discuss security issues around the SmartCards. (6) To discuss standard issues concerning SmartCards. (7) To educate and inform others about the the strength, weaknesses and general use of SmartCards. (8) To share information and ideas about the future use of Smart- in all appropriate areas. Subgroups Subgroups will be added at a later date, as technology mature and new products emerge. Rationale A SmartCard is commonly understood to be a single chip integrated on card like a credit card. The chip can be a pure memory device, but it can also be a full microprocessor for more sophisticated use. The functions of the card is defined by programming the chip and it can of course be done in many ways. Therefore the wide spread of use. SmartCards are today used in many different areas and there will be many new possibilities in the future. A market survey from 1992 looks like this: Mobile Telephones 25 % Banking 25 % Pay Telephones 5 % Access Control 15 % Health Care 5 % Transportation 15 % Others 10 % SmartCards are often used for identification purposes which means that security is important issue when we are discussing these cards. The SmartCards are an emerging technology which will have great im- pact on a lot of different businesses in the future, therefore the newsgroup will be of great help to a lot of people. Summary In summary, the creation of a new newsgroup is needed for discus- sions about SmartCards which is an emerging technology. SmartCards are used and will in the future be used in a lot of dif- ferent businesses, therefore also a great need for the newsgroup. Discussions of the proposed group should properly be help on alt.config (Note that the Followup-To: line of this posting will direct any responses to alt.config.) Readers should feel free to re-post this article to other newsgroups whose readers might find it of interest, as long as the Followup- To: line remains directed to alt.config. Please E-mail me if you have any suggestions or oppinions about the group, or post them to alt.config. Lars Kalsen dalk@login.dkuug.dk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 12:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Subject: Incident at a COCOT From: Paul Robinson Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA I went with my relatives in Alexandria, VA to go to a theatre near their home at the Skyline Mall to see the movie "The Firm." (About the only telecom issue which could be raised by that film was whether the bugs in the house's phones were installed by the law firm or by the telephone installer at the lawyer's home who said "We do all the firm's installations"). The movie ended about 10:30 at night. We got separated and I was going to call someone, only to discover I had no money on me at all, not even a quarter; I'd spent it on cab fare over to the mall from the train station. No sweat, I'd use my calling cards. NOT! The pay telephones in the mall were all private, e.g. "Customer Owned Coin Operated Telephone Single Line Insert Money Excessive", or the infamous "COCOT SLIME". :) Sure, they'd take quarters for local calls, or yhou can use a credit card to make 0+ calls via some AOS whose name I had never heard of. Since I'm a regular reader of this Digest, this was a red flag warning to be aware of high rates. So I thought that I'd better check the rate on a call. For a local call over a credit card, that the local phone company would charge 65c, and AT&T would probably charge about $1 plus the usual time charge of 10c/minute, the AOS operator quoted me a rate of $4.00 for the first ONE MINUTE. We are talking about a distance from the mall to the house I needed to call of roughly four or five miles. At this rate, it would almost be cheaper to take a cab over there! If they were going to charge me the usual rate of say $1.10 or even $1.60, I would have grumbled and accepted that, but 400% of AT&T's rate was in my opinion excessive so I refused to go along. Well, trying to dial the call by using 10288-0-703-xxx-xxxx doesn't work, giving me a recording of "It is not necessary to dial a long-distance access code." Sure it isn't, if I wanted to pay them 6 times what the local telephone company would charge me, or 4 times AT&T's rate. So I tried dialing the call 0-703-xxx-xxxx and using the "85" credit card from AT&T at their "bong". Their operator came on, then explained that they can't accept AT&T's non-telephone credit cards, but she would transfer me. That didn't work, as the AT&T Operator couldn't hear me. I tried using MCI. Apparently I haven't used my cards in a while or something, because MCI says the MCI card they issued me is not valid, and they can't seem to take the telephone company issued card over the 950 or 1-800 access numbers. (I didn't want to use my telephone company issued card directly via 0-703-xxx-xxxx because I felt $4 for the first minute for a local call was excessive.) And while MCI *can* take Visa for credit card calls, they can't take it without a PIN number. I haven't used a PIN number with my Visa card in four years, so I don't even know what the PIN is. I panicked. I tried calling AT&T's number to dial into its switch - and I messed up and dialed the wrong number - which meant I couldn't get through to AT&T; I first thought the phone was blocking that particular 1-800 number. After a while, I calmed down and realized what was wrong; I wasn't dialing 1-800-32-10ATT, I was dialing something else. After I calmed down, I dialed the correct 1-800 number for AT&T and the call went through with the "85" card AT&T issued me. I wasn't too far off on the cost difference; I got through and someone at the relative's place left out money for me to take a taxi from the mall to their house, and it cost $4.75. Paul Robinson - TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 12:35:58 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Subject: White House Orders No Bid Telephone System From: Paul Robinson Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA There has been considerable flack placed upon the White House for deciding to contact two switch bidders -- Northern Telecom and AT&T -- and deciding to place an order consisting of Centrex service from C&P Telephone and ordering a switch from AT&T, without putting this contract out for bids. The White House cited the security concerns which only those two equipment companies were able to meet, as the reason for the no bid contract. A spokesperson for the White House indicated that they need to order something fast to keep up with the huge volumes of calls they are getting, and that the new contracts will give them better service for less than they are paying now. There may be some issue to question the ordering of a telephone switch without putting the order out for bid, but -- irregardless of my personal opinions of the current resident of the Oval office and her husband -- the questioning of the proposed contract with C&P Telephone seems specious, because no matter what type of system was installed, the White House, whether it got Centrex or DID system or even POTS lines or some hybrid, it would still have to contract for local dial tone and loop termination of the standard number 202-456-1414 with the local phone company. Paul Robinson - TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 12:47:30 EDT From: dwn@dwn.ccd.bnl.gov (Dave Niebuhr) Subject: Lawyers and IP Owners There was an article in the July 7, 1993, issue of {Newsday} in the Part II section about why lawyers are held in such low esteem by the general public. There was a little blurb at the end about a person who set up a 900 number that people could call for $5.00 per minute and chew out lawyers. The IP owner? A lawyer. Dave Niebuhr Internet: niebuhr@bnl.gov / Bitnet: niebuhr@bnl Brookhaven National Laboratory Upton, LI, NY 11973 (516)-282-3093 Senior Technical Specialist: Scientific Computer Facility ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 19:28:36 EDT From: ae446@freenet.carleton.ca (Nigel Allen) Subject: Teleglobe Canada to Close Down Globetex Text-to-Telex Service Organization: Echo Beach Reply-To: ae446@freenet.carleton.ca Teleglobe Canada Inc., Canada's only overseas telecommunications carrier, says it plans to close down its Globetex text-to-telex service. It had previously closed down a text-to-fax service. You could reach the Globetex computer via the Datapac packet network or by making a normal modem call. Teleglobe, formerly the Canadian Overseas Telecommunications Corporation, provides telecommunications links between Canada and the rest of the world, except for the United States. Teleglobe is partly owned by BCE Inc., the parent company of Bell Canada. I think BCE owns significantly less than 50 percent of Teleglobe, but I don't know the exact figures. BCE and Teleglobe have their head offices in the same building in Montreal (1000 de La Gauchetiere Street West, which also houses the Montreal terminal of STRSM, the Montreal South Shore Transit Corporation). A letter from Mr. Gilles Leduc, Teleglobe's vice-president of marketing, suggests that Globetex customers could switch to comparable services offered by Stentor (Envoy 100) and Unitel (Dialcom T-mail). Mr. Leduc can be reached by phone at (514) 868-7200, or by fax at (514) 868-7428. In practice, I think that Canadian telecommunications users who want to send a text message to an overseas telex machine may find it easier and cheaper to use a U.S. e-mail service such as MCI Mail, which automatically assigns an MCI telex number to every MCI Mail user. Other e-mail services such as CompuServe and AT&T Mail may also allow users to send telex messages. As other people have pointed out, telex may make sense when you need to communicate with someone in a country where phones are scarce or unreliable. In most other cases, e-mail or fax makes more sense. (A shipbroker tells me that messages about chartering ships are often sent by telex because shipbrokers want written proof a message was sent, though.) Nigel Allen, Toronto, Ontario, Canada ae446@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 93 22:54:42 EDT From: Tony @ Brownvm Subject: Public Phone in Chemult, Oregon Last week I took the train from LA to Portland, Oregon. The train made a three minute stop in Chemult, and I noticed from the window a 1960's style red and white phone booth on the platform. Inside was what appeared to be an ordinary beige wall phone. There was certainly no room for a coinbox, though I couldn't see if there was a dial. There was a small (say 7" x 9") booklet on a shelf in the booth. The booth said TELEPHONE, so I doubt this was a direct taxi line or anything like that. What's the story? Does Chemult have free public phones? I gather it's a small lumber town. On a related note, does anyone know what the cellular coverage is like along the route of the Coast Starlight? How about mobile data (Mobidem)? Amtrak doesn't provide Railfone service on this train, presumably because of spotty coverage. Tony Harminc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 00:38:54 -0400 From: Monty Solomon Subject: Communication Departments Who Can't Communicate [Moderator's Note: Mr. Solomon passed this along from rec.humor.funny. PAT] Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 4:30:02 EDT From: frank@rover.bsd.uchicago.edu (FRANK BORGER) Abstract of a recent phone conversation between myself and a service person from our local communication department. Me (after bouncing through about six offices) "One of our computer lines, (xxx-yyyy) has a bad line. I can no longer get an outgoing dial tone, and incoming calls get a message 'That number is currently being tested, please try again later.' We've been doing work-arounds, but wonder how long it will be down?" Service-droid (after some delay talking to their computer ...) "Oh, that line was de-activated as a cost cutting measure. We can re-activate it if you wish." Me (somewhat puzzled at Ameritech's use of the English language ...) "You mean nobody was actually checking the line? Why did the recorded message say the line was being tested?" Service-droid, (rather bemused at questioning the voice of god ...) "Oh, that's always been the message you get when a line has been de-activated." Selected by Maddi Hausmann. Sponsored by ClariNet Communications Corp. ------------------------------ Subject: Internet Articles in {The Nation} 12 July 1993 From: woody Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 16:52:21 -0400 The current edition of {The Nation} has two articles regarding Internet and related "data superhighway" concerns. The first is by Kevin Cooke and Dan Lehrer, entitled "The Whole World is Talking" and contains a description of Internet's history and possible future, including an anecdote about Wam Kat's "Zagreb Diary" reporting the situation from Croatia via an Internet link through Germany. The second article by Herbert I. Schiller, "Public Way or Private Road?" deals more with the future ownership or "government" of the Internet. There are dangers to letting the private interests run the show, many of which are old hat to the likes of the EFF, various Internet veterans, and the computer underground. Check for 12 July 1993 edition of {The Nation}. David Leibold ------------------------------ From: juergen@jojo.sub.org Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 06:13:07 +0200 Subject: How to Get Coin Phone? Hi folks, A friend of mine will celebrate his ..th birthday this year. Since he is also one of the phoneholics, I want to make a very special gift to him. Well, there are many different new types of phones available, but I think a US coin phone (please no GTE design) would be just great. Now I guess such phones are rather expensive, if you buy them new. But is there a way to get such a phone, "partially" defective, which could be repaired for home use (no coin operation needed)? Here (in Germany) the national telephone operator sells old "stuff" measured by its weight! So I guess the US telcos also want to get rid of old stuff, and make some "money" on it!? Please answer by mail! Thanks. BTW, how to get other used phone equipment in the USA?? Juergen Ziegler | Mail: juergen@jojo.sub.org standard Obervogt-Haefelinstr. 48 | disclaimer 77815 Buehl (Baden) | applies Germany | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 14:34:28 EDT From: Ekkehard.Rohwedder@KURT.TIP.CS.CMU.EDU Subject: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Hello -- I never thought I would have occasion to contribute a story to TELECOM, but ... here it goes: When dialing direct through AT&T to a fax number in Germany: 011 +49 6131 XXX 4555 after some time lag, I always hear a short beep and then a busy signal. On the other hand, I can reach the voice line there at: 011 +49 6131 XXX 450 just fine. I contacted AT&T, and today I finally got a technician on the phone. The bottom line is this: Local U.S. exchanges only have the capacity to store 12-digit numbers (i.e. in my case +49 6131 XXX 455). This turns out to be an illegal phone number in Germany, which causes a congest signal to be sent back to the US (the beep), which then is turned into a busy signal here. The technician was able to reach the fax number dialling through a T1 connection. ATTENTION: EUROPEAN READERS TAKE NOTE If you have a 13 digit (including country code) phone number, you cannot be reached through direct dial from a local exchange in the United States!! (As I was told there are 13-digit numbers currently in Germany, Austria, and the Chech Republic.) AT&T suggested to: (a) go through the operator. -- Of course, this is going to be somewhat of a hassle --- no unattended scheduled faxes this way. Supposedley in this case I would only be charged the direct-dial rate (is this true?). (b) get a T1-pipe connection and not go through the local exchange. This is very expensive. (Just out of curiosity - how expensive? Supposedly there some companies do have their own T1 lines.) Any other suggestions? -- I guess the local exchanges here will always have 12-digit memory only. I am actually a bit surprised that the Long Distance Services Repair operator did not suggest right away to dial through the operator. Maybe this 13-digit problem is not yet so well known or widespread. Ekkehard PS: Excuse me if I used the wrong terminology - I do not know much about telecommunications. I also do not remember having seen this topic brought up here, but then I do not read all the messages on the digest, either. I will try my luck with option (a) when I get home. [Moderator's Note: It is true that when direct dial is not possible for some reason, the AT&T operators will complete the call at direct dial rates, waiving the surcharge for operator assistance. But I have never heard of this before; that a number which requires thirteen digits to dial cannot be reached directly. We in the USA have had IDDD in many exchanges for twenty years, and in almost all exchanges for several years now. No one has yet raised this point??? PAT] ------------------------------ Organization: Valencia University (Universitat de Valencia) SPAIN Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 23:32:58 EST From: Rogelio Montanana Subject: Can I Use Telnet Over a Satellite Link? We are a group of four Universities that want to be connected by high speed links (2 Mb or higher), without using the PTT services, that happen to be very expensive in Spain. The topology would be a star with three links, the distances varying from about 8 Km to about 100 Km. The main protocol used is TCP/IP. Talking with telecommunication specialists they recommend satellite links (they call it VSAT); I remember to have read somewhere that satellite links introduce long delays in the packets sent (something between half a second and two seconds maybe?). It worries me because, for example, using telnet with remote echo means two packets sent per key, and half a second delay would be unacceptable in this situation. The specialists claim that it is no problem, but I am not so sure. Is anybody over there using satellite links for interactive applications, like telnet? I will appreciate hearing of any experience using satellite links in TCP/IP networks. Regards, Rogelio Montanana, System Analyst Tel:(346)3864310 Fax:(346)3864200 Valencia Univ. Computer Center Bitnet: montanan at evalun11 Dr. Moliner, 50 Internet: montanan@vm.ci.uv.es 46100 Burjassot Hepnet: evalun::montanan (or 16530::montanan) Spain X400: C=es;A=mensatex;P=iris;O=uv;OU=ci;OU=vm;SN=montanan ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #457 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa03042; 9 Jul 93 8:39 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA27253 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Fri, 9 Jul 1993 02:24:46 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA19025 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Fri, 9 Jul 1993 02:24:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 02:24:01 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307090724.AA19025@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #458 TELECOM Digest Fri, 9 Jul 93 02:24:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 458 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson HPN '94: High Performance Networking - Call For Papers (C. Diot) Requesting Information on Arch Telecom Corp. (David Lebowitz) Switching Red/Green to Black/Yellow (Rob Knauerhase) There is Indeed Some Competence at Pacific Bell (C. E. Buckley) Information on Singapore Telecomm Wanted (Gerry George) Power Crosses Phoneline (Was why -48V) (system@garlic.sbs.com) Phone Test Set Recommendations? (Scott McClure) Control Device Wanted (Sean Slattery) Electronics Now Telephone Projects (David Leibold) 811 to Reach Telco Business Offices (Lauren Weinstein) 811 in California (was Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511) (Rich Greenberg) Charging, Accounting, Billing (Robert Reijmerink) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christophe.Diot@imag.fr (Christophe Diot) Subject: HPN '94 : High Performance Networking - Call for Papers Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble, France Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 15:44:17 GMT HPN'94 5th IFIP CONFERENCE ON HIGH PERFORMANCE NETWORKING (GRENOBLE- FRANCE) JUNE 27 - JULY 1, 1994 CALL FOR PAPERS *************** OBJECTIVE AND SCOPE This workshop belongs to the serie started in 1987 in Aachen, followed by Liege in 1988, Berlin in 1991 and Liege in 1992. It aims at presenting and discussing evolution in the framework of high-speed networking and computing in private and public networks. Original contributions on the following topics are solicited. A. NEW MAC SERVICES AND PROTOCOLS Gigabit networks ATM-based Systems B. ENHANCED NETWORK AND TRANSPORT SERVICES AND PROTOCOLS Multipeer services and protocols Admission and congestion control Time-constraint management C. NEW SERVICES AND PROTOCOLS Synchronization semantic and management Protocols for groupware communication Video over high speed networks QoS semantic D. NEW APPLICATIONS Multimedia Distribution network algorithms Groupware communication E. INTERNETWORKING Routing in high performance multimedia networks Bridges and routers technology and protocols Meshed architectures F. IMPLEMENTATION AND PERFORMANCE EVALUATION MAC Performance in high speed networks Efficient Protocol Implementation Prospective authors are invited to send an intention to submit a paper (with provisional title, author list, and addresses) to Serge Fdida (fdida@masi.ibp.fr) GENERAL CHAIRMAN Guy Pujolle (MASI, Univ. Versailles, F) PROGRAM CHAIRMAN Serge Fdida (MASI, Univ. Paris 5, F) PROGRAM COMMITTEE Daniel Abensour (IBM Res. Div. Cary, USA) Andres Albanese (Bellcore, USA) Patrick Baker (HP Labs Bristol, UK) Augusto Casaca (INESC P) Greg Chesson (SGI, USA) Andre Danthine (Univ. de Liege, B) Michel Diaz (LAAS, F) Christophe Diot (IMAG, Grenoble, F) Zygmunt Haas (AT&T Bell Labs, USA) Marjory Johnson (RIACS, USA) Nick Maxemchuk (AT&T Bell Labs, USA) Hanafy Meleis (DEC, USA) Gerard Michel (IMAG, Grenoble, F) Craig Partridge (BBN, USA) Radu Popescu-Zeletin (GMD FOKUS, D) Otto Spaniol (Tech. Univ. Aachen, D) Samir Thome (TELECOM PARIS, F) Harmen Van As (IBM Zurich, CH) Martina Zitterbart (Univ. Karlsruhe, D) ORGANIZATION CO-CHAIRMEN Jean-Pierre Verjus (IMAG, Grenoble F) Christophe Diot (IMAG, Grenoble F) VENUE The conference will be organized by the IMAG Institute and IBP Institute, and will be held in Grenoble, France. Grenoble is located at hundred kilometers from Lyon and hundred and fifty kilometers from Geneva. Grenoble is the heart of the French Alps. Following the 1968 Olympic games, Grenoble developed a high technology R&D park around one of the most famous French Universities. CONTRIBUTIONS Papers must be written in English and should not exceed 12 pages single spaced, or 20 pages double spaced. The front page should contain the author's names, address, phones, faxes, and emails, as well as a 150 words abstract. All submitted papers that scope with the topics will be refereed. Authors of accepted papers will be requested to sign a copyright release from the IFIP. A participant edition of the proceedings will be made available at the Conference from the camera-ready copy which will be used later on for the publication of the proceedings by Elsevier (North Holland). The accepted papers not presented by the author(s) at the conference will not be included in the published proceedings. Four copies of the submitted papers will have to be received no later than October 30, 1993, by: Serge FDIDA Universite Rene Descartes - UFR Maths-Info Laboratoire MASI 45, rue des Saints-Peres 75006 Paris (France) Phone : +33 (1) 42 86 21 36; Fax : +33 (1) 42 86 22 31; e.mail : fdida@masi.ibp.fr TUTORIALS Tutorials will be organized on June 27 & 28, 1994. Suggestions for half or full day tutorials are welcome. IMPORTANT DATES OCTOBER 30, 1993 FULL PAPER SUBMISSION DEADLINE JANUARY 31, 1994 NOTIFICATION OF ACCPTANCE MARCH 31, 1994 CAMERA-READY COPY DUE JUNE 27-28, 1994 TUTORIALS JUNE 29, JUL 1, 1994 CONFERENCE Any information about HPN'94 can be requested through e-mail at the following adress: HPN94@imag.fr If interested by HPN '94, return the following information to Serge Fdida (by post or e.mail): [ ] I intend to submit a paper to HPN '94; the provisional title will be ............................................. The list of authors will be ............................... e-mail for the first author:............................... [ ] I do not intend to submit a paper but I am interested to receive the program of HPN '94 First and last names :..................................... Title :................... Affiliation :................... Address: .................................................. Tel : ................... Fax :........................... E.mail :................. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 22:29 GMT From: David Lebowitz <0004051565@mcimail.com> Subject: Requesting Info on Arch Telecom Corp. Recently a relative of mine was recruited by a company in the tele- communication business to work for them as a sales representative. She attended a seminar provided by the company and then contacted me to see if I might be interested in becoming involved. I asked for more details on the company and the arrangements for representation and she forwarded a couple of brochures and a copy of their employment contract. The name of the company is Arch Telecom, their headquarters is in Houston, Texas. From what I can determine, they are a re-seller of 800 services and claim to have exclusive and proprietary software that allows them to offer services that other 800 providers don't have. .Fraud Detection and Cost Controls. They guarantee that the user will not be responsible for any amount over $50 because they monitor all calls constantly. .Travel card. Arch Telecom's calling card service has no sur- charge, 6 second call rounding, no call minimum, no higher 1st minute rate, protection from unauthorized use, speed dialing, customers' own choice of authorization codes, international calling capabilities, 24 hour customer service. .Automatic transfer of calls via preset codes by receptionist. .Transfers of calls anywhere without pre-programming by recep- tionist. .Caller may transfer calls by use of predetermined pre-programmed codes allowing caller to make multiple calls to other offices or locations without hanging up. .Automated menu routing. .Live operator database routing based on zip codes, customer I.D. or product codes, etc. .Real time destination programming allowing the customer to re- program from any touch tone phone, where their "800" number will ring. .Exchange-by-exchange routing, allows a compnay with multiple locations to use 1 "800" number. Calls are automatically routed to the closest office. .Overflow routing. .ANI blocking/passing. Blocks access of unmwanted calls or limits access. .Custom calling region to limit the area from which the number is accessible. .Real time ANI & DNIS. .Customer call back. By entering a predetermined code customers can return calls to hang-ups or disconnects. .International call back. .On-line up to the second call detail. Since I'm no authority on the details of 800 services, I would appreciate any feedback on the relative value of the services as well as information on their availability from other sources. I would also be very interested in hearing from anyone who has had any experience in dealing with Arch Telecom. They claim to have grown to $100,000,000.00 in annual billings in a very short time without any sales force whatsoever. Thus I assume that there must be people out there who have done business with them and might be willing to share some information about them. Thanks for any assistance or information you can provide. David K. Lebowitz dlebowitz@mcimail.com ------------------------------ From: knauer@ibeam.intel.com (Rob Knauerhase) Subject: Switching Red/Green to Black/Yellow Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 21:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Intel Mobile Software Lab, Hillsboro, OR Greetings all, Does anyone know of a switch that will take a four-wire input (where red/green are line one and black/yellow are line two) and select one of the pairs to connect to red/green output? I have two lines in my apartment, and would like an easier way of switching the modem between them than moving the plug from one jack to another. Radio Shack (even the catalog) was unhelpful. Hello Direct sells a two-lines-to-one-line switch, but it's (1) expensive and (2) clumsy since I'd have to split my one wire in two in order to switch between them. I've checked in a couple other places to no avail as well. Thanks, Rob Knauerhase, Intel Mobile Software Lab, Hillsboro OR [Moderator's Note: Radio Shack has a two-line controller which uses buttons on the front to shift the line of your choice into a single line output. For incoming calls, the ringing signal forces the con- troller to shift the ringing line into the output. I've got one here which allows two Caller-ID equipped lines to be fed into a single Caller-ID display unit. Either ringing line seizes the controller and feeds its output to the display box. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 21:17:03 -0700 From: ceb@netcom.com (Buckley) Subject: There is Indeed Some Competence at Pacific Bell I recently had a service interaction with a Pacific Bell business office representative that was so extraordinarily above their usual mediocre performance that I'd like to see to it that the represen- tative involved gets proper credit. Unlike the typical Pacific Bell interface employee, this person knew her stuff, and really did an effective job. Even more refreshing was that when she didn't knwo something, she actually went and found out the answer instead of trying to making something something up (through which I can usually see). I know her identifying information, and am so impressed I'd be more than happy to write a letter of commendation for her (in case anyone there does care about quality and competence, which sometimes seems far from evident). I know that Pacific Bell employees lurk on this list, and I'd be most appreciative for advice on how to make known my experience in a way that won't actually cause more harm than good (as often seems to happen when commendations are fed into organizations which institutionalize mediocrity). If Pacific Bell is serious about being some place where "'good enough' isn't", I'd appreciate the opportunity to give a push to someone who might materially contribute to making that come true. ------------------------------ From: ggeorge@bu.edu (Gerry George) Subject: Information on Singapore Telecomm Wanted Date: 9 Jul 1993 04:22:35 GMT Organization: Boston University I am in dire need of some information from anyone at U. of Penn. (Wharton Business School) or Cornell U. I'm trying to get a copy of part of a report on "Teleconnumications in Southeast Asia" by Frost & Sullivan Research Inc. The portion I'm specifically interested in is on Singapore. I found out that it is online at the Wharton Business School Library, and is available on the shelf (bound copy) at Cornell U. Is there anyone out there in netland who knows how I can get online access to the Wharton School Library or the U-Penn system? Either a host name or dial-up number would be fine. In addition, information about any access restrictions or a contact name (library personnel at either Wharton or Cornell) whom I could contact for information would also be helpful. Additionally, would anyone in comp.dcom.telecom world know of any pointers, additional info, or any general help? This info is required for a research project, and is required *as soon as possible* so please e-mail me at ggeorge@acs.bu.edu if you can provide any help. Thanks very much, Gerry George School of Management, Boston Univ. Internet: ggeorge@acs.bu.edu HomeNet: ggeorge@jacquot.ci.net Compu$erve: 72607.2560@compuserve.com ------------------------------ From: system@garlic.sbs.com Date: Thu, 08 Jul 93 22:34:15 EDT Subject: Power Crosses Phone Lines (was Why -48V on Local Loop?) Andy Rabagliati writes: > In the UK, any crossing of power lines over phone lines is treated > with great concern. Big netting arrangements are built, so that if the > power cables break they will still not touch phone lines. [The above was left in just for clarity] > Phone lines strung cross country are bare wires -- not the two inch > cables seen in the US. Those two inch cables in the United States used to carry quite a few copper pairs and are just now beginning to carry lots of fiber optic lines. > Phone lines in town are ALWAYS buried. Lots of cities and states in the US seem to be pushing for burial of most utility cables. Funny part is, where I live my electrical service is underground, but telephone is still on poles. I've noticed that during storms you can ALWAYS expect the electricity to go out (if your lines are on poles) but the phone service hardly EVER goes out with the exception of a physically torn line. Tony system@hades.cdp.org ------------------------------ From: scott@ryptyde.nix.com (Scott McClure) Subject: Phone Test Set Recommendations? Organization: NIX - The Network Information eXchange Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 08:05:19 GMT Hi all, I bought a Vodavi LTS-2000 test set last week, and used it briefly over the last weekend. It is a fairly basic model, with few "extras." To make a short story long, I ran into a PacBell installer and we got into comparing gear. His had all kinds of features, such as memory presets and a speakerphone (really nice to have when you're trying to do a million things at once!). 8-) So I've been looking at exchanging it for a model with more features. I've been looking at spec sheets on several other models, such as the Dracon TS-22 and 22A. The former is available at the local Greybar for $299.94. The 22A (top-of-the-line) is $433.27. I'm not sure I really want to pay over $400 for a test set. Has anyone else used a particular brand/model they would recommend? Do the above prices seem "reasonable?" Thanks, Scott INTERNET: scott@nix.com Non-MX: ryptyde!scott@nosc.mil UUCP: {crash, nosc}!ryptyde!scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 13:09 GMT From: Sean Slattery Subject: Control Device Wanted Hello all, I am looking for a box that I can attach to a phone line such that when I call that line the box will answer and will close relay contacts according to what I type on the pad. For example: I would dial up the box, it would answer, I would dial "7364#" and contact A would close, I would dial "45#" and contact B would close. Dialing "*" would cause contact C to close only while the "*" tone was present (in this case you would buzzing someone through a door). Box should be completely programmable as to number of digits and actions. This is for an access control system for my company, I have been tasked with the job of designing a system flexible enough so that the engineers won't disable it when it thwarts them. Please reply to: vonslatt@mcimail.com Sean Slattery Network Administrator Airflow Research & Mfg. ------------------------------ Subject: Electronics Now Telephone Projects From: woody Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 23:52:06 -0400 The August '93 edition of _Electronics_Now_ (formerly Radio-Electronics, which formerly was Radio Craft) has a couple of telephone projects for the DIY enthusiast. One is a phone line simulator which provides ringing signal, and a tone (albeit a 500 Hz tone, not a true 350/440Hz dual tone) through RJ11 jacks. Phone sets and answering machines can thus be tested off the local loop. The other project is a phone line selector, with four phone lines input, going to a single line output (such as an answering machine, etc). This is not to be confused with devices to decode a distinctive ringing cadence; this device just picks up the first call on the incoming lines. David Leibold ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 00:36 PDT From: lauren@vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein) Subject: 811 to Reach Telco Business Offices Greetings. The Moderator mentions use of 811 in California to reach the telco business office. It's worth noting that 811 is not a complete number -- at least not in Pacific or GTE territories. Actually, 811 is a statewide "prefix" used by Pacific Bell (I don't know if Pacific's Nevada territory is tied in). There are a whole slew of 811 + 4D numbers for reaching all manner of business offices, administrative offices, corporate headquarters, etc. Many are listed in local telephone directories. I believe that most 811 numbers are mapped into conventional POTS numbers. Note that these 811 numbers are dialed without any area codes -- they are "local" (and toll-free) everywhere you can dial them. While the phone books warn that 811 numbers may not be reachable from non-Pacific areas, I've yet to find a GTE area where 811 numbers were not dialable. How the internal billing for 811 is handled between the companies, and how the inter-LATA traffic is routed, might be interesting. Most likely it all travels on Pacific Bell private circuits. GTE, by the way, makes no use of 811 themselves in California, but uses 800 numbers extensively for business offices and the like. --Lauren-- ------------------------------ From: richgr@netcom.com (Rich Greenberg) Subject: 811 in California (was Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511) Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 15:09:51 GMT In article BBOERNER@novell.com our Esteemed Moderator who was remarking on a post from (Brendan B. Boerner) noted: > [Moderator's Note: Don't forget 611 in your list above which is often > used for repair service. 811 is used in California to reach the phone > company business office ... I guess the news hasn't worked as far east as Chicago yet. 811-xxxx to reach your local telco (provided that your local telco happens to be Pa Bell) has been phased out. I had noticed some months ago that all of the Pa Bell phone numbers on my bill were 800- numbers, not the 811 numbers. The next time I had business with Pa Bell, I asked the rep why. The reason turned out to be quite sensible and customer service oriented. Within California, where whatever Pa Bell tells the little telcos to put into their routing tables goes (with the exception of those who don't know how to fix the tables) 811 was working well. The problem was that some Pa Bell bills were being paid by out-of-state corporate headquarters and that number was increasing with mergers, buyouts, takeovers, ... It didn't make sense to have 800 numbers for out of state and 811 in-state, so they just made all of us dial an extra four digits. :-( Rich Greenberg Work: ETi Solutions, Oceanside CA 619-631-5280 N6LRT TinselTown, USA Play: richgr@netcom.com 310-649-0238 I speak for myself only. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1993 11:15:35 +0000 (GMT) From: R.A.J.Reijmerink@research.ptt.nl (Robert Reijmerink) Subject: Charging, Accounting, Billing Organization: PTT Research, The Netherlands I have a few questions about telecommunication billing. Billing procedure in the Netherlands provides every customer with one (specified) bill every two months. Tariffing is centralised. However, situations occur in which customers (i.e. customer terminals: PBX or payphone) have a more direct need for cost information, preferably on-line. For this, the term direct charging is used. With direct charging the problem of tariff distribution arises. In the Netherlands, direct charging is now conducted by means of sending 50 Hz meter pulses to the calling party's terminal. We are looking for alternative ways of sending cost data to user's terminals. Choosing a widely used solution is of importance and therefore we would like to have a view of some methods used for direct charging in other countries. Can anyone provide information about this subject? The following questions are of concern: - How is direct charging done in your country? In what ways can subscribers get on-line charging information? - What signals are provided to subscribers (which protocol, meter pulses, other solutions)? - How is tariff information transferred to peripheral devices, like payphones and PBXs ? Please answer by email. Thanks in advance, Robert Reijmerink PTT Research P.O.Box 15000 9700 CD Groningen The Netherlands Internet R.A.J.Reijmerink@research.ptt.nl Phone +31 50 821089 Uucp [mcsun,hp4nl]!pttrtl!reijmeri Fax +31 50 122415 X.400 Country:NL,Admd:400Net,Prmd:PTT Research,Surname:Reijmerink ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #458 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa20778; 9 Jul 93 20:59 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA30481 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Fri, 9 Jul 1993 17:57:27 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA02727 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Fri, 9 Jul 1993 17:56:50 -0500 Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 17:56:50 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307092256.AA02727@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #459 TELECOM Digest Fri, 9 Jul 93 17:56:30 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 459 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (Seth B. Rothenberg) Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (Charles Stephens) Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (Bob Goudreau) Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (Carl Moore) Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (John R. Levine) Re: Some More Historical Questions (John R. Levine) Re: Some More Historical Questions (Carl Oppedahl) Re: Some More Historical Questions (Mark Terribile) Re: Dialing "1" First (Paul Houle) Re: Dialing "1" First (David Leibold) Re: Dialing "1" First (David Breneman) Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? (Reid R. Buyaky) Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? (Dale Farmer) Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? (Jeffrey Jonas) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rothen+@pitt.edu (Seth B Rothenberg) Subject: Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 Date: 8 Jul 93 13:30:40 GMT Organization: University of Pittsburgh In article hhallika@tuba.calpoly.edu (Harold Hallikainen) writes: > I recently got the PacBell bill stuffer on "1 means ten digits > follow". It looks like that's really gonna free up the number space. > People have complained about not knowing if a call is gonna cost them. > Maybe the telco can give a little warning beep as the call is being > handled. Maybe this could be done by requiring IXCs to play their standard tone whether the call is operator or not. eg, you would dial 1-212-555-4320 and hear " (chime!) AT & T" and then ringing. Or "(chime!) Thank you for using AT&T" and then ringing. Of course, then you would need the LECs to also give 'toll warnings' such as "(bong) Thank you for using Bell of PA" (they don't use a chime like AT&T does. Seth ------------------------------ From: cfs@mathcs.emory.edu (Charles Stephens) Subject: Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 Date: 8 Jul 1993 17:11:42 GMT Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS In MetroAtlanta (Southern Bell area) 611 is reserved for repair and 311 is used in some locations as automatic number readback. Very convenient when you don't label your phone jacks and you need to know which one goes to which phone line. Charles Stephens cfs@mathcs.emory.edu DISCLAIMER: I am a guest a Emory's Math and CS Dept., all opinions expressed, except those quoted by others, are my own, and not those of said organization. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 13:39:32 -0400 From: goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau) Subject: Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 In article hhallika@tuba.calpoly.edu (Harold Hallikainen) writes: > ... I prefer my previously proposed method of using # or timeout on > dialing. The system would then assume all unspecified leading digits > were the same as the originating phone. That way, I could dial one > digit to get my second line, or eleven digits (country code, area code, > and seven digits). This method would allow those with pocket dialers to > use the same number, no matter where they were. It would also remove > the need for an international access code. If you dialed eleven or more > digits, the first ones must be country codes. But you presume too much by requiring all fully-qualified international numbers to be at least 11 digits long. Not all countries have numbers which are guaranteed to be that long; some tiny countries have numbers as short as seven or eight total digits (including the three-digit country code). So, for example, how would you parse "6172345678" -- as a call to the Boston area (area code 617, with the missing country code defaulting to 1), or as a fully qualified number in the Brisbane, Australia area (country 61, area code 7)? Bob Goudreau Data General Corporation goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com 62 Alexander Drive +1 919 248 6231 Research Triangle Park, NC 27709, USA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 9:58:35 EDT From: Carl Moore Subject: Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 There was a note in the Digest recently about 711 being used for self-ring in area 412 in western Pennsylvania. Anyone else ever hear anything regarding any usage of 711? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 09:57 EDT From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Subject: Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 Organization: I.E.C.C. BellSouth made a big deal a little while ago about their plan to offer the currently unassigned X11 codes to various sorts of information services. (They listed it as one of their wonderful new advances in the quarterly financial report.) It is my impression that Bellcore's NANP folks are not thrilled by this plan, but since Bellcore is BellSouth's slave (along with the other RBOC's) there isn't much they can do about it. Perhaps they can assign 511 as an overlay area code for Miami. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl [Moderator's Note: This sort of fiasco did not happen back in the days when we had 'one system' (Bell) and 'one way of doing things', did it John? :) PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 11:13 EDT From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Subject: Re: Some More Historical Questions Organization: I.E.C.C. > The account of this hookup said that the governor spoke into a > water-cooled microphone in Oklahoma City and the signal was audible in > Tulsa, about 100 Miles to the Northeast. They probably just pumped fantastic amounts of power through it. In the early days of electronics, in the absence of tube-based tunable amplifiers or receivers, they just cranked up the power since power generation was a technology which was already well established thanks to Tesla and Edison. I visited the Marconi site in Sydney N.S. a while back; one of his first trans-Atlantic radio stations, and the amount of power it used was amazing (although at the moment I can't find what it was), something like a megawatt. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl ------------------------------ From: oppedahl@panix.com (Carl Oppedahl) Subject: Re: Some More Historical Questions Date: 8 Jul 1993 19:52:39 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC In Martin McCormick writes: > The account of this hookup said that the governor spoke into a > water-cooled microphone in Oklahoma City and the signal was audible in > Tulsa, about 100 Miles to the Northeast. Well, last year in {QST}, the amateur radio magazine, there was a photograph of a water-cooled telegraph key. A modern-day reconstruction of an old one, that is. Then one looked at the date of the magazine ... April. Carl Oppedahl AA2KW (intellectual property lawyer) 30 Rockefeller Plaza New York, NY 10112-0228 voice 212-408-2578 fax 212-765-2519 ------------------------------ From: mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us Subject: Re: Some More Historical Questions Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 00:19:30 GMT Our Moderator notes: > Amazing technology? By the time grandpa left us he had seen in his > lifetime: the invention of radio, television, talking movies, airplanes, > automobiles, computers, countless other things; he saw the telephone > and electricity come into very wide acceptance and use as well, > bringing with widespread electrical distribution the use of refriger- > ators, fans, household lighting, etc. Can you imagine coming into a > world with none of those things as a young person growing up and and > having all of them in your daily life when you leave? Will we ever see > another century like the 20th in terms of sheer variety of inventions > and technological changes? ... Given the changes in the > past century, doesn't it blow your mind to think of what technology > will be like when *you* depart? I know it excites me. PAT] Excites? It _frightens_ me! Cast your minds back to the summer of 1969, those of you who are old enough. As Apollo 11's Lunar Module separated from the Command Module and began its descent to our moon's surface, a horde of dignitaries, guests, and such sat or stood watching a screen in a hall near Mission Control. In the front row there was a pair of black men. One of them was (if I recall correctly) 65 years old. He was there to accompany his father, who was 113 years old at the time, having been born a slave in the antebellum south. And those of you who are not old enough -- imagine the hush in millions of homes as the first pictures come back from the moon. Deep as we are in the heart of the Cold War this transmission is piped to the Soviet Union and broadcast there for those lucky enough to have -- or to be able to see -- a television. Imagine, if you can, the over-contrasty side view of a ladder, the black shape at the top changing as the hatch is opened, the clumsy white form stepping backwards down the ladder as hushed voice breaks in to explain what you are watching ... the glitch that suddenly turned the image negative until it was corrected a minute or so later ... and the feeling, when the transmission ended, that you may never quite understand all that this has meant. (This man's opinions are his own.) From mole-end Mark Terribile mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us, Somewhere in Matawan, NJ [Moderator's Note: Oh Mark, I think the television coverage that Sunday night was the most amazing thing I've ever seen. At the time, I had a part-time job running the switchboard at the South Shore Country Club weekend evenings. Normally that three-position board was a real rocker, busy all the time; that night it was dead. Everyone in the place was downstairs either in the lobby or the cocktail lounge watch- ing the 'moon walk' on television. And not a peep from anyone. Dead silence with their eyes glued on the picture. Even the talking heads on television -- I call them the men with the fifty dollar hairdoos and the fifty cent brains -- had nothing to say once those men came down the ladder. Do you recall the twenty minutes or so of totally dead audio on CBS? Just silence as the camera followed those guys around, first to install the flag of the United States then to go about collecting rocks and dirt specimens to bring back to earth ... that was broadcast everywhere in the world simultaneously; people having their lunch Monday noon in Australia watched as amazed as we did here. Normally talkative Walter Cronkite was stunned into sil- ence. Oh yes, we wanted the Soviet Union to see this -- so what if it was four in the morning in Moscow! Do you recall President Nixon speaking briefly after that? He spoke only a minute or so in relative humility -- what could he say except thank you for a job well done to the people who made it possible? And the front page of the paper the next day was a single large photo of the men uprighting the American flag on the moon -- like that old photo from 25 years earlier at Iwo Jima -- and a headline, "Wow! Can You Believe This?" You can purchase a video of the entire event based on the CBS-TV coverage that Sunday night from Columbia House in Terre Haute, IN. I don't need a video. It is burned in my memory forever. ------------------------------ From: Paul.Houle@leotech.MV.COM (Paul Houle) Reply-To: houle@leotech.MV.COM Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1993 13:51:00 Subject: Re: Dialing "1" First Tom writes: > To 1+ or 0+ means that I am spending extra money. I like to > know this. I do too; Not too long I made all my phone calls on a campus phone system {could tell you the worst horror stories about Sprint, but I'll pass}, where I had to dial 3+ to enter an authorization code and 9+ to get an outside line. Well, not too long I was making an international call on an ordinary residental line {thank god!}, and I tried to enter my ATT calling card number as a "3+" once, realized what I was doing wrong, and then tried to dial the call "9+", well, I'm dialing "900+[more stuff]" and there were enough digits there to form a legal 900 number. Now, if you could dial a 900 number without the 1+, I could have gotten socked pretty bad. Unscrupulous 900 providers might find high volume international numbers and set up a number that slams you for $50 or so. I think this is already being done with 800 numbers, since I am sure people have their fingers slip when dialing them and hit the "9" instead. It might really pay to have a 900 number that is close to the number of really big mail order houses, reservation lines, long distance access ports ... 1-900-CALL-ATT and 1-900-COLLECT! When I called the number that was mentioned here that reads back your number along with an ad for 1-900-STOPPER, I got a "wrong number" the first time which seemed to be a hint line for a computer game on acid. Seriously. There was a voice menu telling you to "Dial 1 if you just landed on the planet Clorox 2 and don't know what to do", and "Dial 5 if you can't get past the pukeoid". Turns out that my finger slipped and there was an adjacent 900 number, as was investigated with the use of my custom long distance savings plan. Origin: NETIS (603) 432-2517/432-0922 (HST/V32) (1:132/189) ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Dialing "1" First From: woody Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 10:07:45 -0400 When the 416/905 split occurs in October, ten digit local calls will be introduced when crossing the Metro Toronto boundary (which will be the new area 416 boundary). Local calls from Toronto to 905 points will be dialed as 905 + number (no 1+ needed) whereas local calls into Toronto will be dialed as 416 + number. 1+ is only necessary for toll calls. Whether Bell Canada will permit local calls to be dialed with the 1+ in front remains to be seen, though calling 1+ local number normally results in a recorded message complaining that the call is not long distance. David Leibold ------------------------------ From: daveb%avatar@dsinet.dgtl.com (David Breneman) Subject: Re: Dialing "1" First Date: 9 Jul 93 19:40:37 GMT johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) writes: > To tell a number like 802-5556 from 802-555-6789, there are > two dialing plans in use in North America. In one plan, all calls > within your area code are dialed with seven digits, whether they are > local or toll. In the other, all toll calls are dialed with eleven > digits, even within your area code. There's also another dialing plan -- all toll calls are dialed with a 1 first. If its inside your area code, you dial eight digits; if its outside your area code, you dial 11 digits. This is the way it was in 206 until last year when we were switched to 1-206 for all toll calls. Still, it's not so bad -- I remember when our access code was 1123! Now here's another question -- why do all the people with 800 numbers say "dial One, Eight-Hundred," etc? The "one" is superfluous information. If you dial 800, you *must* dial the access code. ...And having lived in an area where "1" was *not* the access code (it is now) it really peeved me! ("Ignorant urban-centric jerks...") :-) David Breneman Email: daveb@jaws.engineering.dgtl.com System Administrator, Software Engineering Services Digital Systems International, Inc. Voice: 206 881-7544 Fax: 206 556-8033 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 09:00:33 EDT From: mr!dev2!rbuyaky@uu3.psi.com (Reid R. Buyaky) Subject: Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence Steve Forrette (stevef@wrq.com) responded to my query: > To the point of your original question, here's what it cost me: the > standard residential installation charge of $31 per line, plus $11 per > line for the four lines that are in a hunt group (more on hunting > later). So, I expected to pay around $200 for the installation, plus > the standard labor rate.. Geesh ... did I get taken for a ride? As I originally wrote, I finally wound up installing eight lines into rented office space. There was no question that these were going to be business lines, though. The installation charges for those first eight lines ran around $1000!! When I increased my line count to 16 I had to pay another $1000 (approx.). These were all supposed to be no frills lines (pulse dial, per call charges instead of measured rates, etc.) but they stuck me with tone dial and a fee that allowed me 70 free calls per month (recall that these lines were for a BBS, so there were NO outgoing calls expected to be made). I didn't catch this problem until the second group of lines were installed, and the installer went over the order with me. They tried to give me those extra services on the new lines, too. I asked for a refund on those services they sold me that I had explicitly asked NOT to have, and they said "Your fault ... you should have reviewed the order at the time of installation." I know the tariffs set the maximum installation charges for residential lines, and my telco (Ohio Bell) told me what those were. But no one seemed to know what the tariff said about business lines (the PUC referred me to some main telco office in Cleveland that's always busy). Scott H Harris (sharris@chopin.udel.edu) responded to my query: > out said "NO." That is just too many lines for a residence. They > suggested I go with a Centrex service. I like the concept, but at > $36.99 per line *each month* and additional "service" fees, this can > add up quickly. Are there any better ways to go about getting a hunt > group for dirt cheap? Actually, Centrex would have been THE way for me to go when all this started. But four years ago, they weren't marketing it to "small" businesses. According to a co-worker who used to work for Ameritech when Centrex was first introduced, it was geared for, and marketed to, businesses with 100-200 lines, or more. Eight lines was too small for them to mess with back then. Now they've set it up so you can get Centrex here on as few as seven lines (possibly as few as two). For standard business lines, one can save quite a bit on monthly charges with Centrex. Since I had stripped down service, I won't save any money at all. But the hook for me was the charge for installing additional lines. Activity on my BBS fluctuates wildly. I've had as many as 16 lines running busy all the time, to as few as eight active lines struggling for activity. With Centrex, I can up my line count as high as I want for about a $61 installation fee, in total (of course, monthly charges are per line). This would allow me to drop my line count (for free) during slack periods, and increase them during busy times (like Summer) for a minimal fee. Compared to the ~$1000 I paid to add eight lines before, this is like Heaven. Reid R. Buyaky (Software Systems Engineer) Micro Resources, Inc. -- rbuyaky@mr.com Heartland Multiline BBS - 614-846-7669 MajorNet - Sysop@HRT ------------------------------ From: dale@access.digex.net (Dale Farmer) Subject: Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? Date: 9 Jul 1993 16:41:36 GMT Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Last year my uncle built a small residential development in Eastern Mmassachusetts. We put the street in also so we went to New England Tel. and asked them what they wanted. After giving them the information (six house lots, three to six bedrooms each, and showing them the land plot) They told us we could put in their cable and hardware (provided by them at no cost) or they could charge us a lot of $$ to put it in themselves. We took the spool of 25 pair and the spool of six pair, plus the funny green mushrooms that the splice points appear in. Power and sewer up one side of the street, telephone, cable TV and drinking water up the other side of the street, all buried 12 feet for liquids and eight feet down for cables. (We put it deeper than the minimum required. We do good work.) So the 25 pair appears in all of the mushrooms, and six pair from the mushroom to the house. I would wager that two or three pairs were connected all the way back to the CO for each house. (I was not there the day the telco came and made the connections and locked up the mushrooms) Leaving several spare pairs for future use. Actually, since they gave us enough 25 pair we put in two runs of 25 pair from the old street to the intersection where the extra side street left the main street of the development, there are double the number of pairs in the development that the telco asked for. Then a single 25 pair from there to the side street, and a single 25 pair the rest of the way down the main street. So one house has (in theory) all 50 pairs available to it in the mushrooms. the rest of them only have 25 available in the mushroom. Dale ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 14:04:40 EDT From: jeffj%jiji@krf.jvnc.net (Jeffrey Jonas) Subject: Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? When I moved into the old two family house, the phone wires were probably over 50 years old. I asked for and got two lines. The standard operating procedure here in NJ is to pull a cable of six pairs to the house and attach the demarc outside the house with the usual gray box. So I guess asking for up to six lines is quite reasonable. While walking to the train station, I passed a New Jersey Bell truck with a familiar looking spool - yup, six pair. Yesterday, I lost dial tone on my modem line, and I checked that it was dead at the demarc. It didn't occur to me to check the unused four lines. I'd guess they're not even attached at the pole (unless they attached one or two in anticipation of growth so the line could be activated without any service call, just from the CO. But that doesn't sound right since a visit is usually required to verify the dial tone reaches the demarc, or identify the lines, perform line tests, etc.) Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix.com [Moderator's note: Did you find out the problem and get service restored to the modem line? PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #459 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa23078; 9 Jul 93 23:05 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA29112 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Fri, 9 Jul 1993 20:40:55 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA01223 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Fri, 9 Jul 1993 20:40:13 -0500 Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 20:40:13 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307100140.AA01223@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #460 TELECOM Digest Fri, 9 Jul 93 20:40:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 460 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Moving Up the Food Chain (Paul Robinson) Send Suggestions for ISDN FAQ (Michael J. Barr) EIA/TIA Standards (Bonnie J. Johnson) Talk Ticket Distributors Wanted (TELECOM Moderator) Phone Noises, Frequencies and Durations (Scott Perry) Computerized Phone Directory Sites (Richard C. Harrison) ISDN/SS7 Test Equipment Needed (Holly Elliott) Audiovox CTX-3200M Programming Information Available (Bill Nickless) Interesting Use of ANI at Ballys (Seng-Poh Lee) DXI Interface (Martin Steinmann) Unitel Access Phone Number in Toronto? (Albert Pang) Do Operators Interrupt Modem Calls? (Anthony Wallis) CDMA Technology Texts (Richard Nash) 700 Number Information Wanted (Mark Christopher Macsurak) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 07:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Subject: Moving Up the Food Chain From: Paul Robinson Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA Seven years ago, I started communicating via modem using a 1200 baud modem. Over the past four years, I've bought at least five 2400 baud modems, starting with a 2400, a 2400 with send-only fax, a 2400 with send-receive fax, and finally an external 2400 with send/receive fax for a machine that I could not install an internal in because the serial port used had sockets for both Com1 and Com2. After wanting to do so for more than five months, I finally moved "up the food chain" to the top of the line of standard commercial modems, a 14,400 baud Practical Peripherals V32bis IBM-PC internal modem in a half length card which includes send/receive fax capability at the same speed. (I say 'standard commercial' because any PC-Based modem faster than 14400 baud must use a proprietary method and will only talk to another modem of the same brand and type). I purchased the modem at Micro Center in Vienna, VA. The price was a reasonable $229.95. I could have purchased a slightly less expensive no-name brand for $199, but this modem included service trial offers from the four major on-line services: America On Line, Compuserve, Genie, and Prodigy. Features mentioned in the manual: The modem will operate at V32Bis and lower speeds (14400, 9600, 7200, 4800, 2400, 1200 and 300 baud); it includes MNP 1-4 and MNP 5, as well as V42 and V42bis, the usual standards for error correction and data compression of text files. It will allow the computer it is plugged inside of to talk to it at any speed up to 57,000 baud. It supports the $ "wait for bong" feature, ! to issue a 1/2 second "flash", and @ for "wait for silence". The Fax capability supports both Class 1 and 2 at 14400 to 4800 baud. The modem claims that it has built-in support for Caller ID, which I can't test because I don't have it on my line, but if the phone company offers installation charge amnesty for Caller-ID anytime soon, I'll probably take it for a time to try it. My own experiences with this modem: I have only had the modem for about six hours, but here is my experience based upon using a few services. Calling the usual 1-800-456-6245 number on MCI Mail got a standard 2400 baud connection and no significant difference in speed. Since I am local to MCI's 9600 baud number, I decided to use the 202 number instead of the 9600 baud 1-800 number so I could see how it would perform on a local call. When I was using a modem at 2400 baud, Zmodem transfers came in at the 235-237 cps range. MCI Mail's 9600 baud connection is supposed to support MNP5 (data compression), but the parameter settings they give in their help file do not match any of the command parameter values my modem supports. MCI's suggested command strings all begin with backslash or percent (\, %) whereas this modem's command strings all begin with a letter or an ampersand except for the %CCID= command to enable or disable receipt of Caller-ID info or %CRID= to re-display last-received caller-id. I'll probably do better as I figure out what settings to use; I've been getting much better results since I started changing some parameters. Zmodem transfers on MCI Mail are taking place in the 840-850 CPS range which seems a bit on the low side. However, I called a local BBS and uploaded an 8K text file which I had downloaded from MCI, but the BBS supported an LAP-M connection with V.42bis and the file, uploaded with ZMODEM, transferred at a staggering 2000 CPS! The 8K text file transferred in four seconds! On at least one BBS I called, my modem claimed to get a connection at 14400, but had problems which were alleviated when I forced the connection for that particular modem to be no higher than 9600. One BBS I had to call twice because the first connection locked up without a response. Another one connected at 2400 but would not accept input. I fixed this by telling the terminal program to not "auto baud select" which means it leaves the port locked at 38400 baud, but the two modems talk at whatever speed that they connect. On another BBS it connected without a problem at 9600. I did some uploads. On a couple of files, one being a ZIP archive, I was doing about 850-900 cps. On a text file, I was getting 945 cps. If I had disabled compression the ZIP file might have gone through faster. Major differences between calling at 9600 baud and higher is the extra time for connections to be made and broken. The extra negotiations for 9600 or above can take anywhere from three to ten seconds longer than the usual two or three second negotiation of two 2400 baud modems. Also, call teardowns can take much longer, sometimes ten seconds at high speed as opposed to zero to two at 2400 baud; I discovered that it was to my advantage to reset an S-Register to set the "time before disconnect" parameter (S38) to one second. This parameter is used to allow packets to finish transferring before a disconnection is made. I called up one site which would connect at 14400 would display to me correctly, but my input became garbage. Oddly, changing the default for that one number to force 9600 caused it to _still_ make a connection at 14400, but then my input was okay. I now notice the difference. An ANSI full screen update at 2400 isn't too bad; at 14,400 the screen just flies by! I haven't had the opportunity to test the fax capability as I made the mistake of not checking the package label; the diskettes enclosed are all 1.2 meg 5 1/4" disks and I can only support either 3.5" in 1.4m or 720K, or 5 1/4" at 360K. I will have to obtain replacement disks in a size I can use. The software supplied is Smith Micro's Quick Link, a program that is acceptable for fax use but worthless as a terminal program; I've used it before. In fact, I may even have an old copy of the same send/recieve program around here from an older modem. The modem will also dial the special A B C D codes in touch tone mode. It also does something which I had not known was being done in modems now, and would help people who want to use a modem as an automated dialer. I can dial a number such as 1-800-CALL-ATT by telling the modem to dial: ATDT 1800 "CALLATT" and the modem will translate the letters (except Q and Z) into the associated digits. The double quote tells the modem that the indicated field is a string of digit letter equivalence. And if you forget what the codes are, AT $H will bring up six screens showing every AT command and the default value. Press space at the end of a screen to go to the next page, ESC to stop the display. Note: this is NOT done by the terminal program; this is six pages of display built into the modem. All in all, it's an amazing piece of work. Note that I transferred this message using the new modem. When I uploaded this message as 6K of text at 14,400 baud to a local service, I got a transfer rate reported at 1657 CPS, which is excellent. Paul Robinson - TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM ------------------------------ From: mike@dcs.umd.edu (Michael J. Barr) Subject: Send Suggestions For ISDN FAQ Date: 9 Jul 1993 14:29:07 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, Department of Telecommunications Hello, I am willing to donate my time to compiling and maintaining an ISDN FAQ. What types of questions should be addressed? Please send me a list of questions you think should be addressed in such a document. I will attempt to include answers to all reasonable questions in an attempt to build one thorough, standard place for basic information about ISDN. If there are questions to which I cannot quickly find answers, I will solicit help in answering them from the readers/posters of comp.dcom.isdn. Thanks, Michael Barr mike@dcs.umd.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jul 93 08:58:25 EDT From: Bonnie J Johnson Subject: EIA/TIA Standards Pat one of the netters asked how to obtain EIA/TIA Standards- The address and phone numbers I have in the front of my Standards Manual is as follows: Electronic Industries Association Engineering Department 2001 Penna. N>W> Washington, DC 20006 US & Canada 800-854-7179 International 714-261-1455 Good day, bj ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 19:28:23 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Subject: Talk Ticket Distributors Wanted The Talk Ticket program is now officially underway, and distributors for the product are needed ASAP. While this is not limited to those of you who tested the product, my feeling is those of you who purchased and used the sample tickets will have the best understanding of the service and be able to correctly market them. There is no multi-level marketing, no 'distributor fees', no territorial arrangements, no contracts or other gimmicks. You won't be working for anyone as an employee or contractor. No one cares or will ask what you do with the profit from the sale of the tickets. You need not provide identification or SSN, etc for the purchase of the tickets. The several dozen of you who purchased the samples have seen how they work and that there are no gimmicks or hidden costs, and I thank the several of you who responded with summaries this past week in response to my request for same about a week ago. Tickets are now available in Spanish or English, with appropriate lang- uage response from the computer in either case. Tickets are available in $5, $10, $20 and $50 denominations. Pick the selection and inventory you want or a 'standard selection' (with emphasis on the five and ten dollar denominations) will be sent to you. The minimum order is $2500 in assorted tickets for $1875. My suggestion for an assortment would be 50 tickets @ $20 = 1000 50 tickets @ $10 = 500 200 tickets @ $ 5 = 1000 You see that your profit is 25 percent on this; if you wish to sell these as a courtesy at no profit to yourself the tickets would be sold for $15, $7.50 and $3.75 respectively. Or you might wish to keep fifteen percent profit for yourself and give ten percent off to the buyers, or the other way around. This is your choice; don't tell me about it. Checks for $1875 should be made payable to TELECOM Digest and mailed to my attention. Be sure to indicate the desired mix of tickets (and if to be in English or Spanish) to total the $2500. For your protection and mine, the tickets will be sent registered mail and will NOT be activated in the computer until the receipt is returned or we talk on the phone, etc. If outside the USA, your check should be 'payable in US Dollars'. So, if you have ever wanted to be in the long distance reseller business, here is your chance to get started, with a nice little profit for yourself. Call or write with questions. TELECOM Digest 2241 West Howard Street #208 Chicago, IL 60645 Phone: 312-465-2700 Fax: 312-743-0002 PS: If you are not familiar with these and want to try them out first, the sample $2 tickets are available for $2 each. Or you can have ten $2 tickets for $15, a $5 ticket for $4.50 or a $10 ticket for $9. They are good for calls anywhere in the world by calling an 800 number, then entering the ticket serial number and the number you are calling. They work the same as any telephone calling card except they are prepaid. PAT ------------------------------ From: phantom@cs.umd.edu (Scott Perry) Subject: Phone Noises, Frequencies and Durations Date: 9 Jul 1993 20:12:09 GMT Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742 I am looking to reproduce various noises you hear over the phone with my computer (I miss Cat's Meow on the apple). I've found a few things via the FAQ (touch tones) and searching some FTP sites (quarter, nickle, dime tones), but this leaves a lot left. What I would like is the frequency and durations necessary to reproduce various things like busy signals, doo-doo-doo "We're sorry ..." messages, etc. Basically anything I can find. If anybody can point me to info (preferably electronic), it would be most appreciated. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 16:11:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard C. Harrison Subject: Computerized Phone Directory Sites The Beth Israel Hospital of Boston is implementing a computerized telephone directory system which will integrate operational processes concerned with telephone, voicemail, and pager installation as well as directory updating and electronic mail. We seek sites who have accomplished a high degree of directory integration who are willing to discuss their strategic and tactical approach with us. We are particularly interested in speaking with the Director of Telecommunications or other knowledgable individual by telephone with the possibility of a later site visit. Beth Israel Hospital in Boston is an independently owned Harvard-affiliated teaching hospital with 452 beds, a $30 M research effort and a personnel complement of 4,000. We are a decentralized multibuilding urban campus. If you know of an organization which is a good match to the above let me know. Thanks for your help. Please reply directly to: Dick Harrison harrison@bih.harvard.edu tel: (617) 278-1445 FAX: (617) 731-1492 ------------------------------ From: helliott@digi.lonestar.org (Holly Elliott) Subject: ISDN/SS7 Test Equipment Needed Organization: DSC Communications, Plano Tx. Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 15:50:24 GMT I am looking for test equipment for ISDN and SS7, preferably in the same unit. We currently are using a Tekelec 32, but it will not meet our needs. What we want is a unit (PC card?) that will allow us to build ISDN/SS7 messages in software, and the recieved messages must also be software readable. The test unit must handle Primary Rate ISDN, Layer 3 ISDN and Layer 4 SS7, and ISDN Code Set 6. If you have any leads on who I should contact, please respond via e-mail, as I do not regularly read this group. Thanks in advance. Holly Elliott DSC Communications Email: helliott@dsccc.com ------------------------------ Subject: Audiovox CTX-3200M Programming Information Available Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1993 11:51:21 -0500 From: Bill Nickless I think I have figured out some of the programming options for a CTX-3200M cellular phone; things like how to turn on a beep every minute for the first five minutes, power on into locked mode, and so forth. I am willing to send out my information via email, or contribute what I know to the TELECOM Archives. (It seems that it's of too little general interest for publication in TELECOM Digest itself.) This message is being sent to flush out other Audiovox cellular telephone users; there are some features I don't yet know how to activate, and would like to compare notes with others who may have tried something similar. Of course, if someone has authoritative information, that would be great too. Bill Nickless System Support Group +1 708 252 7390 ------------------------------ From: Seng-Poh Lee Subject: Interesting Use of ANI at Ballys Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 10:36:07 -0400 (EDT) Ballys/Holiday Matrix Health Clubs have a nationwide 800 number for locating clubs near your vicinity. When you call it, the system determines your location via ANI, and then routes your call automatically to the nearest club. It does this without announcing the fact. You just dial the number, and the nearest club picks up. Seng-Poh Lee ------------------------------ From: nstmar@hasler.ascom.ch (Martin Steinmann, NVES, Tel. x1244) Subject: DXI Interface Reply-To: nstmar@hasler.ascom.ch Organization: Ascom Hasler AG Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:54:12 GMT There is a DXI Interface defined by the SMDS Interest Group (SIG). Can anyone tell me from where I could obtain the respective document? Martin J. Steinmann ascom Ltd., Switzerland ------------------------------ From: albert@INSL.McGill.CA (Albert Pang) Subject: Unitel Access Phone Number in Toronto? Organization: INSL, McGill University, Montreal, Canada Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 04:23:38 GMT I am an UNITEL subscriber in Montreal, PQ. I will be travelling to Toronto, Ont. this weekend. I was wondering if I get the local access number of UNITEL in Toronto, will I still be able to make long distance phone call via UNITEL. Can somebody give me the access number of UNITEL in Toronto? Thanks, Albert Pang Information Networks & Systems Lab McGill University Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [Moderator's Note: Did you try calling Unitel and asking them? PAT] ------------------------------ From: tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) Subject: Do Operators Interrupt Modem Calls? Organization: York University Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 20:01:59 -0400 Today I was logged on to a remote computer via modem for three hours. A friend needed to contact me, and getting repeated busy signals, asked an operator for an "emergency" interrupt. The operator said there was "static" on the line and did I "have a computer"? Nothing was done, apart from me getting some garbage once. Can operators constructively and in a technically competent way interrupt modem calls? Or are they "scared" to? (Yeah, I know, get a second line.) tony@nexus.yorku.ca = Tony Wallis, York University, Toronto, Canada [Moderator's Note: There is nothing different about a modem line than any other from the operator's point of view. The operator can do an emergency interuppt on most lines (there is a class of service in some telcos which prevent even the operator from interuppting if the line is set up that way), but the operator can only speak in a human voice, thus is unable to communicate with a modem. In this case, the operator make an intelligent decision about what she heard, and reached the conclusion that regardless of how long she stayed on the line asking for a human being to respond to her, it was not likely to occur. The only thing that would occur, given enough persistence by the operator would be the complete garbaging-out of the connection and the abandon- ment by the computer operator (yourself) of the call. In other words, whether or not you wished to acknowlege the emergency interuppt (which by law you are supposed to do if the calling party claims an emergency exists), you'd be the loser and the interuppter would be the winner. So the general rule of thumb is 'operators cannot interuppt computer lines'. Not without (as an end result) causing the whole connection to get dropped by the person making the computer call from exasperation. Had there been human beings on the line, they would have understood the operator's inquiry and said 'yes' or 'no', but *willingly* given up their connection had they chosen to do so or *willingly* refused to do so. The poor guy with a computer/modem on the line would get no choice, nor even be cognizant of the operator's presence on the line other than seeing his 45 minute download getting garbaged-out in the final minutes. So generally when the operator hears 'that static', she knows enough to back off and tell the caller 'I cannot interuppt the computer.' PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 20:04:41 -0600 Reply-To: rickie@trickie.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca From: rickie@trickie.ualberta.ca Subject: CDMA Technology Texts At the watering hole tonite, we were discussing the current TDMA and CDMA technologies. We decided that better technical information on the relatively new CDMA cellular technology would be an asset to further our understanding. Would someone please recommend a good set of reference texts that we could obtain to enlighten us? Thanks in advance. Richard Nash Edmonton, Alberta Canada T6K 0E8 UUCP: rickie@trickie.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca Amateur Radio: ve6bon.ampr.ab.ca [192.75.200.15] ------------------------------ From: bigmac@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mark Christopher Macsurak) Subject: 700 Number Information Wanted Organization: Stanford University, California Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 05:50:22 GMT Because I am moving around so much, I am thinking of getting a (700) number which sounds basically like a permanent-call-forward. That way I can tell my friends and not have to change business cards so often. I haven't really seen any (700) numbers though. Do these exist? How convenient are they? I'd like to hear from anyone who uses them. Also, I heard if you have AT&T's 700 number, and a person must then dial 10ATT0 before they can reach you (how are they supposed to know that). An alternative would be to rent/purchase a voice mailbox -- which is sort of a permanent number that I can check on every day. Which is a better way to get a permanent number? I plan on being in the San Francisco area for at least the next few years, with some periods in New York City. Please e-mail me or post if you think others may be interested. Thanks a lot. bigmac@leland.stanford.edu [Moderator's Note: The '700 number program' you are referring to is the AT&T Easy Reach service. AT&T is the only company offering the service in quite the way they do. Because the 700 number space is unique in the sense that all carriers get complete use of the entire range of numbers, it is possible that two totally unrelated parties could have the same 700-xxx-yyyy number, thus the requirement that the caller fully qualify the number with the prepending of 10288 when dialing unless the phone line is defaulted to AT&T as the long distance carrier. I admit it is quite a nuisance. I signed up for it a long time ago but rarely use it. And either the caller or yourself have to pay 25 cents for *each minute* of conversation during the day (less at night) even if it is a local call. The owner of an Easy Reach number can forward calls to wherever he will he at, so in this respect it makes it easy for your callers to reach you *provided they default to AT&T or know they have to use 10288*. Gotcha! Perhaps a better solution would be 800 service from Cable and Wireless, as this permits the caller to dial from any phone without regard to the default carrier. C&W allows the owner to forward the 800 number to wherever he might be at, but the trade off is you pay for each call (no option to let the caller pay the 25 cents per minute) and you pay for the call-forwarding option. Still another option (here comes today's commercial folks!) is to use a service like 'Telepassport', which while intended mainly to to be a '700 Easy Reach like' service internationally, *can* do the same thing domestically in the USA. Your caller would dial your 800 number on our switch; we'd flip it back out to you at the number you told us to call, and for a lot less money than C&W I might add. For details on Telepassport, contact me direct: ptownson@eecs.nwu.edu. PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #460 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa23726; 9 Jul 93 23:47 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA06540 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Fri, 9 Jul 1993 21:28:42 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA03031 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Fri, 9 Jul 1993 21:28:00 -0500 Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 21:28:00 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307100228.AA03031@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #461 TELECOM Digest Fri, 9 Jul 93 21:28:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 461 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (E. Rohwedder) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (John J. Butz) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (A. Schultz) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (John R. Levine) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (David Leibold) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (Carl Moore) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (David G. Lewis) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (Paolo Bellutta) Re: Dialing "1" First (David J. Greenberger) Re: Dialing "1" First (Justin Greene) Introduction to WilTel (was Re: Information on Public Carriers) (R McGuire) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 19:06:36 EDT From: Ekkehard.Rohwedder@KURT.TIP.CS.CMU.EDU Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Here is the rest of my story about trying to reach a fax machine at the 13-digit number 011 +49 6131 XXX 4555: I call the AT&T long distance operator at 00 and explain my problem. She transfers me to her supervisor, who appears to understand what I need and calls the operator in Germany. It rings for a while until a busy signal comes back. Supervisor: "The operators must be busy." Me: "Oh, I do not think so -- it is 6:30 a.m. local time there." Since this faxing business turns out much more involved than just calling 00, giving them my number, and them putting me right on a T1-pipe (which the service technician was able to do), I decide to revise my fax (putting everything in that I might otherwise have sent at a later time). When I call 00 an hour later, there is no need to be transferred to a supervisor. However, it takes a while for the operator to get set up. Strangely, she also asks me for the town that I want to connect to in Germany (which is Mainz). (I wonder whether the fact that the area phone prefixes in Germany vary in length, and can be up to four digits is confusing to US operators.) Again, nobody answers on the first try. The second time we finally do get the international operator in Germany. The AT&T operator spells the name of the city and the number I want to reach. The German operator dials the number locally, then reports back: "There is a fax machine answering." Me: "That's exactly what I want." Finally, I get put through to Germany, hear the answer tone of the phone and can start my fax. While it was kind of fun (I have never needed to use operator services), and also supposedly at direct dial rates (I will check my next phone bill), this is also a major pain! Count the blessings of international direct dialing to 12 digits and less! It also seems that the international operators at Telekom are understaffed (humans are expensive, machines are cheap -- too bad if you need a human). Ekkehard ------------------------------ From: John.J.Butz@att.com Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 09:51:14 EDT Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Ekkehard.Rohwedder@KURT.TIP.CS.CMU.EDU writes: >The bottom line is this: >Local U.S. exchanges only have the capacity to store 12-digit numbers >(i.e. in my case +49 6131 XXX 455). This turns out to be an illegal >phone number in Germany, which causes a congest signal to be sent back >to the US (the beep), which then is turned into a busy signal here. Let's not blame AT&T or the local telcos for 13 digits in Germany, they happen to be playing according to the rules. For those of you familiar with the CCITT (or whatever it's called these days), 12 digits plus a country specific international dialing prefix (011 for IDDD and 01 for operator assisted here in the US) is the current world standard for international dialing. (Recommendation E.163) Targeted for a 12/31/1996, 23:59 Universal time (I think) implementation, the CCITT has recommended a new numbering plan, E.164 ("for the ISDN era", whatever that means). This dialing plan specifies a 15 digit number that consists of a country code, a national destionation code (city/area code) and a subscriber/line number. All equipment manufacturers and service providers are encouraged by the CCITT to meet the above date for E.164 implementation. Back to intl phone numbers > 12 digits...... I understand there are a few places in the world where an international phone number > 12 digits is not uncommon. In Germany, the American military bases use this kind of numbering plan. Used for what? I don't know, but AT&T CAN complete calls to these and other numbers that don't follow the current CCITT numbering plan, by operator assistance. Since AT&T plans meet the target implementation date, its quite likely that on January 1, 1997 your direct dial call to the fax in Germany will go thru! J "ADC" Butz ER700 Sys Eng jbutz@hogpa.att.com AT&T - CCS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 19:06:44 EDT From: kityss@ihlpe.att.com Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Organization: AT&T >Maybe this 13-digit problem is not yet so well known or widespread. You are right it is a "new" problem. CCITT (The UN body that sets world wide telecommunications standards, I think they are now TSS-ITU) Recommendation E.164 "Numbering Plan for the ISDN ERA" defines the maximum allowed length phone number (consisting of a Country Code + National Number - CC+NN) as 15 digits. [Note this does not include prefixes such as "011", 10XXX, etc.] HOWEVER - E.165 defines 12/31/1996 as the date AFTER which all "conforming" networks should be able to handle "E.164 format numbers". Prior to 12/31/1996, E.163 defines a maximum length CC+NN of 12 digits!!! What appears to be happening is that some countries are instituting E.164 format numbers prior to 12/31/1996. The technician was right -- there is no guarantee that "local", PBX, or even IXC equipment will handle more than 12 digits before then. [Actually there is probably no guarantee after 12/31/1996, but I certainly wouldn't count on it before then!!!] I would guess that since CCITT set a specific date (12/31/1996) that the US is not the only place where switching equipment (including PBXs) would have problems with CC+NN of more than 12 digits. >[Moderator's Note: But I have never heard of this before; that a > number which requires thirteen digits to dial cannot be reached > directly. We in the USA have had IDDD in many exchanges for > twenty years, and in almost all exchanges for several years now. > No one has yet raised this point??? PAT] Like I said -- new problem. No country has had CC+NN over 12 digits before now. Arnette Schultz kityss@ihlpe.att.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 10:55 EDT From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Organization: I.E.C.C. >Local U.S. exchanges only have the capacity to store 12-digit numbers I read somewhere (probably right here in Telecom) that the CCITT has long said that no number should be longer than 12 digits total. But due to the explosion of ever-longer numbers in places that use the CCITT's, or whatever it's called now, quaint numbering plan, the maximum is being increased to 15 digits. > +49 6131 XXX 4555 fails > +49 6131 XXX 450 works This is probably a company's PBX, where the digits after the XXX are decoded entirely in the PBX. I'd expect the main number to be +49 6131 XXX 0. You might tell the people you're calling that they should assign shorter extension numbers or they won't be callable from the U.S. Alternatively, they could try to get a two-digit rather than three-digit number from Telekom. In most places outside North America the length isn't really a problem because calls are routed incrementally and, except in the fanciest new electronic exchanges, the whole number is never buffered in one place. Here in North America, we use 11 digit numbers as the Lord told us to, and numbers will only get longer when She changes Her mind sometime around the year 2050. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl [Moderator's Note: I thought you were in charge of making those decisions John; and now you say its your mother-in-law? :) PAT] ------------------------------ Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck From: woody Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 11:04:01 -0400 >[Moderator's Note: It is true that when direct dial is not possible >for some reason, the AT&T operators will complete the call at direct >dial rates, waiving the surcharge for operator assistance. But I have >never heard of this before; that a number which requires thirteen >digits to dial cannot be reached directly. We in the USA have had IDDD >in many exchanges for twenty years, and in almost all exchanges for >several years now. No one has yet raised this point??? PAT] Actually, the international standard limit for international telephone numbers (ie. the country code, and following digits needed to complete a call) is 12, until the international limit expands to 15 in a few years (referred to by CCITT, actuall ITU-TS, as "Time T"). Thus, the few countries having 13 digits are in violation of the international digit length, thus requiring manual operator processing in many cases. Some exchanges may be set up to handle more digits already, or could be easily changed to do so. All this should be in ITU recommendations like E.163 or E.164. David Leibold djcl@internex.io.org dleibold1@attmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 10:47:25 EDT From: Carl Moore Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Recently, I noticed the pattern of using __0 (where the "__" can be any number of digits) as the main number, with __xx (or even __xxx?) being the extension for the fax line. In the message I am responding to, I have noticed this pattern in: +49 6131 XXX 450 voice +49 6131 XXX 4555 fax A complete telephone number (excluding the international access code but including the country code) is 1 xxx xxx xxxx, in other words 11 digits only, in country code 1. Also: You mention the Czech Republic (along with Germany and Austria) as having some 13-digit telephone numbers, including the country code. What about the Slovak Republic (i.e., the other part of the former Czechoslovakia)? ------------------------------ From: deej@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (david.g.lewis) Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Organization: AT&T Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:11:08 GMT ITU-T (Formerly CCITT) Recommendation E.164 on telecommunications numbering specifies that the maximum length of an international number be 12 digits, consisting of a one, two, or three digit country code, and a national significant number of any length such that the length of the country code plus the national significant number not exeed 12 digits. Therefore, in countries where the CC is two digits, a NSN of 11 or digits (such as that above) will cause the total length to exceed 12 digits, which is not consistent with E.164 and therefore can not be expected to be dialable across national boundaries. The CCITT (now ITU-TSS) has recommended an expansion of international numbers from 12 to 15 digits at what they call "Time T", defined as December 31, 1996. As of that date, all switches should be able to handle international numbers of up to 15 digits in length. Before that time, 12 is the maximum. I suspect that no one has yet raised this point because this point has only recently appeared with the introduction of 11-digit national significant numbers in Germany. Frankly, I don't know why Telekom (DBT) has assigned 11 digit NSNs, unless they're unable to expand the codespace any other way (perhaps due to the capabilities, or lack thereof, of the equipment in the eastern portion of the country?) Anyone from Telekom or anyone in Germany able to shed any light on this? Disclaimer: I don't work on numbering for a living. David G Lewis AT&T Bell Laboratories david.g.lewis@att.com or !att!goofy!deej Switching & ISDN Implementation ------------------------------ From: bellutta@ohsu.EDU (Paolo Bellutta) Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Organization: Oregon Health Sciences University Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 20:29:26 GMT Well, when I dial my friends in Italy I dial 13 to 14 digits, and I use AT&T as long distance company. No problems. I still get the satellite link most of the time while calling back they get the cable instead, but I have no problems in dialing international. Not even with the calling card from a payphone. > in many exchanges for twenty years, and in almost all exchanges for > several years now. No one has yet raised this point??? PAT] It looks fishy to me too... Paolo Bellutta -- bellutta@ohsu.edu - tel: (503) 494-4804 BICC - OHSU - 3181 SW Sam Jackson Park rd. - Portland, OR [Moderator's Note: But, as our other correspondents today point out, this *is* a real condition which exists at the present time. Yet I must wonder, how are *you* managing to call Italy doing it? (Now more suspicious ...) How about telling us the sequence of numbers you dial; let's see if its *really* more than 12 or if there is some local code on your end, etc that is being counted as well. PAT] ------------------------------ From: d.greenberger@cornell.edu (David J. Greenberger) Subject: Re: Dialing "1" First Reply-To: d.greenberger@cornell.edu Organization: Young Israel of Cornell Date: 9 Jul 93 21:41:34 GMT dwn@dwn.ccd.bnl.gov (Dave Niebuhr) writes: > 395-6701: Disconnected > 1-395-6701: Cannot be completed as dialed > 1-516-395-6701: Cannot be completed as dialed > 10288-1-516-395-6701: Cannot be completed as dialed That doesn't really show anything. It merely indicates that you can't dial a number in 516 from another number in 516 with the area code. Try calling a number in a different area code with a 1. In other words, even though in 212-land I must dial a 1 before an area code, I would end up with the same results as you did, simply because the phone system doesn't like redundant area codes. David J. Greenberger (212) 595-2901 d.greenberger@cornell.edu ------------------------------ From: jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) Subject: Re: Dialing "1" First Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 23:54:21 GMT > Here in Maryland (C&P, 301), a leading 1 is required for a toll call, > but if it is included on a non-toll call, the call goes through > without any whining from the switch. Dialing my office from home is a > local call, but I can dial 1-301-428-5384 and the call goes through. Does it go through as a local call or over your primary carrier? I often will dial 10xxx for a local call (for my own weird reasons) and the call is billed to the long distance carrier. > behavior. Local calls *from* 202 to 301 or 703 do get denied if > preceded by a 1, however. Maybe the congresscritters NEED unnecessary > regulation in their lives? Some areas (like Colorado, have areas which are localish; you dial 1-xxx-xxxx to connect, but it is a metered service (local long distance). Anything out of you LATA (?) requires a 1. They don't have to tell you when the call will cost extra but they do ... Justin ------------------------------ From: russ_mcguire@wiltel.com (Russ McGuire) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 07:57:03 -0500 Subject: Introduction to WilTel (was Re: Information on Public Carriers) Nadeem Haider (nadeem@alpha.acast.nova.edu) writes: > Can anyone recommend how I may go about finding information on > public carriers? > I need information (hardware required, procedures, etc..) on > setting up communication links for a dedicated WAN. I forsee using > dedicated leased lines and would like to know who are the major > players in the service provider game. > Any information will be greatly appreciated. I (almost) hate to turn this into an advertisement, but you asked the question, and since we don't have AT&T's advertising budget, you probably don't already know these things ... WilTel is a full service telecommunications company that offers data, voice, and video products and services nationwide. WilTel owns and operates a nationwide digital fiber-optic network, one of only four in the United States, with access to more than 30,000 system miles. Historically, we are an industry leader in private line services. We have also been known as the "carrier's carrier", providing bandwidth on our network to virtually every other US carrier for their private line and switched services. Over the past several years, WilTel has established itself as a leader in virtual data networking. We provided the first public Frame Relay service approximately six months before our competitors. We are also preparing to be among the first to offer ATM-based services. Since you are considering carriers to establish a WAN, I would strongly recommend that you consider frame relay and ATM services. Frame relay and ATM provide: logical connectivity to multiple remote locations over a single physical interface; the dynamic allocation of capacity to support simultaneous applications; the ability to oversubscribe network interface connections to take advantage of the intermittent nature of data transactions and reduce network expenditures; automatic routing around network failures to reduce expenditures on geographically diverse facilities, the ability to sustain a burst above the committed information rate to improve throughput and optimize response times even during busy hours; and the consolidation of traffic over a single network to provide maximum economies of scale and the simplification of network design, management and operation. All this adds up to an improved network price performance ratio. Whether you continue to consider private lines as the appropriate technology for your application, or you decide to pursue advanced virtual data networking options, such as frame relay and ATM, I hope you will consider WilTel as your carrier. Our sales office which is closest to you is: Orlando: 407-422-2761 or 800-864-4123 Some of our differentiators include: We are the only network provider with a nationwide fiber optic network that is focused on business applications (as opposed to our primary competitors who must dedicate enormous resources to support residential customers). We provide industry leading network service management tools via the WilView family of products. This is particularly true for private line services where we offer a single, consistent X-Windows/Motif GUI tool for near-real-time circuit alarm monitoring, historical circuit performance (ESF) reporting, graphical mapping of actual circuit routing, trouble ticket entry and tracking, service order tracking, and circuit inventory. All of this available via your current workstation/PC equipment, whether DOS, Windows, OS/2, Mac, NeXTstep, Sun, HP, DEC, RS/6000, etc. Basically any device that can support X11R4 and TCP/IP. We can provide a full range of solutions. As previously mentioned, we offer private line and frame relay services and will shortly offer ATM-based services. We are also the nation's leading distributor of Northern Telecom PBX and Key System equipment, as well as similar voice-based CPE from a variety of other vendors. We are also a large distributor of data CPE from Synoptics, 3COM, and a wide variety of other vendors. We also service the broadcast television networks for carrying regularly scheduled and special event television transmissions from around the country to the networks' mixing and uplink sites. We have carried the last several Super Bowls and World Series (whats the plural for series???) as well as the most recent Democratic and Republican conventions across our fiber optic network. We have also built a nationwide switch platform for business-oriented 1+ and 800 services. Anyone wanting to know more about WilTel can e-mail me or phone WilTel at 1-800-364-5113. Russ McGuire 918-588-2836 WilTel, Inc. PO Box 21348 russ_mcguire@wiltel.com Tulsa, OK 74121 [Moderator's Note: Thanks for the lengthy description. I'm sure a lot of readers -- myself included -- did not know that much about WilTel, and I appreciate your getting us aquainted with it. PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #461 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa14503; 10 Jul 93 19:55 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA15762 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Sat, 10 Jul 1993 17:21:18 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA31221 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Sat, 10 Jul 1993 17:20:35 -0500 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 17:20:35 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307102220.AA31221@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #462 TELECOM Digest Sat, 10 Jul 93 17:20:30 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 462 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Cell Phone Fraud Arrest (Palm Beach Post via John S. Hickey) USTA Seeks Changes in Calling Card Regulations (Comm. Daily via Les Reeves) New Telecom Journal Needs Writers (Jane Fraser) How Can One Dial a US 1-800 Number From Canada? (David B. Perrussel) "Please Dial the 12-Digit Number at the Tone..." (Paul Robinson) Yet Another Incident at a COCOT (Paul Robinson) Network Documentation; Change and Problem Management (Armin Schweizer) I Just Got Scammed (Vince Grove) Questions About Cable TV and Telephone Relationships (Thomas L. Atzenrath) Telecommunications Billing Analysis Programs: Are There Any? (Clif Baker) What Other Orange Card Abbreviations? (Carl Moore) Three Years and Four Months After Full Cutover (Carl Moore) Can Hear But Can't Talk on International Call (Gerrold T. Sithe) SLIP Information Needed (Todd W. Carter) TAP Spec For Beepers (Jerry Whiting) Help: Telco Line Problem With v.42 Modem (Bruce D. Nelson) Conversion From UTM to Geographical Coordinates (Samir Soliman) Some Additional Thoughts About Western Union (Jeffrey Jonas) Do We Have a Theme Song? (Paul Robinson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John S. Hickey Subject: Cell Phone Fraud Arrest Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 11:46:52 -0700 (PDT) A front page story in {The Palm Beach Post}, 12 June 1993 dateline Miami, reports the arrest of seven men for cell phone fraud. Secret Service agents seized 75 illegally modified cellular phones, more than 700 cellular phone/serial number combinations, eight personal computers and numerous software programs used to transfer pirated numbers into cellular phones. Undercover Secret Service agents bought either software diskettes to clone cellular phones or cellular phones that already been cloned. Agent Jim Bauer of the Secret Service said "Some are saying it is the most significant cellular phone cases to date. It certainly is the largest in Florida". The seven men arrested face a maximum of 15 years in prison and $50,000 fine for each offense. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 12:08:50 -0400 (EDT) From: LESREEVES@delphi.com Subject: USTA Seeks Changes in Calling Card Regulations The United State Telephone Association (USTA) has asked the FCC to block calling card users who have unlisted phone numbers from using their cards unless they provide written authorization allowing the card issuer to release their billing name and address information to interexchange carriers. USTA claims that carriers are spending millions of dollars and wading through tons of paperwork tracking such information. {Communications Daily}, "Calling card users with unlisted numbers asked to disclose billing data," 7/9/93) [Moderator's Note: Someone is not doing their homework here. Since the beginning of divesture the FCC regulations have stated that having a non-pub number does *not* forbid the telco from giving out name and address data for billing purposes, and in fact local telcos are *required* to give this data for that limited purpose -- even to companies like Integratel -- on request. Even in the old days, a non-pub listing was not an impediment to inter-telco billing. Why does USTA suddenly feel they need another database (of signed authorizations from each individual) rather than continuing to use existing procedures? Or is it their member COCOT/AOS operators would love to get their hands on those AT&T customers with the scrambled card numbers; heretofore difficult/impossible to scam with high charges because they don't relate back to any actual phone number as written? FCC, please vote NO on this! PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 08:26:36 EDT From: fraser@ccl2.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: New Telecom Journal Needs Writers This item comes from John Lusa <0004910572@mcimail.com>. Ball State University's Center for Information and Communications Sciences (CICS), Muncie, Indiana, is launching a refereed journal, the ICS Journal. The CICS is a graduate level school turning out graduates in telecommunications, information sciences and networking management. The ICS Journal is soliciting original manuscripts from industry, technology and academia with a length between eight and fifteen double-spaced pages -- 2000 to 3500 words. Student papers will be accepted if the writers have an academic or industry sponsor. Topics can cover a wide range of networking, communications and information sciences issues: New Technologies Research studies Pilots/trials Student projects Systems integration International Beta test results Ergonomics and human factors Teaching/educational uses Regulation Video compression Strategic applications The editorial objective of this new publication is to help key management users keep abreast of changes in communications and information sciences for use in their companies and operations. For more information you can contact the editor -- Professor Richard Bellaver -- or his assistant -- Nicole -- at (317) 285-1827. By the way, I'm the editorial consultant for the ICS Journal and will be one of the referees. ------------------------------ From: DBP@ECL.PSU.EDU (David B Perrussel) Subject: How Can One Dial a US 1-800 Number From Canada? Date: 10 Jul 1993 03:25:18 GMT Organization: Penn State Engineering Computer Lab I'm posting this for a friend ... A friend in Canada wants to dial 1-800 numbers in the US from Canada but most of the time he cannot. I know there used to be a number in the US he could call to dial out 1-800 numbers but I forgot it. (I don' t even know if it is still running.) Please e-mail me because I don't use usenet/netnews that much. Thanks in advance. Dave Perrussel dbp@ecl.psu.edu [Moderator's Note: Please tell your friend that he can call USA 800 numbers *if the owner of the number wants to be called from Canada* by simply dialing the number in the usual way. If the call does not go through, then the USA subscriber *does not want* to pay for calls from Canadians. Certain carriers allow you to call the USA on your nickle, *then* continue on the USA side to an 800 number. But you must pay to get to the USA unless the owner of the 800 number has agreed to accept calls from international points. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 22:48:37 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Subject: "Please Dial the 12-Digit Number at the Tone ..." From: Paul Robinson Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA The problem that an international number longer than 12-digits cannot be dialed is a real one, and is historical in nature. I had the privilege of being in a switch room for a shift while we were doing some work in our office and we had to move into the switch room. One of the books sitting on top of an AT&T dimension PBX switch (about 6 1/2 feet tall and each of the bays was about 3 feet wide) was a programming manual for the switch. I think the manual is pre-divestiture, e.g. 1980 or so, so it didn't have features for 10xxx in the manual. Being bored, I picked up the manual and read from it. Some rather interesting things I noted: On a speed-dial or dedicated number dedicated to a trunk (such as a "hot line" number which is dialed when a phone is picked up), a U.S. number consists of a three, four or five digit intra-PBX number, a seven digit local number, a ten-digit local number, a 1 + seven digit toll number, or a 1 + ten digit toll number. Of the same class, an international number may be up to 15 digits in length; if we allow three digits for the 011 code, this means that the switch can't handle an international number longer than 12 digits. Paul Robinson - TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 07:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Subject: Yet Another Incident at a COCOT From: Paul Robinson Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA The general temperature in the Washington, DC area has been hovering at or near the 100 degree mark. So when I was returning from a computer store in Vienna, VA, I decided to call a cab instead of walking some six blocks uphill. I went to a pay phone in front of the Safeway store there. The bank of three phones are all COCOTs. Often times a cab company will put a sticker on phones indicating their number. No such luck, this time. So I decided to dial 411 and get the number of the cab company. I picked up the phone, listened for dial tone and heard something I *never* hear from telephone company pay phones: "Please deposit 25 cents." I was rather surprised. (I had another incident with a COCOT in Northern Virginia last week; I never tried calling directory assistance from that phone.) I don't mind paying for a phone call. I *do* mind being charged more than the telephone company. So I went inside and asked the store manager for the number, and she was nice enough to write it down. I then went outside, put a quarter in the phone and called the cab company. Some people claim that the reason COCOTs charge more for some things is that they are unable to get the same service from the phone company as it provides to itself. I don't know if that's true; I do know that C&P's pay phones don't charge to call local directory assistance. Such a shame. If these sort of rates keep up, I may just install a wats extender similar to Patrick Townson's plan for overseas callers. I dial a 1-800 number that I have terminating into one of the four phone lines in my house. When my phone answers, I punch in a code and the number I'm at. I hang up and my phone calls me back with dial tone allowing me to make whatever calls I want. (Net cost would be for 20 seconds of WATS time, since I have unlimited local service.) Well, some of the COCOTs try to defeat that by making their phones outgoing only. But with the problems with these type phones it's making me mad enough to want to go that route, if I had to make a lot of local calls while traveling in the metro area. Paul Robinson - TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM [Moderator's Note: Telepassport is a bit more involved than a 'WATS extender' but the idea is similar. The reason COCOTS are frequently one-way outgoing is because unlike Genuine Bell, the intelligence is in the phone. Many COCOTS can be programmed remotely using a modem to call them. The owners have problems with snoopy people who like to play with their modem and computer at home to liberate the COCOT of its incessant demands for more money. (Gee, just like your Virtual Moderator, eh? ... what's needed on Usenet is a COCOM -- Customer Owned, Coin Operated Moderator. Deposit $3.75 to see your article in the Digest with a customized, personalized note following. Or, as I say to my erstwhile west coast affiliate from time to time, "Ride 'em Cowboy! Yahoo!") :) PAT] ------------------------------ From: wasc@ciba-geigy.ch (Armin Schweizer) Subject: Network Documentation, Change and Problem Management Organization: Ciba-Geigy Ltd.,Basel,Switzerland Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 07:18:58 GMT dear colleagues, We are looking for improved capabilities for network documentation plus change management plus problem management (troubleticketing) tools for all type of networks. - who is offering such systems? - are you using such a system and have you (good) experience with it? - is there any tool integrating documentation of hierarchical networks as well as lan's and wan's into the same documentation system? - is the change management and problem tracking tool using this documentation database? - is the system fully graphic? - is there any system adding logical (layer 3 and/or 4) documentation to the pure physical layer doc? Thanks and kind regards, Armin R. Schweizer, CIBA-GEIGY AG, R1045.P.06, WRZ 4002 Basel / Switzerland phone: -41-61-697'79'46 ------------------------------ From: vinceg@bos.mcd.mot.com (Vince Grove) Subject: I Just Got Scammed Date: 10 Jul 93 19:19:51 GMT Organization: Motorola Microcomputer Division, Woburn, MA I seem to remember a scam described here some time ago. I received a collect call from a New England Telephone service representative. I was told the charges would be forwarded to NE Telephone. The service rep claimed that my line was being overheard on other phone lines in the area and they were checking it out. How does this scam work?! Vince Grove vinceg@bos.mcd.mot.com Moderator's Note: For starters, telco *never* calls anyone collect. Most telcos accept collect calls from anywhere; they never place collect calls. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 11:06:11 +0100 From: thomas@wwwors.wiwi.Uni-Wuppertal.DE Subject: Questions About Cable TV and Telephone Relationships Dear Sirs, as a member of the University of Wuppertal I should kindly ask for your assistance in solving the following problem: The development shows that data computer, telephone and cable television melt together. TV-cable-nets are used for computer transmission to reach every household. This enables informations to enter and leave homes. Telephone and to cable companies have chosen to cooperate in the delivery of services. "Interactive" television tasks are possible, i.e. screen shopping services, where catalogue models parade their wares at the viewer's command. To my knowledge American firms are testing the possibility of providing services by cable-information. There are cable-based services including for example on-demand movie and restaurant reviews, home shopping, bill paying etc. (GTE Corp. experiments in Ceritos, California, for example.) I am very interested in informations (points at articles, books, datas, or a contact person who can help me) regarding: a) electronic shopping in general; b) interactive service demands; c) the most recent developments in fusion television and datanets; Additional I need information about Comp-U-Card / Comp-U-Store. I need information in general and the adress from the service. Where can I get statistical data about the quantity of subscribers etc. ? Thanking you in advance for your attention, Thomas Ltzenrath ------------------------------ From: ba.cgb@RLG.Stanford.EDU (Clif Baker) Subject: Telecommunications Billing Analysis Programs: Are There Any? Organization: Research Libraries Group, Inc. Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 14:56:36 GMT Folks, Please e-mail me if you can point me in the right direction[s]. Essentially I'm attempting to replace the warm body I once had with a bit of automation. Thanks! Clif ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 14:20:31 EDT From: Carl Moore Subject: What Other Orange Card Abbreviations? I just got my latest Orange Card bill, which has calls made from various areas in Indiana and Illinois on my trip there. The only threee-character abbreviations I saw for the point of origin were 800, MAK, and BAL. Darn. (For those who don't know: MAK and BAL showed up on earlier bills, for calls originating in Delaware and northeastern Maryland, respectively.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 14:53:19 EDT From: Carl Moore Subject: Three Years and Four Months After Full Cutover After an area code split, there may be some signs left over with the old area code. I was in Illinois last month, and while driving from Danville toward Chicago on Illinois route 1, I entered Will County (also entering the 708 area, from 815) and found two signs displaying the 946 prefix; one sign had the 708 area code and the other had old area code 312. This happened three years and four months after the full cutover of 708. [Moderator's Note: Riding north on the elevated train in Chicago until recently one could read a sign painted on the side of a building (albiet a bit faded over the years) telling one to do business at a certain company on the north side; phone Edgewater 395. That would be 45 years after the cutover. The company is long out of business and the building with the sign has been abandoned (gutted and burned out) for quite a few years. PAT] ------------------------------ From: cc935@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gerrold T. Sithe) Subject: Can Hear But Can't Talk on International Call Date: 10 Jul 1993 19:03:13 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) I just switched to MCI from ATT. Now sometimes when I call internationally I can hear the other party fine but they can't hear me at all even though I can hear myself talking in the earpiece. I have two phones and a recording device connected, but I don't know if the problem is due to my equipment, my local telco, the foreign telco, or the long distance carrier. I would blame the carrier except the same thing happened on another line I have which uses Sprint. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 11:53:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Todd W. Carter Subject: SLIP Information Needed I'm looking for some basic to intermediate information on using a SLIP connection to the Internet. Is software required to do FTP, gopher, irc, etc., that I depended on from my host computer? If so, what are some recommendations? I've heard of slipdisk.zip. Are there any others? Is there a SLIP FAQ? The books I've seen on the Internet only give this topic a couple pages at most. Thanks for the help, Todd ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 00:52:44 PDT From: Jerry Whiting Subject: TAP Spec For Beepers I'd like to write a simple terminal app to send messages to alphanumeric pagers. The local beeper companies are somewhat vague about details but I've heard of a TAP spec. Is there code (Basic, C, etc.) floating around to do such a thing? Doesn't seem like I can do it from within ProComm+ (I can have it call my digital beeper though). What is and where can I get a copy of this rumored TAP spec? Thanks in advance for any and all enlightenment. Please respond via email. Jerry Whiting azalea@igc.org [Moderator's Note: You might check the Telecom Archives files which begin with the phrase 'ixo' and see if they are of any help. The archives is accessible using anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu. PAT] ------------------------------ Reply-To: usenet@eastman.rdcs.kodak.com From: nelson@titan.ppd.kodak.com (Bruce D. Nelson (67890)) Subject: Help: Telco Line Problem With v.42 Modem Date: 10 Jul 93 14:54:36 GMT Organization: Eastman Kodak Company Till about a week ago, the phone line I use with my US Robotics v.32/42 modem connected flawlessly with any other modem I called, locally or long distance. Now it refuses to connect at speeds > 2400 with many services and connects at 4400/14400 LAPM with some others. I connected the modem to my voice line and it works ok. So I called telco repair (Rochester Telephone). They "tested" the line and said it was ok. They also said that the line wasn't guaranteed to carry data calls. Since there's no "trouble" from their position, they said they can't do anything about the problem. Do any of you know the "magic words" needed to get it fixed? Any conjectures as to what might be wrong? Thanks, Bruce Nelson | Phone: (716) 726-7890 Rochester Distributed Computer Services | Internet: nelson@kodak.com Eastman Kodak Company | Rochester, NY 14652-3302 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 19:12:15 -0700 From: Samir Soliman Subject: Conversion From UTM to Geographical Coordinates Does anyone know how the conversion from UTM to geographical coordinates is done? Samir Soliman ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 17:59:11 EDT From: jeffj%jiji@krf.jvnc.net (Jeffrey Jonas) Subject: More Thoughts About Western Union > [Moderator's Note: Western Union is desparately trying to stay in > business. I can't blame them, but the handwriting is on the wall. I forgot if I ever sent you the article telling how my grandfather was a telegraph opertor for Western Union and taught himself how to use the teletype. I used to work across the street from the N.Y. Western Union building. It still speaks of a magnificance long ago -- the tall vaulted entrance, the brass doors, the elevator banks. My cousin is still poked in the ribs for letting her sentimentality get in the way and not selling her W.U. stock in time. > Just yesterday I received a telegram from someone ... a real, actual > telegram. How was it delivered -- by a person? I thought there was no more telegram delivery services. Did he/she wear the funny uniform like the doormen with the ropes on the shoulders and all? The only time I ever received a telegram was at my bar-mitsvah from family that could not attend. It started something like "imph gurna grnk". Not being familiar with e-mail at the time, it took me a while to notice that the message was after the routing codes and header information. > The message was important enough they wanted to contact me ASAP. I had > to feel embarassed for the sender in a way. :( It was a much older > person who contacted me by the way. PAT] A person "much" older than you. Imagine that :-) Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix.com [Moderator's Note: No, you did not send the article, and I hope you will do so soon. Yes, the WUTCO Building in New York is a treasure; it remains from an era most of you can only dream about and hope that it will return some day. They don't deliver telegrams any longer. They called me and said to pick up email from any agent close to me, so I went to the Devon-Western currency exchange. The woman there retrieved it from email, printed it on the printer and handed it to me. The 'much older person' is a 66 year old cousin who was eager and proud to announce that her grandchild had graduated from high school; a grand- child who probably never heard of Western Union, :( sniff ... once the second largest company in the USA after AT&T. I have an article around here somewhere taken from a feature story which appeared in the {Chicago Tribune} in 1912 about a man being honored by WU as a long time telegrapher employee of the company (that year) who was the operator on duty here the night of the Great Fire in October, 1871 which I will print if I do more WU history anytime soon. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 23:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Subject: Do We Have a Theme Song? From: Paul Robinson Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA It just occurred to me that this newsgroup needs something to distinguish it from all the others. I just thought, as important as telephony and telecommunications is, that maybe we need to adopt some song as the "Theme Song" of TELECOM Digest. But which one? What's a fairly "good" song about telephones? I note that the regular use of fax machines is so new that I can't think of one being referenced in a song. Jim Croce's "Operator" is about a guy who ties up an operator for five minutes trying to make up his mind whether to call some people. Since using an operator to place a call these days is rare, it's a little dated, as would a song from the early 1900s, "Hello Central Give me No Man's Land." A group released the famous "Jenny/867-5309" which is simply about some guy deciding to call his girlfriend. It doesn't really say much about telephones. The same objection I think can be raised toward Steely Dan's "Ricky Don't Lose That Number." Glenn Campbell's "Wichita Lineman" isn't too bad, but it's about the worries of someone who has to fix the equipment; it doesn't touch on people who _use_ phone service. It's sort of a tossup among several. The Electric Light Orchestra released a song which is, I believe called either "Telephone" or "Hello". But it's a rather sad song about someone trying to reach someone who doesn't answer. In the interim, e.g. until we get some other nominations, I'll put in my vote for one. To this end, I nominate the song by The Orlons ("Wah! The Watusi") called "Don't hang up." Paul Robinson - TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM [Moderator's Note: Why me, Lord? Why do I get this kind of email? PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #462 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa15908; 10 Jul 93 21:15 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA05127 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Sat, 10 Jul 1993 18:48:15 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA08028 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Sat, 10 Jul 1993 18:47:32 -0500 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 18:47:32 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307102347.AA08028@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #463 TELECOM Digest Sat, 10 Jul 93 18:47:30 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 463 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: Telecom in China (Cyrill Vatomsky) Re: Kerberized Cellular Phones (Andrew Marc Greene) Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (system@garlic.sbs.com) Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (Steve Forrette) Re: 811 in California (was Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511) (J. Greene) Re: 811 to Reach Telco Business Offices (Lauren Weinstein) Re: 811 to Reach Telco Business Offices (Carl Moore) Re: Switching Red/Green to Black/Yellow (Rob Levandowski) Re: Switching Red/Green to Black/Yellow (Rich Greenberg) Re: Telephone Gateway Information (Laurence Chiu) Re: Cellular to RS232 Interface (Laurence Chiu) Re: Value Added Voice Services (Seth B. Rothenberg) The Latest Word on the Privacy Mailing List (Dennis G. Rears) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cyrillv@netcom.com (Cyrill Vatomsky) Subject: Re: Telecom in China Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 18:34:24 GMT Laurence Chiu (uttsbbs!laurence.chiu@PacBell.COM) wrote: > I just thought I would report some experiences I had calling Guangzhou > (aka Canton) China. While there are not technical difficulties making > the call (I use both MCI and AT&T) there are logistic difficulties > related to the lack of telephones in private houses. > My wife needs to call China occasionally to speak to her parents. > Since they don't have a phone we need to call a phone center which is > located near their house. This is basically a location with two > phones, one for outgoing calls and one for incoming. There is an > attendant 24 hrs/day and some helpers. We call the incoming number and > tell the attendant we wish to speak to a certain party. They dispatch > someone to the home and we call back later, usually 30 minutes or so. > The dispatcher gets paid a nominal amount. > While this works okay it's really expensive. Both AT&T and MCI > charge $5.57 (+/- 1c) for the first minute and $1.62 for subsequent > ones. We have to call minimally twice and the other night, we had to > all four times since there was some confusion over times (daylight > saving or not) and the ineptitude of the attendant who when asked if > inlaws were there said no when they were. My inlaws could get a > phone but 1) the cost would be 3000 RMB (about US$300) to install 2) > there would be nobody to call apart from us! In one of the May issues of the {Forbes Magazine} was the story about a company that arbitrages phone calls. They allow a party from a foreign country to call a special number in the US and hang up after the first ring. Then the system automatically calls the number that called and they get a US carrier and US rates. If you are interesated I can find the article and give you the bibliographic reference. Cyrill [Moderator's Note: One such service I'm working with here is called Telepassport, a product of US FIBER CORP. We're looking at the idea of making the 'phone stations' in some countries our actual customer, and letting them resell Telepassport. Re-origination, as we call it, is an idea whose time has come. Surely it will force many PTT's to bring their prices down a lot if they wish to compete. PAT] ------------------------------ From: Andrew_Marc_Greene@frankston.com Subject: Re: Kerberized Cellular Phones Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 14:25 -0400 Paul Robinson writes: > Kerberos can't be used on mobile > telephony because there is no trust at *all* that can be imposed on > the system. A user who calls into a system has *something* that can > be trusted, either the terminal location (for a local terminal) or > their "dotted quad" internet address they are at under TCP/IP, or the > dial-in telephone number, in addition to their password. Kerberos was designed for insecure systems. (Just how insecure? The root password for public Project Athena workstations is public knowlege.) Your (or your telephone's) password is what makes you trusted (well, actually, it's your session key, which is transmitted encrypted in a trapdoor function of your password); your IP (or other) address is irrelevant to the security of the system. Disclaimer: I haven't hacked on Kerberos or worked for Athena in several years, so my memory may be foggy.... - Andrew Greene ------------------------------ From: system@garlic.sbs.com Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 17:56:42 EDT Subject: Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to use 511 BBOERNER@novell.com (Brendan B. Boerner) writes: > I was reading in the {Austin Chronicle} the other day that Cox > Enterprises, Inc. (big paper chain, owns the {Austin American > Statesman}) and BellSouth have announced an "agreement in principle" > to form a joint company that will deliver information services to > consumers who dial 511 (for a small fee of course). [some things deleted] > My questions are: Who controls the allocation of N11 numbers? And if > presumably the allocation is controlled by a regulatory body and not > the phone company, why in God's name would these guys even think of > allocating such a number so phone companies/newspapers can make a > buck? Tell them to get a phone number like the rest of us ... For convenience, I wouldn't mind dialing a three digit number for services that I use on a regular basis. The phone company has had this option for years, why not let other business use it? As far as who controls it, I think it's all up to regulatory agencies within the states to set rates caps and approve tarrif but it all comes down to the BOC. > Let's see: > 111 - can phone equipment distinquish between this and a L.D. call? > 211 - ? 211 used to be the way you made a long distance call in the U.S. before everything got automated. > 311 - ? > 411 - Directory assistance > 511 - Proposed information services > 611 - ? In many areas, 611 is still used to call repair service. Here in NET land we dial 1-555-1611. > 711 - ? I recall there having been something for 711 years back but can't remember it. > 811 - ? > 911 - Emergency services > This means that there would be five, maybe six codes left over. Hmmm, > I wonder if we can think of a better use for 511. What would you propose? I think that what they're using them for now, and Bell South's proposal to use them for large business is perfectly legitimate. Tony [Moderator's Note: For many years up until the early 1970's, the towns of Lafayette and West Lafayette, IN had dial service via GTE, with regular seven digit phone numbers, with one exception: Purdue University was reached from anywhere in town by dialing 90. (Just nine-oh). That got you the Purdue operator; if you knew the five digit extension you wanted on the campus, you dialed 92 plus the five digits. Even though Lafayette was surrounded by area code 317, it was not direct-dialable until sometime in the early seventies, despite it having seven digit numbers with the exception of Purdue. From elsewhere in the USA if you wished to call Purdue University, you dialed your long distance oper- ator and asked for 'Purdue University . Your long distance operator looked it up or called 'rate and route' to find that indeed, Purdue was listed as its own thing, with the operator instructed to 'mark the ticket 317 plus 156 plus ... operator's route 317 plus 156'. That brought the Purdue operator on the line directly, either to connect to the extension or provide information and then connect. Remember when all the military bases in the USA used to have two or three digit dialing locally from the town where they were located and long distance calls (even after DDD started) went through the long- distance operator who connected with the military base operator direct? PAT] ------------------------------ From: stevef@wrq.com (Steve Forrette) Subject: Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 Date: 10 Jul 1993 00:06:09 GMT Organization: Walker Richer & Quinn, Inc., Seattle, WA In article rothen+@pitt.edu (Seth B Rothenberg) writes: > In article hhallika@tuba.calpoly.edu > (Harold Hallikainen) writes: >> I recently got the PacBell bill stuffer on "1 means ten digits >> follow". It looks like that's really gonna free up the number space. >> People have complained about not knowing if a call is gonna cost them. >> Maybe the telco can give a little warning beep as the call is being >> handled. > Maybe this could be done by requiring IXCs to play their standard tone > whether the call is operator or not. eg, you would dial 1-212-555-4320 > and hear " (chime!) AT & T" and then ringing. Or "(chime!) Thank you > for using AT&T" and then ringing. This would be a terrible idea! There's the technical problem of devices that are listening to the line for call progress tones misinterpreting the extra sound as an answer (I have an old modem that interprets the "Thank you for using AT&T" calling card confirmation as a BUSY and hangs up the line immediately). Also, since calls carried over SS7 complete almost instantly now, some delay would have to be added to play the sound. Then there's just the aesthetic annoyance factory - I think "(chime!) AT&T" would be even more annoying than the network logos that all the TV networks recently began using in the bottom corner of the screen for all their programs. I'm paying for the call, I know it's long distance, and I don't want the call slowed down just to play an annoying message. If I'm not sure that a call is long distance, well that's what the operator is there for. Steve Forrette, stevef@wrq.com [Moderator's Note: If you're not sure if a call is long distance, well that's what your wallet or checkbook are there for! :) PAT] ------------------------------ From: jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) Subject: Re: 811 in California (was Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 00:07:44 GMT > It didn't make sense to have 800 numbers for out of state and 811 > in-state, so they just made all of us dial an extra four digits. :-( Not to mention that you could not dial the 811 or xxx-811-xxx from out of state. You had to have directory assistance translate it into a POTS #, or you couldn't call, and most people didn't know it could be done (nor were the operators forthcoming with the suggestion). A side note, many smaller telco's use in-state only 800 service for the business office and do not list a number that can be reached from out of the area :-(. Justin ------------------------------ Subject: Re: 811 to Reach Telco Business Offices Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 10:53:30 PDT From: Lauren Weinstein The current books have a notation at the start of the Pacific Bell listings warning that 811 numbers are not reachable from outside California and may not be reachable from some non-Pacific territories. They suggest calling directory assistance for an alternate number if necessary. This seems rather bizarre actually, since the only numbers that directory assistance should have are the same ones listed in the book -- where you presumably would have gotten the 811 number in the first place! Alternate numbers are not generally listed in the book, in any case. There are fewer 811 numbers than in previous years. The 800 numbers definitely predominate this year, though 811 numbers are still scattered throughout the Pacific Bell listing section. --Lauren-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 10:52:59 EDT From: Carl Moore Subject: Re: 811 to Reach Telco Business Offices I don't have any examples in front of me, but don't some California phone books supply the "actual" telephone numbers in case they need to be called from a place where 811-xxxx cannot be used? [Moderator's Note: See previous message. Not according to Lauren or Steve they don't. PAT] ------------------------------ From: macwhiz@roundtable.cif.rochester.edu (Gone Fishing) Subject: Re: Switching Red/Green to Black/Yellow Organization: Computer Interest Floor - University of Rochester, NY Date: 10 Jul 93 22:23:50 GMT In knauer@ibeam.intel.com (Rob Knauerhase) writes: >Greetings all, > Does anyone know of a switch that will take a four-wire input > (where red/green are line one and black/yellow are line two) and > select one of the pairs to connect to red/green output? I have two > lines in my apartment, and would like an easier way of switching the > modem between them than moving the plug from one jack to another. > [...] Well, if you just want to switch the modem for outgoing use... i.e., the modem isn't seeing any incoming use that you want to automatically switch for, a good old DPDT switch from Radio Shack's bargain bin did the job for me for many years. Dirt cheap too. Get a small experimentor's box, wire up the switch inside and you're all set. I'd recommend getting a switch with screw terminals and three sets of base cord to spade lug cable if you want to do it neat and easy. Maybe $10 in parts, I'd guess. And unlike most RS stuff I've had occasion to use, there's not much to break down or go wrong. :) Rob Levandowski Computer Interest Floor / University of Rochester ------------------------------ From: richgr@netcom.com (Rich Greenberg) Subject: Re: Switching Red/Green to Black/Yellow Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 16:38:43 GMT I made such a switch with 2 modular cords and a DPDT switch. If you number the six contacts on the switch like this: --------------------------- | 1 3 5 | | | | 2 4 6 | --------------------------- (3 & 4 are the "arms" of the switch.) >From a 2 line jack, connect: red = 1, green = 2, yellow = 3, and 4 = black If you have 2 single line jacks, use 3 cords and connect line 1's red/green to 1/2, line 2's red/green to 5/6. Tape up the yellow/black pair on each. >From the modem, red = 3, green = 4. Tape up the yellow/black pair. A center off switch can completely disconnect it. All of this can be gotten at Radio Shack. A DPDT toggle switch (you may be able to find one with screw terminals if you can't solder), and 2 or three cords with a modular on one end and spade lugs on the other. Rich Greenberg Work: ETi Solutions, Oceanside CA 619-631-5280 N6LRT TinselTown, USA Play: richgr@netcom.com 310-649-0238 I speak for myself only. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Telephone Gateway Information From: uttsbbs!laurence.chiu@PacBell.COM (Laurence Chiu) Date: 10 Jul 93 10:05:00 GMT Organization: The Transfer Station BBS, Danville, CA - 510-837-4610/837-5591 Reply-To: uttsbbs!laurence.chiu@PacBell.COM (Laurence Chiu) In a message, J Van Zijll De Jong commented on Telephone Gateway Information: > Does anyone have any information on telephone gateways. I am doing a > fourth year project at Massey University New Zealand on home > automation. I am interested in being able to have remote operation of > the home control system via the telephone. I know that SMART HOUSE > has a AT&T telephone gateway, but I have been unable to get any > information on it. Do you know of any other products avaiable that > would be relevant to my project. I used to have some equipment that allowed me remote control capability of any appliance in my house. I just plugged an addressable receiver box into each outlet and then could send pulses through the house wiring to turn on/off appliances at will, dim lights etc. I think the system called X10 and I think you can get a PC interface. You could also dial in from any touch tone phone and activate appliances. It may not be as hi-tech as the one you are looking for but it is a start. Laurence Chiu The Transfer Station BBS (510) 837-4610 & 837-5591 (V.32bis both lines) Danville, California, USA. 1.5 GIG Files & FREE public Internet Access ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Cellular to RS232 Interface From: uttsbbs!laurence.chiu@PacBell.COM (Laurence Chiu) Date: 10 Jul 93 10:05:00 GMT Organization: The Transfer Station BBS, Danville, CA - 510-837-4610/837-5591 Reply-To: uttsbbs!laurence.chiu@PacBell.COM (Laurence Chiu) In a message, J.harrison@bra0401.wins.i commented on Cellular to RS232: > I've been looking round for a new phone and it looks to me like the > easiest one to interface to a modem has *got* to be the Nokia 101 if > anyone else is trying this. Well I just bought a Nokia 121 and it has a modem interface (optional extra of course). It looks like a cradle that the phone sits in, the cradle having a cable terminating in a PCMCIA card that would slot into any notebook having such a connector. Looks pretty neat but expensive. I didn't think the 101 had this option. Laurence Chiu Walnut Creek, CA lchiu@Holonet.net The Transfer Station BBS (510) 837-4610 & 837-5591 (V.32bis both lines) Danville, California, USA. 1.5 GIG Files & FREE public Internet Access ------------------------------ From: rothen+@pitt.edu (Seth B Rothenberg) Subject: Re: Value Added Voice Services Date: 10 Jul 93 17:30:33 GMT Organization: University of Pittsburgh In article deej@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (david.g.lewis) writes: > Or, somebody could be standing a meter behind you listening to what > you say. Someone could be fifty meters away across a train terminal > watching you through binoculars as you key in the card number and PIN. > Welcome to the wonderful world of calling card fraud. > For the most part, they monitor for "unusual" calling patterns. I > don't know what types of patterns AT&T monitors for, and even if I > did, it's almost certainly proprietary information, but speaking > *very* generally the kinds of things watched for are order-of- > magnitude increases in usage This has happened twice to my father's calling card. He thinks that once my brother got shoulder-surfed in NYC's Port Authority bus terminal, and once my father himself got 'hit' in the airport in Atlanta. Both times, NYTel cut off the card the same day. They did not call first. (Come to think of it, the technology exists that they could have the caller patched through to an operator or investigator in order to check with the customer ... or, to someone who can call the police, but they don't seem to do this. I am sure they did not try to bill us for any of the extra calls, and they keep giving us cards :-). Seth ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 10:24:09 EDT From: Dennis G. Rears Subject: The Latest Word on the Privacy Mailing List [Moderator's Note: I recently wrote to Dennis Rears asking for his current address regards the mailing list he maintains. PAT] > Dennis, I have had inquiries from people who say they cannot reach you > with mail for your digest. Could you send a note giving us all an > update on where mail should be sent, etc? And Dennis Rears replied in mail to me: To reach the Computer Privacy Digest the following addresses are available: Submissions: comp-privacy@pica.army.mil Admin: comp-privacy-request@Pica.army.mil You might also want to put out an announcement that the telecom-priv mailing list no longer exists. Recently I have been getting email about telecom-priv. If people can reach me at all they can always email . Thanks, dennis [Moderator's Note: Thanks, and how about you, Lauren W? Care to provide the address for your privacy journal in case readers wish to subscribe? PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #463 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa17151; 10 Jul 93 22:50 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA19232 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Sat, 10 Jul 1993 20:22:54 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA01887 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Sat, 10 Jul 1993 20:22:02 -0500 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 20:22:02 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307110122.AA01887@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #464 TELECOM Digest Sat, 10 Jul 93 20:22:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 464 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson SUMMARY: Costing Home Fiber Installation (Peter J. Scott) Answering Machine and Fax Marriages - Can They Work? (Eddie Corns) Re: Answering Machine Bypass Code Information Wanted (system@garlic.sbs) Re: Answering Machine Bypass Code Information Wanted (Robert B. Thompson) Re: DID Chip? (Fred R. Goldstein) Re: Access to Toll Records (Justin Greene) Re: Access to Toll Records (Paul Houle) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pjs@euclid.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Peter J. Scott) Subject: SUMMARY: Costing Home Fiber Installation Date: 10 Jul 1993 16:59:07 GMT Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech Reply-To: pjs@euclid.Jpl.Nasa.Gov I promised I would summarize the information I received on my request regarding getting fiber-optic access at home (even in the boondocks) for high-speed connectivity to the Internet so I could get X, audio, and video connections to my work place. Here's the result. This is a long post, but I received a lot of high-quality information, and I know there are others out there very interested in this. From: bud@kentrox.com (Bud Couch): Ask about Switched 56 access as well. Usually, it's implemented using 4W DDS and the "bigger hammer",so that access charges are ridiculous (2 pairs required). However, if you're lucky, and your local CO is a Northern Telecom DMS, and PacBell has set it up, you may be able to get Switched 56 service via a technology called Datapath. This uses a ping-pong transmission method at 144Kbps to provide up to 64 kBps. Switched 56 is easily implemented on it, and, since it only requires a single pair, the access charges are about half of the other major technique. From: gg502@fermi.pnl.gov Well, depending on what you are _doing_ with X, it may be that you don't really need 56 kbps. I have an NCD x terminal at home, with a 9600 baud modem. I dial in using their Xremote software (which is the basis for Low Bandwidth X, which is "under construction" by the X Consortium). From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Can you get line of sight from the roof of your house (perhaps with an antenna mast) to an existing network site? If so, there are some inexpensive wireless modems that can give you up to 2MB/sec at reason- able cost up to five miles. I'm currently using a pair of Wavelan wireless 2MB Ethernets which cost about $600 each. They are implemented as ISA or Microchannel adapter cards, so I stuck them in old PCs with regular wired Ethernet cards and use PCROUTE. Works pretty well. The standard omnidirec- tional modems work up to 300 feet, and you're supposed to get up to five miles line of sight with external yagi antennas which cost about $400 each including lightning protectors. From: lars@spectrum.CMC.COM (Lars Poulsen) You should contact an INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDER also called a mid-level network operator or "regional network". There are about 50 of these; most are only active in a particular geographical area, and many serve only "Research and Education". Among the beter known providers of commercial connections are: Alternet (UUNET Technologies) PSI (Performance Systems International, I think) CERFnet The biggest cost driver is carriage from your house to the network provider's nearest router. If you are five males from a small town, odds are that the network provider's point of presence is not within a local call. (They tend to co-locate with either a large research park or the LATA point-of-presence of a long-distance carrier.) If you are fairly close to a POP (point of presence) the carriage may be less than $100/month for a four-wire circuit that can run 56 Kbps. The going rate for the Internet Service through that pipe is about $1000/month. This is not totally out of reach for engineering consult- ants working out of their home. If you are within a local call of someone who has an internet connection and is willing to share with you, you can get a couple of IP addresses from their network number, and run a dial-up IP connection over 14400 bps modems. With enough savvy, you can install free software on a unix workstation on each end of the link. Or you can buy a turnkey dial-up router to install at each end for $1995 each, which attaches to the ethernet at each end and dials up the link when there's traffic. This puts the cost well within the budget of many "part-time work-at-home" engineers. And the prices are coming down fast. Going up the speed range, the price goes up fast. From 14400 bps to 56 kbps is not a big step: Each of them is worth "one phone connection". The next faster is typically a T1 (1544 kbps) line, worth 24 phone connections, and usually priced at about ten times the 56 kbps. The point at which they run a fiber is probably a T3 (43 million bits per second) which is 28 T1's or 672 telephone connections' worth. I haven't priced it recently, but it isn't cheap. From: "Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr" As someone who has actually *done* this, I should be able to give you some good answers. First, it's going to be very expensive. Second, you will probably be better off leasing circuits from the phone company for this sort of thing. Here are some details: First, fiber is generally considered a high-bandwidth medium. A pair of fibers (one for transmit, one for receive) is generally going to be operated at 10Mbit (Ethernet speed) or faster. 100Mbit is also common. Thus, you're looking at linked Ethernet segments, which is much faster than the typical Internet link (DS0 - 56Kbit or T1 - 1.544Mbit). Current Internet links will run quite happily over copper pairs leased to you by the local telco. The cost of leasing such a circuit will likely be less over a reasonable period (say, five years) than building your own fiber link. Lastly, most (if not all) Internet service providers aren't going to know what to do with your fiber once you get it there. So, you'd probably need to run it to your workplace. This brings up the issues of job security, etc., and whether you could profit from that piece of fiber if you were no longer employed there. So, if you still want to do it, here is what you will need to do: First, establish a reasonable route for your fiber. You will want to use existing utility poles wherever possible. This will save you negotating with each and every property holder along the route, let you avoid construction permits, etc. Next, establish which utility handles pole space leasing in your area. There may be various owners of poles (power utility, telephone company, cable TV, municipal fire alarm, etc.) but normally they will appoint one of them as the lease agent for the entire area, no matter who owns the pole. You will then have to contact the lease agent and discuss the feasibilty. You should have gathered various pieces of necessary information, such as the number of poles and their serial numbers (yes, they're serialized). You will probably find that there is a per-pole rate which is quite reasonable, an annual minimum, and some additional charges. Here in NJ, the rate is under $5 per pole per year with a $100 minimum. However, since many of the poles will have been installed with no idea that you wanted space (in fact, some of them were a tight fit when Cable TV came along), you may have to pay to have the other users of the pole move their attachments up or down, and in some cases you may have to pay for a new, taller, pole if the attachments can't be moved (for example, because it would reduce necessary clearances or spacing). This is all quite reasonably priced (again, in NJ it was something like $20 per pole to relocate telco). I never priced new poles. If any part of the run is underground, you'll need a separate lease for the conduit space. So, now you have an idea how much renting poles will cost you. The lease agent may charge you for a survey to determine the number of attachments to be moved, or poles to be replaced. My experience is that you won't be charged if the agent thinks you are serious (serious == likely to go through with the job). Then you have to price your fiber. You'll want a good outdoor-grade fiber like AT&T 3DFX-xxx-HXM, where xxx is the number of fibers. Be sure to allocate enough spare fibers to cover damage (more on that later). You'll also need to supply the "messenger strand" your fiber will attach to, and the various hardware parts to attach all of that to the poles. Also plan on getting some of the "FIBER - don't cut" tags. If any portion of your run is underground, you will need a conduit liner as well. Once you have your signed (and paid) lease agreement and your fiber, you're about ready to start. However, first you'll need to post a liability bond or acquire liability insurance. For my run in NJ, this was a $1,000,000 bond or a $5,000,000 policy. This is to cover things like your cable falling down and injuring someone, etc. Now you need to get the cable up on the poles. This is gonna cost you. You really can't do this yourself (unless you already do this for a living) as it needs lots of specialized tools, and more than one person. Your best bet is to contract with one of the existing pole users (remember, that's usually the power utility, telco, Cable TV, municipal fire alarm, etc.). This is a *good* *thing* for a number of reasons: 1) Since they do this for a living, they'll do it right, and you can usually avoid any inspection by the lease agent if done this way. 2) Since they're on the same poles, they do a good job, typically. They don't want their stuff damaging yours, or vice versa. 3) When the obligatory drunk takes down a pole you're on (provided you set this up as part of your deal), the installer will fix your stuff (or at least prevent it from becoming further damaged or a hazard) while they're out fixing their stuff. Otherwise you're likely to get a late night call from the police/fire department telling you to clear your cable or lose it. This brings up the need for spare cable, splicing equipment, etc. If you can't find anyone to do this, you can always get a commercial electrical contractor to do it. I'd advise getting the detailed plans showing all of the requirements from the lease agent, and telling your contractor they won't get paid in full until the lease agent approves their job. Stuff on poles is utterly foreign to most electricians and the rules are very different from the ones they're used to. The particulars of my run are a four-block distance in NJ, using a cable with four fibers, partially underground and partially pole-based. It took about a year of on-and-off negotiation to get this set up. The installation contractor was the local Cable TV company, and the poles were leased from NJ Bell Telephone. The cost breakdown was about $1750 for installation, $2000 for the fiber itself (terminations included), $300 for leases/relocation/etc. Then there was $5000 for the Ethernet gear (prices have come down). And, let's not forget the million dollar liability bond. ---------------- Thanks to everyone who responded! Peter Scott, NASA/JPL/Caltech (pjs@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov) ------------------------------ From: Eddie Corns Subject: Answering Machine and Fax Marriages - Can They Work? Date: 10 Jul 93 12:09:37 GMT Hi, I am posting this query on behalf of a friend trying to run a small business. He has currently one telephone line and an answering machine. He would like to also add a fax machine and wants to find the most viable options. Obvioulsy he can simply get a second phone line installed but he is hoping for a cheaper solution because BT can charge up to 160 for that (I think). If he tries to put them on the same line I presume he needs some kind of manager box that discriminates fax callers from others. My limited knowledge of telephony suggests this is done by the bleepy noise the caller gives when connection is established. I presume in order for this setup to work either a) answering machine answers phone and discriminator listens for signal and quickly turns on fax and cuts out answering machine (before it gets to the tone which we are asked to speak after) or b) discriminator answers call and if fax passes it straight through to fax, if not actually makes answering machine start ringing so that it will then answer as normal (caller will presumably notice a slight glitch in ringing) or c) neither of the above. Because he is a very small company he doesn't want to buy a particularly expensive fax machine, in fact I have been trying to persuade hime to use his Mac with appropriate modem/software which seems like a very economical method to me. Needless to say when he's actually in, he will answer the phone himself. Would anyone please suggest any DOs and DONTs here and any helpful hints and even to satisfy my curiousity of how they can work together. Eddie ------------------------------ From: system@garlic.sbs.com Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 22:39:56 EDT Subject: Re: Answering Machine Bypass Code Information Wanted mitchell@cwis.unomaha.edu (Dennis Mitchell) writes: > I'm looking for a new answering machine, I've heard that one with the > features I want exists, but I have no idea who makes it. > My fiance works nights, and sleeps during the day. When she's in bed, > she unplugs the phone and lets her answering machine take all the > calls. Generally that's all right, but _sometimes_ there are calls > that she needs to receive right away. > We need to find an answering machine that will prevent the phone from > ringing unless the caller enters a bypass code of some sort. Can > anyone offer a suggestion on where to look? I have an AT&T 1523 Phone/Answerer/Dialer combo and it has a neat feature call Priority Codes. When I really don't want to answer the phone unless it's absolutely urgent (hangover recoveries mean even Priority gets disabled!) the caller gets my outgoing message, taps in the two digit (changeable, like all the codes on my machine) and the phone starts beeping like mad for 20 seconds. After 20 seconds, if nobody picks up the phone it will prompt the caller to leave a message anyhow. Talk about the height of frustration. Heh heh. Tony system@hades.cdp.org ------------------------------ From: Robert B. Thompson Subject: Re: Answering Machine Bypass Code Information Wanted Date: 10 Jul 93 15:08:34 EST Organization: Forsyth County, Winston-Salem NC In article , mitchell@cwis.unomaha.edu (Dennis Mitchell) writes: > I'm looking for a new answering machine, I've heard that one with the > features I want exists, but I have no idea who makes it. Home Automation Laboratories (1-800-HOMELAB) sells a device called "Friends Only" that sounds like it should do what you need. It sits between your CO demarc and the phones in your home. When an inbound call arrives, the box answers it silently and prompts the caller for a passcode. If the caller fails to enter the proper code he is disconnected. If he enters the correct code, the box itself rings. It's important to note that the box itself generates an electronic ring, but does not generate ring current on the line; that is, the only ring you'll get is from the box itself. Your phones will no long ring at all. I think the device costs about $70. Robert Bruce Thompson thompson@ledger.forsyth.wsnc.org Forsyth County MIS Department (919) 727-2597 x3012 Winston-Salem, North Carolina USA (919) 727-2020 (FAX) ------------------------------ From: goldstein@isdnip.lkg.dec.com (Fred R. Goldstein) Subject: Re: DID Chip? Reply-To: goldstein@carafe.tay2.dec.com Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 04:27:24 GMT In article rothen+@pitt.edu (Seth B Rothenberg) writes: > Having resolved that there's no cheaper substitute for DID service, I > would like to ask if there is anyone who knows where I could find out > if there is a chip that supports DID? (I figure, if you can buy a > telephone-on-a-chip at Radio Shack, maybe there's a chance you can > buy DID-on-a-chip someplace ... it does not need to be as close as the > Radio Shack up the street.) Huh? DID is a service delivered by the central office. Basically, the phone company sells you a whole heap of numbers for a price, and prefaces each incoming call with the last few digits, either pulsed or toned. Since it's the numbers you're buying from their owner (phone company), 'tain't nuttin' you can do with any chip to get them elsewhere. Fred R. Goldstein goldstein@carafe.tay2.dec.com opinions are mine alone. sharing requires permission ------------------------------ From: jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) Subject: Re: Access to Toll Records Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 21:17:35 GMT > The credit info both of these came back with appeared to be the same > thing an individual is entitled to when denied credit by a credit > grantor. It probably is and the person who ran the report could get > a mongo fine if they don't have a signature on file giving permission > to pull the info. > Both programs used the figure of 100 dollars as what they paid for > other information, including long-distance records. There was no > elaboration on what was meant by "records", but one would assume they > meant individual call detail. I have a problem understanding how > this can be so. > It does not seem possible that toll records are available to any > entity, at any price, under the above scenario. What's going on here? Well, it's like this. Money can buy anything and people are sheep. Your phone records have three components, local calls, local long distance,and long distance. If your regional company handles the billing for the long distance carrier then it's all there at the local level, all you need is a good scam or a source (not quite so easy as it sounds). Personally, I'm kinda funny about privacy so I use a carrier that does not bill through my local telco and I use 10xxx to access them so anyone trying to access my records would get a headache trying to find them. I also use ATT, MCI & Sprint depending on how I feel. If they want all my records they are going to pay through the nose. If you want to make life really tuff ask the telco to put a code on your account and no info will be released without it (yeah right). It will at least stop any amatuers from getting info. I also have an 800 number which I give to family and old friends so that my number cannot be obtained by pulling their tolls (though a pen register on the line would give that number which would then have to be translated to my pots number, etc. Privacy unfortunately in this day and age is very very expensive. Now that I have you sufficiently paranoid, rest secure that it isn't all that easy to get info. Most private people can't get it, nor would they know what to do with it if they could. Credit bureaus keep a record of who requests full reports so fraudulent inquiries can be tracked down (Of course you have to be in the habit of checking your reports every now and then to know if an inquiry was made). Telco accounts can be notes in big capital letters not to release info, though that won't stop a pro. The show accomplished it purpose though and got your attention didn't it :-) -Anonymous ;-) Justin ------------------------------ From: Paul.Houle@leotech.MV.COM (Paul Houle) Reply-To: houle@leotech.MV.COM Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 12:49:00 Subject: Re: Access to Toll Records > Fourth, assume that criminal activity is not involved, and > that no law-enforcement agencies are involved. > It does not seem possible that toll records are available > to any entity, at any price, under the above scenario. The fourth assumption is probably false. Call-detail records and other propreitary phone information can be very easily had from crooked phone company employees. Most private eyes have a good working relationship with one, and you don't even necessarily need to pay them money. I have a 'phriend' who wrote a kind of executive briefing on fiber optics for a BOC employee. He had met the BOC employee in person previously, and the guy had asked him to tell him all about optic fiber, and he did. Anyway, the BOC guy wanted to print this out and make photocopies to hand out to his subordinates. In return my phriend got some confidential information. My phriend is rather proud that he wrote training materials that were used [unofficially] at a BOC! Origin: NETIS (603)432-2517/432-0922 (HST/V32) (1:132/189) [Moderator's Note: All of us probably have known at one time or another a telco employee who was corrupt. All the telcos take the violation of customer and company records as a very serious offense. For the fifty or hundred dollar bribe a clerk might get for giving out a non-pub number for example, the risks are just too great they will be caught. *If you get caught*, consider this scenario: you are told to go the Personnel Department. There you see your supervisor, a couple guys from security, and your union steward waiting for you. Security confronts you with the evidence, and your supervisor fires you, collecting your keys, identification card and/or other company property on the spot. You were an excellent worker otherwise, and its hard for your supervisor to say the words he has to say ... but he says it, security walks you down to the front door and hands you your final paycheck on the way out with any back pay or vacation pay you have coming. The union steward can't do much to help you under the circumstances; he can grieve to the company on your behalf, but being a traitor to company secrets and theft of records is hard to appeal. He's there to see that you get your final pay and that the company does not screw you around too much; but when security walks you to the front door, puts your pay in your hands and tells you to never come on company property again for any reason, that's it. You worked there twenty years? Tough; you are out ... on your ass! *You* get to go home and explain to your wife and kids why you no longer work for telco. Think about it before you get seduced by some phreak looking for company proprietary information. Remember former Digest participant Randy Barrow from three years ago? Don't forget the example made of Randy for other AT&T employees! PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #464 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa09195; 12 Jul 93 4:46 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA32320 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Mon, 12 Jul 1993 01:48:54 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA14421 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Mon, 12 Jul 1993 01:48:11 -0500 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 01:48:11 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307120648.AA14421@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #465 TELECOM Digest Mon, 12 Jul 93 01:48:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 465 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: Some More Historical Questions (Pat Turner) Re: Some More Historical Questions (Robert L. McMillin) Re: Some More Historical Questions (David Breneman) Re: I Just Got Scammed (system@garlic.sbs.com) Re: I Just Got Scammed (Jan Hinnerk Haul) Re: Power Crosses Phone Lines (was Why -48V on Local Loop?) (Al Varney) Re: Caller ID and Bell Canada (Tony Harminc) Re: GSM Security (Bruce Albrecht) Re: White House Orders No Bid Phone System (Alan Boritz) Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? (Brian T. Vita) Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? (Dave Grabowski) Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? (Roy M. Silvernail) The Day the Bell System Died (Reprint with comments by John C. Fowler) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: turner@Dixie.Com Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 22:06 EDT Subject: Re: Some More Historical Questions > In 1907, vacuum tubes were in their infancy, if available, so > it almost sounds like they just ran an incredible current through that > microphone and used water to keep it from doing a melt-down. The > audio in Tulsa must have been really fabulous after 100 miles of > open-wire unequalized line. Two things would have worked in their favor, however: 1) Open wire has a much lower loss than twisted pair 2) There wasn't a lot of RFI or PI (power influence) back then, that continues to plague long rural loops. If powers lines did run near the cable (doubtful), there were no switching power supplies, ballasts, or cap banks to generate the dreaded triple odd harmonics. 100 miles isn't impressive. If they could drive a speaker at that distance, that would be something. Of course, people would probably still be impressed if someone listened to a set of headphones and relayed the message to the public. Patton Turner KB4GRZ FAA Telecommunication turner@dixie.com ------------------------------ From: rlm@helen.surfcty.com (Robert L. McMillin) Subject: Re: Some More Historical Questions Organization: Surf City Software/TBFW Project Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 02:33:27 GMT On Tue, 06 Jul 1993 16:38:30 -0500, the Moderator noted: > Amazing technology? By the time grandpa left us he had seen in his > lifetime: the invention of radio, television, talking movies, airplanes, > automobiles, computers, countless other things; he saw the telephone > and electricity come into very wide acceptance and use as well, > bringing with widespread electrical distribution the use of refriger- > ators, fans, household lighting, etc. Can you imagine coming into a > world with none of those things as a young person growing up and and > having all of them in your daily life when you leave? Will we ever see > another century like the 20th in terms of sheer variety of inventions > and technological changes? Of course *I* remember when there were no > computers and television was only something that a few very rich > people had in their houses and phones were black instruments with a > round dial if you lived in a place where the exchange was 'modern'. I > suppose given life-expectancy rates I will be around until 2030 or so, > and many of you will be around until 2070. Given the changes in the > past century, doesn't it blow your mind to think of what technology > will be like when *you* depart? I know it excites me. PAT] Is it so exciting? It seems that what technology giveth with the one hand, it taketh away with the other. Television brought entertainment and the immediacy of distant images; but it's also given us reduced attention spans, has been linked to rising crime rates, oversimplifies the events it does manage to show us, and invites us into ill-considered foreign military adventures. Computers make possible this very message, the Internet through which it passes, and our whole far-flung communication system; yet the widespread application of computers has resulted in the most significant social upheaval since the Industrial Revolution. Like that distant time, it is not entirely clear what those on the bleeding edge will do after the revolution is over. Remember the Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times." Robert L. McMillin | Surf City Software | rlm@helen.surfcty.com ------------------------------ From: daveb%avatar@dsinet.dgtl.com (David Breneman) Subject: Re: Some More Historical Questions Date: 11 Jul 93 19:33:16 GMT martin@datacomm.ucc.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) writes: > The account of this hookup said that the governor spoke into a > water-cooled microphone in Oklahoma City and the signal was audible in > Tulsa, about 100 Miles to the Northeast. > In 1907, vacuum tubes were in their infancy, if available, so > it almost sounds like they just ran an incredible current through that > microphone and used water to keep it from doing a melt-down. The > audio in Tulsa must have been really fabulous after 100 miles of > open-wire unequalized line. > [Moderator's Note: Yours is the second time I've heard that story, and > it is hard to imagine how it was done. I think the key is "water-cooled" microphone. Even in the early days of radio, the signal was generated by feeding the output of an alternator (which generated the carrier signal) *through* a microphone and on to the antenna. Much research was devoted to designing microphones which could modulate greater and greater currents. It was DeForest's invention of the Audion which allowed the microphone to modulate a small current, which was fed to the transmitter tube which used that small current to modulate the big current coming from the alternator. It makes perfect sense that this speech could have been "transmitted" by connecting a high-current microphone to a large bank of *telegraph* batteries (much more voltage than telephone batteries) and using a chalk-cylinder amplifier at the receiving end - there were *mechanical* amplifiers long before electronic ones (used for "loud speaking" phonographs in the 1890's). It would be quite a treat if this pioneering technological stunt could be repeated on Oklahoma's centennial. David Breneman Email: daveb@jaws.engineering.dgtl.com System Administrator, Software Engineering Services Digital Systems International, Inc. Voice: 206 881-7544 Fax: 206 556-8033 ------------------------------ From: system@garlic.sbs.com Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 18:38:54 EDT Subject: Re: I Just Got Scammed vinceg@bos.mcd.mot.com (Vince Grove) writes: > I seem to remember a scam described here some time ago. I received a > collect call from a New England Telephone service representative. I > was told the charges would be forwarded to NE Telephone. The service > rep claimed that my line was being overheard on other phone lines in > the area and they were checking it out. > How does this scam work?! I don't know but New England Telephone NEVER calls collect. Why should they, they own the system. But I suppose someone could do it to you with the NET voice system. If you're dumb enough to accept the call then you deserved to get scammed. ------------------------------ From: Jan Hinnerk Haul Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 20:15:33 +0200 Subject: Re: I Just Got Scammed In comp.dcom.telecom TELECOM Moderator notes: > Moderator's Note: For starters, telco *never* calls anyone collect. > Most telcos accept collect calls from anywhere; they never place > collect calls. PAT] So, why do the operators connect such calls? They know who pretends to be calling, and they screen out calls like "Needa Ride", so why don't they screen out calls from "Police", "Telco" etc? Regards, Jan H. Haul Tel. +49 40 - 890 57 57 Disc.: Not even *my* Hamburg, Germany Fax +49 40 - 890 51 57 opinion [Moderator's Note: I doubt it was an operator who called him! If I were to call you now and claim to be an AT&T operator in the United States with a collect call for you, wouldn't you be hard pressed to know the difference, particularly if it was a female who called? I think someone called our correspondent hoping he would accept the collect call but maybe reveal his calling card number in the process. You can accept collect calls that way you know; when the operator says there is a collect call, tell her you wish to put it on your AT&T Calling Card. She'll ask for the Calling Card number and PIN, but of course you be certain to tell her to split the connection before you start rattling off the number so the caller does not hear the number, especially the PIN part. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 22:03:12 CDT From: varney@ihlpe.att.com Subject: Re: Power Crosses Phone Lines (was Why -48V on Local Loop?) Organization: AT&T In article Andy Rabagliati writes: > In article varney@ihlpe.att.com > writes: >> The heat coils were in place to detect a real concern of the time -- >> 120V AC power lines falling onto the telephone lines that were on the >> same or nearby poles. > In the UK, any crossing of power lines over phone lines is treated > with great concern. Big netting arrangements are built, so that if the > power cables break they will still not touch phone lines. It's not just where the lines cross, although that was once a major concern -- now a minor issue due to the removal of most bare overhead telephone wire. Telephone training on the installation of bare wire included diagrams of how wire under strain could flip itself up or over onto adjacent power lines. And there used to be lots of complex rules about whether the telephone lines ran over or under a particular set of power lines. In the USA, many individual pairs of overhead wires still run below 120/240 volt electrical service lines. My father's farm receives electrical service from one side of the road and telephone service from open wire on the other side of the road. At the transformer stepping down the voltage to 120/240 volts, the telephone wires are run as a small cable a few feet below the electrical wires. (The telephone cable would have to have an insulation break in order for 120V to short to the telephone wires. However, both electrical and telephone insulation is cracked and missing entirely on these one wires.) Al Varney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 00:03:39 EDT From: Tony @ Brownvm Subject: Re: Caller ID and Bell Canada msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) wrote: >> Incidentally, with Bell Canada, if you have Call Return, you are told >> the number that last called you, and given the *option* of returning >> the call. If Call Block was used on that call, then you are told that >> the number "cannot be given out", and then given the option of >> returning the call anyway. ... > And someone asked me in email what the phone bill would show if you > decided to return the call anyway, and it did turn out to be long > distance. I don't know, and I don't have any out-of-town friends with > Call Block to try it with. Does anyone else here know? A billing insert came around two or three months ago that explains this. Evidently Call Return will refuse to return a billable call that is ID blocked, precisely so that the number will not show up on your bill. This is Bell Canada's way of doing it -- other telcos may well vary. Tony Harminc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 01:06:47 CST From: bruce@zuhause.MN.ORG (Bruce Albrecht) Subject: Re: GSM Security In , Vangelis Kontogiannis writes: > What I would like to ask our (European) readers is, given the digital > encryption in GSM, are fraud schemes of the type often mentioned in > this list (see #435) possible? Any data on the subject? Remember, in > GSM subscription data is recorded in a credit-card sized SIM > (Subscriber Information Module) that plugs into the GSM phone; the > subscriber is uniquely identified by his IMSI (International Mobile > Subscriber Identity). There are also plug-in SIMs (Siemens and Motorola make them), which are just a bit larger than the chip contacts, about the size of the thumb from the tip to the first joint. As far as fraud is concerned, someone with enough knowledge of the GSM standards might be able to make their own SIMs, but it probably wouldn't be easy. They'd also have to know the proper encryption algorithms, which are probably A3/A8 or a variant, in order to convinced the network that the IMSI is valid. The SIMs themselves contain data in an EEROM, but the data stored in a file system that generally makes the files containing serial number information read-only. bruce@zuhause.mn.org ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 93 07:03:01 EDT From: Alan Boritz <72446.461@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: White House Orders No Bid Phone System TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM (Paul Robinson) writes: > There has been considerable flack placed upon the White House for > deciding to contact two switch bidders -- Northern Telecom and AT&T -- > and deciding to place an order consisting of Centrex service from C&P > Telephone and ordering a switch from AT&T, without putting this > contract out for bids. Sounds like another "Travel Office Scandal" all over again. Seems that the Clinton administration just loves to embarass itself whenever it gets a chance. There most certainly are secure (by government standards), reliable, and technically superior alternatives to "Mother," but some public sector officials always feel that they're above the (competitive bidding) laws. Hmmm, history (sort of) repeating itself ... ;) Alan Boritz 72446.461@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 93 10:49:17 EDT From: Brian T. Vita <70702.2233@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? > In the interim, e.g. until we get some other nominations I nominate Mars Lasar's "Cellular City" from his Eleventh Hour CD. It includes sampled DTMF tones, ringback and intercepts. The song came onto our office music system as I was cutting over to a new key system. At first I thought that I had wired the system wrong and it had started speed dialing itself :-). Brian Vita CSS, Inc. Ci$70702,2233 ------------------------------ From: dcg5662@hertz.njit.edu (Dave Grabowski) Subject: Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, New Jersey Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 01:54:41 GMT In article 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM writes: > It just occurred to me that this newsgroup needs something to > distinguish it from all the others. I just thought, as important as > telephony and telecommunications is, that maybe we need to adopt some > song as the "Theme Song" of TELECOM Digest. But which one? What's a > fairly "good" song about telephones? > [Moderator's Note: Why me, Lord? Why do I get this kind of email? PAT] I suppose another question could be, why did you put it in the Digest? Another question could be, why am I responding to this? :) I'm bored ... Back when Bell first broke up, a radio station in NYC (and I'm sure other ones around the country) had a spoof song ... the lyrics were something like ... "Ma Bell ... Breaking up is hard to do." Dave dcg5662@hertz.njit.edu 70721.2222@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? From: roy@sendai.cybrspc.mn.org (Roy M. Silvernail) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1993 13:01:55 CST Organization: The Villa CyberSpace, executive headquarters In comp.dcom.telecom, 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM writes: > It just occurred to me that this newsgroup needs something to > distinguish it from all the others. I just thought, as important as > telephony and telecommunications is, that maybe we need to adopt some > song as the "Theme Song" of TELECOM Digest. > It's sort of a tossup among several. The Electric Light Orchestra > released a song which is, I believe called either "Telephone" or > "Hello". But it's a rather sad song about someone trying to reach > someone who doesn't answer. That one's called "Telephone line". My vote goes to the Sugarloaf comeback song from 1974 ... "Don't call us, we'll call you". It's even got some touch-tones! > [Moderator's Note: Why me, Lord? Why do I get this kind of email? PAT] Just cuz we like you, Virtual PAT! Roy M. Silvernail |+| roy@sendai.cybrspc.mn.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1993 14:18:35 -0600 From: John C. Fowler Subject: Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? Paul Robinson writes: > I just thought, as important as telephony and telecommunications is, that > maybe we need to adopt some song as the "Theme Song" of TELECOM Digest. > But which one? What's a fairly "good" song about telephones? Oh, come on, Paul! Surely you know that TELECOM Digest already has a theme song! Check out the file lauren.song in the TELECOM Archives! :-) John C. Fowler, fowlerc@boulder.colorado.edu [Moderator's Note: To save him a trip to the archives (anonymous ftp to lcs.mit.edu) -- although I wish everyone would visit the archives now and then -- I've pulled the file in particular. Since today marks the tenth anniversary of when this was first printed, I thought it would be fun to do again. So here, dear readers, is "The Day The Bell System Died", a song by Lauren Weinstein which first appeared here in TELECOM Digest on July 12, 1983. Enjoy! PAT] 12-Jul-83 09:14:32-PDT,4930;000000000001 Return-path: <@LBL-CSAM:vortex!lauren@LBL-CSAM> Received: from LBL-CSAM by USC-ECLB; Tue 12 Jul 83 09:12:46-PDT Date: Tuesday, 12-Jul-83 01:18:19-PDT From: Lauren Weinstein Subject: "The Day Bell System Died" Return-Path: Message-Id: <8307121614.AA17341@LBL-CSAM.ARPA> Received: by LBL-CSAM.ARPA (3.327/3.21) id AA17341; 12 Jul 83 09:14:35 PDT (Tue) To: TELECOM@ECLB Greetings. With the massive changes now taking place in the telecommunications industry, we're all being inundated with seemingly endless news items and points of information regarding the various effects now beginning to take place. However, one important element has been missing: a song! Since the great Tom Lehrer has retired from the composing world, I will now attempt to fill this void with my own light-hearted, non-serious look at a possible future of telecommunications. This work is entirely satirical, and none of its lyrics are meant to be interpreted in a non-satirical manner. The song should be sung to the tune of Don Mclean's classic "American Pie". I call my version "The Day Bell System Died"... --Lauren-- ************************************************************************ *==================================* * Notice: This is a satirical work * *==================================* "The Day Bell System Died" Lyrics Copyright (C) 1983 by Lauren Weinstein (To the tune of "American Pie") (With apologies to Don McLean) ARPA: vortex!lauren@LBL-CSAM UUCP: {decvax, ihnp4, harpo, ucbvax!lbl-csam, randvax}!vortex!lauren ************************************************************************* Long, long, time ago, I can still remember, When the local calls were "free". And I knew if I paid my bill, And never wished them any ill, That the phone company would let me be... But Uncle Sam said he knew better, Split 'em up, for all and ever! We'll foster competition: It's good capital-ism! I can't remember if I cried, When my phone bill first tripled in size. But something touched me deep inside, The day... Bell System... died. And we were singing... Bye, bye, Ma Bell, why did you die? We get static from Sprint and echo from MCI, "Our local calls have us in hock!" we all cry. Oh Ma Bell why did you have to die? Ma Bell why did you have to die? Is your office Step by Step, Or have you gotten some Crossbar yet? Everybody used to ask... Oh, is TSPS coming soon? IDDD will be a boon! And, I hope to get a Touch-Tone phone, real soon... The color phones are really neat, And direct dialing can't be beat! My area code is "low": The prestige way to go! Oh, they just raised phone booths to a dime! Well, I suppose it's about time. I remember how the payphones chimed, The day... Bell System... died. And we were singing... Bye, bye, Ma Bell, why did you die? We get static from Sprint and echo from MCI, "Our local calls have us in hock!" we all cry. Oh Ma Bell why did you have to die? Ma Bell why did you have to die? Back then we were all at one rate, Phone installs didn't cause debate, About who'd put which wire where... Installers came right out to you, No "phone stores" with their ballyhoo, And 411 was free, seemed very fair! But FCC wanted it seems, To let others skim long-distance creams, No matter 'bout the locals, They're mostly all just yokels! And so one day it came to pass, That the great Bell System did collapse, In rubble now, we all do mass, The day... Bell System... died. So bye, bye, Ma Bell, why did you die? We get static from Sprint and echo from MCI, "Our local calls have us in hock!" we all cry. Oh Ma Bell why did you have to die? Ma Bell why did you have to die? I drove on out to Murray Hill, To see Bell Labs, some time to kill, But the sign there said the Labs were gone. I went back to my old CO, Where I'd had my phone lines, years ago, But it was empty, dark, and ever so forlorn... No relays pulsed, No data crooned, No MF tones did play their tunes, There wasn't a word spoken, All carrier paths were broken... And so that's how it all occurred, Microwave horns just nests for birds, Everything became so absurd, The day... Bell System... died. So bye, bye, Ma Bell, why did you die? We get static from Sprint and echo from MCI, "Our local calls have us in hock!" we all cry. Oh Ma Bell why did you have to die? Ma Bell why did you have to die? We were singing: Bye, bye, Ma Bell, why did you die? We get static from Sprint and echo from MCI, "Our local calls have us in hock!" we all cry. Oh Ma Bell why did you have to die? ------------------------ [Moderator's Note: Thank you again Lauren for the many instances of pleasure this song has given us in the Digest! For our newer readers, I would note that Lauren is a charter member of the Digest mailing list; he has been part of the group since opening day in 1981. PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #465 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id ab12484; 12 Jul 93 6:25 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA28938 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Mon, 12 Jul 1993 03:43:48 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA07784 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Mon, 12 Jul 1993 03:42:47 -0500 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 03:42:47 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307120842.AA07784@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #466 TELECOM Digest Mon, 12 Jul 93 03:42:45 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 466 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year (Rob Boudrie) Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year (John R. Levine) Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year (Raj Sanmugam) Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year (Eric Varsanyi) "It's the law" (Garrett Wollman) Re: Kerberized Cellular Phones (Andrew R. Ghali) Re: Access to Toll Records (Alan Westrope) Re: Access to Toll Records (Daniel Burstein) Who Was Randy Barrow? (Brian T. Vita) Re: Collect Calls and Call Forwarding (Douglas W. Martin) Re: Future of ISDN (Arthur Marsh) Re: Call Forward to a 1-800 Number (Joe Pace) Re: Step-by-Step Offices (Tad Cook) ---------------------- TELECOM Digest is an e-journal devoted mostly -- but not exclusively -- to discussions on voice telephony. The Digest is a not-for-profit public service published frequently by Patrick Townson Associates. PTA markets a no-surcharge telephone calling card and a no monthly fee 800 service. In addition, we are resellers of AT&T's Software Defined Network. For a detailed discussion of our services, write and ask for the file 'products'. The Digest is delivered at no charge by email to qualified subscribers on any electronic mail service connected to the Internet. To join the mail- ing list, write and tell us how you qualify: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu. All article submissions MUST be sent to our email address: telecom@eecs. nwu.edu -- NOT as replies to comp.dcom.telecom. Back issues and numerous other telephone-related files of interest are available from the Telecom Archives, using anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu. Login anonymous, then 'cd telecom-archives'. At the present time, the Digest is also ported to Usenet at the request of many readers there, where it is known as 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Use of the Digest does not require the use of our products and services. The two are separate. All articles are the responsibility of the individual authors. Organi- zations listed, if any, are for identification purposes only. The Digest is compilation-copyrighted, 1993. **DO NOT** cross-post articles between the Digest and other Usenet or alt newsgroups. Do not compile mailing lists from the net-addresses appearing herein. Send tithes and love offerings to PO Box 1570, Chicago, IL 60690. :) Phone: 312-465-2700. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) Subject: Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1993 21:44:27 GMT > I beleive more than 15% of a provider's cost goes toward fraud. This is hard to quantify, and I suspect it does not consider a few things: Fraud costs are NOT the sum total of the charges that would rightfully be owed for the unpaid calls. The fraud costs are: Costs of calls which would have otherwise been made with a toll paid to the cellular provider in the absence of fraud. (Many such calls probably would NOT have been made legitimately if that were the only option.) Costs of legitimate calls which could not be made because the bandwidth in a cell was clogged with fradulent calls. Plus indirect costs: Cost of anti-fraud program; Cost of collection and prosecution; Note: These costs are debatable with no clear answer. When totalling the amount burgularly costs the US, do we include the cost of every door lock and burgular alarm? Plus very indirect costs: Cost of business lost because potential customers are afraid of being defrauded. Workplace productivity lost while people discuss this issue on Usenet. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 10:55 EDT From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Subject: Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year Organization: I.E.C.C. >> Judges *make* law. It's the law. > They don't make law. It's a floor wax! It's a breath mint! No, it's both! Seriously, the Congress, the executive, and judges make law. It's part of the deliberate tension among the three branches of the government. In many cases, the Congress will punt lawmaking to other branches. For example, the copyright law declares that there is something called "fair use" but doesn't say what it is, letting the precise definition be hammered out in case law. (This isn't just buck-passing -- it often makes sense when they reasonably can't foresee all of a law's applications; under the older more specific copyright law software cases were being decided under a 1909 precedent involving player piano rolls.) Also, a lot of the civil law (lawsuits as opposed to than criminal prosecution) is based on common law precedents going back to medieval England. The executive gets involved by making regulations that implement various laws. That's most of what's in the Federal Register. And the courts get involved at the other end by interpreting the Constitution to forbid or require various laws. There are also various creative readings of laws either to cover an area (depending on how you look at it) that the congress didn't intend to cover, or that they would have covered had they been aware of it at the time. This is where most of the complaints about activist judges arise. For example, one of this year's hot topics is the use of the RICO law that was intended to aid prosecution of organized crime to attack groups like Operation Rescue. Thus endeth the civics lesson. So, anyway, does anyone know the actual issues in the cellular fraud case in question and on what the judge based his decision? Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl ------------------------------ From: lmcrajy@noah.ericsson.se (Raj Sanmugam) Subject: Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year Reply-To: lmcrajy@noah.ericsson.se Organization: Ericsson Communication Inc. Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1993 21:34:11 GMT Historically, when 25% of the subscribers in Holland refused to pay their bills an authentication scheme was introduced, all the mobiles were re-called and upgraded with the necessary changes and fraud was reduced to a manageable level. So, while Steve's concerns are understandable I would agree with the Moderator that something could be worked out between the carriers and the mobile manufacturers. I have heard figures nearing a billion in telecom fraud. Moreover, most mobile manufacturers have already developed dual mode phones which has authentication schemes. So, upgrading the analog phones should not cost that much more as it would be cheaper to reuse the technology. Raj ------------------------------ From: ewv@craycos.com (Eric Varsanyi) Subject: Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year Organization: Cray Computer Corporation Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 06:34:40 GMT This is pretty sad. I called Cellular One (my carrier here in CO) and asked about LA. My prefix (a small one in Colorado Springs) is completely blocked in LA. They offered to pay ALL my roaming charges (setup and calls) with PacTel Cellular on a credit card arrangement (I assume they would just credit my account). Seems like a good deal for me anyway. He told me that it was cheaper for them to give me free service than keep my prefix open and be defrauded. Scary. I asked about other markets, NY is the same as LA but at this point those are the only two that are roaming blocked from certain prefixes (from my cellular anyway). When I asked what the solution was he said they would keep giving away free calls until the digital standard took over. Based on this data I'm thinking that the carriers are going to anything they can to switch to a decent system ASAP, even if it means killing the installed base. Eric Varsanyi ewv@vars.com ------------------------------ From: Garrett.Wollman@UVM.EDU (Garrett Wollman) Subject: "It's the Law" Organization: University of Vermont, EMBA Computer Facility Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1993 23:42:54 GMT (Sorry for extending this overly-long thread...) In article andreww@defiance.vut.edu.au (Andrew Watts) writes: > Legislation is law. And it's made by politicians. Judges interpret the > law as they see it, and set legal precidents. They don't make law. Legislation, when passed according to the established procedures, is statutory law. Statutes, when interpreted by government agencies, turn into regulatory law. Statutes, Regulations, and the Constitution, when interpreted by courts, turn into Common Law (except in Louisiana). This distinction can cause some confusion to people who watch, for example, the US Supreme Court. When the Constitution is silent or unspecific about some issue, the justices can and do rely on our pre-Revolutionary heritage of British common law, a significant amount of which is still in effect here (except in Louisiana). In any event, the decisions of the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in New York are no less law than statutes passed by Congress. (Except, of course, that the Law of the Land as the Second Circuit sees it does not necessarily apply in the Ninth Circuit.) Disclaimer: my father is Deputy in Charge at the Reno divisional office of the US District Court for the District of Nevada. Garrett A. Wollman wollman@emba.uvm.edu uvm-gen!wollman UVM disagrees. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 01:13:48 EDT From: Andrew R. Ghali Subject: Re: Kerberized Cellular Phones In article , Andrew_Marc_Greene@ frankston.com writes: > Kerberos was designed for insecure systems. (Just how insecure? The > root password for public Project Athena workstations is public > knowlege.) Your (or your telephone's) password is what makes you > trusted (well, actually, it's your session key, which is transmitted > encrypted in a trapdoor function of your password); your IP (or other) > address is irrelevant to the security of the system. I from my experience with AFS and Kerberos tickets here (which is slightly tangental) Kerberos-style (actually, just the query/challenge part) authentication seems like a workable system. Tickets would be tougher to manage, especially if you turn the phone off, and hence unnecessary. The abbreviated query/challenge system should go something like this: Phone: "Hi, I'm NNN-NXX-XXXX, I'd like to make a call" Cell: "Oh yeah, prove to me that you are NNN-NXX-XXXX. Here is a session key encoded using your ESN, decode it, encode the number you want to call with it and send it back" Phone: "OK, here is the number I want to call encoded with the session key" Cell: "Looks good, here's your call, encoded with the current session key. Enjoy." Sorry for the simplicity/layman's terms -- the official Kerberos documentation is much more detailed and tougher to read and provides more functionality. Note, however, that this allows a unique "session key" that can be used to encode the digital conversation as a "freebie." Note that the ESN is never transmitted -- you have to pry it out of the physical phone, and that the entire algorithm could be implemented in the firmware of phone quite simply. On the land end, the phone's number has to be translated to the "home" system if roaming, which then has to contacted by the local system, and then the challenge is performed by the home system. It doesn't seem that this system would be too hard to implement by a new cellular carrier, who could offer better security (digital encryption of the conversation) at a lower rate because he won't have to deal with the fraud problem. Or am I just being naive? Andrew ------------------------------ From: awestrop@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alan Westrope) Subject: Re: Access to Toll Records Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 02:00:00 GMT LSREEVES@delphi.com recently wrote: > Two programs aired on PBS in 1992, "Nova" and "Adam Smith" dealt with > privacy and access to personal information. In both programs, the > example of viewing then V.P. Dan Quayle's credit report was used. > In the Adam Smith program, a person named Jeffery Rothfeder used his > "computer" to access Quayle's credit report. > What's going on here? If you really want to learn how Rothfeder accomplished this (along with other interesting stuff), you should read his book: AUTHOR : Rothfeder, Jeffrey. TITLE : Privacy for sale : how computerization has made everyone's private life an open secret New York : Simon & Schuster, c1992. 224 p. ; 25 cm. Includes bibliographical references and index. Briefly, most of it was accomplished by getting in contact with people of dubious ethics who used social engineering, payola, etc., rather than by the hacker/cracker/phreak/telecom-wizard stereotypes that the media loves to sensationalize. I found the book enjoyable, informative and, of course, frightening, although I doubt that its revelations would come as a surprise to most Digest readers. Alan Westrope awestrop@nyx.cs.du.edu adwestro@ouray.denver.colorado.edu ------------------------------ From: dannyb@panix.com (Daniel Burstein) Subject: Re: Access to Toll Records Date: 11 Jul 1993 08:26:47 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC There is (or at least may be) another route to accessing a person's long distance telephone ("toll") records. Earlier discussions in the TELECOM Digest claim that under the consent decree that broke up AT&T and gave more or less equal access to all inter-exchange carriers, an interesting aside was developed. Apparently (and I haven't independently verified this) any long distance carrier has access to the long distance calling records of any customer. This way the carrier can make marketing decisions and direction. Note that this allows carrier xyz to get your records, even though you're hooked up to abc. -If- this is true, then the number of people with access to your records goes up dramatically. BTW, what you consider to be -your- phone records are actually the telco business records, and they have -tremendous- options in releasing them to whomever they wish (i.e. the local gendarmes do -NOT- need a warrant to get your records. the telco -may- demand a warrant, but they can just as easily hand them over without legal restriction. but that's a story for another day or for alt.privacy or comp.risks ...) dannyb@panix.com [Moderator's Note: You are largely correct, but I think most telcos do require legal service be made upon them before releasing records about their customers to government authorities. And although various carriers can get the toll records of customers billed via the local telco (they cannot, obviously, demand that a carrier doing its own billing turn over its records for marketing purposes), I believe there are criminal penalties involved with the misuse of the information or its resale as it might tend to identify any one customer to unauthorized parties. This is much the way the credit bureaus are governed. Anyone who is a subscriber can use their computer and modem to pull credit bureau files for *legitimate business reasons*. But pulling a file merely to satisfy your own curiosity, or because you are running your own thing on the side (selling bureau reports) is illegal, as is (assuming you are otherwise authorized to pull credit bureau files) pulling your own personal bureau file at any time. Many Trans-Union subscribers have a large wall poster hanging right above the bureau machine: a picture of Uncle Sam with his top hat and striped clothing, a frown on his face and fingers covering his lips. The caption says "Uncle Sam wants you to keep the trust; don't divulge privileged information; don't abuse credit bureau files." I think the long distance carriers are under many of the same constraints: They get the information they need in order to conduct their business; if they were to start selling lists of the phone calls people made to the general public or other businesses they would get in a lot of trouble. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 93 10:49:12 EDT From: Brian T. Vita <70702.2233@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Who Was Randy Barrow? > Remember former Digest participant Randy Barrow from three years ago? > Don't forget the example made of Randy for other AT&T employees! For those of us new to the Digest, how about a brief recap? Brian Vita CSS, Inc. [Moderator's Note: Very briefly, Randy was a customer service represen- tative for AT&T here in the Chicago area, and a regular reader of this Digest. He wrote articles frequently. We had a thread going about a telemarketing firm here in Chicago which, while doing nothing illegal, was still a sleazy outfit. Randy used his position to pull the files on that customer and report the details of their calling patterns here. He did *not* reveal what they were paying for service, or even the exact places they called. He merely reported their calling trends over the few months prior, ie 'they make a lot of calls to the east coast in the morning, and start calling the west coast later in the day ...'; that sort of thing. AT&T Security found out he had passed along even that limited information on the customer and the company fired him. His union steward grieved, and the appeals went on for several months but the company prevailed. It was reported here in detail at the time. Unlike Randy (or other employees of AT&T) I have no agreements with the company to remain silent about things I hear ... Randy and others do as a condition of their employment. He was out on the street a day or two after his article appeared here. The information was really blaise as that stuff goes, and it was very unfortunate. At the time I quoted a security guy (we have many among our mailing list readers) who said 'AT&T employees need to be shown an example of how the company responds when proprietary information like customer records are revealed to outsiders ..." Randy made a good example alright. :( I still feel badly they canned him for such relatively innocent comments. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 08:20:36 -0700 From: martin@cod.nosc.mil (Douglas W. Martin) Subject: Re: Collect Calls and Call Forwarding If I have calls forwarded from my home, 223-xxxx to my work number, 553-xxxx, and my home number gets a collect call, which number is billed? I cannot accept collect calls at work, but am expecting to need to receive some collect calls during the day. It would seem that if the calling party calls collect to my home number, and the call is forwarded, that the home number would be billed. At least, this is what I want to happen. What actually happens in this case? Doug Martin martin@nosc.mil [Moderator's Note: The number the operator or automated equipment at the point of call origination *thought it was reaching*, i.e. the number being forwarded is where the bill goes. The person at the number where calls are being forwarded might get confused by hearing an operator ask if he will accept the charges. He can say yes, but he still won't be billed. So you are correct; your home number would be billed. Explain this to your company PBX operator, etc. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1993 23:47:40 +1000 From: Arthur@cswamp.apana.org.au (Arthur Marsh) Subject: Re: Future of ISDN Reply-To: Arthur@cswamp.apana.org.au Organization: Camelot Swamp bulletin board, Hawthorndene Sth Australia Martin McCormick wrote: > I remember hearing a telecommunications-related program on > Radio Australia during the mid eighties that discussed ISDN One Radio Australia broadcast that I remember was an interview where the then Telecom head honcho, Mel Ward, suggesting that ISDN Basic Rate would be ideal for people working from home. Not at the rates currently charged, though. Origin: Camelot Swamp MJCNA, Hawthorndene, Sth Australia (8:7000/8) Camelot Swamp bbs, data: +61-8-370-2133 reply to user@cswamp.apana.org.au ------------------------------ From: pace@usace.mil (Joe Pace) Subject: Re: Call Forward to a 1-800 Number Organization: US Army Corps of Engineers, Sacramento District Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 16:53:51 GMT I tried calling 800-235-1414 from our Intecom PBX and rather than reporting my phone number it gave the POTS number of the Pacific Bell circuit the call went out on. Do some PBX's forward the internal numbers to phone company switches, or is this not possible using conventional phone lines? Joe Pace UNIX/Networking Analyst US Army Corps of Engineers pace@usace.mil Sacramento District JPPACE@UCDAVIS.BITNET ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Step-by-Step Offices Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 10:21:56 PDT From: tad@ssc.com (Tad Cook) lsp@Panix.Com (Lee S. Parks) writes: > Well believe it or not, right in the heart of lower Manhattan is a > step-by-step exchange in the Broad Street CO. It services 212-820 and > I'm sure what other prefixes. If you have DID (as my office does) in > 212-820 it takes over 20 seconds to complete the call. NY Tel gives > conflicting dates as to when this old switch will be replaced. Is it REALLY an old stepper? I did a search for 212-820 in the NPA shareware program that has been discussed before on this forum, and discovered that the Broad Street CO is the southernmost exchange in Manhatten. Here are the other prefixes that are in the same building: 208 383 509 635 806 232 422 510 668 809 248 425 511 701 825 269 440 514 709 855 344 480 530 742 902 352 482 558 747 908 357 483 607 770 943 361 487 612 785 952 363 495 623 797 968 How could this HUGE exchange, with a potential capacity of perhaps 460,000 lines, in area with probably more phones per acre than anywhere else in the country, be served by an old stepper? Or is there more than one switch in that building? tad@ssc.com (if it bounces, use 3288544@mcimail.com) Tad Cook | Packet Amateur Radio: | Home Phone: Seattle, WA | KT7H @ N7DUO.WA.USA.NA | 206-527-4089 ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #466 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa03390; 13 Jul 93 0:03 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA03487 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Mon, 12 Jul 1993 21:31:27 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA02561 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Mon, 12 Jul 1993 21:30:03 -0500 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 21:30:03 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307130230.AA02561@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #467 TELECOM Digest Mon, 12 Jul 93 21:29:45 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 467 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson CFP 2nd Feature Interaction Workshop (H. Velthuijsen) Mitel Announces Largest Individual Sale in Company History (Paul Robinson) Has Power Company Broken Telco Monopoly on "Last Mile" (Robert Monaghan) Re: Italian Numbering Plan (Luca Parisi) End User Common Line Charges (EUCL) (Bob Schwartz) The Last A/B Phone Booths in the United Kingdom? (Peter Ilieve via N Allen) Escort Digital Cordless Telephone (David I. Dalva) Re: Electronics Now Telephone Projects (Ray Normandeau) Telecomic - Teenage Phun? (David Leibold) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 13:27:43 +0000 (GMT) From: H.Velthuijsen@research.ptt.nl (Velthuijsen H.) Subject: CFP 2nd Feature Interaction Workshop Organization: PTT Research, The Netherlands CALL FOR PARTICIPATION Second International Workshop on Feature Interactions in Telecommunications Software Systems Amsterdam, The Netherlands May 9-10, 1994 DESCRIPTION This workshop is the second in a series, whose mission is to encourage researchers from a variety of computer science specialties (software engineering, protocol engineering, distributed artificial intel- ligence, formal techniques, software testing, and distributed systems, among others) to apply their techniques to the feature interaction problem that arises in building telecommunications software systems (see the back page for a description of the problem). We welcome papers on avoiding, detecting, and/or resolving feature interactions using either analytical or structural approaches. Submissions are encouraged in (but are not limited to) the following topic areas: - Classification of feature interactions. - Modeling, reasoning, and testing techniques for detecting feature interactions. - Software platforms and architecture designs to aid in avoiding, detecting, and resolving feature interactions. - Tools and methodologies for promoting software compatibility and extensibility. - Mechanisms for managing feature interactions throughout the service life-cyle. - Management of feature interactions in PCS, ISDN, and Broadband services, as well as IN services. - Management of feature interactions in various of the operations support functions such as Service Negotiation, Service Management, and Service Assurance. - Feature Interactions and their potential impact on system Security and Safety. - Environments and automated tools for related problems in other software systems. - Management of Feature Interactions in various proposed architectures such as TMN, INA, ROSA, CASSIOPEIA, SERENITE, or PLATINA. FORMAT We hope to promote a dialogue among researchers in various related areas, as well as the designers and builders of telecommunications software. To this end, the workshop will have sessions for paper presentations, including relatively long discussion periods. Panel discussions and tool demonstrations are also planned. ATTENDANCE Workshop attendance will be limited to 90 people. Attendance will be by invitation only. Prospective attendees are asked to submit either a paper (maximum 5000 words) or a single page description of their interests and how they relate to the workshop. About 16-20 of the attendees will be asked to present talks. We will strive for an equal mix of theoretical results and practical experiences. Papers will be published in a conference proceedings. SUBMISSIONS Please send five copies of your full original paper or interest description to: Wiet Bouma PTT Research, Dr. Neher Laboratories PO Box 421 or St. Paulusstraat 4 2260 AK Leidschendam 2264 XZ Leidschendam The Netherlands The Netherlands E-mail: L.G.Bouma@research.ptt.nl Tel: +31 70 332 5457 FAX: +31 70 332 6477 IMPORTANT DATES: November 15, 1993: Submission of contributions. January 15, 1993: Notification of acceptance. February 15, 1993: Submission of camera-ready versions. WORKSHOP CO-CHAIRPERSONS Wiet Bouma & Hugo Velthuijsen (PTT, The Netherlands) PROGRAM COMMITTEE Chair: E. Jane Cameron (Bellcore, USA) Jan Bergstra (CWI and University of Amsterdam, The Netherlands) Ralph Blumenthal (Bellcore, USA) Kong Eng Cheng (Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, Australia) Bernie Cohen (City University of London, UK) Fulvio Faraci (CSELT, Italy) Robert France (Florida Atlantic University, USA) Steve German (GTE, USA) David Gill (MITRE, USA) Richard Kemmerer (UCSB, USA) Eric Kuisch (PTT Research, The Netherlands) Victor Lesser (University of Massachusetts, USA) Yow-Jian Lin (Bellcore, USA) Luigi Logrippo (University of Ottawa, Canada) Robert Milner (BNR, UK) Leo Motus (Tallinn Technical University, Estonia) Jacques Muller (CNET, France) Jan-Olof Nordenstam (ELLEMTEL, Sweden) Stott Parker (UCLA, USA) Henrikas Pranevitchius (Kaunas University of Technology, Lithuania) Lynne Presley (Bellcore, USA) Jean-Bernard Stefani (CNET, France) Greg Utas (BNR, Canada) Yasushi Wakahara (KDD R&D Laboratories, Japan) Ron Wojcik (BellSouth, USA) Pamela Zave (AT&T Bell Laboratories, USA) WORKSHOP STATEMENT The feature interaction problem has been a major obstacle to the rapid deployment of new telephone services. Telecommunications software is huge, real-time, and distributed; adding new features to a tele- communication system, like adding new functionalities to any large software system, can be very difficult. Each new feature may interact with many existing features, causing customer annoyance or total system breakdown. Traditionally, interactions were detected and re- solved on a feature by feature basis by experts who are knowledgeable on all existing features. As the number of features grows to satisfy diverse needs of customers, managing feature interactions in a single administrative domain is approaching incomprehensible complexity. In a future marketplace where features deployed in the network may be developed by different operating companies and their associated ven- dors, the traditional approach is no longer feasible. How to detect, resolve, or even prevent the occurrence of feature interactions in an open network becomes an important research issue. The feature interaction problem is not unique to telecommunications software; similar problems are encountered in any long-lived software system that requires frequent changes and additions to its func- tionality. Techniques in many related areas appear to be applicable to the management of feature interactions. Software methodologies for extensibility and compatibility, for example, could be useful for providing a structured design that can prevent many feature inter- actions from occurring. Formal specification, verification, and tes- ting techniques, being widely used in protocol engineering and software engineering, contribute a lot to the detection of inter- actions. Several causes of the problem, such as aliasing, timing, and the distribution of software components, are similar to issues in distributed systems. Cooperative problem solving, a promising approach for resolving interactions at run time, resembles distributed planning and resolution of conflicting subgoals among multiple agents in the area of distributed artificial intelligence. This workshop aims to provide an opportunity for participants to share ideas and experiences in their respective fields, and to apply their expertise to the feature interaction problem. Hugo Velthuijsen PTT Research Phone: +31 70 332 6258 P.O. box 421 Fax: +31 70 332 6477 2260 AK Leidschendam, The Netherlands Email: H.Velthuijsen@research.ptt.nl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 04:59:50 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Subject: Mitel Announces Largest Individual Sale in Company History From: Paul Robinson Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA Copied from the Mitel List MITEL ANNOUNCES LARGEST INDIVIDUAL SALE IN COMPANY HISTORY FOR SUPPLY OF 175 GX5000 SYSTEMS TO CHINA KANATA, ONTARIO, July 8, 1993 - Mitel Corporation announced today that its Public Switching Division, in association with Mitsui and Co. (Canada) Ltd., has signed the first in a series of contracts for the supply of 175 GX5000 public switching systems over the next two years valued at a total of $24.0 million (Cdn). This series of contracts represents the largest individual sale in the Company's history. The contract has been signed with the Hunan Province Countryside Telephone Exchange Bureau. An initial shipment of 73,000 lines will be completed by March of 1994. All of the systems will be manufactured at the Company's facility in Kanata, Ontario. This contract, enables Mitel to successfully enter the largest public switching market in the Far East, a market with an expected growth rate of 75 million public switching central office lines by the year 2000. In April of this year, Mitel created a separate sales organization to focus on the Asian market. John Millard, Mitel's President and Chief Executive Officer, commented, "This is an extremely exciting opportunity for Mitel. China's economic growth rate and its emphasis on developing the country's telecommunications capabililities make this area a major priority for Mitel. In fact, the Company is currently holding discussions with representatives from a number of other telephone companies within China for future business." During the first year of the contract, Mitel will establish an in-country maintenance and training facility for servicing its hardware. Mitel's Public Switching Division began operations in 1988. To date, it has installed GX5000 systems in over 15 countries around the world including the rural telephone market in North America. Mitel is an international manufacturer of business telecommunications systems, public switching systems, semiconductor and PC communications products, network enhancement and gateway products, and systems development software components. The Company, which had revenues of $423 million (Cdn) for its 1993 fiscal year, has sold in excess of 168,000 PBX systems in over 80 countries, more than any other PBX manufacturer. Contact: Bonnie Perrigard Director, Public & Investor Relations Mitel Corporation (613) 592-2122 ext. 1125 Rob Dietrich VP, Government & Public Relations Mitel Corporation (613) 592-2122 ext. 4070 ------------- Paul Robinson - TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 11:39:31 CST From: Robert Monaghan Subject: Has Power Company Broken Telco Monopoly on the "Last Mile"? Just when I was convinced that the means of bringing datacom to the consumer would be an inevitable battle between two corporate monopoly giants -- the BOCs and the Cable Industry -- another monopoly joins in -- the Power Company! Here are some details from a blurb in "ISCET Update" of June 1993 p. 8 (for non-certified electronics technicians, that is the International Society of CETs): "Spread Sprectrum Carrier" The Spread Spectrum Carrier by Intellon Corporation has provided General Electric Meter and Control with technology that enables electric meters to send and receive data over the same AC power lines that provide electricity. Spread Spectrum Carrier was developed to provide low cost, high-speed, high-reliability communications over noisy power lines and radio frequencies. GE's UCNet system will provide a two-way communication between utilities and customers. The system will implement programs for real-time pricing, load control and curtailment, and interruptable rates. The powerline communications standard for the Electronic Industries Assoc.'s Consumer Electronics Bus (CEBus) will ensure that compatible end-use equipment will be available from a number of vendors. Eventually utilities will be able to link with their customers and provide them with choices about energy use. Refrigerator defrosting, and drying cycles of the dishwasher and clothes dryer would trigger these functions automatically when energy costs are low." Given that virtually every consumer in America is somehow wired up to some power grid system, and that GE is one of the largest corporations in America (1% of the GDP in sales), it follows that they have the technology and clout to do a lot more with this high-speed, high-reliability networking system than just read our electric meters. Many of the low end automatic alarm, Point of Sale credit card validation, etc could conceivably be drained off of the other potential suppliers (ISDN D-channel, X.25 packet networks). Other services, such as stock quotations and EFS/ATM machine private line replacements, also come to mind. The silicon-based spread spectrum technology may also get so cheap, if it can be economically inserted into your consumer electric meter, as to greatly expand the potential for this technology too. If the transmitter power is below FCC minimums (e.g., 15 milliwatts with a given antenna length) we might also see some alternative broad-band telecom uses developing as well. An equally intriguing possibility is a computer network run over the powerline using spread spectrum, linked to anybody this side of the nearest transformer, and using such a cheap chipset as a replacement LAN card/NIC/cabling. Regards, BoB Monaghan vb7r0027@vm.cis.smu.edu ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Italian Numbering Plan Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 1:04:19 CEST From: Luca Parisi Paolo Bellutta reported: > Well, when I dial my friends in Italy I dial 13 to 14 digits, and I > use AT&T as long distance company. And Pat, the Moderator, replied: > let's see if its *really* more than 12 or if there is some local > code on your end, etc that is being counted as well. PAT] I must reinforce Pat's guessing. It is most likely that Paolo included in the figure he quoted all the digits he dialed, while we are talking of the CC+NN part of the number only (that is, starting from 39+). The current Numbering Plan in Italy is best described as a complete mess, but is states clearly that "The maximum lenght of a National Number is 9 (nine) digits". Given that the CC is two digits long, this accounts for up to 11 digits. The awful part of it is that the maximum lenght is specified, but the minimum is not. Therefore, in Rome there are valid telephone numbers of 4 digits (Railroad Information, e.g. is 4775) as well as residential users with numbers of 6-7-8 digits. The areacode for Rome is "6", but there are areacodes of up to 3 digits (half of them unused). On T-time we should switch to a closed, 10-digits numbering plan. Luca Parisi Rome, Italy. ------------------------------ Subject: End User Common Line Charges (EUCL). From: bob@bci.nbn.com (Bob Schwartz) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 15:21:30 PDT Organization: Bill Correctors, Inc., Marin County, California I'm looking for anyone who knows about End User Common Line Charges (EUCL's) for an ongoing project. Does anyone have a good working understanding of them: When they should or should not be applied? Has anyone ever been able to have one removed? Please contact me at (415)488-9000 or bob@bci.nbn.com. Bob Schwartz bob@bci.nbn.com Bill Correctors, Inc. +1 415 488 9000 Marin County, California ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 18:10:38 EDT From: ae446@freenet.carleton.ca (Nigel Allen) Subject: The Last A/B Phone Booths in the United Kingdom? Reply-To: ae446@freenet.carleton.ca I found the following article by Peter Ilieve in the uk.telecom newsgroup. From: peter@memex.co.uk (Peter Ilieve) Subject: Old phone box trivia Organization: Memex Information Systems Ltd, East Kilbrde, Scotland Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 12:40:30 GMT Iseem to remember a query here some time ago about old button A/B phone boxes. I think I even posted something saying I knew there was recently one still on Rum but I can't find any trace of that now. This Sunday's Sunday Times Scotland has a piece about an old button A/B box on the island of Muck. It mentions that there are 5 in total, on Muck, Rum, Soay, Canna and Papa Stoer (all islands). They are now being phased out, because they only accept the old 10p pieces and these are no longer legal tender (or won't be soon). The main part of the story is about a local woman who keeps a big jar of old 10p coins and has put a note in the box to say she has them. The photo shows a bell push mounted on the panel above the phone so this box may have some sort of party line arrangement like the one on Rum. The Rum box had something, it might even have been a crank handle, for getting dial tone and had a note warning you that if you heard some buzzing noise you should get off the line soon as it meant someone else was wanting to use it. So now you know. If you want to use one of these relics get on the ferry fast, it says you have less than a month left :-) A second order trivia question is which Soay has the box, there are several. Peter Ilieve peter@memex.co.uk ----------- Nigel Allen, Toronto, Ontario, Canada ae446@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ From: dave@TIS.COM (David I. Dalva) Subject: Escort Digital Cordless Telephone Date: 12 Jul 1993 22:14:54 GMT Organization: Trusted Information Systems, Inc. Has anybody here had any experience with the new Escort (Cincinnati Microwave) digital cordless telephone that lists for $399? How does it compare to the Tropez? Dave ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Electronics Now Telephone Projects From: ray.normandeau@factory.com (Ray Normandeau) Date: 12 Jul 93 18:01:00 GMT Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis Reply-To: ray.normandeau@factory.com (Ray Normandeau) > The other project is a phone line selector, with four phone lines > input, going to a single line output (such as an answering machine, > etc). This is not to be confused with devices to decode a distinctive > ringing cadence; this device just picks up the first call on the > incoming lines. This should also be terrific to connect a fax machine to a PC fax card so that a fax machine can more easily be used as a scanner. ------------------------------ Subject: Telecomic - Teenage Phun? From: woody Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 01:19:04 -0400 The 10 July 1993 episode of the Walnut Cove comic (seen in {The Toronto Star} among other newspapers) had a storyline in which the family phone bill was reviewed, and it turned out that the family son (Thurman) was making a number of billable calls to other "girls". The punchline was "Strange that so many of them live in the 900 area code..." David Leibold [Mpderator's Note: A nice joke, but are you just now getting it in the papers up there? We had that one some time ago here in the Digest, and it has been done with variations in other comic strips a few times over the past few years. Funny though! :) PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #467 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa05568; 13 Jul 93 1:12 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA01332 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Mon, 12 Jul 1993 22:56:59 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA20492 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Mon, 12 Jul 1993 22:56:01 -0500 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 22:56:01 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307130356.AA20492@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #468 TELECOM Digest Mon, 12 Jul 93 22:56:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 468 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Conference With Dorothy Denning: Encrypting Voice and Data (Matthew Lucas) Impairment Levels on T1 Carriers (Albert Chau) NPA Locator Shareware Program Wanted (Curtis Bohl) MCI Outage (Tad Cook) SS7 via PC Card Information Wanted (Robert P. Jaksa) "Oh No! Not This Confused Again ..." (Paul Robinson) International Twist on Adult Group Chat (Greg Trotter) Motorola Cellular Pinout Wanted (Timothy Hu) PRIVACY Forum Information (Lauren Weinstein) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 16:26:13 -0500 From: Matthew Lucas Subject: Conference With Dorothy Denning: Encrypting Voice and Data Conference Announcement: A TeleStrategies Conference with Dr. Dorothy Denning Encrypting Voice and Data: Strategies for the Future Aug. 3-4, 1993 Washington, DC Tuesday, August 3, 1993 8:30-9:00 Registration 9:00-10:30 CRYPTOGRAPHY OVERVIEW The basic concepts of cryptography and encryption, including single-key and publickey, authentication, digital signatures, key negotiation or distribution, and cryptanalysis (code breaking) will be introduced along with the Data Encryption Standard (DES), the RSA public-key system, and the Digital Signature Standard (DSS). The speaker will also discuss the need for encryption and the role of encryption in telephony and communications networks. Dr. Dorothy E. Denning, Professor and Chair of Computer Science, Georgetown University 10:30-10:45 Coffee Break 10:45-11:45 SURVEY OF ENCRYPTION PRODUCTS The speaker will survey commercial hardware and software products that contain encryption capabilities, including the types of products that are available, their relative strengths and weaknesses, and the major vendors. Jim Bidzos, President, RSA Data Security, Inc. 11:45-12:30 CELLULAR ENCRYPTION Cellular calls are especially vulnerable to eavesdropping. PrivaFone's approach, which is interoperable on cellular and land lines, will be described. Digital cellular standards that provide voice privacy and authentication for TDMA or CDMA technologies also will be discussed. Dr. Ming Lee, President, Synacomm Technology Charles Wistar, President, PrivaFone Corp. 12:30-1:45 Hosted Lunch 1:45-2:30 THE CLIPPER AND CAPSTONE CHIPS The Clipper and Capstone Chips are part of a new U.S. technology initiative to provide secure communications and legitimate law enforcement access through a key escrow system. The speakers will describe the initiative, the security functions provided by the chips, and the use of the Clipper Chip in the AT&T Telephone Security Device. William M. Agee, Manager, Secure Communication Systems - Government, AT&T Raymond G. Kammer, Acting Director, National Institute of Standards and Technology 2:30-3:00 BUSINESS CONCERNS WITH ENCRYPTION The speaker will give a snapshot of one computer security program and discuss business concerns with encryption, including practical needs and requirements, organizational constraints, operational concerns, security of the process, and balancing concerns and practical use. Randolph N. Sanovic, Manager of Computer Security Planning, Mobil Corp. 3:00-3:15 Coffee Break 3:15-4:00 USING CRYPTOGRAPHY TO ARCHITECT DISTRIBUTED OPEN SYSTEMS SECURITY: A CASE STUDY Securing networks and computers in a distributed environment presents several new challenges. The speaker will describe Bell Atlantic's enterprise-wide approach to architecting security in such an environment, showing how encryption fits into the design. Ravi Ganesan, Specialist, Security Research and Planning, Bell Atlantic 4:00-5:00 ENCRYPTION IN ELECTRONIC COMMERCE AND ELECTRONIC MAIL Encryption is becoming an integral tool for building secure applications. The speakers will discuss the use of encryption and digital signatures in Electronic Data Interchange (EDI) and Internet Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM). Michael S. Baum J.D., Principal, Independent Monitoring Dr. Stephen D. Crocker, Vice President, Trusted Information Systems, Inc. 5:00-6:00 Reception Wednesday, August 4, 1993 8:30-10:30 CRYPTOGRAPHY POLICY IN THE U.S. The speakers will discuss the Clipper and Capstone chips, law enforcement needs and the Digital Telephony proposal, export and import of encryption products, international markets, industry growth and competitiveness, and individual privacy. They will also report on the national policy review in progress. Dr. Willis H. Ware, Chair, Computer Systems Security and Privacy Advisory Board (Moderator) Jerry Berman, Executive Director, Electronic Frontier Foundation Clinton C. Brooks, Special Assistant to Director, National Security Agency Alan R. McDonald, Special Assistant (Legal) to the Assistant Director, Technical Services Division, Federal Bureau of Investigation Ilene Rosenthal, General Counsel, Software Publishers Association 10:30-10:45 Coffee Break 10:45-11:30 CRYPTOGRAPHY IN THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY In the European Community, government controls on cryptography differ across countries and affect achievement of secure open systems and, consequently, achievement of the Open Market and transborder electronic trading. The speaker will summarize the current situation in Europe, describe some of the initiatives to address the issues, and comment on the recent initiatives in the US. Christopher E. Sundt, Business Strategy Manager, ICL Secure Systems 11:30-12:15 THE FUTURE OF CRYPTOGRAPHY IN TELECOMMUNICATIONS Several fast-moving trends in telecommunications demand cryptographic solutions, including wireless transmission, multi-media conferencing, and electronic commerce. As broadcast and multiple access technologies are used increasingly for information transmission, and everyday business is carried out in "cyberspace," structures that ensure privacy, authenticity, and (often) anonymity must become part of the natural landscape. Dr. David P. Maher, Chief Scientist for AT&T Secure Communications Systems, AT&T For complete information call TeleStrategies Inc. at (703) 734-7050. ------------------------------ From: achau@mpr.ca (Albert Chau) Subject: Impairment Levels on T1 Carriers Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 18:02:00 GMT Does anybody know of any studies that investigated the performance of T1 carriers? I'd like to know what are typical BERs, frequency of slips, jitter induced errors, etc. Thanks for any help. Albert (achau@mprgate.mpr.ca) ------------------------------ From: EXTMO4H@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Missouri 4-H Youth Development Programs) Subject: NPA Locator Shareware Program Wanted Organization: University of Missouri Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 13:40:28 CDT I'm a recent subscriber to TELECOM Digest. Can someone point me to this shareware program for searching for telephone prefixes? Curtis Bohl Computer Programmer/Analyst extmo4h@mizzou1.missouri.edu 4-H Youth Development Alternate: bohlc@ext.missouri.edu Programs [Moderator's Note: They're around, although I don't have one in the Telecom Archives. What we do have in the archives is a very detailed listing of all city and country codes from around the world broken down by zones. We also have a complete NPA/exchange list for Canada. I've never put one there for the USA because of the sheer volume of data and the limitations on the archives. We do have simple programs in the archives for all USA area codes however. To visit the archives use anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu, then 'cd telecom-archives'. PAT] ------------------------------ Subject: MCI Outage Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 19:39:34 PDT From: tad@ssc.com (Tad Cook) I have been getting All Trunks Busy, or sometimes no response at all, when dialing the 800 number for MCI Mail. I tried making a few regular toll calls via MCI, and get the same response. Finally after many attempts at dialing 00 on my line that is served by MCI, I reached an operator. I assumed there was a cable cut affecting Seattle, but she said that the problem was network wide, probably flood or weather related, and should be solved soon. This was about 7:20 PM PDT Sunday night. tad@ssc.com (if it bounces, use 3288544@mcimail.com) Tad Cook | Packet Amateur Radio: | Home Phone: Seattle, WA | KT7H @ N7DUO.WA.USA.NA | 206-527-4089 ------------------------------ From: mci22@class.class.org (MCI) Subject: SS7 via PC Card Information Wanted Date: 12 Jul 1993 15:27:07 GMT Organization: C.L.A.S.S. Cooperative Library Agency for Systems and Services Please send me any information about vendors/products that provide SS7 via a PC (IBM capatible) card. Thanks, Robert P. Jaksa MCI Telecommunications Internet: rjaksa@mcimail.com Systems Eng., 0697/107 2400 N. Glenville Dr. Richardson, TX 75082 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 09:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Subject: "Oh no! Not This Confused Again ..." From: Paul Robinson Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA > Ball State University's Center for Information and Communications > Sciences (CICS), Muncie, Indiana, is launching a refereed > journal, the ICS Journal. Haven't we had enough trouble with the dual-use of the term 'ATM network'? There is a terminal operating system sold by IBM for use in full-screen and other applications on IBM Mainframes. This system is called Customer Information Control System, but everyone calls it "CICS". IBM has been selling this program for over 20 years. It's used for medium to high-volumes of transactions. Just what we need, another duplicate use of the same acronym in the same industry for two different things. This is almost as bad as Snyder's Potato Chips. Here's that story: Imagine if you will that there were two companies called AT&T or MCI, that went into the telephone business selling service under the identical name. Well, there are two companies selling "Snyder's Potato Chips." "Snyder's of Hanover, PA, Inc." and "Snyders, Inc. of Berlin, PA" Both companies indicate in explicit terms that they are totally unrelated to and will have nothing to do with the other slime. :) Both sell potato chips under the name "Snyder's". This is the kind of confusing situation we need to avoid. Paul Robinson - TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM [Moderator's Note: For quite a few years here in Chicago there was a 'Regency Hotel' in no way connected with the Hyatt chain; it was here long before the Hyatt people started any hotel properties in our town. The best way to describe the place was that it was a flophouse hotel, serving a transient, lower class type of tenant in rooms which cost (at the time) about $5 per night. All residents on a floor shared common bathroom/shower facilities, etc. When the Regency Hyatt House opened here, their telephone directory listing "Regency Hyatt" came after the listing for "Regency Hotel". To complicate matters further the flophouse people saw a distinct advantage in having the directory assistance operators confused, so they added an additional item in the directory in subsequent years called "Regency Hotel Reservations Office". Time and time and time again, people from out of town coming to Chicago (vacation, business, etc) would call to make reservations at the Regency Hyatt House; the directory assistance operators would try to be helpful and say to the caller, "...they have a number for reservations, is that what you want?" and of course the caller would say yes it was. They would call the number given by the operator which got them the Regency Hotel (flophouse) instead of the Regency Hyatt House Hotel. The Regency Hotel clerks would cheerfully make a reservation for the out of town guest and inform them that it had to be guarenteed with a credit card charge to which the caller would of course agree. They were perfectly honest about it; gave the address for *their hotel* and in fact set aside rooms as required. Of course when the visitor got to town and told the cab driver to take them to the 'Regency Hotel', they wound up at the one on Michigan Avenue, not the flophouse on Ohio Street. And of course, there was no reservation waiting for them. After sorting out the confusion, they found they were booked at the flophouse hotel. Since the flophouse hotel had given the guest the address and had never claimed to be anything else, their contention was they accepted a reservation in good faith, it was guarenteed and they were unable to refund the deposit. They were sued a few times and never lost once. They'd tell the guest, "if the phone company gave you the wrong phone number to call, then sue the phone company." The Hyatt people tried to stop the Regency Hotel from 'stealing their reservations' and for that matter from using the same name; but the flophouse owners said this was nonsense. They were in business for years before the *nice* Regency opened, and they were incorporated, had business licenses, etc. "Maybe we should sue you to make *you* quit using the name of our hotel," was their reply. Finally the Regency Hyatt House paid the Regency Hotel some unspecified sum of money to change their name to something totally different. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 02:19 CDT Subject: International Twist on Adult Group Chat From: greg@gallifrey.ucs.uoknor.edu (Greg Trotter) Organization: Gallifrey - Home of the Timelords I wasn't paying much attention when yet another ad for what sounded like an adult 900 chat service came on. They did have my full attention when the number they read off started with '011-' indicating an international call. >From what I was able to pick up and write down, the number was 011-5695-5695. That's their punctuation ... 56 is the country code for Chile. There was no detail saying how much it would cost ... naturally, since it's not a 900 number, and your tolls may vary depending on your carrier. I'd guess that the South American company is collecting a termination fee from the carrier(s) ... what I believe we would call a "Nevada Plan." I thought that that was an interesting twist on the market. Greg Trotter Norman, Oklahoma Internet: greg@gallifrey.ucs.uoknor.edu Fidonet: 1:147/63 Treknet: 87:6012/8009 I don't even represent me. [Moderator's Note: There are a lot of those around. The information provider is given a commission by the long distance carrier who in turn profits from the additional traffic which otherwise would not have been generated. We've discussed this in detail in recent months here. PAT] ------------------------------ From: timhu@ico.isc.com (Timothy Hu) Subject: Motorola Cellular Pinout Wanted Organization: Interactive Systems Corp., Boulder CO Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 21:21:04 GMT Can someone point me to a source of information where I can get the pinout of the contacts on the back of a Motorola America Series 875 Cellular phone? Cheers, Timothy Hu timhu@bou.shl.com | The intelligence (or lack of) expressed Interactive Systems Corporation | above does not necessarily reflect Resource Solutions International | that of anyone else. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 18:56 PDT From: lauren@vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein) Subject: PRIVACY Forum Information Pat, Here's the current information blurb (as you requested) regarding the PRIVACY Forum. Subscription, archive, etc. details are all included. --Lauren-- >>> What is the Internet PRIVACY Forum? <<< The Internet PRIVACY Forum is a moderated digest for the discussion and analysis of issues relating to the general topic of privacy (both personal and collective) in the "information age" of the 1990's and beyond. Topics include a wide range of telecommunications, information/database collection and sharing, and related issues, as pertains to the privacy concerns of individuals, groups, businesses, government, and society at large. The manners in which both the legitimate and the controversial concerns of business and government interact with privacy considerations are also topics for the digest. The PRIVACY Forum digest is supported in part by the ACM (Association for Computing Machinery) Committee on Computers and Public Policy. Except when unusual events warrant exceptions, digest publication is limited to no more than one or two reasonably-sized digests per week. 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For more information regarding the listserv system, follow the same command procedure described above, but send the command: help in the BODY of your message. >> GOPHER << All PRIVACY Forum materials can also be obtained through the Internet Gopher system via a gopher server on site "gopher.vortex.com". ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #468 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa08211; 13 Jul 93 2:38 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA12176 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Tue, 13 Jul 1993 00:07:06 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA25448 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Tue, 13 Jul 1993 00:06:14 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 00:06:14 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307130506.AA25448@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #469 TELECOM Digest Tue, 13 Jul 93 00:06:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 469 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson New NE Cell Developments (Douglas Scott Reuben) Ring Generator Schematic Needed (Ralph Hires) Article Excerpts: Numbering Crisis in World Zone 1 (Carl Moore) Calling Number Announcement Numbers (David Leeibold) What Was That? (Michael Covington) Re: 900 Number Portability? (Will Martin) Press 1 for a Sexy Surprise! (Phillip Dampier) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 12 Jul 1993 17:10:29 From: Douglas Scott Reuben Subject: New NE Cell Developments A number of "new" enhancements to cellular service in the Northeast: 1. Metro Mobile/CT (which tries to get away from its poor image of recent years by calling itself Bell Atlantic Mobile), has just added call- delivery to ComCast/NJ,DE, and PA. Metro Mobile CT (and I think Western Mass) customers can now get calls in all of South Jersey (except Ocean County Cellular, and maybe not Atlantic City and Vineland), as well as the Metrophone 00029 service area of Metro Philly, and all the way down into Wilmington and along the Delmarva Peninsula to Dover on the 00123 DE system. This brings auto call delivery for CT customers to include: Rhode Island and Western Mass (always had it), Boston (00007), New York Metro (00025), ComCast/South Jersey (00173-New Brunswick, 00575-Trenton, 01487-Flemington), Philly (00029), and DE (00123). Call delivery is activated by hitting *28, and deactivated by *29. Note that in all the ComCast areas, you WILL pay a daily roam charge, and ComCast bills for "ringtime", so if you let your phone ring for more than 40 secs, you will likely be billed the $3 daily and $.99 per minute charge even if you don't answer the phone! All your features should work (thanks to all the switches being Motorolas, so it was pretty easy for them to set this all up - wonder why it took so long), BUT, as of yet, calls will NOT go back to Voicemail or No-Answer- Transfer, which is a real drawback. Callers will get a ComCast "Out of Area" recording if your phone is off or you do not answer. Additionally, as with all the other Motorola-based auto call delivery systems here, if you register in ComCast, and then turn your phone off, your calls will CONTINUE to be re-routed to ComCast indefinitely! There is no timeout period after which calls go back to CT (or whatever your EMX-based home system is). So let's say you are driving from CT to DC, and you are last last active in ComCast/DE, once you hit the DC/Batimore (00013) system, you can NOT force calls back to CT for VM or NAT purposes. Moreover, you can not use Nationlink (see below), thus any EMX-based customer who roams into and then out of an auto-call delivery system will NOT be able to have calls redirected via Nationlink!. (Ie, a Boston customer goes to Western Mass [auto call delivery] and then to Vermont [Nationlink] - no luck! Nationlink won't kick in!) Oh, and I forgot, Metro finally got Nationlink, where (if the above does not apply) you can hit *31 to have calls forwarded to you in a visited system, *32 to have callers given the roam port number of where you are, or *30 to cancel the whole thing and have calls handled at your local switch, generally for VM or NAT purposes. Metro does not charge "home" airtime for Nationlink, so its similar in function and pricing to (in my opinion) the more reliable Follow Me Slowly ... err ... Roaming ... on the B side. Some A companies, like Cell One/Boston, charge home and of course roamer airtime for Nationlink calls, meaning that during the daytime you can pay as much as $1.70 per minute to receive a call over Nationlink! :( 2. SNET Cellular just added Albany and Orange County,NY to its auto-call delivery system. You are basically covered from NYC up to Albany, except for some hick B system adminstered by NYNEX in Columbia County (01516?). They don't have call delivery with anyone (not even NYNEX), and no FMR. I don't know about SNET waiving the roam surcharge there, but they do this for Boston/RI, New York, and Pittsfield. If you have Roam USA with SNET, you don't have to worry about this since you pay a flat $.75 per minute and no dialy fee wherever you roam on the B side. I suspect that they will be adding Philly and NJ soon - if your phone is active there, calls are not delivered yet, but it does recognize you are there and does other minor odd things. 3. NYNEX/NY adopted a uniform roaming policy for its auto call delivery system: $.75 per minute, plus toll, no daily charge, for INCOMING calls. (See recent ads in the _New York Times_, DON'T rely on what their inept cust. svc. tells you!). You can now get calls in: Eastern Mass (Boston)/Southern NH 00018, Rhode Island (00028), Connecticut/Western Mass (00088), Pittsfield (00068?), Albany (00068), Orange County-Poughkeepsie and Mid Hudson regions (00404/00486), New York (of course) and Northern New Jersey (00022) (does this include Western NJ, near PA?), all of southern NJ, INCLUDING Atlantic City, Ocean County, and Vineland and the Philly Metro/NE PA system (all in 00008), all of the DC/Anapolis/Baltimore system (00028). This is *significantly* more than the "A" side in NY offers, and at a lower rate for incoming calls. Note that there may be no daily charge for outgoing calls in some of the above systems (like CT), but that policy is not universal throughout the entire auto call delivery area. 4. In an effort to catch up, it SEEMS like Cell One/Boston is getting ready for auto call delivery with NY - NY's "Do Not Disturb" feature codes *35/*350 now get confirmation tones in Boston, which until a few weeks ago just got a reorder signal. NY doesn't seem to know about this (or want to talk about it), but they have said they are anxious to get a system in place with Boston, and the implementation of *35/*350 is generally a good indicator of future linkages from previous experience. 5. The B side auto call delivery system continues to be very slow at returning calls from visited systems after the mobile customer has turned his phone off. It frequently takes *four hours* before calls will go back to voicemail, and there is NOTHING (no code or feature) that a customer can hit to send the call back to VM sooner. The "A" side has the *28/*29 or *30/*350 feature to allow calls too be forced back to VM or NAT, but the "B" has nothing (I guess the Autoplex switch has trouble with this or something, or maybe NYNEX is just lazy...:/ ). Cust. Svc says that they are working on the problem, but have no idea when it will be fixed. Good job, eh? (Of course the real culprit here isn't usually inept NYNEX, it is the DOJ and MCI, et. al., who have made a big deal about BOC-owned cell cos handling interlata traffic for the return call from the visited switch to the home switch for VM and NAT treatment. So we have to wait for IS-41 Rev.X or who- knows-what before this problem is fixed on both the A and B sides, when in fact without these IMHO burdensome DOJ regs. cell cos. could fix the problem in about a minute or so [ok, a few days for NYNEX...:) ] McCaw recently said it was working on an enhancement for the NACN which will be implemented in a few months which will allow for this, so I'm interested to see if other delivery systems outside of the NACN will work this out in a similar timeframe.) Anyhow, I think that's about enough for now! Sorry about the legnth; a lot has happened since my last post. Doug dreuben@eagle.wesleyan.edu // dreuben@wesleyan.bitnet ------------------------------ From: cinpmx!bears!rhyre@hugo.att.com Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 13:07:30 EDT Subject: Ring Generator Schematic Needed Reply-To: ralphw@csc.com I purchased the recently cited (V13 #V458) issue of Electronics Now!, hoping to find a ring generator circuit in the phone line simulator. Alas, the ring generator module depicted is a 'black box' not documented in the article. I'm looking for some circuit(s) that can perform the following functions (this is essentially a simplified line card for a PBX or telco switch): 12VDC + ------[power supply] ~500mA + + + 12VDC | | 48VDC | 90VAC | | ? Audio in >------o-+-----+ |circuit| Audio out <-----o o----> TIP | | (telephone) Off-hook<-------o o----> RING ____ | | Ring >--------o-------+ TIP and RING are at 48VDC when telephone is on-hook, 12VDC when off-hook. Audio in is the mike-level output to the telephone. (Dialtone and call progress tones can also be presented through this interface.) Audio out is the mike-level signal from the telephone line. Off-hook output triggered when handset is picked up. (Off-hook will also pulse when the phone is pulse dialed). -------------- Ring input sends 90VAC, 20hz to telephone, except when Off-hook is active. (Some inexpensive phones use piezo buzzers for ringers that trigger regardless of the telephone instrument switchook, with the potential for hearing damage.) The goal of this is to build a mini-PBX/intercom that is controlled by an old PC with some audio and digital I/O boards that I have sitting around. Since I'm trying to do this on the cheap, I'll happily settle for circuits with functional limitations, such as only driving one Ringer (REN 1.0A). Ralph Hyre (ralphw@csc.com) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 17:09:09 EDT From: Carl Moore Subject: Article Excerpts: Numbering Crisis in World Zone 1 I have picked up a copy of "The Numbering Crisis in World Zone 1" by Brian Hayes. It comes under "The Information Age" in the publication "The Sciences", November-December 1992. (Brian Hayes is editor-at- large of American Scientist.) I don't recall if the article has already been in the Digest. The article points out that a Strowger step-by-step switch allows little flexibility in resolving ambiguities. In an example, it mentions that once you are able to dial between central offices, a step-by-switch would not be able to distinguish between your sister across the street on 5552 and your uncle across the river on KLondike 5-2345. (It does not say that some places were able to retain four-digit local calls within an exchange by restricting the numbers which could be used.) In the example, if the system established a tentative route to 5552, there would be no way to make the connection to KLondike 5-2345. "By 1950 seven-digit dialing had spread to much of the U.S. (though not to my grandmother's house). A telephone connected to the network had the theoretical potential of reaching five million other telephones. At the time there were fewer than fifty million telephones in the nation. [from CGM: what about Canada and the Caribbean?] Thus all that was needed, in order to allow a subscriber to reach out and touch everybody, was a factor-of-10 increase in the numbering capacity." In other words, you'd need just one extra digit. A "conservative" scheme was adopted -- the 3-digit area code. It says that the original area-code proposal was published in 1947, with 86 assigned codes, "with another fifty or so held in reserve for growth". There were 136 available codes since there was to be no N11, N10, or N00 codes. Some N11 codes were reserved for the phone company (it lists 411 for directory assistance -- no reference to "information" -- 611 for repair, 811 for the business office; later 911 added for emergency services). N00 was "designated service access codes", and it mentions toll-free 800. N10 was given to the Telex network. The N0X/N1X format came about so that extra digits were only needed for dialing long distance. "Direct distance dialing with ten-digit numbers first went into service in 1951, in Englewood, New Jersey." The scheme given for local and long- distance is 7D for local and NPA+7D for long distance (no comment offered about long-distance-within-area-code); with the possible exception of long-distance-within-area-code, this is what New Jersey had until 201 area needed N0X/N1X prefixes. This does not work with step-by-step switch, because it's necessary to remember the 1st digit while making a switching decision based on the 2nd digit; 2 solutions were tried for this problem, and what came out was 1 before area code. It's noted that if 1+ (the "+" only indicates that more digits follow) had been there from the outset, area codes wouldn't have to be restricted to N0X/N1X. [No comment about 1+7D for long distance within area code; isn't that also getting from step-by-step switch?] To account for number shortages, say in New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago: 1. expand prefixes from NNN to NNX. [from another source, I heard that there are many NN1 prefixes in Cincinnati area because that 1 was added to standardize phone number lengths] 2. expand prefixes from NNX to NXX. [this is discussed in the archive file history.of.area.splits] 3. SPLIT THE AREA CODE! "By the late 1980s it had become apparent that all 136 of the available NPA codes would soon be allocated. Growth in demand was not abating. Where could more numbers be found? A stopgap was to recover some of the N10 codes that had been assigned to the Telex network. They all were returned except 610, which is still used by the Canadian Telex system, and 710, whose function is now listed as Government Special Services. NPA codes 310, 410, and 510 are already in service, and they will soon be joined by 210 and 810. At that point World Zone 1 will have only one NPA code left: 910." [ 810 is announced, not yet in use, in Michigan; and at the beginning of this year, you saw the notes for 610 in Pa. and 910 in NC. ] For the NXX area codes, it mentions 2 possible sets of dialing instructions: continue requiring 1+ on "ten-digit" call but forbid 1+ on "seven-digit" call (does not discuss 7D vs. 1+NPA+7D for long distance within NPA) Bellcore approach is to require 10D for all calls, even local; this gets rid of 1+ [ this approach shows up in the Orange Card instructions and also in the instructions for the airplane phone ] ------------------------------ Subject: Calling Number Announcement Numbers From: woody Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 22:47:23 -0400 Reply-to: dleibold1@attmail.com Since this comes up in the Digest on occasion, and since I have a bit of time on hand, I am willing to collect a list of ANAC or auto number identifiers. When such numbers are dialed, these will read back the calling number in synthesised voice. An example in Florida (Southern Bell) is 200 222.2222 or in New York City it has been 958. I have some data on hand already, but would be interested in getting a comprehensive list set up. Numbers for outside North America would be quite welcome as well. Please mail contributions to dleibold1@attmail.com (the .io.org address may not work from everywhere yet). David Leibold [Moderator's Note: Please submit these direct to David. Do *not* send your message here. David will summarize when his list is complete. PAT] ------------------------------ From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) Subject: What Was That? Organization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 03:57:20 GMT I recently put in a Hayes Optima 144 modem (usually used at 9600 baud) and settled in for a lot of working at home during the summer. Twice now the following has happened: the modem loses carrier and, when it hangs up (which is apparently quite a few seconds after the line goes dead), my phone rings briefly (less than 1 normal ring). I pick up the phone and hear a dial tone. Once, it _may_ have been an emergency interrupt from an operator. (Our doctor was trying to reach us and I didn't know it; he did reach us later but did not mention any telephonic difficulties.) But wouldn't they let it ring until I actually answered? Or what was it? Aliens? UFOs? :) Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 14:05:59 CDT From: Will Martin Subject: Re: 900 Number Portability? Jeff Jonas wrote: > What brought this to mind is a catalogue I got with an errata slip > that reads: >"Due to sudden changes in regulations within the telephone industry, >the telephone numbers shown are incorrect ..." > I do not understand - what would cause somebody to change their 900 > number? If 900 numbers are now portable (as 800 numbers), then they > could switch carriers and keep the existing numbers. > [Moderator's Note: It is anyone's guess what the catalog meant by > 'sudden changes in regulations within the telephone industry'. If this > was a sex-catalog you were reading, it might be they could no longer > bill via 900. Also, at one point, all of AT&T's 900 numbers were org- > anized by the cost of the call. For example, calls to 900-410-xxxx > cost so much; calls to 900-234-xxxx cost so much, etc. What prefix you > got on depended on what you wanted to charge. You changed your price > and the phone number had to change. Maybe that is not the case any > longer. How about telling us the *original* numbers which are now > wrong and the *now correct* numbers printed in the errata. Maybe we > can piece together the facts from the actual numbers; figure out which > carrier operates what, etc. PAT] Heck, Pat, I'm not proud! I'll admit to getting the same catalog! :-) It's the "Adam & Eve" catalog of porn, sex toys, and related junk ... (These people claim they mail out catalogs to three million customers! I'm sure there are a lot more Telecom'ers out there who get these and won't admit it ... :-) Anyway, I usually pitch the 900-sex-call literature as soon as I get it, because I have no intention to waste my money on something as worthless as aural simulated sex, especially when the person on the other end is probably someone I'd have no interest in ever meeting in real life, and who may even be a person pretending to be of a sex they really aren't. (I refer here to that case in Nevada of the guy who sued his employer for unjustified firing or something like that; he was a male who worked as a sex-line partner, pretending to be female ...) However, in this case, I happened to get *two* of these catalogs, and hadn't opened the other one, so I still have the errata sheet Jeff referred to. All the 900 numbers are changed to other 900 numbers, so it isn't a case of switching from 900 to 800-with-callback or the like. Also, the text states that the service and price for each is the same as before, so it isn't a case of changing the number due to a rate alteration. But then the first example shown says the rate DOES change. Hmmm ... Here are the old numbers, their new replacements, the charge, and a brief description (the errata sheet is pretty poorly printed and the old numbers are lined through, so I may make an error but will try to be as accurate as possible): OLD NUMBER NEW NUMBER CHARGE DESCRIPTION 900-903-CHIC 900-568-5555 $3.50 / min. "Confess Your Darkest 2442 Secrets" (This one was "$14.95 per call" before; no time limit stated.) 900-454-6789 900-847-3825 $2 / min "Hear Christy Canyon's Intimate Fantasies" 900-903-4EVE 900-646-5555 $2.49 / min "Dial-A-Date" personal ads 900-454-4EVE 900-535-7777 $2 / min "Men Seeking Women" ads 900-896-SUSI 900-646-7825 $2.99 / min "Romantic Fantasies" 900-288-4GUY 900-847-5555 blurred "Man to Man" gay male "1 on 1 connection with real guys in your area" All of these have fine print indicating "123 Communications" as the sponsoring company, and the errata sheet is "signed" with the name "Leila Maxwell for 123 Communications". On the ones I can read, the address of "PO Box 1550, Madison Square Station, NY, NY 10159" is given, but there's a too-blurred-to-make out different address on the "Christy Canyon" one. [She's a large-breasted porn star, if anyone out there didn't know already... :-)] Here's a technical question: How do they run this business about getting connected "1-on-1 with someone in your area"? How do they know there IS someone else in "your area" calling at the same time? How do they define "your area"? Well, here's the data ... Have at it! Regards, Will [Moderator's Note: We have a file in the Telecom Archives which says what carrier is assigned to which 900 prefix. If someone wants to go to the trouble to correlate the above numbers with that list and see who the carriers were before (and are now), it might produce some interesting results. "One on one with someone in your area" simply means they ask each caller accessing that feature to punch in his area code (or they get it from the ANI possibly). Then instead of matching calls waiting in the queue with each other, they only match calls with the same area code. I'd think they must get a lot of calls in the one on one queue if the operator can guarentee a match that precisely. Of course a lot of them can't and don't care. They got your money, that's what counts! :( PAT] ------------------------------ From: phil@rochgte.fidonet.org (Phillip Dampier) Reply-To: phil@rochgte.fidonet.org Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 00:31:06 -0500 Subject: Press 1 for a Sexy Surprise! Back in early May, my voicemail spent several minutes recording a "delightful" conversation between two eager sisters who apparently wanted to do each other all over my phone line. Yes, Teleslime no longer waits for you to call, it calls you! This "Overland, Kansas" special dials your number and then taunts you repeatedly to "press one for a sexy surprise." Unfortunately, after minutes of this begathon, my voicemail alerts the caller that their time is almost up by, you guessed it, by generating a touchtone followed by a warning. Predictably, I was treated to several moments of the eager sisters before my voicemail times out. On the day this happens (Saturday morning at the same time the cartoons are on), I call Rochester Telephone (a telco that is open on Saturdays ... beg for it RBOC sufferers) and yell and scream about the latest trend in dial-a-smut lines calling at a time when any child could press one and be treated to quite an education. Rochester Tel is sympathetic and notes in my records that a subsequent call would likely be coming from me when the bill came. Well, the bill came all right. The "sexy surprise" is a bill from OVERLAND KS for an 11 (!) minute call costing a sexually significant $35.00!!! The local prostitutes here can't get $35 for 11 minutes of action. They are in the wrong business. Teleslime will do you $35.00 worth with nary a blink of the eye. I called Rochester Tel and they promptly removed the charge. I call the media whores at the NY State Department of Consumer Protection who can't wait for the collection agency to pound on my door so they can drop a lead weight on them and get free press. I even gave ole "family values" himself, Al "Senator Pothole" D'Amato copies of the relevent goodies so he can rant and rave about the moral depravity of the sleaze who calls home when Bugs Bunny is on. We're now waiting for the inevitable collection agency to contact me. Anyone else who is in the same boat, please share your horror stories. Further updates as warranted. [Moderator's Note: Overland Park, Kansas is the corporate office for Sprint, or at least it was. Sprint's information and entertainment services used to be billed as 'Entertainment, Kansas'. So Sprint is who you want to talk to about this. When this sort of thing has been reported here in the past (of a sex-IP allegedly making outbound calls without an invitation or prior business arrangement with the called party) I have suggested that either a prankster was responsible for giving out your number as the place to return the call collect, *or* that a mechanical failure occurred. By mechanical failure I mean the outbound dialer dialed what it was supposed to and either the local exchange misunderstood or the long distance carrier misunderstood. Has no one here but me ever dialed *what you knew for a fact was the correct number* and still wound up getting a wrong number because of an error in the central office? For example the outbound dialer could be set to go quite fast and 99 times out of a hundred the CO picks up on it but one time out of a hundred the CO mistranslates. I can set the dialing speed on my modem to be quite fast -- so fast it is virtually just a blur when I hear it with my ears -- and the CO will properly handle it. Other times the CO will incorrectly register it that fast. I slow down my modem dialing speed a little, and all is well. Or maybe it was an error by the intake operator at the IP, i.e. 'can we call you collect; what is your number?'; the person says 1234 and the operator writes down 1243. 1243 gets the call, 1234 waits by the phone disappointed. 1243 gets the bill cause the operator wrote that down in error, etc etc etc etc. So a couple old biddies in town get these calls in error, and suddenly we have an urban legend going around about how sex-IPs make unsolicited calls so little kids will run up the phone bill while getting an earful. I still maintain sex-IPs do not make unsolicited calls. The risks involved due to the nature of the program content are simply too great. *Anyone* should know that. So I again issue the 'Patrick Challenge': find for me an actual case of this happening -- a sex-IP who has a bunch of operators or computers or whatever sitting there dialing people at random to get them to 'push 1' or accept a collect call, etc. I don't want newspaper accounts; I don't want what some ignoramus on the television had to say about it. I want the name of an IP, and a documented example of him going through an entire exchange (the most logical way to do it I would think) one number after another making unsolicited sex calls. A report from a state prosecuting authority with docket number will also be adequate. Since Mr. Dampier got the bill, we have to assume the dialer was correctly understood by the telco and long distance carrier which handled the call. Maybe the intake operator wrote it down wrong. Among Sprint's other faults, they do not place sex calls to people who don't want them. I'm sure the charge will be credited and nothing more said about it. And by the way Mr. Dampier, Illinois Bell customer service is open 24 hours per day, seven days per week. PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #469 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa06494; 13 Jul 93 20:33 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA02363 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Tue, 13 Jul 1993 17:41:46 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA13850 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Tue, 13 Jul 1993 17:41:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 17:41:01 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307132241.AA13850@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #470 TELECOM Digest Tue, 13 Jul 93 17:41:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 470 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Summer School on Telecommunications (Vesa Ruokonen) International Workshop on Intelligent Networks (Vesa Ruokonen) Community Networking Conference (Tyson MacAulay) Question about "Dark Fiber" (Paul Robinson) Followup on Introduction to WilTel (Brian Hess) ---------------------- TELECOM Digest is an e-journal devoted mostly -- but not exclusively -- to discussions on voice telephony. The Digest is a not-for-profit public service published frequently by Patrick Townson Associates. PTA markets a no-surcharge telephone calling card and a no monthly fee 800 service. In addition, we are resellers of AT&T's Software Defined Network. For a detailed discussion of our services, write and ask for the file 'products'. The Digest is delivered at no charge by email to qualified subscribers on any electronic mail service connected to the Internet. To join the mail- ing list, write and tell us how you qualify: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu. All article submissions MUST be sent to our email address: telecom@eecs. nwu.edu -- NOT as replies to comp.dcom.telecom. Back issues and numerous other telephone-related files of interest are available from the Telecom Archives, using anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu. Login anonymous, then 'cd telecom-archives'. At the present time, the Digest is also ported to Usenet at the request of many readers there, where it is known as 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Use of the Digest does not require the use of our products and services. The two are separate. All articles are the responsibility of the individual authors. Organi- zations listed, if any, are for identification purposes only. The Digest is compilation-copyrighted, 1993. **DO NOT** cross-post articles between the Digest and other Usenet or alt newsgroups. Do not compile mailing lists from the net-addresses appearing herein. Send tithes and love offerings to PO Box 1570, Chicago, IL 60690. :) Phone: 312-465-2700. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vesa.Ruokonen@lut.fi (Vesa Ruokonen) Subject: Summer School on Telecommunications Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 21:21:40 GMT Reply-To: Vesa.Ruokonen@lut.fi Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland SUMMER SCHOOL ON TELECOMMUNICATIONS Lappeenranta 9.-13.8.1993 The Second Summer School on Telecommunications will be arranged in Lappeenranta University of Technology 9. - 13. 8. 1993. The summer school consists of four seminars and one international workshop. The seminars will be arranged in Kareltek, E-building, Laserkatu 6, Skinnarila. The workshop takes place in the University main building, auditorium 2. The Seminars start at 10.15 am each day, and the Workshop starts at 9.15 am. The language used in the presentations is English. The admission is free, the summer school is sponsored by Lappeenranta University of Technology and Telecom Finland. Because of limited space in seminars, please inform your visit schedule to Ms. Ansa Laakkonen Tel. +358 0 7098 3515, fax +358 0 7098 3526. PROGRAM: Monday 9.8. SEMINAR ON HIGH SPEED NETWORKS Chairman Prof. Jarmo Harju 10.15 Opening speech, Director Olli Martikainen, Telecom Finland 10.30 Overview of high speed network technologies, prof. Peter Martini, University of Paderborn, Germany 11.30 On traffic theoretic problems in ATM networks, Ph.D. Jorma Virtamo, Technical Research Centre of Finland 12.30 - 13.30 Lunch 13.30 Implementation of FSR - a new high speed data bus solution , Senior Research Scientist Pertti Raatikainen, Technical Research Centre of Finland 14.00 Performance of FSR, prof. Jarmo Harju, Lappeenranta University of Technology 15 - 18 Tour in the fortress and harbour of the city 18 - 21 Rantasauna by the lake Saimaa Tuesday 10.8. INTERNATIONAL WORKSHOP ON INTELLIGENT NETWORKS Chairman Director Olli Martikainen, Telecom Finland 9.15 Detailed program to be announced later Wednesday 11.8. SEMINAR ON ASN.1 LANGUAGE AND TOOLS 10.15 Lectures on ASN.1 (Basics and new features of the language), R&D Manager Ari Ahtiainen, Nokia Research Centre 11.30 - 12.30 Lunch 12.30 Lectures on the ASN.1 tool CASN, Ari Ahtiainen 14.00 Coffee 14.15 - 16.00 Demonstrations and practical exercises with CASN, Ari Ahtianen and Dipl. Eng. Markku Turunen, Nokia Research Centre Thursday 12.8. SEMINAR ON PROTOCOL SOFTWARE TOOLS Chairman Assistant prof. Jukka Paakki 10.15 A Case Study on the application of protocol software tools, Mr. Kari Grano, University of Jyvaskyla 11.00 Guidelines to a new integrated language and environment for protocol engineering, Mr. Kari Arvonen, Lappeenranta University of Technology 11.30 - 12.30 Lunch 12.30 Overview of Erlang language and tools, Mr. Mike Williams, Ellemtel Computer Science Laboratory, Sweden 13.30 Improving the telecommunications software process, Mr. Esa Kettunen, Nokia Telecommunications 14.15 Coffee 15 - 18 Rantasauna Friday 13.8. SEMINAR ON RADIO AND MOBILE NETWORKS Chairman Prof. Veikko Hara, Technical Research Centre of Finland 10.15 Title to be announced later, Mr.Jaakko Lahteenmaki, Technical Research Centre of Finland 11.00 DECT and the implementation of its call control procedures, Mr. Jari Vanttinen, Lappeenranta University of Technology 11.30 - 12.30 Lunch 12.30 Title to be announced later, prof. Veikko Hara 13.30 Parallel simulation and its application to mobile network design, M.Sc. Matti Salmi, Lappeenranta University of Technology 14.15 Coffee and close of the Summer School Olli Martikainen, Telecom Finland Jarmo Harju, Lappeenranta University of Technology Vesa.Ruokonen@lut.fi ------------------------------ From: Vesa.Ruokonen@lut.fi (Vesa Ruokonen) Subject: International Workshop on Intelligent Networks Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 21:24:18 GMT Reply-To: Vesa.Ruokonen@lut.fi Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland WORKSHOP ON INTELLIGENT NETWORKS Lappeenranta University of Technology Tuesday 10th August 1993 Lappeenranta University of Technology and Telecom Finland are hosting the International Workshop on Intelligent Networks in Lappeenranta, Finland, 10th August, 1993. The admission to the Workshop is free. Because of limited space, please send your registrations not later than July 23 to Ms. Ansa Laakkonen, PO.BOX 106, SF-00511 Helsinki, Finland, Tel. +358 0 7098 3515, Fax. +358 0 7098 3526. PROGRAM: 9.00 OLLI MARTIKAINEN, Telecom Finland Opening 9.15 LENNART SODERBERG, Ericsson Telecom Ericsson Intelligent Network Approach 9.45 KARI LAUTANALA, KARI VEIJALAINEN, Nokia Telecom Intelligent Network Architectures and Services with the DX200 Switching System 10.15 - Coffee Break 10.45 JAMES AITKEN, Logica Space and Communications Ltd An Approach to Resolving Feature Interaction in Advanced Intelligent Network Services 11.15 JOAO MOREIRA, Telefones de Lisboa e Porto, S.A. Intelligent Networks and Multimedia 11.45 TAPANI KARTTUNEN, Telecom Finland Service Creation Process 12.15 - Lunch 13.15 CARLA CAPELLMANN, HEINZ DIBOLD, Deutsche Bundespost Telekom The Object Oriented Petri Net Method for the Specification of IN Services 13.45 JORGEN NORGAARD, Tele Danmark Research An IBC Service Architecture 14.15 MARIA JANILCE B. ALMEIDA, CARLOS A. HEUSER, LIANE M.R. TAROUCO, Federal University of Rio Grande do SUL An Integrated and Intelligent Environment for Protocol Specification 14.45 - Coffee Break 15.15 PEKKA LEHTINEN, Nokia Telecom Performance and Overload Modelling of SCP and SSPs of an IN 15.35 KIMMO RAATIKAINEN, Helsinki University A Framework for Evaluating the Performance of IN Services 15.55 JUKKA AIRAKSINEN, OLLI MARTIKAINEN, JARKKO SONNINEN, HARRI TOHOHOEN, Telecom Finland UPT Service Management 16.15 TIMO METSAPORTTI, ITF Oy, SEPPO NOPPARI, Telecom Finland Alarm Management in Telecommunication Networks, Case Study 16.45 - Poster Demonstrations VALERI NAOUMOV, KONSTANTIN SAMUYLOV, PFU Moscow Portable SS#7 Implementation JORMA JAAKKOLA, HARRI TOHONEN, Telecom Finland IN Pilot System 18.45 Evening Program: Cruising Tour at Lake Saimaa starting from Lappeenranta Harbour Vesa.Ruokonen@lut.fi ------------------------------ From: tmacaula@ccs.carleton.ca (Tyson MacAulay) Subject: Community Networking Conference Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 8:31:05 EDT INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE COMMUNITY NETWORKING: THE INTERNATIONAL FREE-NET CONFERENCE AUGUST 17-19, 1993 CARLETON UNIVERSITY OTTAWA, CANADA Community computing networks offer an open door into the Information Society. Electronic highways, interactive computer mediated communications, multimedia, cyberspace? ... the real question is, how do ordinary people get connected? This is not a trivial problem. Free-Nets offer one solution. From its start in the 1980's, the Cleveland Free-Net has inspired many other projects. The concept has become an international phenomenon with Free-Nets operating in United States, Finland, New Zealand and Canada. Where do we go from here? The National Capital FreeNet,Ottawa, in association with Industry and Science Canada, is sponsoring an international conference on community networking August 17 to 19, 1993. The conference will bring people interested in community networking face-to-face to discuss four themes: 1. HOW TO START AND RUN A FREE-NET; THE ORGANIZATION OF FREE-NETS * What do we mean by community computer networking? * How to start a Free-Net * How to fund your Free-Net. * Increasing awareness about the purpose and possibilities of community computing networks. * Identifying key issues and possible responses for communities and governments in the growth of community computing networks. 2. THE SYSTEM TECHNOLOGY OF FREE-NETS * Managing FreePort software * Super users and trusted users; coordinating hands-on system development * Menu structure and page design * Security * Internet access * Software and interface standards * Programming for bilingual text * Getting the most out of Free-Net; turning members into power users * The next generation; what should the face of Free-Nets and other networks look like? 3. SUSTAINING COMMUNITY; THE USE AND IMPACT OF FREE-NETS * How do we use community computer networks as tools for community development? * Local / global? - how much internet to give members? * Censorship, privacy, copyright and other legal issues * Social issues: language, gender and cultural issues, access for the differently abled; how do we deepen participation in the life of the community? * Free-Net and the arts * Relating to governments, providing government information * Understanding Free-Net as a communications medium, not an information medium * For business and profit; commercial uses and relations * Deschooling society; learning and community networks * How to moderate online discussions; critical skills for information providers in building community 4. INTRODUCING COHERENCE INTO THE COMMUNITY NETWORK MOVEMENT. * Action planning; where does community networking go from here? * What are the necessary local, national and global links among Community networks? * Finding out who is active in the development of a network of community computing networks. * Creating learning spaces for people interested in starting and running community computing networks. * Other models for community networks and bulletin boards * CA*net and CANARIE relations with Free-Nets * Public access to high-speed networks; future telecommunications tariffs and policy * The equity issue of rural access from outside your free dialing zone * Impact research and evaluation; understanding the role of Free-nets in social change WHO SHOULD ATTEND?...ARE YOU: * Active or interested in organizing FreeNets? * Operating a FreeNet or other community bulletin board? * Interested in the social, economic, physical, and philosophical impacts of community networking? * Already a computer network user or planning to be? * Involved in community, government or public interest groups that want access to computer mediated communications and networks? * An information provider or service agent? * A private industry executive or professional from the Information Sector with an interest in broadening the base of information technology use? The agenda of the conference is action oriented. Following panel presentations by experts on the four themes, every conference participant will have the opportunity to participate in working group discussions to develop "action agendas" addressing key issues in the development of Free-Nets. The subtopics listed above are suggested as ideas for discussion, not as definitive lists of concerns. The action agendas developed by the working groups will be presented to all conference participants in a plenary session and a conference summary will be posted on FreeNet. Conference registration begins at 6:00pm, Tuesday, August 17, at the Carleton Tour and Conference Centre, University Commons Building, followed by a barbecue at 7:00pm. The official opening is 9:00am, Wednesday, August 18. Further information on program may be obtained from: Garth Graham: aa127@freenet.carleton.ca 613-253-3497 COST: Send cheque or money order for $86.25 CAD (including 15% GST/PST) to: National Capital FreeNet, International Freenet Conference Carleton University, 1125 Colonel By Drive Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1S 5B6 Accommodation is available at University residences for $27.95 / per night (Plus GST/PST of 15%). This includes breakfast. COMMUNITY NETWORKING: THE INTERNATIONAL FREE-NET CONFERENCE AUGUST 17-19 1993 * CARLETON UNIVERSITY * OTTAWA, CANADA PARTICIPANT REGISTRATION FORM _________________________________ Name: .................................................................... Organization: ............................................................ Email address: ........................................................... Postal address: .......................................................... ............................................ Postal code: ............... Telephone: ........................ Fax: ............................... I require university residence accommodation for the dates of: .......... Please return this form to: International Free-Net Conference Email: freenet_conference@freenet.carleton.ca Fax: 613-788-4448 Phone: 613-788-3947 Write: National Capital FreeNet, International Free-Net Conference Carleton University, 1125 Colonel By Drive Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1S 5B6 Garth Graham aa127@freenet.carleton.ca <<< NGL/CANIS (Community Access Network Information Services) >>> Box 86, Ashton, Ont., K0A 1B0 613-253-3497 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 01:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Subject: Question about "Dark Fiber" From: Paul Robinson Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA Gordon Cook , in the Internet Privatization list asked a question about "dark fiber" by explaining what it is then asking what is going on. The posting he made explained why the issue of "Dark Fiber" is being taken so seriously by the phone companies and the information providers. I didn't really understand the issue until I read his post. Here's the quote: The following is a direct quote from George Gilder's long article in the December 7, 1992 Forbes ASAP. Can anyone offer any pointers as to the current status of this court action? The 'Dark Fiber' Case "That need has driven EDS into an active role as an ex parte pleader in Federal Case 911416, currently bogging down in the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia as the so-called "dark fiber" case. On the surface, the case -- known as Southwestern Bell et al. v. the Federal Communications Commission and the U.S. Department of Justice -- pits four regional Bell operating companies against the FCC. But the legal maneuvers actually reflect a rising conflict between the Bells and several large corporate clients over the future of communications. Beyond all the legal posturing, the question at issue is whether fiber networks should be dumb and dark and cheap, the way EDS and other customers like them, or whether they should be bright and smart and "strategically" priced, the way the telephone companies want them. On the side of intelligence and light are the phone companies -- Southwestern Bell, U.S. West, Bell South and Bell Atlantic. The forces of darkness include key officials at the FCC and such companies as Shell Oil, the information services arm of McDonnell Douglas and long-distance network provider Wiltel, as well as EDS. Most of the four-year course of the struggle has passed unnoticed by the media. In the fall of 1990, the FCC ruled that the phone companies would have to offer dark fiber to all comers under the rules of common carriage. Rather than accept this new burden, the phone companies petitioned to withdraw from the business entirely under what is called a Rule 214 application. Since the FCC has not acted on this petition, the Bells are preparing to go to court to force the issue. Their corporate customers are ready to litigate as well. It is safe to say that none of the participants fully comprehend the significance of their courthouse confrontation. To the Bells, after all is said and done, the key problem is probably the price. Under the existing tariff, they are required to offer this service to anyone who wants it for an average price of approximately $150 per strand of fiber per mile per month. As an offering that competes with their T-3 45-megabit-per-second lines and other forthcoming marvels, dark fiber threatens to gobble up their future as vendors of broadband communications to offices, even as cable TV preempts them as broadband providers to homes. Since the Bells' profits on data are growing some 10 times as fast as their profits on voice telephony, they see dark fiber as a menace to their most promising markets." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 13:41:49 -0500 From: bnh@active.com (Brian Hess) Subject: Followup on Introduction to WilTel [Moderator's Note: The Digest recently published a short article introducing WilTel to our readers; many had not known of the company prior to the message. Mr. Hess writes with a followup. PAT] "WilTel" stands for "Williams Telecommunications", which is a spin-off of the Williams Energy Company. According to a WilTel R&D guy I talked to, the origin of WilTel was in unused pipeline capacity -- someone figured that they could just clean out an old pipeline, fill it with cable, and use existing rights-of-way for a brand new business! Brian Hess Active Ingredients, Inc. bnh@active.com (or bnh@mcimail.com) [Moderator's Note: Well, you know Sprint had the same kind of origin back in the middle 1970's. The Southern Pacific Railroad upgraded their telecommunications facilities greatly, and wound up with lots of unused capacity. Railroads years ago used to run their own telephone lines on poles along side the tracks, with 'call boxes' every five or ten miles for use by railroad employees. In addition, they connected their depots and terminals together using their own lines strung along the right-of- way. When Southern Pacific did their upgrade, they decided to sell the excess capacity to other businesses needing (presumably) better and cheaper service than what those businesses were getting from Ma Bell at the time. outhern

acific ailroad internal etwork elecommunications Sservice was the name of the entity. Like icrowave ommunications, ncorporated which started in 1968 as a small carrier handling specific business calls between Chicago and St. Louis, Sprint was originally just for businesses. You had to dial into their switch using straight seven- digit numbers, etc. They started serving residential customers sometime in the early 1980's. Sprint started mainly to copy what they saw MCI doing and making a profit at. By the year 2000, I hope another player of some significance will be PAT; ah, but that others had the faith in me that I have in myself! It is tough going. PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #470 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa08511; 13 Jul 93 21:58 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA27418 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Tue, 13 Jul 1993 18:52:02 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA30846 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Tue, 13 Jul 1993 18:51:00 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 18:51:00 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307132351.AA30846@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #471 TELECOM Digest Tue, 13 Jul 93 18:51:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 471 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Dialing Plan Questions (Bill Hofmann) Phone Numbers of PTTs in ex-USSR (Alfredo Cotroneo) New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? (Bart Z. Lederman) What Happens When ANI is NOT Delivered? (Colin Tuttle) The "Ultimate" Personal Telecom System (Patrick Goebel) Nokia P4000 Programming Info Wanted (Mike Riddle) Information Needed on Using US Phones in Germany (Mark Skelton) GSM Comes to New Zealand (Ross Douglas Alexander) ADAD Suggestions Please (Gilles Lehoux) New England/Mid Atlantic Paging (Douglas Scott Reuben) Stand-By Line From U.S. West (John C. Fowler) Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (Bryan Reece) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 11:12:15 -0700 From: wdh@netcom.com (Bill Hofmann) Subject: Dialing Plan Questions Folks, I'm looking for some information. In fact, a large amount of information. I've been doing a bunch of this research by writing PTTs in many of these countries, but, bureacracies being what they are, not many places have responded. Here's why: My company is developing software (currently for the Macintosh) which will automate dialing for travelling computer users. To do this, we need to be aware of a fair amount of information about dialing plans in many countries. Here's what I need: * City code minimum and maximum length lists of city/city codes are appreciated * Local number minimum and maximum length * Fully qualified number minimum and maximum length (LD access code + city code + number) * long distance and international direct dial access codes (if > 1, by company) e.g.: 0, 00 * long distance and international "charge" access codes (in the US, we can enter an access code + number + account number and have the call billed to our account) How are these calls made? * Is there a "dial home", " Direct" type service? How are these calls made? * What countries can (or cannot, whichever is shortest) be direct dialed? * Can a user dial a "fully qualified" number? That is, if I'm in Paris, can I dial 16,1-xxxx-xxxx (no) or if I'm in London, can I dial 071-xxx-xxxx (yes) Note, it may not be *required*, but is it possible? * Is the phone system mostly pulse dial? * Are there any anomalies in dialing? e.g., only some cities have automatic exchanges * How long will this information be valid? e.g., Norway just changed its numbering plan, UK will, Australia is in the process. Below are the countries I need the information for most of all (info about other countries is welcome, in particular about dialing fully-qualified numbers and about "charge" services). Please email information to wdh@netcom.com. BTW, if any of you are Macintosh users who travel frequently and use your modems constantly, and you'd like to beta test this product, please email me. Tell me what you do with the modem, what Mac you have, and where you travel. If anyone can suggest a good source for this information besides the PTTs or local consulates, I'd be happy to hunt it up. Countries where information is needed: Armenia (7), Azerbaijan (7), Belarus (7), Georgia (7), Kazakhstan (7), Kyrgystan (7), Russia (7), Tajikistan (7), Turkmenistan (7), Ukraine (7), Uzbekistan (7), Egypt (20), South Africa (27), Netherlands (31), Belgium (32), Balearic Islands (34), Canary Islands (34), Ceuta (34), Melilla (34), Spain (34), Bosnia and Hercegovina (38), Croatia (38), Macedonia (38), Serbia and Montenegro (38), Slovenia (38), Yugoslavia (38), Italy (39), San Marino (39), Vatican City (39), Romania (40), Liechtenstein (41), Switzerland (41), Czech Republic (42), Slovakia (42), Austria (43), Poland (48), Peru (51), Cuba (53), Brazil (55), Easter Island (56), Pitcairn Island (56), Venezuela (58), Malaysia (60), Indonesia (62), Timor (62), Philippines (63), Thailand (66), Republic of Korea (82), Vietnam (84), China (86), Tibet (86), Turkey (90), India (91), Pakistan (92), Afghanistan (93), Sri Lanka (94), Myanmar (Burma) (95), Iran (98), Algeria (213), Tunisia (216), Libya (218), Senegal (221), Mauritania (222), Mali (223), Guinea (224), Cote d'Ivoire (225), Burkina Faso (226), Niger (227), Togo (228), Benin (229), Mauritius (230), Liberia (231), Sierra Leone (232), Nigeria (234), Chad (235), Central African Republic (236), Cape Verde Islands (238), Sao Tome and Principe (239), Equatorial Guinea (240), Zaire (243), Angola (244), Guinea Bissau (245), Seychelles (248), Sudan (249), Rwanda (250), Ethiopia (251), Somalia (252), Djibouti (253), Kenya (254), Tanzania (255), Burundi (257), Reunion Island (262), Zimbabwe (263), Namibia (264), Lesotho (266), Botswana (267), Swaziland (268), Comoros (269), Saint Helena (290), Aruba (297), Faeroe Islands (298), Greenland (299), Azores (351), Madeira Islands (351), Portugal (351), Ireland (353), Cyprus (357), Finland (358), Malawi (365), Lithuania (370), Latvia (371), Estonia (372), Moldova (373), Belize (501), Guatemala (502), El Salvador (503), Honduras (504), Nicaragua (505), Costa Rica (506), Panama (507), Saint Pierre and Miquelon (508), Haiti (509), Guadeloupe (590), Bolivia (591), Ecuador (593), French Guiana (594), Paraguay (595), French Antilles (596), Martinique (596), Saint Barthelemy (596), Saint Martin (596), Suriname (597), Uruguay (598), Netherlands Antilles (599), Saipan/N. Mariana (670), Antarctica (Casey Base) (672), Antarctica (Scott Base) (672), Brunei (673), Nauru (674), Admiralty Island (675), Bougainville (675), New Britain (675), New Ireland (675), Papua New Guinea (675), Tonga (676), Solomon Islands (677), Vanuatu (678), Palau (680), Cook Islands (682), Niue Island (683), American Samoa (684), Kiribati (686), Tuvalu (688), Moorea (689), Tahiti (689), Marshall Islands (692), DPR Korea (850), Hong Kong (852), Kampuchea (855), Laos (856), Bangladesh (880), Maldives (960), Lebanon (961), Jordan (962), Syria (963), Iraq (964), Kuwait (965), Saudi Arabia (966), Yemen Arab Republic (967), Oman (968), Yemen Arab Republic (PDRY) (969), United Arab Emirates (971), Gaza Strip (972), Israel (972), West Bank (972), Bhutan (975), Mongolia (976), Nepal (977) -Bill Hofmann Fresh Software wdh@netcom.com [Moderator's Note: You can get some information on city codes for the above countries by referring to the Telecom Archives directory called 'country.codes'. I'm afraid the archives doesn't have all that you are seeking but some of it might help you. Use anonymous ftp.lcs.mit.edu, then when logged in 'cd telecom-archives/country.codes'. PAT] ------------------------------ From: A.Cotroneo@it12.bull.it (Alfredo Cotroneo) Subject: Phone Numbers of PTTs in ex-USSR Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 09:50:19 GMT I am trying to get in contact with PTT officials in Ukraine and Georgia. Does anybody have a listing of phone/fax/telex numbers of PTT offices in the newly created Administrations of countries previously part of the USSR? I am particularly interested in reaching people responsible for HF (High Frequency/Shortwave) operations originating from their respective countries. Needless to say that directory assistance thru the operator, is very difficult. I need to get in touch with the equivalent of the FCC in each of the CIS countries. Thanks for any help in this direction. Alfredo 100020.1013@compuserve.com (preferred) Alfredo E. Cotroneo, Bull HN Italia, I-20010 Pregnana Mil. work: A.Cotroneo.@it12.bull.it personal: 100020.1013@compuserve.com phone: +39-2-6779 8492 / 8427 | fax: 8289 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 08:46:07 EDT From: Bart Z. Lederman Subject: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? Another aspect of the "no radios can receive telephone calls" legislation fiasco has just occurred to me. According to the May 1993 issue of {Popular Communications}, the FCC plans to expand the upper end of the AM Broadcast band to 1700 kHz. They've already started warning services that use this band (such as the Traveller's Information Service stations now on 1610 kHz and various navigation beacons) to move. And since few receivers currently tune this range (unless you have a REALLY old radio that reaches up into the archaic "police" band), the FCC will undoubtedly pass some rule requiring manufacturers to make receivers that include these frequencies. But this frequency band was recently used for cordless telephones (before 46-49 MHz became available), and I'm sure a lot of those units are still in use. Anyone care to speculate on what is going to happen when the FCC has two rules in place: one which requires manufacturers to build receivers that cover these frequencies, and one which prohibits them from building receivers which cover these frequencies because they could be used to listen in on telephone calls? Anyone want to quote odds on the FCC levying fines on the same company twice: once for not making the receivers, and then again for making them? (Ah, now I understand! It's a conspiracy to make the Japanese pay for reducing our national debt!) Bart Z. Lederman System Resources Corp. [Moderator's Note: I think the old-style cordless phones, like the highway road conditions announcement service are going to be booted out of that frequency range. Others having to leave include the radio signal beacons on the Great Lakes which operate at 1630 KC; that is, if the broadcast band does get expanded. I don't think it is an absolutely done deal yet by any means. And bear in mind by the time all this comes to pass -- if it does -- in the next few years, the cordless phones operating around 1700 will be another two or three years older, with very few still in usable, working condition. There won't need to be any extensive modifications to new radios built for public use. Any AM radio on the market now tunes to 1630 without any hassle and it is easy enough to warp them a little so they reach 1700 without any hassle. As kids, we used to take old tube-style radios and divert the intermediate frequency, sending it out a short piece of wire which served as the transmitting antenna. By cranking it up and optimizing the way we tuned it and cut the wire, we could get a quarter or sometimes a half-watt out of those suckers ... and let everyone for two blocks around us who tuned to 1615 or 1620 KC listen to our pirate radio station. :) Better though, we found was to attach the antenna wire to one side of a telephone pair. It didn't affect the phone at all and that mile or so of wire back to the CO on overhead poles made for great transmission of our signal we thought. RF can travel along on one wire (of the pair) with a phone conversation just fine. Doing it that way, we could get several blocks away and by listening closely to the radio pick our signal out of the hash, just barely; or stand right next to a telephone pole and our signal would boom out of the little pocket radio we carried along for testing on our walks. PAT] ------------------------------ Subject: What Happens When ANI is NOT Delivered? From: ctuttle@wuntvor.pillar.com (Colin Tuttle) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 13:19:38 CDT Organization: The Eternal Apprentice BBS, Oklahoma City, Ok There has been some talk recently about the 800 number that returns ANI and is an ad for the 1-900-STOPPER service. My question is what about phone numbers that don't return ANI? We have numerous 800 numbers that come in on our T-1 line from within the State of Oklahoma. Every month we get many that are listed on the bill as the area code, prefix, and then 0000 as the suffix. Obviously the true number is not reported to our long distance carrier. Many of these are from small phone companies (non S.W. Bell) in rural areas of the state. Now, I wonder what would happen if one of these people called the 800 number that demonstrated ANI. Would it give the area code, prefix and then 0000 as the last four digits? Now, more importantly what would happen if these people called the 900 number advertised ... or any 900 number, for that matter. Since the IP doesn't receive the actual phone number of the caller, would the caller be connected, or would they be connected and then not be charged? There must be many areas of the country that have this situation. Do they get free 900 service, or are they barred from using these "services?" ctuttle@wuntvor.pillar.com (Colin Tuttle) The Eternal Apprentice BBS, Oklahoma City, OK -- +1 405 942 8794 ------------------------------ From: patrick@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Patrick Goebel) Subject: The "Ultimate" Personal Telecom System Organization: Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 07:49:47 GMT I am involved with a number of international business ventures and I would like to investigate the possibility of a state-of-the-art personal cellular telecomputing system to keep track of transactions. Since I have very little knowledge about the current state of cellular communications, please forgive the vague description of my needs. Any pointers you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Assume for the moment that money is no object. At the heart of the system would be a high-powered workstation with a cellular phone link to the rest of the planet and perhaps a leased line link to sites closer to home. The workstation would support a database of all transactions including voice and FAX. It would run 24 hours a day (equipped with at least one UPS) and would probably be under the supervision of a systems guru type. The workstation and its database software would have to be accessible under three basic scenarios: (1) WHILE SITTING AT THE CONSOLE. For this I would require an intuitive interface for accessing and modifying data in the database. Sending and receiving FAXes should be as simple as clicking a few graphical buttons. Video conferencing would be a nice plus. (2) WHILE TRAVELING INTERNATIONALLY. I envision carrying with me a compact notebook computer with built-in modem and cellular phone. Access to the home-base workstation needs to be fast (at least 9600-baud), reliable (wouldn't want to keep them waiting in the middle of a business meeting) and provide the same (or equally intuitive) interface to the database as seen at the workstation's console. (3) WHILE CYCLING. Yes, you read correctly. I spend a good part of my day riding a bicycle and working out in a gym. I envision a cellular phone/palmtop system that would fit in my jersey pocket or within a water bottle cage. For simple phone calls, I would want a headset and voice-activated microphone. Some form of handlebar mounted speed dialing system would also be essential. For more involved interactions with the home computer, I would dismount the bike and work on the palmtop. This unit should provide some simple interface to the home database so that recently received FAXes could be read (if only a few lines at a time) and simple database operations could be performed. Please keep in mind that money is currently not an issue, so anything goes. If you have any ideas how I might go about putting together such a system, please give me a shout. Many thanks! Patrick Goebel E-MAIL: patrick@casbs.Stanford.EDU Network Administrator VOICE: (415) 321-2052 CASBS, 202 Junipero Serra Blvd. FAX: (415) 321-1192 Stanford, CA 94305 BEEPER: Temporarily Out of Order... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 09:49:12 CST From: Mike.Riddle@axolotl.omahug.org (Mike Riddle) Subject: Nokia P4000 Programming Info Wanted Reply-To: mike.riddle%inns@axolotl.omahug.org Organization: Inns of Court, Papillion, NE The subject just about says it all: does anyone have information on programming the Nokia P4000 hand portable cellphone? Thanks in advance. mike.riddle@inns.omahug.org Nebraska Inns of Court +1 402 593 1192 (Data) Sysop of 1:285/27@Fidonet 3/12/24/9600 V.32/V.42bis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 16:48:19 -0400 From: mskelton@wrdis01.robins.af.mil (Mark Skelton) Subject: Information Needed on Using US Phones in Germany Does anyone have any information about the compatibility/legality of using U.S. telephones, modems and FAX machines in Germany. I remember years back when you couldn't buy anything except a Ma Bell phone in the U.S. and thought the German PTT was still the same. I have a German telephone (pulse) which works great here in the U.S., but it didn't have an RJ-11 or RJ-45 type jack. I know nothing about the ring voltage and such other things. Thanks, Mark mskelton@wrdis01.robins.af.mil ------------------------------ From: rale1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Ross Douglas Alexander) Subject: GSM Comes to New Zealand Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 22:35:43 GMT On the 11 of July BellSouth introduced GSM into New Zeland. I think at this point it only covers the Auckland Metropolitan area (but don't quote me on that). BellSouth is the second cellular carrier in NZ and the third major telephone company. Bell Atlantic and Ameritech own 49% of Telecom (it has a cellular system). MCI has a stake in Clear (our second long distance carrier) and BellSouth has how set up a second cellular system. The competetion has done wonders for toll prices (down, down, down) but because the government owns 51% of Telecom all local calls are free. With this is a inflation based limit on local line rental (which is at 1-2%). So local rental is about NZ$35 (or US$20) per month with free calls which cover the entire Auckland Metropolitan area. I don't know how this compares with the US. Here we also have some cross subsidisation from business (which does pay for local calls) to home and from urban to rural areas. Just some thoughts. 'Australian Communications' (an execelent mag, even from Oz) has expressed many doubts about GSM, especially with regard to the growing support for CDMA and the problems with GSM's very tight timing requirements. It will be interesting to see how it does. | Ross Alexander Computer Science Auckland University ------------------------------ From: Optimal.Simulation@mtlnet.org (Optimal Simulation) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 13:42:00 -0500 Subject: ADAD Suggestions Please Reply-To: optimal.simulation@mtlnet.org Hello, I am a member of a nonprofit genealogical association. Every once in a while our club secretary must call every member to tell them where and when the next meeting will be held and things like that. At one point we tried a telephone "tree" where one personne calls five others and those five each call five others and so on. But, the chain is easily broken. So ... I've started investigating into a way to use my computer and modem and possibly a cassette recorder to automate this task. I've learned that what I'm looking for is called an Automatic Dialing-Announcing Device (ADAD). The ADAD I'm looking for must perform the following. 1 - Dial up the next club member on the list 2 - If no one answers, go to 1 3 - If someone answers, play the recorded message. 4 - Goto 1 Does anyone have any information on such things as : - Hardware - Software I think the best would be a simple system, no frills, cheap, that we could assemble ourselves from parts commonly available. I have been told that Bell Canada has restrictions on ADADs. I don't think they apply to us since our members would be aware of the system and consent to being called by it. I guess I'll call Bell Canada eventually, just to make sure. Gilles Lehoux Mechanical Engineer E-mail : optimal.simulation@mtlnet.org <- preferred lehoux@nyongwa.cam.org S-mail : 294 Fere street, Saint-Eustache (Quebec), J7R 2V2, Canada V-mail : Telephone (514) 472-8128 Organization : Computer Aided Engineering contracts & misc. [Moderator's Note: You might want to investigate some software/hardware sold in the USA under the name 'BigMouth'. Not only does it make outbound calls in the manner you specify, but it also serves as a fine single- line voicemail service. It runs on a 386 or better with 640 K of RAM and maybe 60-100K hard drive to store phrases and mailbox messages. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 1993 17:01:52 From: Douglas Scott Reuben Subject: New England/Mid Atlantic Paging I've finally given in an decided to supplement my carphone with a pager. I'd like to get a NYC number (917 I guess, although Westchester/914 would be good too), annd have numeric paging from DC to Boston, AND Western Mass, Vermont, NH, and eastern PA (Allentown, Lancaster, as far west as Harrisburg.) Do I need to go with SkyTel or one of those nationwide guys, or can I just get "regional" service and bunch a few regions together? (IE, bundle mid-Atlantic with New England with Vermont/NH, etc.) Any reccommendations on pagers or companies? Any frequencies better than others? I intend to be outside most of the time, so reaching me in the subway or whatever isn't an important consideration. Would a 400MHz pager work better in the more rural areas than 900? Or is there little difference? (I'm much more familiar with lower-powered cellular service, so I am not sure if frequency is an important consideration for pagers. If anyone can offer any help, I'd appreciate hearing from you! Thanks, -Doug dreuben@eagle.wesleyan.edu dreuben@wesleyan.bitnet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 01:29 GMT From: John C. Fowler <0003513813@mcimail.com> Subject: Stand-By Line From U.S. West There was an advertisement in the newspaper today for a service I'd never heard of. Here's the ad: WHICH WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE STANDING BY, A PHONE LINE OR A CUSTOMER? Introducing Stand-By (sm) Line from U.S. West Now your business can have all the advantages of another line without the usual expense. With Stand-By Line, the monthly rate is about half the cost of a regular line. After that, you're only charged about a nickel for each minute you use. So it's a good way to manage phone costs while keeping up with a growing business. Stand-By Line is ideal for a fax, modem, or credit card verification, and for overflow customer calls during busy times. So call the Small Business Group at U.S. West today. We'll be standing by. [end of ad] My question is: what is this? Is it just a regular phone line with a different pricing scheme? Given that they're advocating using it for incoming calls, does the per-minute charge apply to those as well? We got CLASS features recently: is there something about this deal that requires CLASS? I'm not a business: just a curious consumer. John C. Fowler, 3513813@mcimail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 01:15 From: reece@kd4lon.speedway.net (bryan reece) Subject: Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 In comp.dcom.telecom Carl Moore writes: >There was a note in the Digest recently about 711 being used for >self-ring in area 412 in western Pennsylvania. Anyone else ever hear >anything regarding any usage of 711? In Durham, NC, (919 286) the local carrier uses 711 to read back the number of the calling telephone (like 311 in most other areas does). Bryan Reece PGP key ID=72D873 ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #471 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa09487; 13 Jul 93 22:36 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA29026 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Tue, 13 Jul 1993 19:48:47 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA27214 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Tue, 13 Jul 1993 19:48:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 19:48:01 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307140048.AA27214@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #472 TELECOM Digest Tue, 13 Jul 93 19:48:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 472 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: Conversion From UTM to Geographical Coordinates (Dale Chayes) Re: Answering Machine and Fax Marriages - Can They Work? (Joel Snyder) Re: Beep at Start of International Calls (Miguel Cruz) What's Going on With Payphone 2000? (Miguel Cruz) Why Can't I Call 800 Numbers Internationally? (Miguel Cruz) Caller ID (Miscellaneous Topics) (Herb Weiner) Addresses of Companies Offering Callback Service? (Tony Lim) Transcontinental Propagation Delay (Jonathan Edwards) Movie Review: {Line of Fire} and Telecom (Robert L. McMillin) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dale@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu (Dale Chayes) Subject: Re: Conversion From UTM to Geographical Coordinates Reply-To: dale@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu Organization: Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 16:53:38 GMT In article 17@eecs.nwu.edu, Samir Soliman writes: > Does anyone know how the conversion from UTM to geographical > coordinates is done? There is a USGS (U.S. Geological Survey) software package that does various kinds of map conversions. It does UTM to and from geodetic coordinate systems (and lots of other stuff.) The compressed tar archive is 99 kbytes. I can (probably) put it out for anonymous ftp if there is interest. In the mean time, I'll check and see if its distributable. >From the README file: For more complete desription of 'proj' see: "Cartographic Projection Procedures for the UNIX Environment---A User's Manual" by G.I.Evenden, USGS Open-File Report 90-284. A copy can be obtained from: USGS Books and Reports Sales Federal Center, Box 25425 Denver, CO 80225 (303) 236-7476 FTS 776-7476 or from the author. Here is the 'man' page: PROJ(1) USER COMMANDS PROJ(1) NAME proj - forward cartographic projection filter invproj - inverse cartographic projection filter SYNOPSIS proj [ -bcefimorstTwW [ args ] ] [ +args ] file[s] invproj [ -bcefimorstTwW [ args ] ] [ +args ] file[s] DESCRIPTION Proj and invproj perform respective forward and inverse transformation of cartographic data to or from cartesian data with a wide range of selectable projection functions. The following control parameters can appear in any order: -b Special option for binary coordinate data input and output through standard input and standard output. Data is assumed to be in system type double floating point words. This option is to be used when proj is a son process and allows bypassing formatting operations. -i Selects binary input only (see -b option). -o Selects binary output only (see -b option). -ta A specifies a character employed as the first character to denote a control line to be passed through without processing. This option applicable to ascii input only. (# is the default value). -e string String is an arbitrary string to be output if an error is detected during data transformations. The default value is: *\t*. Note that if the -b, -i or -o options both return values. -c file File is the source file name of additional + option control data for the projection procedures. -r This options reverses the order of the expected input from longitude-latitude or x-y to latitude-longitude or y-x. -s This options reverses the order of the output from x-y or longitude-latitude to y-x or latitude-longitude. -m mult The cartesian data may be scaled by the mult parameter. When processing data in a forward projection mode the cartesian output values are multiplied by mult other- wise the input cartesian values are divided by mult be- fore inverse projection. If the first two characters of mult are 1/ or 1: then the reciprocal value of mult is employed. -f format Format is a printf format string to control the form of the output values. For inverse projections, the output will be in degrees when this option is employed. If a format is specified for inverse projection the output data will be in decimal degrees. The default format is %.2f for forward projection and DMS for inverse. -[w|W]n N is the number of significant fractional digits to em- ploy for seconds output (when the option is not speci- fied, -w3 is assumed). When -W is employed the fields will be constant width with leading zeroes. -T ulow,uhi,vlow,vhi,res[,umax,vmax] This option creates a set of bivariate Chebyshev poly- nomial coefficients that approximate the selected car- tographic projection on stdout. The values low and hi denote the range of the input where the u or v prefixes apply to respective longitude-x or latitude-y depending upon whether a forward or inverse projection is select- ed. Res is an integer number specifying the power of 10 precision of the approximation. For example, a res of -3 specifies an approximation accuracy better than .001. Umax, and vmax specify maximum degree of the po- lynomials (default: 15). See also: fproj(1). The +args run-line arguments are associated with cartograph- ic parameters and usage varies with projection and for a complete description see Cartographic Projection Procedures for the UNIX Environment-A User's Manual ) They may be ei- ther entered on the run line where they must be preceeded by the + symbol or specified in the file reference by the -c option where the + prefix is optional. The options are pro- cessed in left to right order from the run line followed by processing the entries in the -c file. Reentry of an option is ignored with the first occurance assumed to be the desired value. One or more files (processed in left to right order) specify the source of data to be transformed. A - will specify the location of processing standard input. If no files are specified, the input is assumed to be from stdin. For ASCII input data the two data values must be in the first two white space separated fields and when both input and output are ASCII all trailing portions of the input line are ap- pended to the output line. Input geographic data (longitude and latitude) must be in DMS format and input cartesian data must be in units con- sistent with the ellipsoid major axis or sphere radius un- its. Output geographic coordinates will be in DMS (if the -w switch is not employed) and precise to 0.001" with trail- ing, zero-valued minute-second fields deleted. EXAMPLE The following script proj +proj=utm +lon_0=112w -r <, Eddie Corns writes: > Hi, I am posting this query on behalf of a friend trying to run a > small business. He has currently one telephone line and an answering > machine. He would like to also add a fax machine and wants to find > the most viable options. > If he tries to put them on the same line I presume he needs some kind > of manager box that discriminates fax callers from others. My limited > knowledge of telephony suggests this is done by the bleepy noise the > caller gives when connection is established. [some text deleted] There are two main ways to do this. A lot of the choice depends on what kind of FAX traffic he's expecting. If, like most small businesses, he thinks that random people may call him up and expect to FAX things to him without any notice, then this post is appropriate. Of the two ways, one of them works 100% all of the time, and leads to happy customers. The other one works only some of the time, which is no way to run a business. The basic problem with modem calls (a FAX call is essentially a modem call) is that the calling modem expects the answering modem to make a noise of some sort. If the calling modem made a noise, that would make things a whole lot easier for budget-minded folks. Anyway, some FAX machines will actually make a noise on calling called a "CNG" tone. But this tone only comes with auto-dial calls. Since most impromptu FAXes are not autodialed, but are manually dialed (i.e., you punch in the number as it's going over the line), you cannot count on getting a CNG tone. It is for these reasons that all of the solutions which are based on a "magic" box that you buy that automatically discriminates FAX from voice (and even from modem) calls only work some of the time. It's just not possible to tell, without making any noise, what kind of thing (person, FAX, modem) is calling you. However, all is not lost. You can do this by MAKING the guy at the other end tell you. One way is by having two phone lines (that's expensive, or relatively more so). Another way is by having something called Distinctive Ringing (your telephone company may have another name for it). With distinctive ringing, you get a single telephone line, but that line has multiple numbers. When someone calls number #1, the line rings normally. When someone calls number two, the line rings with two short rings instead of one long one. Some phone companies offer up to four numbers on a single line, all with distinctive ringing cadences. Distinctive ringing costs $5/additional number in my calling area, per month. Installation is low, about $15. There are boxes which can reliably determine which number has been dialed and then route the call accordingly -- as long as you have distinctive ringing. Let's say you have two phone numbers, one for voice and one for data, using distinctive ringing on the same line. You plug the telephone line into one of these box's "IN" port. Then, you plug your answering machine/voice telephone into the "LINE 1" out port. And plug your FAX machine into the "LINE 2" out port. It works beautifully. If you don't believe me, try and send me a FAX, and see if I answer the phone. Boxes. I have heard of three boxes. The one I buy for my clients and use regularly is the Autoline Plus from ITS Communications (800-333-0802) is available for $150, and supports three devices. The Ring Director is available from Hello Direct (800-444-3556) and does the same thing for $100, but only supports two devices. I saw a box in the J&R Catalog as well for about $80. Joel M Snyder, 1103 East Spring Street, Tucson, AZ, 85719 +1 602 882 4094 (voice) 882 4095 (FAX) 882 4093 (data) jms@Opus1.COM Opus One ------------------------------ From: miguel@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Miguel Cruz) Subject: Re: Beep at Start of International Calls Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 19:06:04 GMT In article Liron Lightwood writes: >> Almost certainly the beep on calls from abroad is a "bug not a feature". >> I suspect it's a very short burst of the 2600 Hz that is still used on >> MF trunks as a supervisory signal. > I have noticed this beep whenever dialing international calls from > here in Australia. Does this beep always occur in other countries > too? At least here in Australia, the beeps (three little pips) are there to tell the people you are calling that you are paying a lot of money for that call, so they darn well better talk fast and not waste your time. They last about two seconds and since people can't really talk through them (they're pretty loud), we figure that Telecom Australia must make some number of millions of dollars a year by having them (they bill by the second). The competing carrier, Optus, doesn't have them and nobody seems to miss them much. If you're calling your relatives, they already know where you live and they're not likely to be terribly enlightened by these beeps. If you're making a business call you probably aren't that concerned with getting that extra note of urgency. ------------------------------ From: miguel@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Miguel Cruz) Subject: What's Going on With Payphone 2000? Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 19:06:04 GMT The last time I was in the USA, I noticed at several airports these AT&T Payphone 2000 things with 24x80 screens and full keyboards. Pretty excited by this (we just got call waiting in Australia), I punched in my Sprint card number (Sprint was the only US company willing to give me a calling card when I didn't have phone service, or even reside, in the US -- MCI and AT&T laughed at me) and it was rejected -- apparently they only take AT&T cards even though for some reason I thought they were interchangeable. So I called a friend from a different phone and asked for her AT&T card number and tried that, only to find that the data terminal functions of the Payphone 2000 are in fact fictional (presumably to begin working sometime around the year 2000). Does anyone know what the story is with these? They seem like a fairly expensive investment to be dropping in airports (I saw them in four or five big cities in the space of a couple weeks) without getting extra revenue from them ... and I don't see what would be stopping them from working -- either the thing has the proper hardware to do data communications (modem calls) or it doesn't. [Moderator's Note: Payphone 2000 was halted when the Judge got in a snit about it. Other companies had claimed it was unfair that AT&T had this nice product out on the market and they didn't, so they told the judge to make AT&T stop. He did; the rest of us do without until the competitors can catch up with AT&T or the competitors run out of stalling tactics and legal technicalities. PAT] ------------------------------ From: miguel@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Miguel Cruz) Subject: Why Can't I Call 800 Numbers Internationally? Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 19:06:04 GMT Often I see ads in US magazines and newspapers where only 800 numbers are provided. Near as I can tell, there is NO WAY whatsoever to call these numbers from Australia. Why is this? I would be perfectly willing to pay Sprint or MCI or AT&T or whomever normal international rates, but their operators will not complete the calls for me. Best luck I've had is with MCI, whose customer service people (after being transferred to there from the MCI USA Direct number) will occasionally become eventually exasperated with me and connect the call for free. But this seems like a really silly limitation. Why won't, say, Sprint, let me pay them the normal Australia -> USA rate and connect me to an 800 number? Surely it doesn't cost them any more, probably it's cheaper for them. Miguel Cruz National Computer Hotline Sydney, Australia Fax: +61 2283 4313 mnc@umich.edu [Moderator's Note: The main reason is because the company which owns the 800 number has told the carrier they do *not* want calls from outside the USA for whatever reason. If the company is unable to sell to you (customs, tax or legal considerations) or finds it uneconomical to sell to you, they see no reason to talk to you and prefer not to, atleast if they are paying for the call, or some portion of it. If they find it in their best interest to pay for calls from international points (or even split the charges with an international caller) they will have their 800 number configured to do that. I'm not saying all USA companies operate in a sensible manner in this regard (I've seen some who sent advertisements overseas showing *only* their domestic 800 number -- talk about a waste of advertising money!), but I am saying that 800 service is designed to permit the receiver of the call to receive (and pay for) only those calls he wants, regardless of how stupid that decision may be. PAT] ------------------------------ Subject: Caller ID (Miscellaneous Topics) Organization: Kitchen Wisdom Publishing Company, Portland, Oregon, USA Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 12:08:50 PDT From: Herb Weiner I have Caller ID service provided by US West Communications in Portland, Oregon. The following are some miscellaneous questions and observations: 1. What is the source for the database of names delivered to the Caller ID display unit? It seems reasonable that this database would be copied from (or generated based on) either the white pages directory listings or the customer billing information. However, based on the following two discrepancies, this appears not to be the case: a. The name displayed for one frequent caller is COMPLETELY wrong. (There isn't even a single letter in common between the displayed name and the correct name.) The caller has had that phone number more than six months. I do not know if the displayed name belongs to a previous owner of that phone number, but the most recent white pages (Dec 1992) do not have a listing for the displayed name and number. b. Another frequent caller (George) has his name displayed as GEROGE (a simple transposition). I called up telephone repair service to report the first problem. The agent who took the report didn't understand the problem (she thought the problem was related to my phone number, and was reluctant to include the caller's phone number in the report). She said she'd turn in a trouble report, but the problem was not fixed. A week later, I called up US West's toll free number (800) 922-0686 to report the problem. The agent I spoke with (Doug) understood the problem, but didn't know how to report it. He did not know the source of the database or why the information would be wrong. He promised to investigate, however. I called back the next day and spoke to Doug again. He said he had located the appropriate phone number for reporting the problem, and would submit the problem report. He told me to allow four business days for the problem to be corrected. However, he would not give me the phone number, and told me that any further problems I discovered should be reported directly to him. (I hope he doesn't leave, otherwise I'll have to train a new agent.) Anyway, five full business days later, the problem still has not been corrected. Can I claim credit on my bill for my malfunctioning caller ID service that has not yet been repaired? :-) I'm saving the second problem (GEROGE) in case I need to perform additional experiments in the future. 2. Call Rejection (*60) allows me to reject calls from up to 15 numbers. (So far, I've added two numbers to my Reject list. Both of these are people I don't know, who previously had mistakenly reached my number frequently. What a WONDERFUL way to deal with persistent wrong numbers.) One of the features of Call Rejection is that I can add the last caller to my Reject list, even if the caller had blocked their number. However, as far as I can tell, there is no way, ever, to remove a number from the Reject list without knowing the number. Therefore, it would theoretically be possible to fill up your reject list with anonymous callers, and have no way to clear it out. Am I missing something here, or is this really possible? 3. US West does not currently offer Anonymous Call Rejection. I believe this is available in other areas (*77 and *87). Does anyone know whether it is political, technical, or economic reasons that prevent US West from offering this? 4. Since Anonymous Call Rejection is not available from the central office, I connected a Colonial Data Technologies (80 Pickett District Road, New Milford, CT 06776, (203) 355-3178) Caller ID 370 Deluxe Caller ID Display with "Block the Blocker". (I purchased this at Sears.) If Privacy Block is turned on, this unit intercepts all Private calls after the first ring (after the Caller ID data is received), plays the message "This party will not accept blocked calls", and hangs up. I've had one of my callers complain about "the rude guy" who answers my phone now. Note that this Caller ID Display unit has crummy display (low contrast) and an inferior user interface. The ONLY reason I use it is for the "Privacy Block" feature. Herb Weiner ------------------------------ From: lin@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Tony Lim) Subject: Addresses of Companies Offering Callback Service? Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia. Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 23:37:07 GMT Hi, there, There are some articles here recently about callback service. Would anyone on the net kindly provide me the address and phone/fax numbers for the following companies which offer these services? I read about these companies from a recent article published in {Computerworld Australia}. The article was quoting a report from TeleChoice, a company in USA. Viatel Telenational of Omaha Telegroup of Fairfield, Iowa Thanks in advance. Tony Lim lin@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au ------------------------------ From: edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards) Subject: Transcontinental Propagation Delay Organization: IntraNet, Inc. Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 23:21:33 GMT I am configuring a link between SF and NY over T1 lines. Can anyone tell me how to estimate the propagation delay I will experience? As the photon flies (in vacuum), it is 16ms. But propagation through copper and fiber is slower, right? And the lines will likely not follow the shortest path. And perhaps repeaters and muxes might add latency. Either the answer or a pointer to a reference would be appreciated. Jonathan Edwards edwards@intranet.com IntraNet, Inc 617-527-7020 ------------------------------ From: rlm@helen.surfcty.com (Robert L. McMillin) Subject: Movie Review: {Line of Fire} and Telecom Sender: rlm@helen.surfcty.com (Robert L. McMillin) Organization: Surf City Software/TBFW Project Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 03:35:10 GMT I just got back from Clint Eastwood's new movie, {In The Line of Fire} (definitely worth the money). One of the early plot points involves the would-be assassin munging the phones to present a false ANI number to the Feds. Now, since in-band signalling has just about disappeared, this would seem to be damn well impossible, unless our friend has a in at the CO. Am I wrong? (Incidentally, this isn't the only place where the movie drifts into fantasy ... a 60-something-year-old man with a woman half his age? Ah, Hollywood!) Robert L. McMillin | Surf City Software | rlm@helen.surfcty.com ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #472 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa12533; 14 Jul 93 0:27 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA24391 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Tue, 13 Jul 1993 21:53:04 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA26426 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Tue, 13 Jul 1993 21:51:31 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 21:51:31 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307140251.AA26426@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #473 TELECOM Digest Tue, 13 Jul 93 21:51:30 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 473 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: Can I Use Telnet Over a Satellite Link? (Josh Backon) Re: Charging, Accounting, Billing (Harold Hallikainen) Re: Color Codes For POTS Multiconductor Wiring (Bill Campbell) Re: New York Telephone Outage (Phiber Optik) Re: Switching Red/Green to Black/Yellow (Seth B. Rothenberg) Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? (Joel Snyder) Re: How to Get EIA/TIA Standards? (William T. Sykes) Re: Incident at a COCOT (Justin Greene) Re: Incident at a COCOT (10xxx) (Marshall Levin) Re: Future of ISDN (Thomas Chen) Looking For Devices to Dial *67 and Route Calls (Steve Corso) Memory Effect (Cliff Sharp) 800 Translation Questions (Justin Greene) ---------------------- TELECOM Digest is an e-journal devoted mostly -- but not exclusively -- to discussions on voice telephony. The Digest is a not-for-profit public service published frequently by Patrick Townson Associates. PTA markets a no-surcharge telephone calling card and a no monthly fee 800 service. In addition, we are resellers of AT&T's Software Defined Network. For a detailed discussion of our services, write and ask for the file 'products'. The Digest is delivered at no charge by email to qualified subscribers on any electronic mail service connected to the Internet. To join the mail- ing list, write and tell us how you qualify: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu. All article submissions MUST be sent to our email address: telecom@eecs. nwu.edu -- NOT as replies to comp.dcom.telecom. Back issues and numerous other telephone-related files of interest are available from the Telecom Archives, using anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu. Login anonymous, then 'cd telecom-archives'. At the present time, the Digest is also ported to Usenet at the request of many readers there, where it is known as 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Use of the Digest does not require the use of our products and services. The two are separate. All articles are the responsibility of the individual authors. Organi- zations listed, if any, are for identification purposes only. The Digest is compilation-copyrighted, 1993. **DO NOT** cross-post articles between the Digest and other Usenet or alt newsgroups. Do not compile mailing lists from the net-addresses appearing herein. Send tithes and love offerings to PO Box 1570, Chicago, IL 60690. :) Phone: 312-465-2700. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il Subject: Re: Can I Use Telnet Over a Satellite Link? Date: 13 Jul 93 18:06:40 GMT Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem In article , Rogelio Montanana writes: > We are a group of four Universities that want to be connected by high > speed links (2 Mb or higher), without using the PTT services, that > happen to be very expensive in Spain. The topology would be a star > with three links, the distances varying from about 8 Km to about 100 > Km. The main protocol used is TCP/IP. If your country allows spread spectrum digital radio microwave *without* requiring a license, this would be the ideal solution and it would entail a one-time cost of under $50,000. It could be set up within a very short time and could handle up to 6 T1 slots in the 5.8 GHz band. Point-to-point links are line of sight to around 65 kilometers. The cost per site is $11,000. > Talking with telecommunication specialists they recommend satellite > links (they call it VSAT); I remember to have read somewhere that > satellite links introduce long delays in the packets sent (something > between half a second and two seconds maybe?). It worries me because, > for example, using telnet with remote echo means two packets sent per > key, and half a second delay would be unacceptable in this situation. > The specialists claim that it is no problem, but I am not so sure. In Israel, most of our Internet traffic goes via satellite and the *delay* is only somewhat annoying. You get used to it. Josh backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL ------------------------------ From: hhallika@tuba.calpoly.edu (Harold Hallikainen) Subject: Re: Charging, Accounting, Billing Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 16:10:49 GMT In article R.A.J.Reijmerink@research. ptt.nl (Robert Reijmerink) writes: > In the Netherlands, direct charging is now conducted by means of > sending 50 Hz meter pulses to the calling party's terminal. We are > looking for alternative ways of sending cost data to user's terminals. > Choosing a widely used solution is of importance and therefore we > would like to have a view of some methods used for direct charging in > other countries. This reminds me of some recent correspondence I had regarding "1 means toll call". I was told that in Australia you get a few beeps sometime before call setup completion, or just as call setup is completed, indicating the call is going to cost. I suggested another approach might be to use the caller id data stream. During call setup, the local switch could send call costing data (initial period cost, additional period cost, etc.). This would be received by a caller id type computer with a clock in it. Once the call is connected, the display could show you how much money you are spending. For those without such a display, the data stream would be heard, indicating this call is gonna cost. Other uses for the caller id data stream include directed inward dialing and distinctive ringing (really about the same thing?). It seems much easier to demodulate an FSK data stream to find out which phone number the caller wants instead of trying to time strange ring patterns. Once ISDN is in place, all this data can be sent down the low speed data channel. But for now, it seems like the caller id data channel has a lot of possibilities. Harold Hallikainen ap621@Cleveland.Freenet.edu Hallikainen & Friends, Inc. hhallika@oboe.calpoly.edu 141 Suburban Road, Bldg E4 phone 805 541 0200 fax 544 6715 San Luis Obispo, CA 93401-7590 telex 4932775 HFI UI ------------------------------ From: billc@glacier.sierra.com (Bill Campbell) Subject: Re: Color Codes For POTS Multiconductor Wiring Organization: Sierra Geophysics, Inc. Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 18:44:56 GMT On Tue, 29 Jun 1993 23:56:20 GMT, scott@ryptyde.nix.com said: > I need to know what colors of a six-pair cable are which (i.e., > green is pair one, red is pair two, etc.). > I talked with PacBell service about it, and they claimed that there > wasn't any documentation on how the wiring should be. The tech did > try to recall some of the colored pairs off the top of her head, but > it wasn't much of a help. I have no idea if this convention is used anywhere but in the US, but here you go (courtesy of "Step-By-Step Telephone Installation and Repair", by Joe G. Pena, TAB Books, Inc. [1986], ISBN 0-8306-1984-4) Pair Color Code (2-pair) - -- ---------- -------- 1 white-blue,blue-white green,red 2 white-orange,orange-white black,yellow 3 white-green,green-white 4 white-brown,brown-white 5 white-slate,slate-white 6 red-blue,blue-red 7 red-orange,orange-red 8 red-green,green-red 9 red-brown,brown-red 10 red-slate,slate-red 11 black-blue,blue-black 12 black-orange,orange-black 13 black-green,green-black 14 black-brown,brown-black 15 black-slate,slate-black 16 yellow-blue,blue-yellow 17 yellow-orange,orange-yellow 18 yellow-green,green-yellow 19 yellow-brown,brown-yellow 20 yellow-slate,slate-yellow 21 violet-blue,blue-violet 22 violet-orange,orange-violet 23 violet-green,green-violet 24 violet-brown,brown-violet 25 violet-slate,slate-violet The fact that there is a pattern to the assignments should not escape observation. * Bill Campbell Software Engineer * Halliburton Energy Services billc@sierra.com #include ------------------------------ From: mark@panix.com (Phiber Optik) Subject: Re: New York Telephone Outage Date: 13 Jul 1993 02:45:45 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Just for accuracies' sake, let's consider the layout of NYTel access tandems (AT/SSP's) in NYC. From memory, starting from downtown and going up, we have BW21T (Broadway 21), 3706T and 3707T (37th Street), 5404T (54th Street). I don't recall there being anything above 5404T, but there may be something else downtown besides BW21T. I don't recall. Over east for Queens and Brooklyn, we have WM08T, WM09T, etc. (Williamsburg, Bklyn). Nassau has Garden City, and I believe another AT in Central Islip. The Bronx has Grand Concourse, and then we get to our friend in 914, Mount Vernon. I agree with the hypotheses of Mr. Lewis, but not knowing exactly which types of trunks (those linking MTVN to other tandem offices, or carriers, or end offices, or maybe a little of all three), it's still only guesswork. Considering MTVN is a 4ESS (I don't remember if it may be a DMS-200), we're talking about 107,520 trunks, roughly 100,000 in either case. The possibility of all manner of trunks being cut is present. I'm sure the construction workers didn't know (they were the cause, right?) What is known, is that calls through AT&T completed. As stated, that's because AT&T 4E's are directly connected to EO's. And calls through other carriers went uncompleted, because OCC POPs normally connect to the network through NYTel AT/SSP's. What would've answered our question, is if anyone in 914 remembers what recording they got during the outage. A reorder or intercept from their EO would have indicated that trunks were down connecting their EO to the MTVN AT, and that would explain that. If, on the other hand, they got a recording from the MTVN AT ("132 xx" at the end, where xx is the alphanumeric code for the AT, and 132 is of course our LATA), then we know they got out of their EO and got as far as the AT, which says that trunks were cut connecting MTVN to other AT's and/or OCC POPs, and that would be the other possible scenario. If they got either or, then cuts of both types of trunks from the AT occurred; EO to AT, and AT to AT or AT to POP. Normally, a WATS call over, say, Sprint, would be routed out of your EO to a NYTel AT/SSP, the SSP would query the SCP (5E or DMS Supernode), the SCP would return the routing translation, the SSP would route the call to the appropriate Sprint POP, and from there out over Sprint's network of DMS-250's, back to the AT at the other end, and finally to the terminating EO. That's one routing scenario at least, in brief. -phiber ------------------------------ From: rothen+@pitt.edu (Seth B Rothenberg) Subject: Re: Switching Red/Green to Black/Yellow Date: 13 Jul 93 14:04:41 GMT Organization: University of Pittsburgh In article knauer@ibeam.intel.com (Rob Knauerhase) writes: > Does anyone know of a switch that will take a four-wire input > (where red/green are line one and black/yellow are line two) and > select one of the pairs to connect to red/green output? I have two > lines in my apartment, and would like an easier way of switching the > modem between them than moving the plug from one jack to another. > Radio Shack (even the catalog) was unhelpful. Hello Direct sells > a two-lines-to-one-line switch, but it's (1) expensive and (2) clumsy > since I'd have to split my one wire in two in order to switch between > them. I've checked in a couple other places to no avail as well. > [Moderator's Note: Radio Shack has a two-line controller which uses > buttons on the front to shift the line of your choice into a single > line output. For incoming calls, the ringing signal forces the con- > troller to shift the ringing line into the output. ] Radio Shack used to sell a box with two line-select buttons and a hold button in addition to the automatic line selector that Pat mentioned. However, I happened to hear someone ask for it in Radio Shack last week and get told it was discontinued. The excuse was that two-line telephones are so cheap. Radio Shack used to have a two-lines-together-to-two-single-lines adaptor. I don't know if they still do. From the 1992 catalog, # 279-401 or 279-402 with a feed-through of the unsplit line. Both were $6.95 US at the time. A quick scan also confirms absence of the line selector. -Seth ------------------------------ From: jms@opus1.com (Joel M-for-Vnews Snyder) Subject: Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? Date: 13 Jul 1993 14:35:55 GMT Organization: Opus One Reply-To: jms@Opus1.COM In article , sharris@chopin.udel.edu (Scott A Harris) writes ... > suggested I go with a Centrex service. I like the concept, but at > $36.99 per line *each month* and additional "service" fees, this can > add up quickly. Are there any better ways to go about getting a hunt > group for dirt cheap? It depends on what kind of a hunt group (rotary) you really want. I called US West (Tucson) and tried to ask for a hunt group, and the extremely helpful rep said, "well, that's $8/line/month. Could you use busy forwarding?" Busy forwarding is pretty much what I wanted, although it's not as perfectly robust as a hunt group ... and it only costs $0.30/line/month. Joel M Snyder, 1103 East Spring Street, Tucson, AZ, 85719 +1 602 882 4094 (voice) 882 4095 (FAX) 882 4093 (data) jms@Opus1.COM Opus One ------------------------------ From: wts1@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (wts1) Subject: Re: How to Get EIA/TIA Standards? Organization: AT&T Federal Systems Advanced Technologies - Greensboro, NC Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 14:40:13 GMT In article s35316s@puukko.hut.fi (Marko Ilari Silventoinen) writes: >Hello there, > Could somebody tell me how can I obtain EIA/TIA standards? The address > or telefax number of TIA office would do also. EIA/TIA documents may be purchased from: Global Engineering Documents at the following addresses: 1990 M Street NW 15 Inverness Way East 2805 McGaw Ave. Suite 400 Englewood, CO 80112 Irvine, CA 92714 Washington, DC 20036 PH: +1.202.429.2860 +1.303.792.2181 +1.714.261.1455 (800)624-3974 (800)854-7179 FAX:+1.202.332.0960 ATTN: Marcia Knights >From the copyright page of EIA/TIA-464A-1989: "Published by: Electronic Industries Association Engineering Department 1722 Eye Street, N.W. Washington, DC 20006" No phone or fax listed in this standard. William T. Sykes AT&T FSAT-Engineering Greensboro, NC 27420 UUCP: att!gcuxb!gcwts att!cbnewsb!wts1 ------------------------------ From: jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) Subject: Re: Incident at a COCOT Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 00:14:03 GMT A legal COCOT question, are they allowed to block 800 service? A few around here (downtown Denver) block 800 and 950 and do not have all local exchanges programmed so a local call to my pager cost $1.70 (about the same as a small explosive that would fit in the coin return). Can they do this legally? Justin [Moderator's Note: COCOTS cannot legally block calls to 800 numbers. If they want to charge you $1.70 for a local call, that is their business, but they cannot deny access freely to 800 numbers or the 10xxx carrier of your choice, nor can they legally block 950. When this topic came up here a couple years ago, someone devised a gummy sticker which said "PHONE OUT OF COMPLIANCE - DO NOT USE". The idea was to put this sticker across the coin slot to prevent others from losing their money; the same courtesy you would like to be shown on a mechanical coin operated device that was out of order to keep you from losing your money. The sticker had little boxes to check as to what was wrong (pricing on calls, denial of other calls, etc) and it went on to say the phone would be out of service until further notice and that it would be 'audited periodically for compliance before being returned to service ...'. Of course its up to the 'auditor' to visit the location every day or two and make sure the coin slot is still blocked, replacing the sticker as needed. :) Don't vandalize the phone! That is illegal. It is *not* illegal to warn other consumers that a coin operated device is not functioning properly. PAT] ------------------------------ From: mlevin@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshall Levin) Subject: Re: Incident at a COCOT Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 20:44:31 -0600 (MDT) > So I tried dialing the call 0-703-xxx-xxxx and using the "85" credit > card from AT&T at their "bong". Their operator came on, then > explained that they can't accept AT&T's non-telephone credit cards, > but she would transfer me. That didn't work, as the AT&T Operator > couldn't hear me. I was under the impression that it was required by law that EVERY phone line allow you to connect to any carrier, regardless of who the line is owned by. Is this not true? Marshall Levin (mlevin@nyx.cs.du.edu) [Moderator's Note: It *is* required by law. Anytime a COCOT is operating illegally you should make an attempt to contact the operator if the operator's name is on the phone (sometimes it is). Let them know the phone is out of compliance and 'as a courtesy to help them so they won't get other complaints' you will be taking it out of service so that coins cannot be deposited 'accidentally' by unsuspecting users. Tell them furthermore from time to time you will be auditing the phone for compliance and will be glad to let them know anytime it appears the phone is 'not working correctly'. They must allow 950, 800, and 10xxx (or the associated AOS must willingly transfer you to the 10xxx of hcoice). PAT] ------------------------------ From: tchen@sdesys1.hns.com (Thomas Chen) Subject: Re: Future of ISDN Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 19:23:18 GMT Organization: Hughes Network Systems Inc. well, I believe ISDN's demise may not be an exaggeration. First of all, for those common folks who have a lot of investment in the simple copper wire equipment, phone, answering machine, fax, etc will probabaly stay with the standard analog service. For those who demand newest and latest features, two b+d just won't cut it (for home use). With the emerging applications such as multimedia, I think we have to look for more bandwidth technology to replace ISDN. tom ------------------------------ From: steve@mcnnet.mi.org (Steve Corso) Subject: Looking For Devices to Dial *67 and Route Calls Organization: The Genix Group Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 23:12:27 GMT I am trying to locate a device that I can connect between the telephone line that comes in my house and all (not just one) of my telephones that automatically enters a code (such as *67 privacy mode) when I pick any phone in the house up to draw dial-tone. Does such a device exist? I am also looking for a device that looks at the telephone line and routes to two or three connectors based on distinctive ring. Any direction would be greatly appreciated. Steven J. Corso Phone: +1 (313) 337-4805 Genix Group, INC Fax: +1 (313) 323-4010 5225 Auto Club Drive Internet: steve@mcnnet.mi.org Dearborn, MI 48126 ------------------------------ Subject: Memory Effect Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 6:04:03 CDT From: Cliff Sharp >TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM (Paul Robinson) writes: >kenny@mvuts.att.com, writes: >> This feature, of course, is to prevent the "memory effect" from >> occuring. It also trickle-charges the battery after the green "full" >> light comes on. >Now this is an issue that has been written up both ways; some people >say the "memory effect" is an Urban Legend, and that it only happens >under laboratory conditions, and some people say it does happen in the >real world. Does anyone know of this *really* happening? Although manufacturers claim it's an artifact of the past and no longer happens, it's still there. Not nearly as bad as it used to be, but still measurable. Improvements in the separator and in charging techniques have made it much less a problem than in the past. ------------------------------ From: jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) Subject: 800 Translation Questions Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix (sponsored by U. of Denver Math/CS dept.) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 00:31:53 GMT What is the name of the office that handles the translations for 800 service within a Bell region (ie: NY Telephone or NJ Bell)? Are all 800 calls (non AT&T, Sprint etc) passed to a central switch, translated and routed or does each switch have the ability to translate it? Also, with portability, does that mean that the local telco keeps a list on a switch somewhere so it knows where to send the call. Can one take a local 800 number and take it to a non-local carrier. Did this make any sense? Justin [Moderator's Note: Are we repeating ourselves here? When dialing an 800 number the caller has *no choice whatsoever* in carrier or route or anything else. The person who *pays* for the calls makes those decisions, period. Telco hands the call off to the carrier chosen for it by the recipient of the call, period. All references to 10xxx or zero plus an 800 number are ignored. No one would use 800 service if there was a risk they could get a bill for big $$ because the caller chose to send it via Integratel or some other AOS. And yes, some telcos (maybe all) keep a cache of the 800 numbers they have recently connected with to make future calls to that number go faster. If they have never seen the 800 number before, they do a database lookup. One complaint about portability was that 800 calls would take several seconds longer to process when telco went to the database to find out what to do with it. In fact, calls to commonly used 800 numbers now seem to complete instantly, or at least as fast as before. PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #473 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa14409; 14 Jul 93 1:26 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA30096 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Tue, 13 Jul 1993 22:34:02 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA15458 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Tue, 13 Jul 1993 22:33:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 22:33:12 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307140333.AA15458@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #474 TELECOM Digest Tue, 13 Jul 93 22:33:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 474 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: Who Was Randy Barrow? (Andy Sherman) Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? (John DuBois) Re: Dialing "1" First (Mark Brader) Re: Dialing "1" First (John R. Levine) Re: Step-by-Step Offices (Terry Kennedy) Re: Step-by-Step Offices (Carl Oppedahl) Re: Step-by-Step Offices (Danny Padwa) Re: Step-by-Step Offices (David G. Lewis) Re: "SPC" Xbar (was Re: Step-by-Step Offices) (Stephen Tell) ---------------------- TELECOM Digest is an e-journal devoted mostly -- but not exclusively -- to discussions on voice telephony. The Digest is a not-for-profit public service published frequently by Patrick Townson Associates. PTA markets a no-surcharge telephone calling card and a no monthly fee 800 service. In addition, we are resellers of AT&T's Software Defined Network. For a detailed discussion of our services, write and ask for the file 'products'. The Digest is delivered at no charge by email to qualified subscribers on any electronic mail service connected to the Internet. To join the mail- ing list, write and tell us how you qualify: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu. All article submissions MUST be sent to our email address: telecom@eecs. nwu.edu -- NOT as replies to comp.dcom.telecom. Back issues and numerous other telephone-related files of interest are available from the Telecom Archives, using anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu. Login anonymous, then 'cd telecom-archives'. At the present time, the Digest is also ported to Usenet at the request of many readers there, where it is known as 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Use of the Digest does not require the use of our products and services. The two are separate. All articles are the responsibility of the individual authors. Organi- zations listed, if any, are for identification purposes only. The Digest is compilation-copyrighted, 1993. **DO NOT** cross-post articles between the Digest and other Usenet or alt newsgroups. Do not compile mailing lists from the net-addresses appearing herein. Send tithes and love offerings to PO Box 1570, Chicago, IL 60690. :) Phone: 312-465-2700. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 12:16:34 EDT From: andys@internet.sbi.com (Andy Sherman) Subject: Re: Who Was Randy Barrow? In article 9@eecs.nwu.edu, Pat writes: > Unlike Randy (or other employees of AT&T) I have no agreements with > the company to remain silent about things I hear ... Randy and others do > as a condition of their employment. He was out on the street a day or > two after his article appeared here. The information was really blaise > as that stuff goes, and it was very unfortunate. At the time I quoted > a security guy (we have many among our mailing list readers) who said > 'AT&T employees need to be shown an example of how the company responds > when proprietary information like customer records are revealed to > outsiders ..." Randy made a good example alright. :( I still feel > badly they canned him for such relatively innocent comments. PAT] I was working at AT&T at the time Randy stepped in it, and comments like this frustrated me no end at the time. When Randy first posted the information, there were a bunch of postings on the order of "Look at Big Bad AT&T, violating their customers privacy like that. Just as we thought, Mother can't be trusted." Then when Randy's actions were dealt with, there were a bunch of posts on the order of "Why did they have to fire the guy? Look at Big Bad Heartless AT&T. Just as we thought, Mother has no sense of humor." Well which is it? Do you (that's generic, not just Pat) want your privacy protected or not? Or do you just want to piss and moan about faceless corporations without holding individuals accountable for the actions they take without official sanction? Some additional information that might help keep this in perspective. For all that the security guy talked about making an example of Randy, the case did not receive widespread publicity inside of AT&T. Firing him was standard operating procedure. Every AT&T employee is subject to a corporate Code of Conduct. Every AT&T employee receives an annual Code of Conduct review, and signs an acknowledgement of that review. That signature is required so that the company can fire you for breaches of the Code of Conduct without your claiming ignorance. One section of the code deals with revealing the proprietary information of the company or its customers. Another section specifically deals with Customer Proprietary Network Information (CPNI). The privacy of CPNI is mandated by either Federal law or FCC regs, and it is clear that unauthorized disclosure of CPNI is a dismissal offense. I worked in an area that had access to call detail records, and my boss made special note of the CPNI provisions during Code of Conduct reviews. To my knowledge, no breach of the sanctity of CPNI ever came from our area, and we were concerned that Randy's antics could make life real difficult for employees who needed access to CPNI to do their jobs. Fortunately, sanity prevailed and they did not. Randy betrayed the trust placed in him by the company, and betrayed the trust placed in the company by its customers. Even if this particular customer was a scumbag, AT&T and its employees are not the ones to make that determination or prescribe sanctions for scumbag-like conduct. That is the role of the criminal justice system. Scumbag or not, any customer of any long-distance company ought to enjoy the same expectations of the privacy of their toll records. It is not up to individual phone company employees to punish customers by violating their privacy. At the time, nobody was particularly surprised at Randy's treatment. While we may have felt bad for him, everybody knows that certain actions are virtually guaranteed to result in immediate dismissal. As a former AT&T employee and as a shareholder, I am quite proud of the ethical standards embodied in AT&T's Code of Conduct. But people on this list may not want to hear that, since it doesn't fit the image of Big Bad Mother. Oh, and Pat, you may have no contractual obligation, what about your ethical obligations? Somebody had the privacy of their business violated by having information about their identity and calling patterns posted in the Digest. As I recall, the name and address of the subscriber appeared in the Digest, and several Chicago area readers gum-shoed their operation. This is not a Good Thing, and I'd hate to have it on my head that it happened because of an editorial decision I made. While you may have no legal responsibility for what appears here, if you take no moral or ethical responsibility why have a Moderator? I'm sure we could limit the traffic with a few good Perl scripts. Andy Sherman Salomon Inc - Unix Systems Support - Rutherford, NJ (201) 896-7018 - andys@sbi.com or asherman@sbi.com [Moderator's Note: There are readers who would disagree with you and say that a company doing business as per the firm in question *should* be exposed. I never said anything about 'moral or ethical responsibil- ity' ... I merely said I am not obliged to AT&T in any legal way. And I am pleased that this newsgroup has readers willing to do 'gumshoe' operations from time to time and report their findings here. PAT] ------------------------------ From: John DuBois Subject: Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? Organization: The Armory Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 09:32:24 GMT Pac Bell seems to be pretty good in this respect. When we moved into this house, I asked the landlord how many phone lines there were; he told us that it had previously been rented by "computer scientists" who he was sure had had plenty of lines. But, when we got around to ordering our third line, we discovered that there were only two. An installation person came out and tried to pull a third line through the conduit that appeared to connect their-end with our-end. Didn't work. So a more experienced person came out, and assured us he'd take care of it. I returned to find a message on the door saying "Third service subscriber must provide trench". Huh? I called to ask what the deal was, and a supervisor came out and told me that the conduit-end poking out of the ground next to the house was fake; the line had been direct-buried! He said we'd have to put in conduit, buried at least 18" deep, from the house to the edge of the property to get more lines. We could do it ourselves or they could get a contractor to do it for us for some large amount of money. But, they would be glad to bring as many pairs as we wanted to the edge of the property. I decided we'd do it ourselves, since it was only twenty feet, and how hard could be it be to dig a twenty foot, 18" deep trench? Ha. Turned out there was a rock layer 12" down, plus the occasional root structure we had to burrow under. It ended up taking us a year of off-and-on pickaxe & shovel work, interspersed with giving up on it, to get it done. I was tempted to use explosives at times. Certainly gave me more respect for trenchdiggers. I think I'd rent a backhoe next time. But, we did get it done, and I laid the PVC per their instructions, after spending 'way too long trying to figure out how to get a piece of string through a 20' PVC section (they wanted it to pull the cable through); first time I climbed on the roof of this place... Then they came and looked at it and said, Oh, actually, you must have the end of the conduit within 6" of the house. Grr. The thought of digging a new trench for the last 10' or so didn't appeal to me, so I just unburied the end and dug a notch to allow me to tip over the end so that it leaned up against the house. I wondered what they'd think about that, but they didn't have a problem with it. Their contractor came and dug a trench down the street (taking advantage of the unpaved center divider) to give us our extra lines, at a cost of somewhat over $5K, which they absorbed. Then the Pac Bell people came and used my Wimpy String to pull through some of their Hardy Phone Company Twine, and then came back again and pulled through the cable. I had asked them to pull ten pairs through, for further expansion, and they had assured me they would, but when they were done there were only five. But at least it was in conduit, so when we needed more they used the one five-pair cable to pull through two five-pair cables, which has sufficed so far f(ive voice lines, five data lines). They have so far been very understanding of my need to have four phone lines in a hunt group at residential rates. The only hitch has been that I can't have my open-access system listed by name unless I pay business rates. But I can live with that. And whoever rents this house after *us* will find it nicely wired :) John DuBois spcecdt@armory.com KC6QKZ ------------------------------ From: msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) Subject: Re: Dialing "1" First Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 21:27:56 GMT > I can see that people from a > 1-means-toll area being annoyed when they have to pay toll for a call > even if they didn't dial a leading 1. But the reverse? What's the > point of telling callers to hang up and dial again, without the 1? The psychological assumption here is that people know what places they can call locally and what places they cannot; therefore, if they did this, they must have *misdialed the number*. For example, here in Toronto (area code 416), where use a leading 1-416 rather than plain 1 for long distance within the area code, 739 is a local exchange and 729 is long distance. If I know this, then it is not plausible that I would dial 1-416-739-6666 by mistake for 739-6666. More likely I really meant to dial 1-416-729-6666 or some other number that is long distance. So why trouble the person at 739-6666 with a call that must be a long number? In short, having only one way to dial a particular number provides a primitive form of error checking. Note: in giving this explanation (again), I am not claiming that this is necessarily the best dialing system for today's world; there are people who find it quite annoying, for good reason. I am answering the question as to what advantage it gives. Mark Brader, SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 09:44 EDT From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Subject: Re: Dialing "1" First Organization: I.E.C.C. > I'm dialing "901+ [more stuff]" ... Really? Unless you have an astonishingly screwed up exchange, 00 gets you a long distance operator, and 011 is international. The worst that dialing 901+stuff will get you is an unanticipated conversation with someone in Tennesee. Like I said, whether one likes 1+ for toll is a purely religious issue. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl ------------------------------ From: Terry Kennedy Subject: Re: Step-by-Step Offices Organization: St. Peter's College, US Date: 13 Jul 93 06:31:10 EDT In article , tad@ssc.com (Tad Cook) writes: > How could this HUGE exchange, with a potential capacity of perhaps > 460,000 lines, in area with probably more phones per acre than > anywhere else in the country, be served by an old stepper? Or is > there more than one switch in that building? The last surviving S x S switches were generally serving as Centrex gear for medium-to-large companies who (for one reason or another) didn't want to migrate to modern equipment, possibly due to preferential rates on the older switch. Some unrelated customers wound up on the same switch by historical accident and didn't want to relinquish their number to move. So, the switches stayed until the Centrex customer was upgraded, and then everybody got a new switch with the same prefix. I'd assume that other customers on the switch who didn't want ESS features would be left on the switch, which is probably how the original poster on the 212-820 switch got there. I know that the above was the situation on one S x S in New York City -- I believe the Centrex customer was Chemical Bank and the unrelated customer who didn't want to change prefixes was the Dorsai Embassy BBS, but it was quite a few years ago, so these may not be the right customers. Terry Kennedy Operations Manager, Academic Computing terry@spcvxa.bitnet St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA terry@spcvxa.spc.edu +1 201 915 9381 ------------------------------ From: oppedahl@panix.com (Carl Oppedahl) Subject: Re: Step-by-Step Offices Date: 13 Jul 1993 09:05:18 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC In tad@ssc.com (Tad Cook) writes: > lsp@Panix.Com (Lee S. Parks) writes: >> Well believe it or not, right in the heart of lower Manhattan is a >> step-by-step exchange in the Broad Street CO. It services 212-820 and >> I'm sure what other prefixes. If you have DID (as my office does) in >> 212-820 it takes over 20 seconds to complete the call. NY Tel gives >> conflicting dates as to when this old switch will be replaced. > Is it REALLY an old stepper? I did a search for 212-820 in the NPA > shareware program that has been discussed before on this forum, and > discovered that the Broad Street CO is the southernmost exchange in > Manhatten. Here are the other prefixes that are in the same building: > 208 383 509 635 806 > 232 422 510 668 809 > 248 425 511 701 825 > 269 440 514 709 855 > 344 480 530 742 902 > 352 482 558 747 908 > 357 483 607 770 943 > 361 487 612 785 952 > 363 495 623 797 968 > How could this HUGE exchange, with a potential capacity of perhaps > 460,000 lines, in area with probably more phones per acre than > anywhere else in the country, be served by an old stepper? Or is > there more than one switch in that building? The size of the list tells you that there has to be more than one switch in the building. And indeed as of a year ago, at least, there were still stepper switches in New York City, e.g. Brooklyn. I have dialed numbers in Manhattan as recently as a year ago where I can *hear* the last three or four digits being outpulsed in rotary style. The number of clicks matches the last three or four digits. Carl Oppedahl AA2KW (intellectual property lawyer) 30 Rockefeller Plaza New York, NY 10112-0228 voice 212-408-2578 fax 212-765-2519 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 10:00:39 -0400 (EDT) From: padwad@psd.gs.com (Danny Padwa) Subject: Re: Step-by-Step Offices I'd expect that there is more than one switch inside ... it is a pretty sizeable CO (right across the street from the office here ... maybe I should go knock on the door and ask! :-)). Seriously, though ... concomitant with the ridiculously high concentration of phones around here comes a ridiculously large amount of money people are willing to spend for service. I'm not that up on the phone technology, but I'd expect most firms around here have as much of their own wiring/switching/etc as possible. Even to the point of having direct trunks to multiple long-distance companies, with the ability to switch (at least out-going calls) between them under local control. When you have zillions of dollars riding on the full-time availability of your telecom equipment, you spend what is necessary to make sure it stays alive. Danny Padwa padwad@psd.gs.com Note: None of this is an official GS&Co statement...just my own ramblings ------------------------------ From: deej@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (david.g.lewis) Subject: Re: Step-by-Step Offices Organization: AT&T Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 16:50:08 GMT There is almost certainly more than one switch in the building; I wouldn't be surprised if there were three or more. If memory serves, the NYTel Broad Street and West Street COs between them serve all of lower Manhattan. With the phone density in that part of the world, as you allude to, there's no way only two switches would have enough capacity. Even the largest 1A ESS (TM) switch out there only serves ~100k lines, again if memory serves, and on an SPC switch as features increase, line capacity decreases. Since lower Manhattan is a business district, the switches will have to support heavy Centrex use and be feature-rich, lowering the net line capacity. So I'm sure NYTel has a bunch of switches in those two COs. David G Lewis AT&T Bell Laboratories david.g.lewis@att.com or !att!goofy!deej Switching & ISDN Implementation ------------------------------ From: tell@cs.unc.edu (Stephen Tell) Subject: Re: "SPC" Xbar (was Re: Step-by-Step Offices) Date: 13 Jul 1993 15:50:21 -0400 Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill In article bud@kite.kentrox.com (Bud Couch) writes: > North Electric (NOT Northern Electric) was at one time 92% owned by > Ericsson and produced modified (for the US market) and original > designed crossbar systems built around the Ericsson xbar module. The > NX-1 was one of the modified systems. > A number of versions of the switch had been produced, but the NX-1D > was the version that I was familiar with when I worked there in the > the late 60's. When I left the company in '68, a development was > underway to counter the AT&T and AE electronic switches. One > development was an adaption of Ericsson's spc machine, the AXE-?, and > the other was a stopgap modification of the NX-1D, labeled the NX-1E > (for electronic). I saw an NX-1E up close at the Duke University telephone system when doing non-phone software work for them in 1988. The electromechanical switch fabric didn't appear to be a "crossbar" of any sort; rather it was all individual open-frame relays packaged in 8" or so shelves in 10 or 12 foot frames. Naturally it made quite a racket during the day. These relay shelves are also all that was stacked out back awaiting the scrap-metal man after they cut to a 5ESS in the summer of '88. The cut was simpler than some I've heard of; no choping through cables. The subscriber line shelves all had a lever that pulled out a connector, isolating disconecting all the lines served by that shelf. At the appointed time (2:00 am), techs ran up and down the rows of frames, pulling the levers. Shelves serving important lines, for example emergency room phones at the hospital, were marked with colored dots, and these pulled last. This all took about ten minutes. Then they typed a command at a console on the 5E, pronounced the cut a success, and began cheering. Some of the off-campus and toll trunks had already been moved to the 5E, and a tech in communiation with a GTE-Durham CO had them disable the incoming trunks to the NX-1E over the next few hours; these trunks were moved to the 5E and re-enabled. A few off-campus calls still made it into the old switch to be intercepted by a lone operator who told them to try again in a few minutes. About ten minutes after the cutover the first "code 5" emergency call from the medical center was handled smoothly by an operator at one of the new consoles in a temporary trailer. Later I walked home and found that my phone didn't work ... I guess student phones were a low priority; took them about two days to get things straightend out. On flip side, student party lines were gone forever. Steve Tell tell@cs.unc.edu H: 919 968 1792 | #5L Estes Park apts UNC Chapel Hill Computer Science W: 919 962 1845 | Carrboro NC 27510 ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #474 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa00445; 14 Jul 93 12:29 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA24410 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Wed, 14 Jul 1993 09:36:00 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA32256 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Wed, 14 Jul 1993 09:35:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 09:35:07 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307141435.AA32256@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #475 TELECOM Digest Wed, 14 Jul 93 09:35:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 475 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Public Interest Coalition on Telecommunications (J. Philip Miller) U.S. Newspaper Publishers Ask For Telecom Policy Protection (Nigel Allen) Cellular Propagation Simulator (Rodney Alan Walker) Telephone Notes From Amsterdam (Lars Poulsen) New AT&T Feature: TruVoice (Bob Kupiec) AT&T True Voice Enhances Sound Quality (Les Reeves) Confused About Communications (Kimberly Santana) Bellsouth to Open Access to its Advanced Intelligent Network (R. Gellens) MPT 1327 1313 Trunked Radio (Rodney Alan Walker) CIS Blocking Internet? (Alan Boritz) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: phil@wubios.wustl.edu (J. Philip Miller) Subject: Public Interest Coalition on Telecommunications Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 08:43:37 -0500 (CDT) From the com-priv list: Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 09:20:32 EDT From: LOVE@vm.temple.edu Taxpayer Assets Project Information Policy Note July 13, 1993 NEW COALITION FORMED TO ADVANCE PUBLIC INTEREST POSITIONS ON TELECOMMUNICATIONS INFRASTRUCTURE On July 6, 1993, more than three dozen groups meet in Washington to discuss the formation of a new coalition to develop public interest positions on telecommunications infrastructure. The working name for the coalition is the Telecommunications Policy Roundtable. The principle organizers of the new coalition included Jeff Chester, from the Center for Media Education (CME), Marc Rotenberg, from Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR), and Prue Adler, from the Association of Research Libraries (ARL). Carol Henderson from the American Library Association (ALA), Richard Civille from the Center for Civic Networking (CCN), and several other groups were also instrumental in the creation of the new coalition. The coalition was formed in part to fill a perceived void in the development of public interest principles in the current national debate over the new telecommunications infrastructure. The July 6 meeting came about one month after EFF hosted a meeting to discuss its "Open Platform" proposal for the telecommunications infrastructure. A number of participants at the EFF meeting were surprised at the narrow scope of the EFF effort, which seemed to only address the issue of common carrier access to an ISDN type switched service from the local telephone service company. EFF, for example, said that it was not working on issues relating to cable television, nor did it express an interest in developing positions on restrictions on horizonal or vertical integration in new information markets. At that meeting Jerry Berman indicated that EFF was not particularly interested in addressing a broader range of regulatory issues, and he issued a challenge to the EFF critics to develop their own proposals. The new group which met on July 8 was diverse in its interests, but surprisingly sophisticated about the increasingly inter-related nature telecommunications issues. It included groups that had worked on issues relating to broadcast and cable television, regulation of telephone rates, access to government information, NREN and the Internet, as well as a number of groups that wanted to become more involved in broader issues relating to federal information policy. (EFF was invited, and participated in the meeting). A key driving force behind the new coalition is Jeff Chester from the Center for Media Education, who has tirelessly sought to build ties between groups working on different issues, and to motivate them to broaden their horizons and work together as a coalition on the larger infrastructure issues. The organizers of the July 8th meeting circulated a set of draft principles for comment, which are reported below. At the meeting there was considerable interest in developing a broader statement that would include a preamble of sorts, which explained why these principles were important, as well as some more detailed and operational statements regarding the implementation of these principles, including comments on existing legislation or proposals for new legislation. There was also an interest in broadening the scope of the principles to include some statements about the need to give consumers and low income persons more power in the policy making process. The Taxpayer Assets Project asked that the new group create an Internet Listserve that would allow a broader national audience to participate in a dialogue about the development of a public interest perspective on the telecommunications infrastructure. Some participants (all of whom do not use the Internet) were mildly hostile to this proposal, on the grounds that the users of the Internet were an upscale elite group. This issue will probably be resolved in the fall, in favor of the creation of the list. For now, anyone who wants to comment on the July 8 version of the draft principles should send probably send their comments to the organizers of the new coalition. (It would be nice if you would include a cc: to tap@essential.org as well). Jeff Chester, Center for Media Education, P.O. Box 330039, Washington, DC 20033; 202/628-2620; cme@digex.net Marc Rotenberg, CPSR, 666 Pennsylvania Avenue, SE, Suite 303 Washington, DC 20003; 202/544-9240; rotenberg@washofc.cpsr.org Prue Adler, Association of Research Libraries, 21 Dupont Circle, NW, Washington, DC 20036, 202/296-8656, prue@cni.org ---------------- Telecommunications Policy Roundtable July 8 draft public interest goals for the information infrastructure 1. PUBLIC AND CIVIC SECTOR. The information infrastructure must be created with a vibrant and healthy civic and public sector, which allows for full participation of all segments within our society. This participation should also include civic institutions such as schools, universities, and libraries. The system should include fully developed civic networks at the national, regional, state, and local level. The system should be designed to facilitate openness in government and to guarantee all citizens' right to know. 2. UNIVERSAL ACCESS. Every citizen should have free or affordable access to basic programming and information services, including news, public affairs, health, education, electoral, and government information. "Universal access" draws upon the longstanding policy of "universal service" which guarantees that all citizens have access to basic telephone service. However, we believe that the convergence of telephone, computer, video and other technologies requires an expanded concept which will ensure that all citizens have access to the basic tools and information needed to function in a democratic society. 3. PRIVACY PROTECTION. A comprehensive set of policies should be developed to ensure that the privacy of all citizens is adequately protected in the information infrastructure. For example, the collection of personal data for telecommunication services should be limited to the extent necessary to provide the service. This data should not be shared with other individuals or institutions without the explicit consent of the user. Users should not be required to pay for routine privacy protection. 4. OPEN AND ACCESSIBLE SYSTEM. All citizens, groups, and institutions must have equitable and affordable access as communicators and information providers. Emerging telecommunications systems should be designed with an open architecture and regulated as common carriers. Owners of delivery systems should not be permitted to control the content of programming or services. 5. DIVERSE AND COMPETITIVE MARKETPLACE. The information infrastructure must be designed to encourage diversity of users and providers, to allow a wide range of perspectives and points of view to be heard, and to promote robust debate. Policies must be put in place to encourage the successful entry of small independent programming and service providers. Encouraging such policies is particularly important given the increasing consolidation within and among the communications industries. 6. NONCOMMERCIAL PROGRAMS AND SERVICES. Citizens must be ensured continued production/creation and availability of noncommercial programs and information services. Policies should be established to ensure the full participation and funding of noncommercial program and service providers. ------------ Taxpayer Assets Project, P.O. Box 19367, Washington, DC 20036; v. 202/387-8030; f. 202/234-5176; internet: tap@essential.org ------------ J. Philip Miller, Professor, Division of Biostatistics, Box 8067 Washington University Medical School, St. Louis MO 63110 phil@wubios.WUstl.edu - (314) 362-3617 [362-2693(FAX)] ------------------------------ Subject: U.S. Newspaper Publishers Ask For Telecom Policy Protection Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 3:59:03 EDT From: Nigel Allen Here is a press release from the National Newspaper Association. I downloaded it from the PR On-Line BBS in Maryland at 410-363-0834. Telecommunication Infrastructure Legislation Must Contain Protection for Local Information Providers, Says NNA Contact: Mark T. Sheehan of the National Newspaper Association, 202-466-7200 WASHINGTON, July 13 -- Any legislation concerning the telecommunications infrastructure must contain protection for equal rates and guaranteed access for local information providers, if our local communities are to preserve the quality of life that community newspapers provide, according to the National Newspaper Association. That's what Dalton C. Wright, publisher of the Lebanon Daily Record, will say July 14 when he testifies before the Communications Subcommittee of the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee (9:30 a.m., 253 Russell). "We are vulnerable because we're local in scope and small in size," he said in his prepared testimony. "If appropriate regulatory mechanisms and policies are not in place, we can be squeezed out by larger, nationally based providers." Wright is also a member of the association's board of directors, and is a member of the Missouri Press Association, which passed a resolution supporting his testimony. Frank W. Garred, chairman of the National Newspaper Association, which represents more than 4,600 community newspapers, and R. Jack Fishman, chairman of the association's government relations committee, also attended the hearing, which dealt with S. 1086, the Inouye-Danforth telecommunications bill. Garred is publisher of the Port Townsend Jefferson County Leader in Port Townsend, Wash., and Fishman is publisher of the Citizen Tribune in Morristown, Tenn. Garred noted that the association's proposed legislative language would protect local broadcasters as well as community newspapers, and that it was already in the form of an amendment to the telecommunications bill sponsored by Sen. Conrad Burns (R-Mont.) "This protection is needed if small, local information providers are going to be able to take part in our telecommunications future," he said, "and not be crowded completely off the nation's information highway by the big national providers." Fishman emphasized that the National Newspaper Association was not asking for preferential treatment: "We're not asking for anything one or more of our competitors won't already have," he said. Note: Copy of testimony available on request from the National Newspaper Association. ------------------------------ From: Rodney Alan Walker Subject: Cellular Propagation Simulator Date: 14 Jul 93 12:15:04 +1000 Organization: Queensland University of Technology Is anyone on the network aware of a software package that simulates the cellular radio environment? Basically it provides signal strengths at different geographic locations in relation to the cell transmission site, depending on different terrain models and atmospheric conditions. I have not heard of any software for this, but I would find it extremely useful. Can anyone help? Thanks, Rodney Walker Post Graduate Studies Queensland University of Technology IFN001WALKER@QUT.EDU.AU ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 02:29:24 PDT From: lars@CMC.COM (Lars Poulsen) Subject: Telephone Notes From Amsterdam Greetings from the IETF meeting in Amsterdam. I am sending this from the terminal room at the Internet Engineering Task Force meeting in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, where about 500 engineers are discussing data networking standards. The Netherlands use the "charge unit pulse" method of telephone billing. The standard unit is worth about DFL 0.17 (USD 0.08) but every hotel and most COCOTs charge DFL 0.65 per unit, which brings the cost of a prime time call to the US up to near USD 15 per minute. Obviously, the various USA Direct/Call USA services are a matter of survival for business travelers and tourists. It is not surprising that the telephone books in the hotels do not contain the access numbers for these services. Fortunately, they are posted in the phone booths. On the other hand, it takes preparation to be able to use them from the phone booths, since the booths require a pre-paid card to be inserted before dialing, even for these "green numbers". The conference organizers arranged dial-in access to the temporary computer center (which has 42 unix workstations and a T-1 line to the internet) but few of us can reach it from the hotel, because the phone sets at the hotel are hardwired, and it is not obvious how to disassemble the phone set to get at wires with our alligator clips. One interesting element in the cityscape here is a 50 cm by 50 cm green square sign mounted 10 feet up in many intersections, with a picture of a hand held phone and the legend "ptt green point". This indicates that a PCS microcell is mounted nearby. There is also one of these in the lobby of the conference center. In the next few weeks I shall report on the adventures of establishing telephone and Internet service for my new residence in Copenhagen, Denmark. PPS: I am getting ready to set up a mailing list for Americans in Europe. If you want to join, please send me mail (lars@CMC.COM). Lars Poulsen ------------------------------ From: beyonet!olwejo!bob@uunet.UU.NET (Bob Kupiec) Subject: New AT&T Feature: TruVoice Reply-To: beyonet!bob@vu-vlsi.vill.edu Organization: Olwejo - Private UNIX System Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 04:02:27 GMT What's the deal behind this new AT&T "feature" that is supposed to be added to AT&T's long distance calls? Supposedly, it enhances the sound quality on LD calls. To me, it just sounds like the volume was increased with a little low-frequency added. If anyone wants to hear for themselves, the demo is at 1-800-932-2000. Bob Kupiec, N3MML Internet: beyonet!bob@vu-vlsi.vill.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 21:24:48 -0400 (EDT) From: LESREEVES@delphi.com Subject: AT&T Truevoice Enhances Sound Quality AT&T has annouced "Truevoice", an enhancement to it's switched voice network service. Truevoice is claimed to provide more realistic voice quality by extending low-frequency response and increasing signal levels. Truevoice will be deployed in AT&T's network by September,and available to all customers. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 21:05 EST From: KSANTANA@vax.clarku.edu Subject: Confused About Communications I am searching for as much information as I can find about communications. I am a newborn when it comes to e-mail, please be patient. I am a candidate for a Communications degree at Clark U, MA. I haven't a clue what to look for. Same old college song song isn't it? Can anyone start me out with some general tips? I'd appreciate it very much. Kimberly Santana [Moderator's Note: For starters, try checking out our archives. We have dozens of files of interest plus twelve years of back issues of this Digest/newsgroup. Use anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu, then when connected 'cd telecom-archives'. PAT] ------------------------------ From: RANDY@MPA15AB.mv-oc.Unisys.COM Date: 13 JUL 93 19:20 Subject: Bellsouth to Open Access to its Advanced Intelligent Network Saw this in a news summary: ELLSOUTH WANTS TO OPEN access to its Advanced Intelligent Network so that other companies can develop new communications products, such as voice recognition and personalized phone numbers that follow individuals wherever they go, AP reported (7/8/93). "Doubtless, we'll create competition for some of our own advanced services," said Duane Ackerman, president, BellSouth Telecommunications. The company's research, however, shows that new products developed by other companies actually could increase BellSouth's revenues. |Randy Gellens randy@mv-oc.unisys.com |A Series System Software |Unisys Corporation if mail bounces, forward to |Mission Viejo, CA rgellens@mcimail.com |Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak only for myself ------------------------------ From: Rodney Alan Walker Subject: MPT 1327 1313 Trunked Radio Date: 14 Jul 93 12:00:38 +1000 Organization: Queensland University of Technology I would like to know if any people on the Internet have experience with the Trunked radio system, falling under the European Standard MPT 1327 1313. What I am trying to do, is to send GPS data, through a trunked radio link, so that a remote operator can see the position of his/her vehicle fleet. I am trying to make the system totally transparent to the trunked radio user. I would be interested in conversing with any people who have had experience sending data over the trunked radio system, and in hearing any problems that they may have had, or results that they obtained. Rodney Walker Post Graduate Studies Queensland University of Technology IFN001WALKER@QUT.EDU.AU ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jul 93 07:28:55 EDT From: Alan Boritz <72446.461@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Is CIS Blocking Internet? I recently had some difficulty sending Internet mail from my Compuserve account to the fidonet.org domain. Four days ago I asked the folks at Compuserve why they were bouncing my properly domain-addressed Internet mail, and they still haven't responded. Ignoring for the moment that hobbyist sysops take better care of users that don't pay like I do (;), would anyone know if Compuserve is intentionally blocking some domains or if they're just not as well-connected as other VAN hosts? Alan Boritz 72446.461@compuserve.com [Moderator's Note: No one at CIS is 'bouncing your mail' or blocking you from reaching anything. CIS does one thing with mail for the Internet or other networks connected through it: they hand it off to the gateway they use in Ohio. They take incoming mail to subscribers at the same gateway and distribute it. They don't personally route mail anywhere; just hand it to the gateway they use. They probably did not answer because they have not yet received an answer from whoever is their Internet contact; if they ever will get an answer. I send and recieve large amounts of mail from CIS subscribers daily, including the letter you sent me. I see no effort by CIS to do anything other than the best job they can with network mail, given the various prob- lems all sites have in making delivery. Bear in mind to reach Fido by way of Internet, you had two gateways involved: CIS <=> Internet and Internet <=> Fido. Any number of things could have happened, but the least likely IMHO would be that Compuserve was 'blocking mail to the Internet.' By the way, I've waited as long as twenty minutes to break through the busy signal at their 800-848-8990 customer service number and another ten minutes on hold for a representative when I got that far. I'm not apologizing for them or accusing them, just stating what appear to be operational realities. PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #475 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa11764; 14 Jul 93 18:28 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA02964 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Wed, 14 Jul 1993 15:37:56 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA25552 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Wed, 14 Jul 1993 15:37:02 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 15:37:02 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307142037.AA25552@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #476 TELECOM Digest Wed, 14 Jul 93 15:37:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 476 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (Garrett Wollman) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (Paolo Bellutta) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (Louis Linneweh) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (Dave McGuigan) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (Wolf Paul) Re: TAP Spec For Beepers (Andy Sherman) Re: TAP Spec For Beepers (Monty Solomon) Re: Is AT&T no Longer Asking For Caller Name on Collect Call? (S. Forrette) Re: Is AT&T no Longer Asking For Caller Name on Collect Call? (S. Cogorno) Re: Is AT&T no Longer Asking For Caller Name on Collect Call? (guy@intgp1) Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? (Paul S. Sawyer) Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? (Andy Behrens) Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? (Joe George) Re: Do Operators Interrupt Modem Calls? (Carl Oppedahl) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wollman@trantor.emba.uvm.edu (Garrett Wollman) Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Organization: University of Vermont, EMBA Computer Facility Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 18:29:39 GMT In article Carl Moore writes: > Recently, I noticed the pattern of using __0 (where the "__" can be > any number of digits) as the main number, with __xx (or even __xxx?) > being the extension for the fax line. As other people have noted, many countries have no difficulty with phone numbers of varying length. Four years ago, when I was in Finland, the number for the switchboard operator at the University of Helsinki as (+358 0) 191 1; the number for an individual office was then 191 XXXX. I don't know if this is still the case, although I do remember a lot of grumbling at the time about how numbers in Helsinki were had been expanded from six to seven digits, to make room in the (90) area. Garrett A. Wollman wollman@emba.uvm.edu uvm-gen!wollman UVM disagrees. ------------------------------ From: bellutta@ohsu.EDU (Paolo Bellutta) Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Organization: Oregon Health Sciences University Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 00:43:24 GMT In article bellutta@ohsu.EDU (Paolo Bellutta) writes: > suspicious ...) How about telling us the sequence of numbers you dial; > let's see if its *really* more than 12 or if there is some local code > on your end, etc that is being counted as well. PAT] I might have misunderstood the subject, but this is what I dial for a friend in Milan: IT MI (yes 8 digits) 011 39 2 487 xx xxx and of my parents in Trento IT Trento (6 digits) 011 39 461 98 xx xx Both count 14 digits to me. Paolo Bellutta -- bellutta@ohsu.edu - tel: (503) 494-4804 BICC - OHSU - 3181 SW Sam Jackson Park rd. - Portland, OR ------------------------------ From: linneweh@rtsg.mot.com (Louis Linneweh) Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1993 22:02:35 GMT Our Moderator notes: > But I have never heard of this before; that a number which requires > thirteen digits to dial cannot be reached directly. We in the USA have > had IDDD in many exchanges for twenty years, and in almost all > exchanges for several years now. No one has yet raised this point??? Probably because, quoting from section 2.1 of CCITT recommendation E.163 "NUMBERING PLAN FOR THE INTERNATIONAL TELEPHONE SERVICE": "The CCITT recommended in 1964 that the number of digits to be dialed by subscribers in the automatic international service should not be more than 12 (excluding the international prefix). It is emphasized that this is the maximum number of digits and the Administrations are invited to do their utmost to limit the digits to be dialed to the smallest possible number." (Note that the international prefix is: "The combination of digits to be dialled by a calling subscriber making a call to a subscriber in another country, to obtain access to the automatic outgiong international equipment. according to CCITT Rec. E.160. The example given is "00 in Switzerland", which corresponds to the US "011".) It is noted in the introduction to Rec. E.163 that: "Recommendation E.164 describes the numbering plan for the ISDN era. It is for each Administration to choose the method of application from the two Recommendations which would provide the optimal approach to meeting their future national numbering plan needs. Evolution between the plans is for further study. However for new equipment it is recommended that E.164 be adopted." And the last paragraph of section 3 includes the statement: "In this regard, registers dealing with international traffic should have a digit capacity that can be expanded, to cater for more than the maximum 12-digit international number envisaged at present. The increase in the number of digits above 12 is left as a matter of decision to be taken by individual Administrations. However, for new applications a minimum digit capacity of 15 digits is recommended (see Recommendation E.164)." So, 12 was once the maximum required, but then came the ISDN era ... Therefore, +49 6131 XXX 4555 must be an ISDN era number! The Administrations had better get busy expanding their registers to cater. Lou ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 15:10:45 EDT From: dmcguigan@attmail.att.com Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Organization: AT&T In article , deej@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (david.g.lewis) wrote: > ITU-T (Formerly CCITT) Recommendation E.164 on telecommunications > numbering specifies that the maximum length of an international number > be 12 digits, consisting of a one, two, or three digit country code, > and a national significant number of any length such that the length > of the country code plus the national significant number not exeed 12 > digits. Therefore, in countries where the CC is two digits, a NSN of > 11 or digits (such as that above) will cause the total length to > exceed 12 digits, which is not consistent with E.164 and therefore can > not be expected to be dialable across national boundaries. > The CCITT (now ITU-TSS) has recommended an expansion of international > numbers from 12 to 15 digits at what they call "Time T", defined as > December 31, 1996. As of that date, all switches should be able to > handle international numbers of up to 15 digits in length. Before > that time, 12 is the maximum. Telekom is well within its rights to assign up to 15 digits according to the E.164 and E.165 standards. Time "T" represents the end of a transition period at which time a network must support up to 15 digits to be considered a "conforming" network. However, until time "T", there should be no expectation that such numbers can be passed accross network boundaries. Dave McGuigan AT&T Bell Labs ------------------------------ From: cc_paul@rcvie.co.at (Wolf Paul) Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Reply-To: cc_paul@rcvie.co.at (Wolf N. Paul) Organization: Alcatel Austria Research Centre Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 08:05:19 GMT In article Ekkehard.Rohwedder@KURT.TIP. CS.CMU.EDU writes: > Local U.S. exchanges only have the capacity to store 12-digit numbers ... > If you have a 13 digit (including country code) phone number, you > cannot be reached through direct dial from a local exchange in the > United States!! (As I was told there are 13-digit numbers currently > in Germany, Austria, and the Chech Republic.) >[Moderator's Note: No one has yet raised this point??? PAT] Well, telcos in Europe have been aware of it for quite some time, with the result that (a) larger cities with larger numbers of subscribers usually have shorter city codes, so a greater number of subscriber digits can be accommodated within the 12-digit limit, and (b) at least here in Austria, companies with large PBX setups get shorter subscriber numbers so as to accommodate whatever number of extension digits is necessary. In fact here in Austria, during the past decade, many city codes were shortened, most recently Vienna's, from "222" to "1", particularly for the purpose of facilitating overseas dialling. There is in fact a CCITT recommendation to the effect that country code, city code, subscriber code plus PBX extensions together should not number more than 12 digits. Why the fax number in question was longer, I do not know; possibly because a PBX was installed on a line without the telco's knowledge, thus the initial subscriber number assigned is too long, and with the extension number to reach the fax the 12-digits are exceeded. Wolf N. Paul, Computer Center wnp@rcvie.co.at Alcatel Austria Research Center +43-1-391621-122 (w) Ruthnergasse 1-7 +43-1-391452 (fax) A-1210 Vienna-Austria/Europe +43-1-2246913 (h) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 13:23:03 EDT Subject: Re: TAP Spec For Beepers From: andys@internet.sbi.com (Andy Sherman) On 10 Jul 93 07:52:44 GMT, azalea@igc.apc.org (Jerry Whiting) said: > I'd like to write a simple terminal app to send messages to > alphanumeric pagers. The local beeper companies are somewhat vague > about details but I've heard of a TAP spec. > Is there code (Basic, C, etc.) floating around to do such a thing? > Doesn't seem like I can do it from within ProComm+ (I can have it call > my digital beeper though). As Pat's Moderator's Note pointed out, the spec and some code are in the archive. ixo.tap.protocol has the protocol spec. ixo.program. scripts contains programs from Tom Limoncelli from Mentor Graphics, largely written in Perl. You *can* write a simple Aspect script for Procomm Plus which will use the Manual mode of the IXO/TAP protocol to send an Alphanumeric page. I've done it -- it took all of 1/2 hour to debug. Andy Sherman Salomon Inc - Unix Systems Support - Rutherford, NJ (201) 896-7018 - andys@sbi.com or asherman@sbi.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 02:55:04 -0400 From: Monty Solomon Subject: Re: TAP Spec For Beepers > I'd like to write a simple terminal app to send messages to > alphanumeric pagers. The local beeper companies are somewhat vague > about details but I've heard of a TAP spec. > Is there code (Basic, C, etc.) floating around to do such a thing? > Doesn't seem like I can do it from within ProComm+ (I can have it call > my digital beeper though). Here are some updates on the IXO protocol mailing list and archives. Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 17:56:45 EDT From: tom_limoncelli@Warren.MENTORG.COM Subject: MAILING LIST CHANGES NEW MAILING LIST STUFF: I've finally gotten around to installing majordomo (it's like listserv, only a lot better :-) ). So, you no longer send subscribe/signoff messages to ixo-request@warren.mentorg.com. Now you send them to majordomo@warren.mentorg.com ("majordomo" means "one who talks for others", by the way). This should make my life easier as I won't have to manually respond to every signon/signoff request. Send "help" in the body of a message to majordomo@warren.mentorg.com (the Subject is ignored) for more information. From any Unix shell: echo help | mail majordomo@warren.mentorg.com (it will respond with a helpful message) Posting is still done by sending email to ixo@warren.mentorg.com. From: tom_limoncelli@Warren.MENTORG.COM Subject: NEW FTP SITE Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 18:16:16 -0500 (EDT) Thanks to Robert E. Landsparger we now have an FTP site for tpage! site: anonftp.geo.mtu.edu (141.219.21.210) login: anonymous dir: pub/ixo Thanks Rob! Tom ------------------------------ From: stevef@wrq.com (Steve Forrette) Subject: Re: Is AT&T no Longer Asking For Caller Name on a Collect Call? Date: 13 Jul 1993 01:00:38 GMT Organization: Walker Richer & Quinn, Inc., Seattle, WA In article wagner@utoday.com (Mitch Wagner) writes: >> [Moderator's Note: Now what would happen if when the call supervised, >> for a few seconds all operator positions were busy? > What if it connects to the operator first? That way, until the operaor > is available, the call does not go through to the called party? > Wouldn't that work? Is that the way it's done now? This would defeat the whole purpose of the new system! The fact that the operator's time is not allocated until after the call supervises is what enables cost savings by only having the machine (and the caller) listen to the ringing. In the event of no-answer or busy, no operator time is used at all. In the case of an answer, several seconds are still saved. It was suggested by someone that the forward talk path is not cut through until after the operator confirms charge acceptance -- this is not the case. Just today, I had to call collect to Pacific Bell from Seattle, and used AT&T to make a collect call. When Pacific Bell's ACD answered, it told me to "press 1 for..." I made my selections and the ACD responded to my choices. Then, there was a few seconds of silence while it transferred my call. There was never any indication during my menu selections that the operator was on the line (the call had indeed already supervised, but the operator apparently stayed quiet while I made my selections). I guessed that either I had gotten away with a free call (not likely), or that the operator was trained to wait until a person answered. Sure enough, as soon as my turn came up in the queue (fortunately quickly) and a person answered, the operator asked about call acceptance by saying "This is the AT&T operator. Will you accept a collect call from (caller state your name)" Interestingly, the recipient asked for my area code before deciding on call acceptance, and the operator did not tell them, but instead asked me to state my area code. I would assume that she had that information on her screen. So, in summary, the forward call path is cut through on AT&T collect calls as soon as the call supervises, at least in the cases where the operator is immediately available. So I guess there is the opportunity for the caller to blurt out something quickly and hang up. Steve Forrette, stevef@wrq.com ------------------------------ From: cogorno@netcom.com (Steve Cogorno) Subject: Re: Is AT&T no Longer Asking For Caller Name on a Collect Call? Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 03:20:34 GMT I wouldn't be surprised if the format has changed. PacBell now uses an automated system for collect calls. You dial 0-xxx-xxx, and the wait. You will hear a voice that says, "please dial your cardnumber, or 11 for a collect call." You record your name, and you are put on hold. The Remote phone rings and that Digital PacBell woman says "This is Pacific Bell, with a collect call from " [your voice here]". To accept this call, press 1, otherwise hang up now." THis is supposedly going to save the telcom a bunch of money. Steve cogorno@netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 19:31:22 EDT From: guy@intgp1.att.com Subject: Re: Is AT&T no Longer Asking For Caller Name on a Collect Call? Organization: AT&T > [Moderator's Note: Now what would happen if when the call supervised, > for a few seconds all operator positions were busy? That is, my phone The system, and operator service center is engineered to prevent this from happening, but if there is no operator availible when the call connects, you get a short announcement, not free talk time. ------------------------------ From: paul@senex.unh.edu (Paul S. Sawyer) Subject: Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? Date: 14 Jul 1993 15:19:44 GMT Organization: UNH Telecommunications and Network Services I thought I had seen a list like this compiled once, but... There's "Operator" by the Grateful Dead, and don't forget "Memphis" (by Johnny Rivers?), and "Chantilly Lace" by the Big Bopper (the late J.P. Richardson), all sung from a user perspective. Paul S. Sawyer - University of New Hampshire CIS - Paul_Sawyer@unh.edu Telecommunications and Network Services VOX: +1 603 862 3262 50 College Road FAX: +1 603 862 2030 Durham, New Hampshire 03824-3523 ------------------------------ From: Andy.Behrens@coat.com Subject: Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 19:32:33 GMT What more appropriate song than "Telstar" (by the Ventures), an instrumental hit that celebrated the first commercial communications satellite. Telstar 1 was launched in 1962 and operated for seven months, until it was damaged by radiation from a high-altitude atom-bomb test. It could process either six simultaneous two-way telephone calls or a single television channel. Telstar transmitted the first direct television pictures from the United States to Europe on July 10, 1962. Andy Behrens Burlington Coat Factory, Schoolhouse Rd., Etna, N.H. 03750 (603) 643-2800 ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? From: jgeorge@whiffer.mese.com Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 03:29:22 EST Organization: The Waffle Whiffer, Atlanta, GA In comp.dcom.telecom you write: >> In the interim, e.g. until we get some other nominations > I nominate Mars Lasar's "Cellular City" from his Eleventh Hour CD. It > includes sampled DTMF tones, ringback and intercepts. The song came > onto our office music system as I was cutting over to a new key system. > At first I thought that I had wired the system wrong and it had started > speed dialing itself :-). The German industrial group Kraftwerk has a song (from the Electric Cafe CD) called "The Telephone Call". The melody and the rhythm lines are made up of touch tones, busy signals, dialtones, intercept tones, and a variety of international "The number you have reached ..." recordings. Joe George (jgeorge@whiffer.mese.com, emory!indigo!whiffer!jgeorge) Actually, I _do_ speak for The Waffle Whiffer ------------------------------ From: oppedahl@panix.com (Carl Oppedahl) Subject: Re: Do Operators Interrupt Modem Calls? Date: 13 Jul 1993 09:27:58 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC In tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) writes: > Today I was logged on to a remote computer via modem for three hours. > A friend needed to contact me, and getting repeated busy signals, > asked an operator for an "emergency" interrupt. The operator said > there was "static" on the line and did I "have a computer"? Nothing > was done, apart from me getting some garbage once. Can operators > constructively and in a technically competent way interrupt modem > calls? Or are they "scared" to? > [Moderator's Note: There is nothing different about a modem line than > any other from the operator's point of view. The operator can do an > emergency interuppt on most lines (there is a class of service in some > telcos which prevent even the operator from interuppting if the line > is set up that way), but the operator can only speak in a human voice, > thus is unable to communicate with a modem. In this case, the operator > make an intelligent decision about what she heard, and reached the > conclusion that regardless of how long she stayed on the line asking > for a human being to respond to her, it was not likely to occur. The > only thing that would occur, given enough persistence by the operator > would be the complete garbaging-out of the connection and the abandon- > ment by the computer operator (yourself) of the call. In other words, > whether or not you wished to acknowlege the emergency interuppt (which > by law you are supposed to do if the calling party claims an emergency > exists), you'd be the loser and the interuppter would be the winner. This is yet another reason why it is smart to use V.42 error correction (or MNP 4). I occasionally have the bad luck that someone will pick up a phone while a data line call is in progress. Before I was using V.42 such a pickup would generally fill the screen with junk and often lose the call. But with error correction nothing bad happens on the screen -- it's just that for a few seconds the data flow pauses. Oh, and the EC light flickers on the modem. An operator interrupt would do the same sort of thing. In the extreme case, of course, the operator interrupt could result in loss of carrier and a lost connection. But with V.42 or MNP 4 it would have to be pretty extreme. Carl Oppedahl AA2KW (intellectual property lawyer) 30 Rockefeller Plaza New York, NY 10112-0228 voice 212-408-2578 fax 212-765-2519 ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #476 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa12682; 14 Jul 93 19:06 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA09836 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Wed, 14 Jul 1993 16:10:26 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA13070 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Wed, 14 Jul 1993 16:09:34 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 16:09:34 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307142109.AA13070@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #477 TELECOM Digest Wed, 14 Jul 93 16:09:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 477 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Meeting Highlights for the June 93 NIU-Forum (Steve Rogers) Lightspan 2000 (Ernie Billingsely) Need Information on High-Performance Networks (Tracy M. Nelson) TrueVoice vs. Modems (Ralph Hyres) Cherry Communications (Carl Moore) On Obtaining 900 Numbers (Elana Beach) Long Distance Companies Keep Sending Me Money! (B.J. Guillot) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: srogers@tad.eds.com (Steve Rogers) Subject: Meeting Highlights for the June 93 NIU-Forum Organization: EDS Technology Architecture Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 18:31:22 GMT (NIUF) Volume 2 Number 2 NIUF Meeting Highlights, June 22-25, 1993 The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) in Gaithersburg, Maryland, hosted the eighteenth meeting of the NIUF on June 22-25, 1993. Over 230 users, implementors, and service providers of ISDN technology attended the forum. This NIUF meeting continued the tradition of providing continuing education in ISDN related topics by offering the following tutorials as part of the regular meeting: - "Overview of NIUF/New Users & New Implementors", by Karen Patten, AT&T, and Don Auble, Ameritech - "Migration to Broadband ISDN", by Dan Ward, Siemens Strom- berg-Carlson - "Basic ISDN", by Steve Rogers, EDS - "ISDN .. What is It? Where Are We? Where Are We Going?", by Wunnava V. Subbarao, Florida International University - Application Software Interface, by Robert Toense, NIST - National ISDN User Applications, by Kay Burin, Bellcore-TEC In addition, the Broadband ISDN Working Group presented the following tutorials: - "SMDS," by Deidre Kostick, Bellcore - "North Carolina Broadband Network," by Dan Spears, BellSouth The ISDN User Workshop held its first General User Meeting in an attempt to cover topics of interest to a wide range of Users and Implementors. This first meeting was a resounding success both from the interest generated by the topics and the number of people attending the session. There were three main topics discussed at the meeting: 1) the current state of ISDN tariffs in the United States and Canada; 2) the status of the Tennessee Public Utilities Commission ISDN field trials; and 3) a panel discussion on the impact of the Clean Air Act Amendment on state and local governments and the use of telecommuting as a potential solution. Cathy Simon, Ameritech Services, gave a presentation on "Na- tional ISDN Tariff and Pricing Guide." This session was the first presentation of a contribution from the Exchange Carriers regarding their current tariffed ISDN offerings. This contribu- tion was in direct response to users' request for information on general tariff availability and pricing information in a consis- tent format that can be used in decision-making processes regarding ISDN services. The document, presented at this session, details the Basic Rate and Primary Rate pricing information (Installation and Monthly rates), by Interface Configuration, for each "Single Line," Centrex, and Primary Rate offering by state and province where the information was available. The document is a major accomplishment in meeting the needs of users for information they can use and Cathy Simon is to be congratulated for the effort she has put forward in compiling this milestone document. Ronnie Vines, BellSouth, gave the second presentation on "Ten- nessee Trial." This session covered the PUC-mandated field trial of ISDN in four major Tennessee metropolitan areas in which customers have been given ISDN service free of charge. Ronnie discussed the limits placed on the initial participation in the trial as well as the response and some lessons learned. The presentation covered some of the problems faced in marketing the service as well as stumbling blocks to user acceptance. On the positive side, the presentation showed that there are some customer applications that ISDN is in demand for, one of the primary being telecommuting. The last presentation consisted of a panel discussion led by Rich Raybold of Raybold Consulting, titled "The Clean Air Act - Telecommuting - ISDN." The expert panel as assembled by Rich included Dr. Edward Risse of Synergy/Planning, Inc., Fairfax, Virginia; Dr. Wendell Joyce, Personnel Research Psychologist from the U.S. Office of Personnel Management; and Marsha Fuller, Owner/Manager of Fuller Consulting Service of Hagerstown, Maryland. The panel discussed the requirements of the Clean Air Act of 1990 with special emphasis on the requirement to reduce consumer-related travel in high pollution areas and the penal- ties that can be charged to employers that do not develop com- pliance plans. Regional approaches to applying such concepts as telecommuting to comply with the act were discussed. Real-life experiences with early telecommuting trials under way in the Washington, D.C. area were covered. The panel also discussed both management and human factors that were key in the successful trials. This topic was so thought-provoking that it led to discussions over the remaining days of the NIUF meeting as to how the NIUF might be able to meet the challenge of educating and assisting local and state governments on the benefits of ISDN in accomplishing the goal of increased telecommuting in response to the Clean Air Act. There were a number of presentations related to the National ISDN planning process held as a part of this NIUF meeting. They include a presentation at the Versions - Capability Analysis and Planning Group (VCAP) by Pat Donovan (Bell Atlantic). Pat presented the provisional definition of National ISDN-3 based on the input received by Bellcore from both the NIUF and other segments of the industry. All National ISDN-3 capabilities were identified as they associate with the NIUF capability priorities that have been provided by the forum over the past year. Following Pat's presentation, a brief panel discussion included representatives from AT&T, NTI, Siemens Stromberg-Carlson, Ericsson, and Ameritech. In the ISDN CPE and Software Working Group (ICSW) meeting, Central Office (CO) switch manufacturers - AT&T, Northern Telecom, Siemens, and Ericsson, made presentations on the implementation schedules for National ISDN-2. Manufacturers of Basic Rate ISDN terminal equipment also spoke on their activities in the ISDN market and on issues as they see them. The October meeting will include presentations by the Primary Rate ISDN voice and data product suppliers. Ameritech sponsored a session on the Primary Rate ISDN switched fractional services that will become available with National ISDN-2. The ICSW wrote two liaison letters to the COS ISDN Executive Interest Group. One letter calls for a joint meeting between a delegation from the ICSW and the COS ISDN Executive Interest Group. The second letter recommends the development of a common ISDN service and product identification mark. The initial draft of the second edition of "A Catalog of National ISDN Solutions for Selected NIUF Applications" was presented to the forum and discussed. The forum's goal is to publish the second edition in February 1994. The new edition will focus on new solutions which include NI-2 and PRI capabilities. It will also include a new ISDN overview targeted at the decision-making consumer. The ICSW Basic Rate Subcommittee is working towards the imple- mentation of the simplified ISDN ordering procedures by the end of the year. They also started an initiative to produce a document that shows how to do wiring and provide power for ISDN installations in homes and small businesses. The ICSW PBX Subcommittee began an effort to facilitate the standardization of the ISDN-based Q.SIG protocols for ISDN PBX interworking. The group produced a liaison letter to be sent to the COS ISDN Executive Interest Group that defines the issues that relate to the implementation of PBXs in an ISDN environment. The need for a Broadband Application Profile Team has been identified by the Broadband Working Group and the ISDN Implemen- tors' Workshop (IIW) recommended that this group be formed at the next meeting under the IIW. For information on the forma- tion of this group, contact Al Kerecman of USA CECOM at 908/532-3608 or Glenn Ehley of Siemens Stromberg-Carlson at 407/955-6476. The Application Analysis Technical Working Group helped advance work on the ISDN Application titled "Interactive Simulation", championed by users from the U.S. Army and other Dept. of Defense organizations. The objective of this application is to achieve transparent interoperability of a wide range of simulators, simulations, and actual equipment operating seamlessly in both real and virtual environments. The purpose is to promote faster and more affordable high-quality acquisitions; to achieve greater training proficiency and skill sets in shorter times; and to effectively rehearse out of harm's way. Al Kerecman of USA CECOM is leading the work. The ISDN Conformance Testing ACT 1 Technical Working Group has completed the revision of the Layer 1 Conformance Tests for the Basic Rate S/T Interface. The revised tests are based on the 1991 version of the ANSI T1.605 standard. The new test document includes an appendix which compares the ACT 1 tests to the CTS-2 tests. Also in the conformance test area, a draft contribution for Network to Network Interface (NNI) has been presented as a working document. Finally, at the May TSS (CCITT) meeting, the Q.933 Annex A Test Suite, developed in the NIUF ICOT Group, was presented and accepted as baseline text. In the Enterprise Network Data Interconnectivity Family (ENDIF) meeting, end-users and ISDN-LAN equipment vendors discussed the need for interoperability among different vendors' equipment for applications (involving access to LANs and between LANs) using ISDN. Strawman solution proposals were discussed and IETF activities and documents were considered. The breakthrough goal for this group is to be able to agree on methodology, implement it in real products, and demonstrate multi-vendor interoperability by the next NIUF meeting in October. The Call Management Family continued joint meetings with the Call Management Profile Team. The major work in progress is the Telecommuting Application Profile being led by Bob Schickofke of Siemens Stromberg-Carlson. This document has made major advances in the past two meetings, and it is hoped that a stable draft can be presented at the next NIUF meeting. The combined groups also met with the ENDIF Group to discuss areas of mutual concern related to the Telecommuting Profile and access to enterprise networks. Both teams agreed to incorporate the ENDIF contributions on LAN interoperability into the telecommuting profile. Comments from both committees will be submitted by mid-September. In the Messaging and Answering Family meeting, David LaPier presented a revised version of the Unified Message Retrieval Application Analysis. Further comments from the team were incorporated and the analysis was approved. Jim Rothweiler, Bellcore, presented a recently completed survey assessing five new features that will support the voice messaging industry in providing service to the consumer market. The presentation provided details of the joint analysis used to assess the pri- mary market research, a segmentation analysis of potential new end-users, and plans for implementing the proposed features. The Strategic Planning and Public Policy Group led by IUW Vice-Chair Jake Jacobson of Jet Propulsion Laboratory continued work on defining the future direction for the Forum. Discussion in this group included the possibility of developing an information package to help local governments understand the impact of the Clean Air Act. This information packet would also show how applications like telecommuting using ISDN could help meet the vehicle traffic reduction goals outlined in this legislation. Glenn Ehley, IIW Chair, requested suggestions for an "Increased Participation Drive." He received several good recommendations, including the use of telecommunication graduate students to assist with the application analysis process (recommended by Dave Roland). Major work continued on many issues important to users, includ- ing approval at the final plenary of the Phase One document for the simplification of ISDN provisioning and ordering. This document covers the ISDN Parameter Grouping that will be used to match ISDN service parameters to specific application requirements. The Phase Two document, covering ISDN Interface Groups, was declared working group stable by the Ad Hoc Group on the Simplification of ISDN Ordering, Provisioning, and Installation. At the Wednesday evening NIUF Banquet Matt Thomson, Northern Telecom, received a certificate of recognition for his leader- ship in the NIUF and his work on TRIP '92. In addition, Dr. Robert M. Metcalfe, Publisher and CEO of InfoWorld, recognized the NIUF and COS with the Publisher's Industry Milestone Award for their efforts in the success of TRIP '92. Eve Aretakis, Vice President of Marketing at Siemens Stromberg-Carlson, pre- sented a talk on "ISDN Data Services: Can they Survive the Broadband Data Explosion." The closing plenary approved the following documents on June 25, 1993: - A Generic Model for ISDN Cost Analysis (NIUF 417-93) - Phase 1 NIUF ISDN Parameter Groups (NIPGs) (NIUF 418-93) - BRI Class I Implementation Agreement Addendum (NIUF 419-93) - PRI Class II Implementation Agreement Addendum (NIUF 420-93) - Application Software Interface - Overview and Protocol Part 1 Addendum (NIUF 403R2-92) The following documents were announced as working group stable and will be voted on at the next meeting, if no substantive comments are received: - Video Conference Application (VAC 93-1) - Frame Relay Conformance Test Suite for ANS T1.617 Annex D Permanent Virtual Connection (PVC) Part I: Test Suite Structure and Test Purpose [ICOT-93-01 ACTFR-92-014.08] - Frame Relay Conformance Test Suite for ANS T1.617 Annex D Permanent Virtual Connection (PVC) Part 2: Protocol Implementation Extra Information for Testing (PIXIT) [ICOT-93-02, ACTFR-92-025.05] - Frame Relay Conformance Test Suite for ANS T1.617 Annex D Permanent Virtual Connection (PVC) Part 3: Conformance Test Suite [ICOT-93-03, ACTFR-92-026.06] - ISDN Layer 1 Conformance Testing - Basic Access S/T Interface [ICOT-93-04, ACT1-93-010] - ISDN Layer 3 Basic call Control Abstract Test Suite - Primary Rate Interface (PRI)/ Class II User Side [ICOT-93-05, ACT23-93-08] - Phase 2 NIUF ISDN Parameter Groups (NIPGs) There were five new applications submitted to the IUW: 93-004.1 Call-by-Call Service Selection 93-005.1 High Quality Audio Transmission 93-006.6 Residential and Small Business Internal "Party Line" 93-007.6 Tip/Ring Type ISDN Terminal Applications 93-008.6 Unrestricted ISDN BRI Trunk From Central Office The next NIUF meeting will be held at the National Institute of Standards and Technology in Gaithersburg, Maryland, October 19-22, 1993. Contact Dawn Hoffman at 301-975-2937 for further information. ----------------- Steve Rogers srogers@tad.eds.com EDS Technology Architecture Plano, Texas ------------------------------ From: Ernie Billingsely Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 14:55:32 EST Subject: Lightspan 2000 Recently our LEC (Michigan Bell Telephone) has agreed to provide dial tone in a building we are purchasing. They will bring the circuits in on fiber and convert to copper using a Lightspan 2000. Does anyone reading this have any information on this equipment or know where I can find some info? I hate having equipment installed when I don't know how it works. Please reply to ebilling@cms.cc.wayne.edu. Any info would be appreciated especially info regarding capacity, environmental requirements, and performance. Thanks. ------------------------------ From: tnelson@fluorite.telesciences.com (Tracy M Nelson) Subject: Need Information on High-Performance Networks Organization: TeleSciences CO Systems, Inc. Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 15:58:44 GMT I need some information on high-performance networks. A friend of mine (w/o net access) is trying to build a high-performance (max throughput) network. He will be transferring 3-4GB files from a 1-2TB database (hey, that's what he told me). Any references to research articles or commercial products would be greatly appreciated. He has questions like: What is the maximum throughput of a "standard" (whatever that means...) fiber-optic cable? What benefit would there be to using an ATM network as opposed to a T3 line (or lines). You may reply directly to me; I'll summarize if anyone else is interested. Thanks! Tracy Nelson ------------------------------ From: rhyre@bears.att.com Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 13:04:12 EDT Subject: TrueVoice vs. Modems Here`s what I've seen written about how TrueVoice works. How will data calls be affected? (Hopefully, the same modem carrier tones that turn off echo supressors will also disable the TrueVoice feature.) ------------- Through a patented technical innovation developed by AT&T Bell Laboratories, AT&T TrueVoice makes long- distance calls sound clearer, closer and more natural by boosting the lower, or bass, end of the calls' sound spectrum while raising their overall sound level. ... Deployment of AT&T TrueVoice in the AT&T network will begin in September 1993 and will continue, city by city, through the end of 1994. To hear a demonstration of AT&T TrueVoice, call 800-932-2000. A Spanish language version is available on 800-792-9100. A major advertising campaign on AT&T TrueVoice will air tonight during baseball's All-Star Game. -------------- Since the network is digital, I would suspect this is all being done in software, somewhere, somehow. That's a LOT of CPU cycles for 100+ million calls/day. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 14:02:31 GMT From: Carl Moore Subject: Cherry Communications On my drive along Illinois route 1, I found (in Kankakee County) a phone apparently owned by Cherry Communications, 2001 Butterfield Rd., Downers Grove, IL 60515, with the firm's telephone number being 708-719-1595. It advertises: must use coins; 25 cents per minute anywhere in U.S. except Alaska, Hawaii, and in-state; three minute minimum. There was no number displayed as belonging to that phone. I placed a call using AT&T, and it turned out to be Kankakee (815-939), which at least at first glance appears to be a foreign exchange. If it is foreign, it is a neighboring exchange; I checked the map and along Illinois route 1, I come as close as seven miles to the center of the town of Kankakee. Unless I did indeed scrape the east edge of the Kankakee exchange, I'd expect to be in the St. Anne (815-427, to the south) or Momence (815-472, to the north) exchanges. ------------------------------ From: elana@netcom.com (Elana Beach) Subject: On Obtaining 900 Numbers Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 15:15:01 GMT Curiosity has got me ... what's all the complications involved in getting a 900 number on your own without paying $35 or $99 to some "we'll show you how to get a 900 number" outfit? What are the risks/stupidities involved either way? If this information is available in the archives, it's time for me to learn FTP. It would be interesting to see what this 900 stuff looks like from the inside, and to see what the telecom readers have to say as well. Thanks. A Curious Cat (uh, oh! :) Seriously from: Elana [Moderator's Note: If you are at all telecom saavy, there is no reason to use one of those companies with the sole exception being they can sometimes cut you a better deal than telco based on their volume pur- chases of 900 lines; also sometimes they can get you better deals on service bureaus sometimes unless you plan to process the charges on your own. When I say 'better deal than telco' I mean for example the way Illinois Bell does business with 976 lines. *Before they will even talk to you at all* you send them a certified check or cashier's check for $2000. *Then* they assign a representative to help you configure the service and get the lines installed. Most service bureaus are not quite that demanding. How do you find which ones? Spend the money to buy the manual those companies sell! :) PAT] ------------------------------ From: st1r8@elroy.uh.edu (B.J. Guillot) Subject: Long Distance Companies Keep Sending Me Money! Date: 14 Jul 1993 13:35 CDT Organization: University of Houston About four or five weeks ago, AT&T sent me a letter with a $50 check if we switch to AT&T. Well, my Dad who pays for most of the phone bill went ahead and cashed it. We've had AT&T on that line for about a week now, and today we received a letter from MCI with a check for $20 if we switch to them. (I was previously using Vartec on that line before AT&T's check.) So, should I switch to MCI and get $20 more or will AT&T get mad for losing $50 on me? Regards, B.J. Guillot ... Houston, Texas USA ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #477 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa14284; 14 Jul 93 20:03 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA01729 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Wed, 14 Jul 1993 17:08:14 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA24905 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Wed, 14 Jul 1993 17:07:13 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 17:07:13 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307142207.AA24905@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #478 TELECOM Digest Wed, 14 Jul 93 17:07:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 478 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: White House Orders No Bid Phone System (Guy J. Sherr) Re: White House Orders No Bid Phone System (Christopher Zguris) Re: 811 in California (Steve Forrette) Re: 811 in California (Bob Schwartz) Re: 811 to Reach Telco Business Offices (Dick Rawson) Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? (Michael Schuster) Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? (Michael Covington) Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? (Joe Lynn) Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? (John L. Luigi Giasi) Re: Incident at a COCOT (Justin Greene) Re: Incident at a COCOT (Carol Springs) Re: NPA Locator Shareware Program Wanted (Bill Garfield) Re: NPA Locator Shareware Program Wanted (Paul Cook) Re: MCI Outage (Daniel Burstein) Re: MCI Outage (Tony Pelliccio) Re: MCI Outage (Bruce Sullivan) Re: Kerberos on Cellular Telephones (Richard Thomsen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 14:58 GMT From: Guy J. Sherr <0004322955@mcimail.com> Subject: Re: White House Orders No-Bid Phone System While it seems interesting that the White House could arrange for service without bidding through the contract(s), there are two things which bear pointing out: 1. Bill Clinton's cousins do not own or operate C&P or AT&T. 2. Whatever happened to FTS-2000!? The GSA is suppsed to mother the phones everywhere. Besides that, I thought he dropped 25% of his staff. Now he can't answer every phone call, so he bought more phones. Did he also get personnel? [Moderator's Note: No more staff! He is putting in voicemail; you know, the computer which says press 'P' if you want to leave a message of praise, press 'C'; if you want to comment; press 'Q' if you think Clinton should quit; press 'Z' if you wish to complain, enter your ten digit telephone number if you wish a personal consultation with the IRS auditor in your zip code about how you can begin now to pay the taxes you will owe by 1996, etc ... :) PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 93 16:14 GMT From: Christopher Zguris <0004854540@mcimail.com> Subject: Re: White House Orders No Bid Phone System TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM (Paul Robinson) writes: > There has been considerable flack placed upon the White House for > deciding to contact two switch bidders -- Northern Telecom and AT&T -- > and deciding to place an order consisting of Centrex service from C&P > Telephone and ordering a switch from AT&T, without putting this > contract out for bids. As far as the security of the system, wouldn't the National Security Agency check and/or supervise in installation of the system regardless of who provides it? With something so potentially snesitive as the White House phone system, I can't believe they'd just install a system no questions asked, even if it was installed by AT&T. Wouldn't the system installation be supervised and checked by the NSA since they handle electronic encryption/decryption systems? Christopher Zguris CZGURIS@MCIMail.com [Moderator's Note: The main thing is, since Bill is now signed up on Compuserve (so is Rush Limbaugh, coincidentally; he uses CB to help propogate his gospel) does the system have a way to cancel call-waiting so Bill won't get knocked off line in case Hillary gets a call? :) PAT] ------------------------------ From: stevef@wrq.com (Steve Forrette) Subject: Re: 811 in California Date: 14 Jul 1993 23:04:23 GMT Organization: Walker Richer & Quinn, Inc., Seattle, WA In article jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) writes: >> It didn't make sense to have 800 numbers for out of state and 811 >> in-state, so they just made all of us dial an extra four digits. :-( > A side note, many smaller telco's use in-state only 800 service for > the business office and do not list a number that can be reached from > out of the area :-(. Pacific Bell has phased out the 811 numbers. They may still work, but all published numbers to reach the business office are now 800 numbers. However, the transition has not been smooth. I have a Remote Call Forwarding line from them which gets billed to me here in Seattle. On the bill, it lists one number for billing questions, one for service changes, and a third for out-of-state callers. Unfortunately, the out-of-state number is "diconnected," and the other two definately don't work from out-of-state. So, I had to do some digging myself to come up with good numbers. When I mentioned this to the service rep, he said that they were aware of the problem and were trying to get it fixed for the next billing cycle. Sometimes, things like this make me wonder what kind of software is used to generate the bills. When it lists the out-of-state numbers, it says "If this is not an 800 number, call collect." Doesn't the software know whether the number it's about to print is an 800 number or not? Steve Forrette, stevef@wrq.com ------------------------------ Subject: Re: 811 in California From: bob@bci.nbn.com (Bob Schwartz) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 13:19:40 PDT Organization: Bill Correctors, Inc., Marin County, California There are two more potential reasons to consider while trying to figure out why Pacific Bell seems to be shying away from the 811 prefix. 1.) It may be an unfair competative trade practice - no one else can have a statewide prefix. 2.) If they do it it has to be available for others and it isn't. ( This is really a variation of reason 1.) Consider also that Florida opened a new prefix or two for statewide dialing last year and that Pacific has reserved the entire prefix for itself. Thge only statewide prefix. Also consider that competition for LATA traffic is comming to Calif. and that each company offering same would love to have a statewide prefix of it's own for customer service (811) and repair (611). ALSO the caller is not billed for these calls, the called party picks up the tab much like a 10 digit 800 number. Bob Schwartz bob@bci.nbn.com Bill Correctors, Inc. +1 415 488 9000 Marin County, California ------------------------------ From: drawson@Tymnet.COM (Dick Rawson) Subject: Re: 811 to Reach Telco Business Offices Date: 14 Jul 93 16:35:53 GMT Organization: BT North America, San Jose CA. My June 10 statement has one remaining 811 number, for past due account information. For payment arrangements and billing questions, and for adding, changing or disconnecting service, there is one 800 number. (Plus the Centro Hispano de Pacific Bell, llame gratis, which is a different 800 number.) So don't let the bill get past due if you are paying it from out of state! Dick Rawson, BT North America ------------------------------ From: schuster@panix.com (Michael Schuster) Subject: Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? Date: 14 Jul 1993 20:05:14 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC In article Bart Z. Lederman writes: > Anyone care to speculate on what is going to happen when the > FCC has two rules in place: one which requires manufacturers to > build receivers that cover these frequencies, and one which > prohibits them from building receivers which cover these > frequencies because they could be used to listen in on telephone > calls? I don't seen the conflict. Recent FCC action on receiver frequency coverage has been to ban the sale of scanners covering cellular frequencies. Cordless phones frequencies (old or new) are not covered. So there is no rule in place which would forbid the sale of radios that receive the extended medium wave band. Some states have passed laws making monitoring of cordless phone illegal, but not the FCC. Mike Schuster | schuster@panix.com | 70346.1745@CompuServe.COM | schuster@shell.portal.com | GEnie: MSCHUSTER ------------------------------ From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) Subject: Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? Organization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 01:22:48 GMT (1) There is no "no radios can receive telephone calls" rule. There is a law against selling scanning receivers that tune in *cellular* phone frequencies. Cordless, ship-to-shore, and other kinds of radio telephones are not affected. (2) The Supreme Court ruled a while back that, unlike cellular phones, *cordless* phones had no "reasonable expectation of privacy" anyhow (presumably because no attempt is made to assign non-conflicting frequencies). So the extension of the AM band to 1700 kHz (or is it 1750?) will not conflict with any privacy laws. Shortwave radios that tune those frequencies have, after all, always been around. And many of us are sad about the ban on receivers that get the cellular frequencies, for 2 reasons: (1) The proper technical solution is to encrypt the signal at the _transmitter_; (2) Heretofore, Americans had been allowed to buy radios that would tune any frequency whatsoever; this is the very first peacetime ban on radio receivers that I know of. (Although the receivers still aren't illegal to own, merely illegal to market.) Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI ------------------------------ From: jtl@genesis.MCS.COM (Joe Lynn) Subject: Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? Date: 14 Jul 1993 12:19:07 -0500 Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. In article Bart Z. Lederman writes: > According to the May 1993 issue of {Popular Communications}, > the FCC plans to expand the upper end of the AM Broadcast band to > 1700 kHz. The FCC approved the expansion of the AM broadcast band to 1710 kHz a few years ago. Most of the major electronics manufacturers immediately began making radios that include this extra section: check this out next time you're in a store that sells boom boxes, Walkmans, and car stereos; most of them go up to 1710 kHz now. (The AM section of the factory-installed radio in my 1990 Mazda goes up to 1710.) While there are no (broadcast) stations currently in the new section of the band, the FCC is offering various incentives to get stations to move into it (such as allowing higher power on the higher band, while simulcasting on their existing frequency). This topic is covered pretty regularly in rec.radio.broadcasting, rec.radio.shortwave, and magazines like _Popular Communications_ and _Monitoring Times_. Joe Lynn jtl@genesis.mcs.com ------------------------------ From: jlgiasi@umassmed.ummed.edu (John L. Luigi Giasi) Subject: Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? Date: 14 Jul 93 20:14:06 GMT Organization: University of Massachusetts Medical Center; Worcester, MA 01655 > Anyone care to speculate on what is going to happen when the > FCC has two rules in place: one which requires manufacturers to > build receivers that cover these frequencies, and one which > prohibits them from building receivers which cover these > frequencies because they could be used to listen in on telephone > calls? > Anyone want to quote odds on the FCC levying fines on the same > company twice: once for not making the receivers, and then again > for making them? (Ah, now I understand! It's a conspiracy to > make the Japanese pay for reducing our national debt!) There is no conflict here, you are confusing the portion of the ECPA which make the receivers of CELLULAR phones illegal. Reception of cordless phones, be they in the AM medium wave band or the 49Mhz style are, at this time, still legal to listen in on. I would love to expound on why the ECPA is an great example of a BAD LAW, but I have probably peppered too much opinion in here already. Relaying the information gleaned from such monitoring is still illegal by the provisions of the Communications Act of 1934 (Amended), but nobody seems to notice/prosecute any of many instances. (Don't hold me to any of that if you do get prosecuted! Remember, I am not a lawyer.) John L Luigi Giasi, AA1AA jlgiasi@umassmed.ummed.edu System Programmer/Administrator Scientific Computing, IRD University of Massachusetts Medical Center ------------------------------ From: jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) Subject: Re: Incident at a COCOT Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 16:10:07 GMT > [Moderator's Note: COCOTS cannot legally block calls to 800 numbers. > If they want to charge you $1.70 for a local call, that is their > business, but they cannot deny access freely to 800 numbers or the > 10xxx carrier of your choice, nor can they legally block 950. When So If one wants to complain, who would be the proper authority? Justin Greene Finger for PGP 2.x public key ------------------------------ From: csprings@mgh.com (Carol Springs) Subject: Re: Incident at a COCOT Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 13:54:20 -0400 (EDT) > [Moderator's Note: COCOTS cannot legally block calls to 800 numbers. > If they want to charge you $1.70 for a local call, that is their > business, but they cannot deny access freely to 800 numbers or the > 10xxx carrier of your choice, nor can they legally block 950. When > this topic came up here a couple years ago, someone devised a gummy > sticker which said "PHONE OUT OF COMPLIANCE - DO NOT USE". If you're lucky, the noncompliant phone will at least have the correct FCC address posted on it to report the violation. (I wonder what the percentage is of COCOTs that actually list this address -- especially if someone might be tempted to use it?) I copied the following from a COCOT at a Pancake Chef near Sea-Tac Airport: FCC / Common Carrier Bureau Enforcement Division 2025 M Street N.W. Washington, DC 20554 The default carrier was Fone America, which proudly proclaimed that it would put (coin) calls through anywhere in the U.S. at $1.00 for four minutes. Calling the 800 access numbers for both LDS's Orange Card and Sprint resulted in a brief connection that was broken as soon as the tone prompt started coming through. I wrote to the address above a few days afterward; it'll be interesting to see what, if any, response I get. Carol Springs carols@world.std.com ------------------------------ Subject: Re: NPA Locator Shareware Program Wanted From: bill.garfield@yob.sccsi.com (Bill Garfield) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 07:58:00 -0600 Organization: Ye Olde Bailey BBS - Houston, TX - 713-520-1569 Reply-To: bill.garfield@yob.sccsi.com (Bill Garfield) > I'm a recent subscriber to TELECOM Digest. Can someone point me to > this shareware program for searching for telephone prefixes? > [Moderator's Note: They're around, although I don't have one in the > Telecom Archives. What we do have in the archives is a very detailed etcetera ... Possibly the program you seek is one which I announced to c.d.t. several months ago written by Robert Ricketts. His program, NPA931.ZIP (for '93 1st Q) is one of the most all-encompassing programs I've seen for the task. NPA931.ZIP is available on CI$ in the Safety net forum and was also posted nearest to you on Sound Advice bbs in Gladstone, MO (near KC). It has also been posted worldwide via various other mediums and is aslo available from Exec-PC. Sorry, I do not know where you can obtain it via ftp. The program is $25 shareware and is not crippled in any way. It comes with a *huge* database. Program features include NPA/NXX searches including wildcards in EITHER the NPA or NXX field or both (copious output!!). Search by NPA/NXX or NPA/CITY or STATE/NXX or CITY/STATE. Program performs a sliding search on city names. Output includes great circle mileage between NXX's, County name & population, longitude & latitude, and ZIPcode of the NXX. The program runs under DOS. Author is Robert Ricketts (713) 627-4563 (1 of many, many numbers where he can be reached) Ye Olde Bailey BBS 713-520-1569 (V.32bis) 713-520-9566 (V.32bis) Houston,Texas yob.sccsi.com Home of alt.cosuard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 16:10 GMT From: Proctor & Associates <0003991080@mcimail.com> Subject: Re: NPA Locator Shareware Program Wanted Curtis Bohl extmo4h@mizzou1.missouri.edu writes: > I'm a recent subscriber to TELECOM Digest. Can someone point me to > this shareware program for searching for telephone prefixes? NPA is a shareware program that has been mentioned here in the past. With it you can find out the latitude and longitude, city name and zip code for any prefix in the North American numbering plan (it doesn't do postal codes outside the USA). It will also calculate distances between any two prefixes. I got my copy from the Olde Bailey BBS at 713-520-1569 or 713-520-9566. You can also buy a registered copy for $25 from the author at: PC Consultant PO Box 42086 Houston, TX 77242-2086 Paul Cook 206-881-7000 Proctor & Associates MCI Mail 399-1080 15050 NE 36th St. fax: 206-885-3282 Redmond, WA 98052-5378 3991080@mcimail.com ------------------------------ From: dannyb@panix.com (Daniel Burstein) Subject: Re: MCI Outage Date: 14 Jul 1993 01:24:49 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC In tad@ssc.com (Tad Cook) writes: > I have been getting All Trunks Busy, or sometimes no response at all, > when dialing the 800 number for MCI Mail. I tried making a few > regular toll calls via MCI, and get the same response. > Finally after many attempts at dialing 00 on my line that is served by > MCI, I reached an operator. I assumed there was a cable cut affecting > Seattle, but she said that the problem was network wide, probably > flood or weather related, and should be solved soon. This was about > 7:20 PM PDT Sunday night. This would drive me crazy; when the MCI Mail 800 number was down, chances were that it was an MCI phone network problem, so NONE of their 1-800 numbers would work, including the one to customer service/repair. So ... after a bit of screaming at them for their stupididy, I was able to get a "real" number for MCIMAIL. Afraid I don't have it at hand, but you should be able to get it from the "phones" listing for washingon dc. This brings up the very real problem of how to get through to a company when all you have is their "800" number. But that's a story for another day. Just as one quick answer, though. In NYC, at least, the phone book has a listing for a special NYTel assistance group specifically to check into 1-800 outages. dannyb@panix.com ------------------------------ From: system@garlic.sbs.com Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 21:45:59 EDT Subject: Re: MCI Outage tad@ssc.com (Tad Cook) writes: > I have been getting All Trunks Busy, or sometimes no response at all, > when dialing the 800 number for MCI Mail. I tried making a few > regular toll calls via MCI, and get the same response. > Finally after many attempts at dialing 00 on my line that is served by > MCI, I reached an operator. I assumed there was a cable cut affecting > Seattle, but she said that the problem was network wide, probably > flood or weather related, and should be solved soon. This was about > 7:20 PM PDT Sunday night. I find that kind of interesting. MCI called me to make their pitch last night (Hey, I signed up for the freebie time and also with the knowledge that AT&T will come back to me begging and offering me all sorts of goodies. :) I asked what their transmission medium was. I was shocked when the woman told me it was completely via microwave transmission. So, they must've had a switching software glitch, hiccup or bug. Tony Pelliccio, KD1NR, Control Op 441.750+, ARRL VE system @ garlic.sbs.com Soon W5YI VE ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 21:41 GMT From: Bruce Sullivan Subject: Re: MCI Outage tad@ssc.com (Tad Cook) writes: > I have been getting All Trunks Busy, or sometimes no response at all, > when dialing the 800 number for MCI Mail. I tried making a few > regular toll calls via MCI, and get the same response. > Finally after many attempts at dialing 00 on my line that is served b > MCI, I reached an operator. I assumed there was a cable cut affectin > Seattle, but she said that the problem was network wide, probably > flood or weather related, and should be solved soon. This was about > 7:20 PM PDT Sunday night. As I recall, MCI Mail's main processing center is in the midwest. I want to say Downer's Grove, IL. but can't find that on the crummy little road atlas that I have in my office here. Nonetheless, they ARE in the midwest somewhere, and it seems possible -- even likely -- that communications would be affected at some point. Virtually every circuit *I* have through the midwest went down at least once this weekend. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 10:52:22 -0600 From: rgt@spitfire.lanl.gov (Richard Thomsen) Subject: Re: Kerberos on Cellular Telephones Andrew R. Ghali wrote: > The abbreviated query/challenge system should go something like this: > Phone: "Hi, I'm NNN-NXX-XXXX, I'd like to make a call" > Cell: "Oh yeah, prove to me that you are NNN-NXX-XXXX. Here > is a session key encoded using your ESN, decode it, > encode the number you want to call with it and send > it back" > Phone: "OK, here is the number I want to call encoded with the > session key" > Cell: "Looks good, here's your call, encoded with the current > session key. Enjoy." It seems to me that this is not a very good challange system. The cell sends an encrypted message, and the phone could go offline and take as long as necessary to try different ESNs to break the code. Would it not be better if it were as follows? Phone: "Hi, I'd like to make a call, and here is my telephone number encrypted with my ESN." Cell: "Your telephone number decoded correctly, so the ESN you sent me was acceptable. Here is the session key encoded with your ESN. Decode it, encode the number you want to call with it, and send it back." Rest as above. It would seem that a two-way challange would be better than just sending an encrypted message to the caller. If the first message did not decode using the proper ESN, then the cell would not send anything. This weakness is also true of the Kerberos password system. Richard Thomsen Los Alamos National Laboratory rgt@lanl.gov In case you did not realize, I speak only for myself. ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #478 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa25570; 15 Jul 93 3:22 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA12208 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Thu, 15 Jul 1993 00:58:40 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA05500 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Thu, 15 Jul 1993 00:58:01 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 00:58:01 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307150558.AA05500@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #479 TELECOM Digest Thu, 15 Jul 93 00:58:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 479 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: 700 Number Information Wanted (Jon Edelson) Re: 700 Number Information Wanted (Steve Wood) Re: Dialing "1" First (Mark Brader) Re: Dialing "1" First (Mike King) Re: Dialing "1" First (John R. Levine) Re: More Thoughts About Western Union (Donald R. Newcomb) Re: US => Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit (Richard Cox) Re: New House Problems (Steve Forrette) Re: Audiovox CTX-3200M Programming Information Available (Henrik Rasmussen) Re: How to Get Coin Phone? (Timothy E. White) Re: CDMA Technology Texts (Sirbjit Birdi) Re: Phone Noises, Frequencies and Durations (Steve Forrette) Re: Gnocchi al Telefono (Steve Kaiser) Re: Only in Texas (Patrick Tufts) ---------------------- TELECOM Digest is an e-journal devoted mostly -- but not exclusively -- to discussions on voice telephony. The Digest is a not-for-profit public service published frequently by Patrick Townson Associates. PTA markets a no-surcharge telephone calling card and a no monthly fee 800 service. In addition, we are resellers of AT&T's Software Defined Network. For a detailed discussion of our services, write and ask for the file 'products'. The Digest is delivered at no charge by email to qualified subscribers on any electronic mail service connected to the Internet. To join the mail- ing list, write and tell us how you qualify: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu. All article submissions MUST be sent to our email address: telecom@eecs. nwu.edu -- NOT as replies to comp.dcom.telecom. Back issues and numerous other telephone-related files of interest are available from the Telecom Archives, using anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu. Login anonymous, then 'cd telecom-archives'. At the present time, the Digest is also ported to Usenet at the request of many readers there, where it is known as 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Use of the Digest does not require the use of our products and services. The two are separate. All articles are the responsibility of the individual authors. Organi- zations listed, if any, are for identification purposes only. The Digest is compilation-copyrighted, 1993. **DO NOT** cross-post articles between the Digest and other Usenet or alt newsgroups. Do not compile mailing lists from the net-addresses appearing herein. Send tithes and love offerings to PO Box 1570, Chicago, IL 60690. :) Phone: 312-465-2700. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: winnie@phoenix.princeton.edu (Jon Edelson) Subject: Re: 700 Number Information Wanted Organization: Princeton University Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 01:56:11 GMT Mark Christopher Macsurak asks about easy reach service, and Pat responds (in part): > [Moderator's Note: The '700 number program' you are referring to is > the AT&T Easy Reach service. AT&T is the only company offering the > service in quite the way they do. Because the 700 number space is > unique in the sense that all carriers get complete use of the entire > range of numbers, it is possible that two totally unrelated parties > could have the same 700-xxx-yyyy number, thus the requirement that the > caller fully qualify the number with the prepending of 10288 when > dialing unless the phone line is defaulted to AT&T as the long > distance carrier. I use the Easy Reach service, and it serves well for allowing my dad to locate me (previously he would leave messages at five or six places); if he can't get me via Easy Reach, then he knows that I am not reachable. The thing that most annoys me about the service is the requirement to dial zero. Telling somebody to dial 10288-1-700-xxx-yyyy isn't so bad, when one compares it to the current method which forces people to use the voice menus. If someone wants to call me on their dime, they have to dial 0-700 ... and then navigate the menus to say that they will pay. I always thought that that was what 1-nnn-xxx-yyyy was for. ------------------------------ From: Steve Wood Subject: Re: 700 Number Information Wanted Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 13:24:00 PDT Mark Macsurak (bigmac@leland.stanford.edu) writes: > Because I am moving around so much, I am thinking of getting a (700) > number which sounds basically like a permanent-call-forward. That way > I can tell my friends and not have to change business cards so often. > I haven't really seen any (700) numbers though. Do these exist? How > convenient are they? I'd like to hear from anyone who uses them. Also, > I heard if you have AT&T's 700 number, and a person must then dial > 10ATT0 before they can reach you (how are they supposed to know that). I've had an AT&T 700 number for several months. Like PAT I don't use it a lot but as an independent consultant it has proven a convenient way to give potential clients a sure way to reach me. The fact that you must use the AT&T network is definitely a flaw. You can ameliorate that problem somewhat by printing (10ATT0) on your business card as part of the phone number. Yes, the tariffs are high, but for me that's not a problem since anyone calling me is generally doing so from a business and I let them pay for it. It's very easy to forward the number anywhere you want to, even to most cellular numbers. And the cost is only $7.00/month. Another flaw is that AT&T requires this service to be tied to one permanant number for billing purposes, and signing up automatically causes that number to be switched to AT&T long distance service -- there may be a way around this but I doubt it. Steve Wood (steve.wood@mccaw.com) ------------------------------ From: msb@sq.com (Mark Brader) Subject: Re: Dialing "1" First Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 21:27:56 GMT > I can see that people from a 1-means-toll area being annoyed when > they have to pay toll for a call even if they didn't dial a leading 1. > But the reverse? What's the point of telling callers to hang up and > dial again, without the 1? The psychological assumption here is that people know what places they can call locally and what places they cannot; therefore, if they did this, they must have *misdialed the number*. For example, here in Toronto (area code 416), where use a leading 1-416 rather than plain 1 for long distance within the area code, 739 is a local exchange and 729 is long distance. If I know this, then it is not plausible that I would dial 1-416-739-6666 by mistake for 739-6666. More likely I really meant to dial 1-416-729-6666 or some other number that is long distance. So why trouble the person at 739-6666 with a call that must be a long number? In short, having only one way to dial a particular number provides a primitive form of error checking. Note: in giving this explanation (again), I am not claiming that this is necessarily the best dialing system for today's world; there are people who find it quite annoying, for good reason. I am answering the question as to what advantage it gives. Mark Brader, SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 13:39:24 EDT From: mking@fsd.com (Mike King) Subject: Re: Dialing "1" First In TELECOM Digest, V13 #461, jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) responded to my earlier post on this subject: >> Here in Maryland (C&P, 301), a leading 1 is required for a toll call, >> but if it is included on a non-toll call, the call goes through >> without any whining from the switch. [...] > Does it go through as a local call or over your primary carrier? I > often will dial 10xxx for a local call (for my own weird reasons) and > the call is billed to the long distance carrier. I didn't dial any 10xxx prefix; the call was NOT billed in any manner on my next phone bill. While MD does allow intra-LATA competition, C&P does not hand an intra-LATA call to any IXC unless specifically instructed via 10xxx. Since no billing was done, I conclude the call was treated as a local call; I believe C&P simply stripped off the superfluous portion of the number. >> behavior. Local calls *from* 202 to 301 or 703 do get denied if >> preceded by a 1, however. Maybe the congresscritters NEED unnecessary >> regulation in their lives? > Some areas (like Colorado, have areas which are localish; you dial > 1-xxx-xxxx to connect, but it is a metered service (local long > distance). Anything out of you LATA (?) requires a 1. They don't > have to tell you when the call will cost extra but they do ... In that case, I'd consider the Colorado dialing pattern to imply "dial 1 means extra charge, even if the charge is not the full toll rate." Dayton, OH, has some of those "reduced-toll" areas (I moved from there in Feb.), but I'm not aware of any in the DC and suburban area. Interestingly enough, the "reduced-toll" calls in the Dayton area do NOT require a leading 1; only full-rate toll calls require the 1. Mike King | +1 301-428-5384 | I don't speak for my Software Sourcerer | mking@fsd.com or | employer. My employer Fairchild Space | 73710.1430@compuserve.com | doesn't speak for me. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 00:44 EDT From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Subject: Re: Dialing "1" First Organization: I.E.C.C. > I'm dialing "900+[more stuff]" ... Really? Unless you have an astonishingly screwed up exchange, 00 gets you a long distance operator, and 011 is international. The worst that dialing 901+stuff will get you is an unanticipated conversation with someone in Tennesee. Like I said, whether one likes 1+ for toll is a purely religious issue. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl ------------------------------ From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) Subject: Re: More Thoughts About Western Union Date: 14 Jul 1993 18:37:46 GMT Organization: University of Southern Mississippi In article our Moderator wrote: > will return some day. They don't deliver telegrams any longer. They > called me and said to pick up email from any agent close to me, so I went > to the Devon-Western currency exchange. The woman there retrieved it > from email, printed it on the printer and handed it to me. The 'much OK, so here is a question I've wanted to ask. Suppose I'm out in the hinterlands without my laptop and need to send a short e-mail message to someone. I go in a little general store that is the local WU money agent. Would they be able to originate a message for delivery to an internet-type address? Would I be able to do this by calling the WU 800 number? Are there other fee-for-service outfits that could originate a message to anyone on the vast, interconnected e-mail network? Donald R. Newcomb University of Southern Mississippi dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu dnewcomb@falcon.st.usm.edu [Moderator's Note: You've given me a great idea for a business venture. From public ==> Internet/other email and in reverse. Anyone interested in helping me get this underway? I think it could be very profitable. Sort of a latter day resurrecton of WUTCO. Does anyone know how well MCI Mail and ATT Mail do on their papermail gateways? Does it make money for them? PAT] ------------------------------ From: mandarin@cix.compulink.co.uk (Richard Cox) Subject: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Reply-To: mandarin@cix.compulink.co.uk Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 23:19:33 +0000 PAT said: >> I have never heard of this before; that a number which requires thirteen >> digits to dial cannot be reached directly. We in the USA have had IDDD in >> many exchanges for twenty years, and in almost all exchanges for several >> years now. No one has yet raised this point??? PAT CCITT is very clear that until time T (1996-12-31), 12 digits is the limit. Which is fine -- if the telco allocates the numbering space (as in the UK, for example). But in the countries mentioned, especially Germany, there are DDI numbers *of variable length* that sit on the end of a telco-allocated prefix. The DDI user must have increased (some or all of) the extensions digit length without telling the telco that this has happened -- in order to get the prefix shortened and keep the number length to 12 digits (or less). There may be any of several reasons for this: the telco will charge more, the customer doesn't want to reprint stationery, the customer just didn't realise he had to, etc. Come 1996, the limit will change to 16 digits. johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) said: >> This is probably a company's PBX, where the digits after the XXX are >> decoded entirely in the PBX. I'd expect the main number to be +49 >> 6131 XXX 0. And the best way of getting the fax through is to call 01149 6131 XXX 0, and ask for extension 4555 >> In most places outside North America the length isn't really a problem >> because calls are routed incrementally and, except in the fanciest new >> electronic exchanges, the whole number is never buffered in one place. Ouch! Civilisation does not end at New York Harbour, you know! Networks all over the world are rapidly becoming digital, because of the cost-savings: and complete numbers are now analysed by the local switch before the SS7 call setup message can be sent. Number length IS critical. Richard D G Cox Mandarin Technology, Cardiff Business Park, Llanishen, CARDIFF, Wales CF4 5WF Voice: +44 222 747111 Fax: +44 222 711111 VoiceMail: +44 399 870101 E-mail: mandarin@cix.compulink.co.uk - PGP2.2 public key available on request ------------------------------ From: stevef@wrq.com (Steve Forrette) Subject: Re: New House Problems Date: 15 Jul 1993 01:37:31 GMT Organization: Walker Richer & Quinn, Inc., Seattle, WA In article cambler@cymbal.calpoly.edu (Chris Ambler -- Phish) writes: > The problem I'm having is that hangups don't seem to be recognized by > some of my equipment now! The answering machines don't recycle when > the user hangs up, but wait for five seconds of silence. A few of the > modems cannot detect when the remote site hangs up as well. The voice > mail isn't on line yet, but I'm dreading it. > Is this common on the outskirts of a town (where I am). Could it be a > lack of voltage or impedance or something like that at the end-of-the- > line where I am? It is quite possible that some sort of line concentrator is causing this. The AT&T SLC-96 is a popular unit, but handles this case correctly. The thing your equipment is looking for is the "CPC pulse." This is momentary interruption of loop current provided to the called party after the calling party disconnects. Most modern digital switches will provide this (including the 1AESS, 5ESS, and DMS-100), but sometimes something in between you and the switch will eat the CPC. Competitors to the SLC-96 are likely suspects. I am currently served off something called a "Discus." I have about a mile of copper between me and the Discus, then four miles of fiber to the 1A. The Discus inserts about a six to eight second delay in delivery of the CPC. When I had service previously where I was directly connected to a 1A, the CPC would come immediately. Now, it comes about six to eight seconds after a caller hangs up on me. I'm just assuming that my current 1A is operating the same as the other one, and that the Discus is responsible for the new delay, but I could be wrong on this point. I was talking with an engineer I know at US West about this issue a couple of years ago. His attitude was that the CPC pulse was not part of the basic service requirements, and that the telco had no obligation to provide it. If they choose to move you onto a concentrator which doesn't pass the CPC, that's too bad. He said that when they converted customers over to a concentrator that didn't support CPC, it generated a lot of calls to Repair Service, with people complaining that their answering macehines no longer operated correctly. His attitude was that the customer is better off setting their answering machine to always use silence dectection and never use CPC, even if you are currently getting CPC, so that in the event that you were switched to a concentrator that didn't pass it, that your machine would not just run forever. It is my impression that over the past few years, that the telco has realized that the CPC is used by a lot of answering machines, PBX's, and other things, and that it is important that the concentrators they buy support it. I hate to suggest this, but I must: Do you live in San Louis Obispo as your email address might imply? Doesn't GTE serve that area? Steve Forrette, stevef@wrq.com ------------------------------ From: Henrik.Rasmussen@lambada.oit.unc.edu (Henrik Rasmussen) Subject: Re: Audiovox CTX-3200M Programming Information Available Date: 15 Jul 1993 05:07:45 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service > This message is being sent to flush out other Audiovox cellular > telephone users; there are some features I don't yet know how to > activate, and would like to compare notes with others who may > have tried something similar. Of course, if someone has > authoritative information, that would be great too. I will gladly provide any info you need on Audiovox phones. Rik Rasmussen Audiovox Cellular Communications Corp. Raleigh, NC henrik.rasmussen@launchpad.unc.edu The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service. internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80 ------------------------------ From: cm538@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Timothy E White) Subject: Re: How to Get Coin Phone? Date: 15 Jul 1993 00:01:09 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) I just received a catalog from a company called "Hello Direct" that has a coin operated phone listed at $249. This is new -- not used. It is on page 21 of their fall catalog. They list their contact numbers as: 1-800-HI-HELLO. ------------------------------ From: dc92ssb@brunel.ac.uk (Sirbjit Birdi) Subject: Re: CDMA Technology Texts Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 16:28:21 GMT rickie@trickie.ualberta.ca wrote: > At the watering hole tonite, we were discussing the current TDMA and > CDMA technologies. We decided that better technical information on > the relatively new CDMA cellular technology would be an asset to > further our understanding. Would someone please recommend a good set > of reference texts that we could obtain to enlighten us? Try the following FTP site: ftp tandem.com Under the wireless/qualcomm directory. Serge ------------------------------ From: stevef@wrq.com (Steve Forrette) Subject: Re: Phone Noises, Frequencies and Durations Date: 14 Jul 1993 23:10:28 GMT Organization: Walker Richer & Quinn, Inc., Seattle, WA In article phantom@cs.umd.edu (Scott Perry) writes: > What I would like is the frequency and durations necessary to > reproduce various things like busy signals, doo-doo-doo "We're sorry > ..." messages, etc. Here are the call progress tone standards for North America: Ringback: two seconds of 440Hz and 480Hz followed by four seconds of silence; Busy: 500ms of 480Hz and 620Hz followed by 500ms of silence; Reorder: 250ms of 480Hz and 620Hz followed by 250ms of silence; Dialtone: continuous 350Hz and 440Hz; For the standard calling card "bong," there is a particular Bellcore standard. I used something that was easiest for me to implement, and it sounds quite close to the real thing. I use 60ms of "#" tone (941Hz and 1477Hz), followed by a decaying dialtone sound that lasts one second, with the amplitude at full volume at the beginning of the second, ramping down linearly to 0 amplitude at the end of the second. Steve Forrette, stevef@wrq.com ------------------------------ From: skaiser@eskimo.com (Steve Kaiser) Subject: Re: Gnocchi al Telefono Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 01:33:02 GMT In article gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes: > While dining at a nearby Italian eatery, I noticed a rather peculiar > pasta dish on the menu: > Gnocchi al Telefono > which I proceeded to order. It was quite good Gnocchi, but I'm > curious as to what exactly the origin of the name is. > I was hoping it would be garnished with a Motorola cellular, or at > least a trusty WECO 2500 which I would be entitled to take home. > Alas, only parsley and a little basil. Here in Seattle, there is a deli that offers "AT&T pasta salad"-- with long green noodles that look just like handset cords. Steve Kaiser Kaiser Data skaiser@eskimo.com 13533 Northshire Rd NW +1 206 361-1515 Seattle, WA 98177-4033 ------------------------------ From: zippy@cs.brandeis.edu (Patrick Tufts) Subject: Re: Only in Texas Organization: Brandeis University Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 19:28:54 GMT Danbury Hospital in Danbury, Conn, had two great surgeon/specialty pairs in their listing of on-call staff back in the 80s: Dr. Masher - Neurosurgeon Dr. Ripper - Urologist Pat ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #479 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa28508; 15 Jul 93 5:48 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA11890 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Thu, 15 Jul 1993 02:54:15 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA08649 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Thu, 15 Jul 1993 02:53:12 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 02:53:12 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307150753.AA08649@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #480 TELECOM Digest Thu, 15 Jul 93 02:52:45 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 480 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: ISDN/SS7 Test Equipment Needed (David Roe) Re: Call Forward to a 1-800 Number (Mike King) Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year (Dan J. Declerck) Re: More Thoughts About Western Union (Cliff Stoll) Re: Information on Fax Broadcast Services (Kenneth Leung) Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 (Jack Winslade) Re: BBS <-> UseNet (Jim Wenzel) Re: How Can One Dial a US 1-800 Number From ? (Jan Hinnerk Haul) Re: Who Was Randy Barrow? (Carl Moore) Re: Beep at Start of International Calls (George Zmijewski) Re: Access to Toll Records (Paul Houle) Re: Ring Generator Schematic Needed (Michael Pigg) Re: 700 Number Information Wanted (John J. Butz) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roe@sbctri.sbc.com (David Roe) Subject: Re: ISDN/SS7 Test Equipment Needed Date: 14 Jul 1993 21:43:14 GMT Organization: Southwestern Bell Technology Resources In article , helliott@digi.lonestar.org (Holly Elliott) wrote: > I am looking for test equipment for ISDN and SS7, preferably in the > same unit. We currently are using a Tekelec 32, but it will not meet > our needs. What we want is a unit (PC card?) that will allow us to > build ISDN/SS7 messages in software, and the recieved messages must > also be software readable. The test unit must handle Primary Rate > ISDN, Layer 3 ISDN and Layer 4 SS7, and ISDN Code Set 6. > If you have any leads on who I should contact, please respond via > e-mail, as I do not regularly read this group. Holly, We've used the Tekelec MGTS (Message Generator/ Traffic Simulator) for a while now- we've got two in the lab that we used to test SS7/ISUP ISDN User Part of SS7. A person within DSC that has been in our facility is Lonny Taylor at Plano, you might give him a call. Tekelec's customer service number is 919-460-5594 at Raleigh NC, if you have questions regarding the operation of Tekelec equipment. Give me a call or email and I'll give you the name of our rep. David M. Roe, Director roe@sbctri.sbc.com Southwestern Bell Technology Resources ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY LABORATORY 1010 Pine St. Room 635 St. Louis, MO 63101-3099 PHONE: 314-235-7200 FAX: 314-235-5797 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 18:12:56 EDT From: mking@fsd.com (Mike King) Subject: Re: Call Forward to a 1-800 Number In TELECOM Digest, V13 #466, pace@usace.mil (Joe Pace) wrote: > I tried calling 800-235-1414 from our Intecom PBX and rather than > reporting my phone number it gave the POTS number of the Pacific Bell > circuit the call went out on. Do some PBX's forward the internal > numbers to phone company switches, or is this not possible using > conventional phone lines? Correct -- this is not possible using conventional phone lines. Your internal PBX extension number is irrelevant to the phone company and its switch. After you dial a number that the PBX determines needs to go over the switched network, your PBX seizes a trunk and simply 'dials' the number. Depending on how PacBell identifies the circuits in the ANI information, you can get one of two identifications: either the main billing number for the circuit, or the actual number assigned to the physical trunk on which the call was placed. Different phone companies do things differently. Even if you have DID service, the above is true for outgoing calls. A PBX connected to a telephone company switch using an ISDN line *may* pass the calling number information, however. Mike King | +1 301-428-5384 | I don't speak for my Software Sourcerer | mking@fsd.com or | employer. My employer Fairchild Space | 73710.1430@compuserve.com | doesn't speak for me. ------------------------------ From: declrckd@rtsg.mot.com (Dan J. Declerck) Subject: Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 00:05:07 GMT In article lmcrajy@noah.ericsson.se writes: > Historically, when 25% of the subscribers in Holland refused to pay > their bills an authentication scheme was introduced, all the mobiles > were re-called and upgraded with the necessary changes and fraud was > reduced to a manageable level. > So, while Steve's concerns are understandable I would agree with the > Moderator that something could be worked out between the carriers and > the mobile manufacturers. I have heard figures nearing a billion in > telecom fraud. > Moreover, most mobile manufacturers have already developed dual mode > phones which has authentication schemes. So, upgrading the analog > phones should not cost that much more as it would be cheaper to reuse > the technology. Hmmm spoken by a true Infrastucture manufacturer (grin). Mobile and portable phones use surface mount technologies, and replacing the EPROMS would probably cost more than the phone is worth. Even if this were possible, it would take YEARS to get all the old ones off the street. The best possible solution would be just as cost effective, and would give everybody the best of both worlds. Migrate to a new digital standard. Heck even Europe has gone digital (GSM). My opinions do not represent those of my employer, Motorola, and of any of its subsidiaries ... (sorry, gotta do this). Dan DeClerck EMAIL: declrckd@rtsg.mot.com Motorola Cellular APD Phone: (708) 632-4596 ------------------------------ From: stoll@ocf.berkeley.edu (Cliff Stoll) Subject: Re: More Thoughts About Western Union Date: 15 Jul 1993 02:27:28 GMT Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility It's June, 1966. I'm a junior in high school, looking for a summer job in Buffalo. Well, I know Morse Code, from ham radio. Why not apply to Western Union? I go to the counter -- it's a big building in downtown, with a bright yellow Western Union sign on the front. The brass plate on the doorway sez, "We Never Close". "Mister, do you have any jobs? I know Morse Code ..." Well, I got a job. Bicycle messenger, pedalling the streets of the city. Business days, delivering telegrams to offices. I'd have seven or nine minutes to drop off the envelope and then get back fast. Occasional bizarre things: Once I had to sing "Happy Birthday" when I deliverd a Candygram. Weekends were wretched: delivering eviction notices to families living in the projects. Kids would throw stones at me; adults would slam their doors. And then there were the death notices: informing a family that their son had died in Viet Nam. This much: the whole summer, I earned less than $2 in tips. Someone won a lottery in New Hampshire and could only be notified by telegraph ... the woman didn't so much as say thank you. Did they ever use my Morse code talents? Naw -- they had ASR-29 teleyptes. They wouldn't let me even play with 'em. When I told them about the cool computer at my high school (an IBM 1620), the manager treated it like a joke. He said that the future of the company was to eliminate bicycle messengers and begin using motorcycles and cars to reach the suburbs. I'm sad to see the slow demise of Western Union, but I'm not surprised. They've made serious mistakes throughout their history -- turning down the telephone, failing to latch onto electronic mail or computers. Cheers! Cliff Stoll [Moderator's Note: Do you remember how noisy the public offices were when several of the teletype machines would all be engaged at the same time? The clack-clack-clack of several machines at one time ... and then maybe a few seconds or a minute of silence because none of the machines were going, and the whirring noise when the motor on one of the teletypes would turn on to start receiving another telegram? Bigger public telegraph offices like the one in Chicago had a dozen or so teletype machines; there were always at least one or two clacking away it seemed except in the wee hours of the morning, and sometimes all of them would be chattering and banging out their messages. One, two or three men back there alternatly typing messages into the machines and walking up to a machine when the bell rang to pull some of the continuous feed yellow paper out with a message on it, rip it off the machine and give it to the woman up front who waited on the customers. Many people expecting telegrams would come to the public office to wait for them. The man in back would hand them to her, she'd glance at it, see people in the waiting room looking at her expectantly and in her nasal voice she'd call out "Is there a Johnson waiting here for a message?" ... if not, it would be sent out with the delivery person a few minutes later. If Johnson came to the counter, she'd record it in the ledger book, have the customer sign and give them the message. The public office had lecterns where the customer would stand to write out a message he wanted sent with supplies -- including fountain pens and 'telegraph blanks' provided for his use. After composing the message you wanted sent you took it to the lady at the counter. She would go over it with you and print the words which were illegible so the guys in back could read it. Then she'd count the words, ask you if you wanted it to go 'day rate' or 'night rate' (the rate was cheaper if you let them hold it and transmit it during off-peak slower times), if anyone could accept it or if it was restricted delivery to the person named, and if it was sent paid or sent collect. She'd write all this in the ledger book, take your money and give the message to the guy working the machines in back of her. Since the counter clerk also took the messages phoned in (which could be charged to your telephone bill) the phone(s) rang off the hook constantly with the clerk alternating between phone calls and customers at the walk up counter. Overnight the counter clerk was usually the telegrapher as well. All WU public offices had the phone number -4321. In every office, three or four of the 'telegraph clocks' with the Western Union / Naval Observatory Time logo on them and the symbol for electricity; always one in the front window for passers by to see plus two or three in the office itself. In the early 1960's the telegraph- ers got $2.00 per hour and the clerks got $1.50 per hour. Come to think of it, when I worked in the U of C phone room in the late 1950's I got $65 per week which was considered quite good for a telephone operator. PAT] ------------------------------ From: kleung@netcom.com (Kenneth Leung) Subject: Re: Information on Fax Broadcast Services Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 03:36:32 GMT In article andys@internet.sbi.com (Andy Sherman) writes: > On 15 Jun 93 02:52:34 GMT, Pat_Stephenson@transarc.com said: >> I am looking for information on availability and pricing of commercial >> fax broadcast services. The basic need is to get a 25 page document >> to several hundred fax numbers once a week, occasionally more often. >> It should arrive within a few hours of being sent (ie one dial-out fax >> line probably won't cut it :-)). > Talk to the people at AT&T EasyLink (the merger of Western Union and > AT&T Mail). They have an enhanced fax service that will do what you > need. You can send it from your AT&T Mail account, too. You can also check with Sprint & MCI, they also provide Fax broadcast services, Generally they sell these services with their business long distances services (at least that is how I know about them). But I am sure they will work out a deal ... Kenneth C.P. Leung 1303 Walnut Hill Ln. 2nd Floor, Irving, TX 75038 Information Specialist Voice : 214-550-8371 Fax : 214-550-9269 Innovax Concepts Corp. AURORA Supermarket Application Innovax Integration Partner Program ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 14:51:46 CST From: Jack.Winslade@axolotl.omahug.org (Jack Winslade) Subject: Re: Cox and BellSouth Want to Use 511 Reply-To: jack.winslade%drbbs@axolotl.omahug.org Organization: DRBBS Technical BBS, Omaha In a message dated 06-JUL-93, Brendan B. Boerner writes: > 111 - can phone equipment distinquish between this and a L.D. call? > 211 - ? > 311 - ? > 411 - Directory assistance > 511 - Proposed information services > 611 - ? > 711 - ? > 811 - ? > 911 - Emergency services From what I have personally seen, these have been used in the past and may still be in some cases. 211 - Pre dial-0 long distance 311 - Line identification (like 958) in some areas 411 - DA 511 - Test board at the local CO in some areas 611 - Repair service 811 - Ma Bell Business Office 911 - Emergency Good day JSW (1:285/666.0) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 17:06:00 -0500 From: jim.wenzel@grapevine.lrk.ar.us (Jim Wenzel) Subject: Re: BBS <-> UseNet Reply-To: jim.wenzel@grapevine.lrk.ar.us (Jim Wenzel) Organization: The GrapeVine BBS *** N. Little Rock, AR *** (501) 753-8121 > I have a friend who is setting up a BBS system (for the Commonwealth > of PA). He would like the BBS to be able to pass messages to/from > the Internet. Fidonet came to mind. Could someone point me towards > information on obtaining Fidonet access, etc. Does anyone have any > other suggestions. If he can get an Internet/UseNet feed he can save himself a lot of headaches by staying away from FidoNet. We use PCBoard here with Ed Hoppers UUPCB program to import UseNet directly into the PCB message bases. Email me for more info. The GrapeVine / Ferret Face BBS (501) 753-8121 PGP Distribution Site, UseNet, RIME, ThrobNet, MediaNet, U'niNet, ForthNet RecoveryNet, MetroLink. Putting Communications back in Telecommunication ------------------------------ From: jan@wedel.hanse.de (Jan Hinnerk Haul) Subject: Re: How Can One Dial a US 1-800 Number From ? Organization: None - the genius overlooks the chaos Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 18:05:25 GMT > [Moderator's Note: Please tell your friend that he can call USA 800 > numbers *if the owner of the number wants to be called from Canada* by > simply dialing the number in the usual way. If the call does not go > through, then the USA subscriber *does not want* to pay for calls from > Canadians. OK so far. > Certain carriers allow you to call the USA on your nickle, > *then* continue on the USA side to an 800 number. But you must pay to > get to the USA unless the owner of the 800 number has agreed to accept > calls from international points. PAT] Ok. Now assume I am NOT in Canada, but somebody in his infinite wisdom has advertised an 800 number only. I would be willing to pay for the call, but I have really a need to call that company ... Is there amy way? The only way I know (and I found out when I was in a really bad pressure to get some data transmission working again, so I *had* to call the 24 hour help desk of the network carrier ... guess what? 800 number only ... and their German subsidiary does not work on weekends, neither they have an answering machine giving the *real* mumber behind that 800 number or whatever). Call an AT&T operator (using USA Direct or whatever) and let him set up the call. However, you need am AT&T phone card -- which is not an everyday item here, as you may assume. With the Moderator's new service, this should be easy, of course. What other phone cards are available for Non-Americans? The AT&T card I used was bundled with the Diners' Club credit card of a colleague of mine (the only other one in the office on that Saturday -- we were *really* lucky that day!) BTW, the nework provider was GEISCO (General Electric Information Services) which we use for EDI file transfers to seaports describing where to put containers on a ship. Their US help desk was really help- ful, and through a lot of conference calling we found out that some node of their network was under service. My Veep made enough of a stink of it so that nowadays they (German branch who were generally good at sales only) call me in advance. Regards, Jan H. Haul Tel. +49 40 - 890 57 57 Disc.: Not even *my* Hamburg, Germany Fax +49 40 - 890 51 57 opinion ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 9:58:19 EDT From: Carl Moore Subject: Re: Who Was Randy Barrow? As I recall, the spelling was Borow, not Barrow. Please check the archives for the correct spelling. ------------------------------ From: mzmijews@mgzcs.demon.co.uk (George Zmijewski) Path: mgzcs.demon.co.uk!mzmijews Subject: Re: Beep at Start of International Calls Organization: MGZ Computer Services Reply-To: mzmijews@mgzcs.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 18:39:26 +0000 In article r.lightwood@trl.oz.au writes: > I have noticed this beep whenever dialing international calls from > here in Australia. Does this beep always occur in other countries > too? In UK you can get beep when you use Mercury (alternative carrier) -- I used to have that for several years but then it disapeared and nobody could tell me why. This beep can be still heard on calls oryginating in other parts of UK. The only rule I found here is that calls with beep are becoming extinct. BTW the beep seems to be coming from the oryginating switch. George Zmijewski ------------------------------ From: Paul.Houle@leotech.MV.COM (Paul Houle) Reply-To: houle@leotech.MV.COM Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 00:07:00 Subject: Re: Access to Toll Records Our most excellent and infamous Moderator notes: > For the fifty or hundred dollar bribe a clerk might get for > giving out a non-pub number for example, the risks are just > too great they will be caught. $50-$100 for a non-published number? Gee, your friends at the Telco are really ripping you off. $10-$20 is more like it, at least in these parts. I agree that telephone companies are pretty tough when they catch people leaking this kind of information, but from what I've seen, there seem to be an endless supply of Telco people who are willing to sell information. And no, I'm not in the market for buying non-published numbers and call-detail records, but I can assure you that the private detective companies that are listed in your local yellow pages are, and use this kind of information routinely in marital and other investigations. Origin: NETIS (603)432-2517/432-0922 (HST/V32) (1:132/189) ------------------------------ From: piggmw2@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Michael Pigg) Subject: Re: Ring Generator Schematic Needed Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 3:37:11 EST > I purchased the recently cited (V13 #V458) issue of Electronics Now!, > hoping to find a ring generator circuit in the phone line simulator. > Alas, the ring generator module depicted is a 'black box' not > documented in the article. > I'm looking for some circuit(s) that can perform the following > functions (this is essentially a simplified line card for a PBX or > telco switch): > The goal of this is to build a mini-PBX/intercom that is controlled by > an old PC with some audio and digital I/O boards that I have sitting > around. Since I'm trying to do this on the cheap, I'll happily settle > for circuits with functional limitations, such as only driving one > Ringer (REN 1.0A). I'm part of a group working on a similar project here at Purdue University for our senior design. We're using an 8051 embedded controller, though. To the point, it sounds like you need the station line interface circuitry (SLIC) device like we used in our system. We used a hybrid device from Mitel, the MH88612. This is a 20 pin SIP job that takes care of all of the functions you described, and uses only a few external components. Our experinece in breadboarding (the PCB's are currently being made) is that it works quite well. I don't know what you define as cheap, but these devices cost us $15 apiece for 8 of them. If it seems expensive (it was biggest expense in our system), remember that it is integrating a lot of fuctionality on a SIP for you. One little snag is that we had a hard time getting these devices. If you're intersted in further info on the Mitel chip and/or my experineces with it, please e-mail me directly. Hope this helped! Michael Pigg Purdue University piggmw2@sage.cc.purdue.edu ------------------------------ From: John.J.Butz@att.com Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 08:45:48 EDT Subject: Re: 700 Number Information Wanted Mark, You can order an EasyReach number by dialing 1-800-982-8480. This is the EasyReach sales and service number. One thing that Pat failed to mention in his Moderator's Note is that since the EasyReach service is targeted at the "on the move" market, it will have its feature set enhanced over time to meet the needs of this class of users. I wish I tell you about how the service will grow, but I like my job too much! J Butz ER700 Sys Eng jbutz@hogpa.att.com AT&T - CCS ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #480 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa29937; 16 Jul 93 19:20 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA26875 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Fri, 16 Jul 1993 17:02:13 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA08891 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Fri, 16 Jul 1993 17:01:27 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 17:01:27 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307162201.AA08891@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #481 TELECOM Digest Fri, 16 Jul 93 17:01:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 481 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Flooding in Iowa (Brian D. McMahon) Chicago Area Man Charged in Computer Porn Transmission (TELECOM Moderator) Internetworking and Connectivity: How Would You Do It? (Gerry George) Painful Report on the Nightly News (Jack Decker) TIA Publishes IS-95 (CDMA) (Ron Dippold) ADSL Hitched to ISDN: The Happy Couple? (Tyson Macaulay) AT&T Systimax PDS (daruvala@shakti.ncst.ernet.in) Information Wanted on Encrypted Cordless Phones? (Richard Fall) Bell Atlantic CD-ROM Yellow Pages in Virginia (Monty Solomon) Voice Mail Jail Story Drom the New York Times (Andrew Marc Greene) Is This AT&T From H*** Week? (Syd Weinstein) ---------------------- TELECOM Digest is an e-journal devoted mostly -- but not exclusively -- to discussions on voice telephony. The Digest is a not-for-profit public service published frequently by Patrick Townson Associates. PTA markets a no-surcharge telephone calling card and a no monthly fee 800 service. In addition, we are resellers of AT&T's Software Defined Network. For a detailed discussion of our services, write and ask for the file 'products'. The Digest is delivered at no charge by email to qualified subscribers on any electronic mail service connected to the Internet. To join the mail- ing list, write and tell us how you qualify: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu. All article submissions MUST be sent to our email address: telecom@eecs. nwu.edu -- NOT as replies to comp.dcom.telecom. Back issues and numerous other telephone-related files of interest are available from the Telecom Archives, using anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu. Login anonymous, then 'cd telecom-archives'. At the present time, the Digest is also ported to Usenet at the request of many readers there, where it is known as 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Use of the Digest does not require the use of our products and services. The two are separate. All articles are the responsibility of the individual authors. Organi- zations listed, if any, are for identification purposes only. The Digest is compilation-copyrighted, 1993. **DO NOT** cross-post articles between the Digest and other Usenet or alt newsgroups. Do not compile mailing lists from the net-addresses appearing herein. Send tithes and love offerings to PO Box 1570, Chicago, IL 60690. :) Phone: 312-465-2700. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 09:32:08 -0500 (cdt) From: Brian D McMahon Subject: Flooding in Iowa I haven't seen any reports on telecom aspects of the "Flood of '93" yet, but then again, we were off the air for several days (see below), so I might have missed them. Here's what we saw: On Friday, campus phones could not reach 800 numbers for several hours. The reported cause was a fiber washout, and service was restored by the middle of the afternoon. On Saturday, things started to go completely nuts. When I checked our Internet link (a US West 56K line to Iowa State University in Ames) that afternoon, packet loss ranged from 20 to 100 percent. US West reported a major fiber washout between Ames and Des Moines, where the worst of the weekend's flooding was shaping up. They hoped to be back on the air that evening. Optimists. The line was still dead on Sunday. Given the news from the central part of the state, we didn't bother to call anyone; we figured they were busy. On Monday, still nada. The US West testing center called me that Morning to follow up. Apparently, the Ames break had been spliced. Now, the trouble was in Des Moines, where much of downtown was without power. (Backup generators don't work too well underwater, I guess.) Also on Monday, I saw a report that the MIDnet ENSS (the connection between our regional network and the rest of the Internet) in Lincoln, Neb. was out, for reasons unknown. Later we learned that MIDnet's T3, most of their T1, Iowa 56K, and voice service for U. Nebraska all ran through a US West switching center in Pleasant Hill, a suburb of, yes, Des Moines. Pleasant Hill was NOT flooded, but apparently there had been some kind of massive cut, possibly as US West tried to recover from the rest of the mess. This affected not just Iowa, but all the way down to Oklahoma. Tuesday, still dead. The very nice, VERY tired-sounding tech in the testing center said they had a break in the Colfax-Newton area, no estimate on time to fix. Service came back some time around 23:00, judging from the masses of accumulated e-mail waiting for me the next day. The US West folks deserve a lot of credit. They ALWAYS got back to us promptly, with the best information they had at the time. Very impressive. Meanwhile, our old-fashioned, low-tech BITNET connection, using a bisynch 9600bps line and based on an IBM networking protocol so old the paradigm for information transfer is the card punch, stayed up for most of the time our Internet connection was down. That's how I first learned of the MIDnet outage, in fact. And more rain is on the way. Brian McMahon Postmaster / Acad. Software Support Grinnell College Computer Services Grinnell, Iowa 50112 USA Voice: +1 515 269 4901 Fax: +1 515 269 4936 [Moderator's Note: The crisis in Iowa, and particularly in Des Moines is unprecedented. I don't think there have ever been floods this severe in the USA before, at least not in that part of the country. Help is needed deparately, and readers are encouraged to contact their local offices of the Red Cross or other relief agencies to inquire what assistance is needed. Des Moines has been without a water supply or sewer service all this week, and it is expected to be a month before the water is safe for drinking. Please write us again with updates as you are able. :( PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 16:27:05 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Subject: Chicago Area Man Charged in Computer Porn Transmission A man in the Chicago suburb of Des Plaines, IL accused of transmitting X-rated pictures to a 12-year-old boy via his computer bulletin board system was charged Wednesday with distribution of obscene materials to a minor, officials have stated. Raymond F. Netupski, 30, of 10106 Holly Lane, Des Plaines, IL also faces charges of obscenity and possession of marijuana which was found in his home during the raid conducted at his home earlier this week. In addition, he faces charges of copyright infringement for distributing photographs (or would you say pornographs!) belonging to Playboy Enterprises, according to a spokesperson for the Cook County (Illinois) State's Attorney's office. "This type of crime -- distributing obscene materials to children -- has the potential to grow due to the increased use of personal computers," said Cook County State's Attorney Jack O'Malley in an interview. "This indictment is intended to serve as an example that law enforcement will not be outdated by high-tech crime." According to the obscenity portion of the complaint, the boy told his mother that he had been connected to the BBS and and downloaded files depicting people engaged in various sexual acts. His mother then notified the police. Police and prosecutors allege that Mr. Netupski knowingly provided the obscene material to anyone calling his BBS, even those who said they were minors. If readers are interested in contacting Mr. Netupski to offer counsel or assist in his defense they may contact him at the above address or by telephone at 708-827-7443. ------------------------------ From: ggeorge@bu.edu (Gerry George) Subject: Internetworking and Connectivity: How Would You Do It? Date: 16 Jul 1993 22:18:21 GMT Organization: Boston University Reply-To: ggeorge@acs.bu.edu I am carrying out a feasibility study on providing telecommunications services between a company's head office and subsidiary offices. Since I'm new to this, I figured that I would consult the telecom gods -- since you guys work daily on those issues and have much more experience than I could ever hope to gain within the available time frame. The necessary details are as follows: Head Office located in the US. Sub. offices located off-shore (ex. Caribbean area/Latin America). Need data, video, fax, & voice between HO & subsidiary head office. Data: includes e-mail and files; Voice: occasional call daily between offices; Video: average up to five hour/month, (usually) one hour per call. Between branches, need data and e-mail access (possibly remote LAN access), voice (telephone) and fax. All communication between branches and HO (in US) could be routed through Sub. H.O. My initial *guess* goes like this: H.O to Sub. H.O. Use some high bandwidth, yet cost effective link (VSAT vs leased or packet switched line). This would provide for communications without incurring additional costs based on quantity of usage. Between branch offices Most of the islands are line-of-sight (at least) with their closest neighbour. Therefore, use microwave between each (of four) island(s) to establish some sort of continuous link, hopefully going full circle (if possible) as opposed to a "bus" with the Sub. H.O. providing the connection to main H.O. in the US. Q1. Can I get voice/data/fax integrated in such a link -- ala a leased line (can this simulate a leased line)? What equipment will be required? Q2. Can a network link (ex. ethernet) run reliably over such a setup? Provide a backup link via packet radio (slow, but since only used in case of disruption, might be reasonable). Remote LAN access Salespeople with Laptops - access LAN through dialup lines to place orders and/or update files. Voice: how do we keep in touch with the sales people? Celular may not be readily available all over. My major contention is providing the link between H.O. and sub. H.O Can anyone suggess a more cost-effective means of having the two sites communicate? Should I use different vendors(video/data/voice) for each service? (most likely will cost more). How about the branch offices -- is it feasible to have the sub-nets linked via microwave? Apart from rain, what other problems can/should I anticipate? Backup/redundant network link -- should I bother? Would I need it or can I provide redundancy much easier and cheaper? Am I crazy :) Let me know how anyone has approached any similar problem. I will summarize to this forum when all replies have been consolidated and (possibly) evaluated. I will not eliminate ideas simply due to high cost, but I nould like to select options based on robustness and *value*, not just low cost. Vendor names will also be appreciated. Gerry George School of Management, Boston Univ. Internet: ggeorge@acs.bu.edu HomeNet: ggeorge@jacquot.ci.net Compu$erve: 72607.2560@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 02:40:10 EDT From: ao944@yfn.ysu.edu (Jack Decker) Subject: Painful Report on the Nightly News Did anyone else see the report a couple of nights ago on the nightly televised news (I believe it was on CBS, but may have been ABC) on the flood damage along the Mississippi, where a front-end loader was being used to scoop up telephone sets (looked like old "Genuine Bell" stuff) that supposedly had been damaged by the flood and deposit them in a dumpster? I wanted to cry out "NO!!!" because after all, other than being waterlogged, those sets could probably have been dried out and salvaged, or at least parted out for use in rebuilding other 500/2500 series phones. It would seem to me that if anyone is in the telephone refurbishing business, they might do well to run some ads in the Des Moines/Mississ- ippi valley area offering to "recycle" damaged telephone sets, in order to keep them out of landfills. Offer to pick them up, or place deposit boxes at certain convenient locations. Chances are that for the price of a few ads and the cost of pickup, you could get enough spare parts to keep you in business for a long time. Of course, you might wind up having to throw out a lot of "cheapie chirpers", but you might also pick up some real gems. (Which reminds me ... does anyone know where you can buy the plastic shell for a touch-tone Princess-type phone? You may recall the Princess ["It's Little, It's Lovely, It Lights"] was a true work of art before the dial-in-handset phones came along. I have the guts for, of all things, a modular Princess touch-tone phone [it must have been retrofitted for modular somewhere along the line] but no plastic case. It would be interesting to get this going again. And mark my words, in about ten or twenty years you'll probably start seeing Princess phone reproductions on the market, just as you now see cheapo imported 300-set reproductions with round pushbuttions where the dial holes used to be!) Jack Decker | ao944@yfn.ysu.edu or ac388@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu ------------------------------ From: rdippold@qualcomm.com (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold) Subject: TIA Publishes IS-95 (CDMA) Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 19:34:48 GMT Press release from TIA (Telecommunications Industry Association) went out at 8:05 EDT, 7/16/93. The TIA is publishing IS-95, which is the new CDMA industry standard for digital cellular telephone systems (along with TDMA). Those of you familiar with what was happening may have known it as TR-45.5, which was the subcommittee working on it. Backing off the officialese, this means that manufacturers now have an official industry standard to work from without the fear that, say, someone will change the encoder specifications out from under them. >From the release: /CONTACT: Debra Colbert of the Telecommunications Industry Association, 202-457-4935/ Plus Alex Brown and Motorola said good things about CDMA recently - this must be our week! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 11:08:38 EDT From: Tyson=Macaulay%DTP%DGCP=HQ=ADMSR@dgbt.banyan.doc.ca Subject: ADSL Hitched to ISDN: The Happy Couple? I have found the recent discussion on the future of ISDN to be particularly interesting because of the work I am doing on network development for the government of Canada. (Which is currently is reorg, so I cant explain which department without undue confusion) A major problem with the development of networks is *access*. A public good/ or a piece of the public infrastructure, must be accessible to the public is a reasonably effective manner. But how do you do this? One answer (skipping over many concerns in between) is to take POTS lines (which have a virtually universal penetration in Canada, and the US)and put ISDN on them. Thus making it possible for people to tie into a dial up network access point (Freenet, University Site) and transfer large amounts of data quickly and effectively; In fact, with this type of capacity you could almost say that the NAP become the central office.(?) However, even multiplexed, BRI ISDN will provide, what, 144Kbps? Good enough for data transfer, but not nearly good enough for many of the multi- media applications that will be the truly useful items on the net. I do not refer to movies and such crap, but rather interactive educational devices, or commercial product demonstrations. (For the American readers, the network development Business Plan for the developing Canadian backbone - Canadian Network for the Advancement of Research, Industry and Education, or CANARIE - has much more commercial emphasis than the NSFnet. This business plan is available by anonymous ftp at unbmvs1.csd.unb.ca /pub/net/canarie). Now to the point. I have heard from a manager at Northern Telecom that they are flirting with the idea of marrying ISDN to ADSL (Asymmetrical Digital Subscriber Loop), thus retaining the signalling standard that has been so pain-stakingly developed for ISDN, but vastly increasing the transport capacity. ADSL-1 can provide 1.544 Mbps over unshielded twisted pair (UTP), while ADSL-2 will move above 3 Mbps and ADSL-3 can jam up to 6 Mbps over UTP. Now we are talking a good base for multimedia applications to the home! Now we are talking a type of access that will make networks count to citizens in the future. Comments please? Must we rehash the discussion about affordability of equipment, or tariffs? Tyson Macaulay e-mail: tyson@debra.dgbt.doc.ca tmacaula@ccs.carleton.ca Communications Canada 7th Floor, Journal Tower North 300 Slater Street Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0C8 ------------------------------ From: Delsys Subject: AT&T Systimax PDS Organization: National Centre for Software Technology, India Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 06:22:24 GMT Can anyone tell me of alternatives/competitors to AT&T's Systimax premises distribution systems? ------------------------------ From: adobe!rfall@uunet.UU.NET (Richard Fall) Subject: Information Wanted on Encrypted Cordless Phones Organization: Adobe Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 23:15:06 GMT I am interested in getting a cordless phone in my house but I am concerned about privacy of my conversations, given the recent court decisions in this area, and the ease with which such transmissions can be intercepted. Is anyone aware of cordless phones that either: o Provide encryption of some type between the handset and base unit, or o That use infrared communication between the handset and based unit to limit the coverage area? It seems to me that either of these capabilities would solve, or mostly solve, the privacy problem. Richard Fall | Voice: (415) 962-4889 | Adobe Systems Incorporated | Fax : (415) 390-9894 | P.O. Box 7900 |-----------------------------------| 1585 Charleston Road | Internet: rfall@mv.us.adobe.com | Mountain View, CA 94039-7900 | UUCP: ..!decwrl!adobe!rfall | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 09:07:33 -0400 From: Monty Solomon Subject: Bell Atlantic CD-ROM Yellow Pages in Virginia Passed along for consideration. From: ecconnor@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Edward C Connors) Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom Subject: Bell Atlantic CD-ROM Yellow Pages in Virginia Date: 5 Jul 1993 11:15:24 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University What CD-ROM hardware and format(s) are Bell Atlantic using for their Electronic Yellow Pages? According to USA Weekend (July 2-4, 1993 page 14) it is a CD-ROM player that connects to NTSC color TV. Three hundred homes in Loudoun County, Va. have the demo version for 6 months' testing. It displays advertising and shopper information. In theory, advertising would pay for the hardware. Same article says 28 similar units are installed at hotels and office buildings in Chicago, Illinois. Does this CD-ROM player connect to a phone somehow? Are passwords or access codes required to read the media? Does it gather and report the end-user's search behavior to the phone company? ------------------------------ From: Andrew_Marc_Greene@frankston.com Subject: Voice Mail Jail Story From the New York Times Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 11:07 -0400 Yesterday's {New York Times} had a Metropolitan Diary entry that I thought would be of interest to this audience. Dear Diary: After hearing so many voice-mail instructions in the last few years, I tend to become discouraged at the long lists of instructions that never seem to apply to my situation. But the other day I heard one that confirmed my faith in the people behind the machines. I was phoning a publishing company, and the message started in the usual fashion with a voice droning "Press 1 if you would like to order a specific publication, press 2 if you have a question about an invoice." I was listening halfheartedly when the last option caught my attention with "Press 6 if you would like to speak with a sales representative, if you are thoroughly confused or if you would like to speak with a thoroughly confused representative." Sometimes there's hope. EMMY WYATT ------------------------------ From: syd@dsinc.dsi.com (Syd Weinstein) Subject: Is This AT&T From H*** Week? Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 16:38:50 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: syd@DSI.COM Today alone I have had calls from three AT&T sales droids and one AT&T Market Research firm ... The last one took me forever to get off the phone. (I told him no, a great deal, and was about to just hang up on him.) What I've noticed lately ... 1. AT&T is switching to HIGH pressure sales, ie GET IN THE DOOR for a face to face, regardless of the LD volume. 2. PUSH custom net plans even if residental rates make more sense. (Our needs are skewed with a lot of off hours data traffic to random places). 3. Try and sell bypass for situations that don't warrant it. Gee, AT&T, are you trying to make enemies? Sydney S. Weinstein, CDP, CCP Elm Coordinator - Current 2.4PL22 Datacomp Systems, Inc. Projected 3.0 Release: ??? ?,1994 syd@DSI.COM or dsinc!syd Voice: (215) 947-9900, FAX: (215) 938-0235 ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #481 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa04709; 18 Jul 93 20:18 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA21412 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:56:44 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA22199 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:56:02 -0500 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 17:56:02 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307182256.AA22199@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #482 TELECOM Digest Sun, 18 Jul 93 17:56:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 482 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson New Technology to the Subscriber (Mark A. Terribile) U.S. West Telemarketing (Bruce Albrecht) Need Info on Getting Large Number of Phone Lines (James Knowlton) Advice on Advertising a New Patent Law Firm (Carl Oppedahl) Call Waiting: International Service to Georgia Cut Off (TELECOM Moderator) Newspapers in the Information Age (Dave Niebuhr) AT&T to Begin Leasing Princess Phones (Was: Painful Report) (Alan Toscano) AT&T Email in New Delhi, India (Dalip K. Singh) Caller ID: Is This Possible Without a PC? (William Kucharski) Determine Carrier From an 800 Number? (Marshall Levin) Calling Card Without a Phone Number, or Using VISA (Marshall Levin) RFI - ATM WAN Interconnect (Michael R. Brown) Competition For Talk Tickets (David P. Notley Jr.) United Telephone Locations (Ian Eisenberg) Re: ADSL Hitched to ISDN: The Happy Couple? (Tyson Macaulay) Re: ADSL Hitched to ISDN: The Happy Couple? (John Nagle) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us Subject: New Technology to the Subscriber Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 00:33:02 GMT I just read about this is a recent issue of _Telephony_ (this week's, I think). It's in the laboratory; whether it will ever be deployed is another matter ... It's called ADSL (Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Loop) and it promises megabit bandwidth to the home over existing copper (up to 12 kilofeet of Awg #24). (Some of us, unfortunately, are more than 12 kilofeet from the CO.) Three distinct bands are transmitted: POTS is sent as it is now and an `uplink' and `downlink' band are passively coupled in so that the POTS will not be impaired if the high-tech stuff dies. The `uplink' band is a few tens of kHz wide, and is used to send 384 kbit/sec to the CO. This can be used for an ISDN H0 (PRI) channel or for ISDN BRI (2B+D) and other stuff (e.g. data WAN). The downlink is higher up and extends up to a bit over a MHz. It has a 384 kbit/sec channel to match the uplink channel, PLUS four 1.5 Mbit/sec channel. These can be used for data, for `VCR-grade' TV (using one compression scheme) or (combining either two or four channels with another compression scheme) for `sports quality' or `HDTV-quality' television. The transmission technology is interesting. They originally tried QAM, but they couldn't deal with the infinite varieties of degradation possible on the unshielded twisted pair. (Each line would have interference or resonant degradation at different frequencies.) Instead, they settled on a scheme like Telebit's Packet Ensemble Protocol: the signal band is divided into hundreds of narrow subbands. Each subband carries between 1 and 11 bits per Hz, and each band is a few kHz wide. The system adjusts continuously to adapt to the characteristics of the channel. Bellcore claims that it has been given prototypes of subscriber-end decoders which can be line-powered. (This man's opinions are his own.) From mole-end Mark Terribile mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us, Somewhere in Matawan, NJ ------------------------------ Reply-To: bruce@zuhause.mn.org From: bruce@zuhause.MN.ORG (Bruce Albrecht) Subject: U.S. West Telemarketing Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 15:48:52 CST I have call waiting on one of my phone lines, and US West finally upgraded the switch to support Call Waiting Blocking (*70) about a month ago. The way I found out that they had done so was when US West called me yesterday to try to get me to order "A new service designed for phones with Call Waiting that allows you to turn off Call Waiting on incoming calls." You guessed it, they tried to sell me Three-Way Calling, without ever explicitly calling it that. I suppose they figured that if they never called it Three-Way Calling, that I wouldn't realize that it was an existing service I had already chosen not to get. Their pitch also tried to get me to believe that I'd save in long distance phone bills if I conference called relatives instead of calling them consecutively. Yeah, right. The only reason I found out that Call Waiting Block had been installed was when I asked if Three-Way Calling could be used to block call waiting if the switch didn't support it, and she told me my exchange wasn't on the list of exchanges without the feature. I had noticed that the call waiting tone had changed, but hadn't tried the blocking prefix, so I assume the feature became available when the tone changed. bruce@zuhause.mn.org [Moderator's Note: Well you would in a marginal sense save on your long distance calls if you had to go back and forth relaying messages between relatives one place and relatives in another. By getting them all on the line time to talk as a group you would save the additional calls needed to relay 'he said that she said that you said', etc. And although you can prepend *70 to your outgoing calls to suspend call waiting for the duration of the call, in some central offices there is no way to do *70 on incoming calls unless you have Three Way Calling to otherwise give you a legitimate reason to flash the hook during the middle of a call. Your CO may work that way. PAT] ------------------------------ From: jamesk@netcom.com (James Knowlton) Subject: Need Information on Getting Large Number of Phone Lines Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 00:14:21 PDT I am interested in finding the cheapest way to operate 75-100 phone lines at one location. No calls need to go out on these lines; I need one phone number that would be forwarded to open lines (hunt or busy forwarding, or...?); These lines would fall under business rates but would be setup at a residential location; I am also having a T1 and 1 or 2 56k leased lines installed; My service provider is Pacific Bell. What is the best way to go about doing this, and what options do I have for keeping the cost as low as possible, both for installation and monthly rates on these phone lines? Is there anything in particular I should consider or keep in mind with regards to this, such as maintainence, interference, etc? Are business line measured rates charged only on outgoing calls or on incoming as well? (Sorry, I would have called the phone company on this but it's friday night and I didn't want to wait until monday morning. Impatient eh? :) Any other information you can provide on this would be great. Thanks. ------------------------------ From: oppedahl@panix.com (Carl Oppedahl) Subject: Advice on Advertising a New Patent Law Firm Date: 18 Jul 1993 17:25:36 -0400 Organization: Oppedahl & Larson I would like to attract possible clients to my patent law firm, but am concerned that advertising it by posting information about the firm in usenet groups and the like would go against proper use standards of the Internet or Usenet. Can any readers give advice as to newsgroups where such a posting would not be considered improper? Thank you for any comments. Carl Oppedahl AA2KW (patent lawyer) 1992 Commerce Street #309 Yorktown Heights, NY 10598-4412 voice 212-777-1330 fax 212-777-1913 [Moderator's Note: Advertising on the Internet is generally frowned upon as you point out, but a low-key 'infomercial' message without an offensive or obnoxious pitch is frequently welcome to let people know of resources available to them. You might consider 'misc.legal' as one such place to discuss your services. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 16:27:04 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Subject: Call Waiting: International Service to Georgia Cut Off Russian telephone operators have cut off connections to Georgia's international phone service until the neighboring nation pays its bills. Georgia relies on Russia's antiquated and highly centralized phone network for international calls. Georgia has been in arrears to Russia for sometime with a large past due bill. Now the country is stalling for time in making payments by demanding details first on the number of calls handled by operators in Moscow and the origin/destin- ation points of the calls. Moscow's response was to cut their service off entirely. Just so you know why calls from your friends in Georgia are not getting through. :) PAT ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 12:58:56 EDT From: dwn@dwn.ccd.bnl.gov (Dave Niebuhr) Subject: Newspapers in the Information Age Today's {Newsday}, July 18, 1993, introduced a new series "Online to a Revolution" which describes the advancement of the information age including getting the daily paper online. {Newsday} offers readers a chance to participate by searching and reading files on their terminals or personal computers. All it takes is two simple telephone calls, one local and one long distance (local charge only). Information can even be sent to the author or the entire staff of the paper by just typing the message according to the prompts and a control/Z to quit. Graphics are available for downloading but a Macintosh is required and the connection must be made to either of two New York City numbers (too much for me). The article covers a wide spectrum in information technology and relies heavily on telephony as the medium of transmission. When I get set up, I'll capture the main article and, with PATs permission, post it to the group, preferably as a separate article since it is quite long. Anyone can access this service if they have a TCP/IP connection just by telnetting to delphi.com and using HIGHWAY as the user name. Dave Niebuhr Internet: niebuhr@bnl.gov / Bitnet: niebuhr@bnl Brookhaven National Laboratory Upton, LI, NY 11973 (516)-282-3093 Senior Technical Specialist: Scientific Computer Facility [Moderator's Note: Send it along, bearing in mind that the backlog here has now reached a record level with some 400-plus articles waiting for review, consideration and possible inclusion. Readers will be tolerant if their ply does not appear for awhile, if at all and hopefully not run to some other newsgroup to complain bitterly that their thoughts were 'censored' because I disagreed with them. I think you know who I mean :). PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 10:31 PDT From: atoscano@speedway.net (A Alan Toscano) Subject: AT&T to Begin Leasing Princess Phones (Was: Painful Report...) > And mark my > words, in about ten or twenty years you'll probably start seeing > Princess phone reproductions on the market, just as you now see cheapo > imported 300-set reproductions with round pushbuttions where the dial > holes used to be!) Not quite that long. Try two months ... Starting in October, AT&T will be offering *newly manufactured* PRINCESS(R) phones for lease. These are slightly redesigned reproductions, if you will, available in Aqua Blue, Ivory, Peach, Rose Pink, and White. (I suppose they'll have electronic "ringers.") For the purist, they continue to lease rebuilt/refurbished original-design PRINCESS phones. While some of AT&T's lease products may be purchased after being leased for a month or so, that option is not offered for the PRINCESS. If you prefer to own, you'll have to shop your local antique stores and/or flea markets. I don't see them often, but original PRINCESSes are still for sale out there. You just have to hunt them down. A Alan Toscano -- P O Box 741982 -- Houston, TX 77274 -- 713 216-6616 atoscano@speedway.net ------------------------------ From: singh@sdesys1.hns.com (SINGH, DALIP K) Subject: AT&T Email in New Delhi, India Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 22:04:00 GMT Organization: Hughes Network Systems, Inc. I have a friend working for AT&T in New Delhi, India with an email address attmail!attdel!bhogal. How can I send mail to him on Internet. Dalip Email:singh@lando.hns.com [Moderator's Note: Using precisely the address you gave above! That *is* his Internet address. Try attmail!attdel!bhogal@att.com. That should work fine; likewise bhogal%attdel@attmail.com will probably get there also. PAT] ------------------------------ From: kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski) Subject: Caller ID: Is This Possible Without a PC? Date: 18 Jul 1993 10:22:12 -0600 Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO It seems to be that the majority of people out there would jump on the Caller ID bandwagon if there were only a relatively inexpensive way to do the following (an answering machine seems to be the appliance I envision): 1) Caller # in database: Allow phone to ring. Machine answers after 2/4 rings like a normal "toll saver" answering machine. 2) Caller # not in database or caller from area without CID: Answering machine picks up immediately. 3) Caller # blocked: Caller hung up on after appropriately rude message. I've seen devices that do #3, but #1/#2 don't seem possible without a PC with Caller ID interface or an answering machine with a VCR-type display. (BTW, it also seems like a natural outgrowth of the voice time-stamp answering machine would be a voice time/caller # stamp machine ...) Anyone know of an easy way to do what I want without buying a PC, interface and appropriate voice mail software? | William Kucharski, Solbourne Computer, Inc. | Opinions expressed herein | Internet: kucharsk@solbourne.com Ham: N0OKQ | are MINE alone, NOT those | Snail Mail: 1900 Pike Road, Longmont, CO 80501 | of Solbourne Computer, Inc. | President, "Just the Ten of Us" Fan Club | "Dittos from Longmont, CO" ------------------------------ From: mlevin@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshall Levin) Subject: Determine Carrier From an 800 Number? Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci. Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 02:47:22 GMT A friend of mine in NY wanted to call me at work (in OH) on my company's 800 number. She called 800-555-1212 and presumably got an AT&T operator, who did not have a listing for it. I know this number is dialable from outside OH (I called it from VT). I am guessing it is not an AT&T number. If this is the case, how could she find a listing for it? It is possible to tell which carrier it is on by looking at the number (it is 800-860-xxxx)? Thanks, Marshall Levin [Moderator's Note: A listing with 800-555-1212 does *not* require that the number be handled by AT&T. The 800-555-1212 database is handled by Southwestern Bell in St. Louis, MO under a contract with Bellcore. Anyone with an 800 number can be listed; I do not know what the current fee is. Unlike regular numbers where the listing is free and a non-pub status costs money, with 800 it is the other way around. Non-pub is free and the listing costs money. More than likely your company chose to have the 800 number non-pub, and they advertise it according to their own methods if at all. They probably do not like having personal calls to employees arriving on it. The fact that it is 800-860 no longer means anything; any carrier offering 800 service could serving it. PAT] ------------------------------ From: mlevin@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshall Levin) Subject: Calling Card Without a Phone Number, or Using VISA Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci. Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 02:56:09 GMT Are there any carriers out there that will give me a calling card without having my own phone number? I am living with my parents now but travel often and need to make calls on the road. I'd prefer not to use their card. At school we have a phone system in which the school has a main number and students have extensions which do not correspond to a real telephone numner or line. Students do not have a real line and cannot choose their carrier or order special services like at some other schools -- it's all "in house". Alternatively, are there any carriers that will allow me to charge calls to my VISA card? Can such a thing be DIRECT DIALED? If so, how? Are the rates for using a VISA card mich higher? I think I heard about MCI offering this (I don't know if it is direct dialed or needs an operator, though). Also, I work at a bank and I noticed on someone's VISA bill entries in the following format: MCI 02MIN 555 555 5555 .64 ITT 05MIN 555 555 1234 .45 SPR 02MIN 555 555 1212 .53 (or something like that). Apparently these carriers offer such a service -- now how does one access it? Thanks, Marshall Levin [Moderator's Note: MCI has a plan where calls can be billed to VISA or AMEX directly but I think you ask your credit card service about it rather than MCI since the credit card service is getting the kickback from MCI on monthly billings, etc. AT&T has a miscellaneous billing type calling card (I think they contract it out through Cinn Bell for processing, but you would contact AT&T Customer Service to sign up). And here comes today's infomercial from your Moderator: Orange Communications offers a 25 cent per minute no surcharge calling card to persons with decent credit standing for a one time only $12 enroll- ment fee. To receive an Orange Calling Card application write to my personal netmail address: ptownson@eecs.nwu.edu. PAT] ------------------------------ From: Michael R. Brown Subject: RFI - ATM WAN Interconnect Organization: The MITRE Corporation Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 15:37:09 GMT *** Request for Information *** *** Wide Area ATM Testbed *** The MITRE Corporation, a non-profit systems engineering concern working in the public interest, is seeking information on options for interconnecting several ATM network testbeds in the Boston MA, Syracuse NY, and Washington DC areas. Such options can include, but are not necessarily limited to, dedicated leased line (DS3/OC1-3) and switched ATM service (DS3/OC1-3). Current plans call for interconnecting these testbeds in Oct 93 timeframe. A high-level diagram of these facilities is provided below. +++++++++++ +++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++ + + + + + + Griffiss +<--------->+ MITRE +<--------->+ MITRE + + AFB, NY + +Bedford MA + +McLean,VA Fore ASX-100 Fore ASX-100 Fore ASX-100 (2) GTE Spanet Newbridge 36150 (2) Options, including pricing information, for interconnecting these testbeds would be appreciated by 1 August 1993. Please limit written responses to five pages. For further information please contact: Michael R. Brown Advanced Telecom Group The MITRE Corporation MS B280, Burlington Rd Bedford, MA 01730-1420 (617) 271-7390, (617) 271-7231 (Fax) mrb@mitre.org. ------------------------------ From: David P. Notley Jr. Subject: Competition for Talk Tickets Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 09:41:58 EDT The local Safeway (Hyattsville, MD) is selling "Long Distance Phone Certificate"s that look very much like Talk Tickets. They provide 30 minutes LD to U.S. including Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico for $5.00. Service is apparently provided by Sprint. Dial 1 800 743-9916 Enter 10 digit certificate number Enter 1+area code+telephone number One small gotcha though ... The certificate expires 31 DEC 93. DPN [Moderator's Note: I think they are doing this (at that price for 30 minutes) as a promotional thing; much like the $2 Talk Tickets I have here are less expensive in quantity than the normal $5 and $10 Talk Tickets are selling for. Western Union also has a prepaid calling card out now you can purchase at currency exchanges and some banks. PAT] ------------------------------ From: slick@cyberspace.com (Ian Eisenberg) Subject: United Telephone Locations Date: 18 Jul 1993 16:50:53 -0700 Organization: (CYBERSPACE) Public Internet 206.286.1600 Does anyone have a list of United Telephone LECs?. A complete list would be great and NPA and NXX even better. If you just know of a couple I would appreciate it. My address is: ian@cyberspace.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 11:08:38 EDT From: Tyson=Macaulay%DTP%DGCP=HQ=ADMSR@dgbt.banyan.doc.ca Subject: Re: ADSL Hitched to ISDN: The Happy Couple? I have found the recent discussion on the future of ISDN to be particularly interesting because of the work I am doing on network development for the government of Canada. (Which is currently is reorg, so I can't explain which department without undue confusion) A major problem with the development of networks is *access*. A public good/ or a piece of the public infrastructure, must be accessible to the public is a reasonably effective manner. But how do you do this? One answer (skipping over many concerns in between) is to take POTS lines (which have a virtually universal penetration in Canada, and the US)and put ISDN on them. Thus making it possible for people to tie into a dial up network access point (Freenet, University Site) and transfer large amounts of data quickly and effectively; In fact, with this type of capacity you could almost say that the NAP become the central office.(?) However, even multiplexed, BRI ISDN will provide, what, 144Kbps? Good enough for data transfer, but not nearly good enough for many of the multi- media applications that will be the truly useful items on the net. I do not refer to movies and such crap, but rather interactive educational devices, or commercial product demonstrations. (For the American readers, the network development Business Plan for the developing Canadian backbone -- Canadian Network for the Advancement of Research, Industry and Education, or CANARIE -- has much more commercial emphasis than the NSFnet. This business plan is available by anonymous ftp at unbmvs1.csd.unb.ca /pub/net/canarie). Now to the point. I have heard from a manager at Northern Telecom that they are flirting with the idea of marrying ISDN to ADSL (Asymmetrical Digital Subscriber Loop), thus retaining the signalling standard that has been so pain-stakingly developed for ISDN, but vastly increasing the transport capacity. ADSL-1 can provide 1.544 Mbps over unshielded twisted pair (UTP), while ADSL-2 will move above 3 Mbps and ADSL-3 can jam up to 6 Mbps over UTP. Now we are talking a good base for multimedia applications to the home! Now we are talking a type of access that will make networks count to citizens in the future. Comments please? Must we rehash the discussion about affordability of equipment, or tariffs? Tyson Macaulay e-mail: tyson@debra.dgbt.doc.ca tmacaula@ccs.carleton.ca Communications Canada 7th Floor, Journal Tower North 300 Slater Street Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0C8 ------------------------------ From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle) Subject: Re: ADSL Hitched to ISDN: The Happy Couple? Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 16:13:13 GMT Tyson=Macaulay%DTP%DGCP=HQ=ADMSR@dgbt.banyan.doc.ca writes: > Now to the point. I have heard from a manager at Northern > Telecom that they are flirting with the idea of marrying ISDN to ADSL > (Asymmetrical Digital Subscriber Loop), thus retaining the signalling > standard that has been so pain-stakingly developed for ISDN, but > vastly increasing the transport capacity. ADSL-1 can provide 1.544 > Mbps over unshielded twisted pair (UTP), while ADSL-2 will move above > 3 Mbps and ADSL-3 can jam up to 6 Mbps over UTP. Now we are talking a > good base for multimedia applications to the home! Now we are talking > a type of access that will make networks count to citizens in the > future. ADSL is asymmetrical; the high bandwidth is one-way. The other direction is supposedly 64Kb, although maybe you get two ISDN channels. It's intended to compete with cable TV. The idea is to have something comparable to a remote-controlled cable box at the CO, giving you one of a limited number of compressed TV channels, as well as phone service, over the same wire. Assuming you think 1Mb compressed TV is worth watching. Does it really need unshielded twisted pair? Local loops aren't normally twisted. Twisting decreases RF coupling between adjacent pairs substantially, but it's not standard for existing phone wiring, inside or outside. John Nagle ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #482 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa06443; 18 Jul 93 21:44 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA11554 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Sun, 18 Jul 1993 19:33:40 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA08152 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Sun, 18 Jul 1993 19:32:49 -0500 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 19:32:49 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307190032.AA08152@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #483 TELECOM Digest Sun, 18 Jul 93 19:32:45 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 483 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Nokia P4000 Programming Data (Mike Riddle) Does This Device Exist? (Jack Decker) Fire Tragedy Strikes Digest Reader (Albert Crosby via TELECOM Moderator) Caller-ID Packet Breakdown? (John Matthews) Prodigy Internet Gateway is Up! (Seng-Poh Lee) Toronto Now All-DMS Switching (David Leibold) Standard Practice For Wiring House (Thomas Hinders) Looking For V.Fast Information (phannon@zeus.dnet.ge.com) AT&T Credit Card From Europe (Povl H. Pedersen) Looking For an 800 Service (Dale Farmer) What Would be a Fair Commission to us From AT&T? (Jerry Anderson) Communications Daily Contact Info (Kelly Breit) Expanded Local Calls in Southern MD (Carl Moore) Connecting Two Computers via RS-232 With a *Long* Cable (Marc Schaefer) Welcome to New Readers (TELECOM Moderator) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 09:19:18 CST From: Mike.Riddle@axolotl.omahug.org (Mike Riddle) Subject: Nokia P4000 Programming Data Reply-To: mike.riddle%inns@axolotl.omahug.org Organization: Inns of Court, Papillion, NE A while back I asked for programming data for the Nokia P4000. I received one response with the information, and many requests for the data. So here is what I have. While it seems to end abruptly, I've been assured this is all there was. Programming information for Nokia Mobira P4000 NAM Type: E2 PROM Manufacturer: NOKIA MOBIRA Programmer: Keypad (Provided current security code is known if not, service adapter is necessary to access program parameters) ESN Prefix: Dec 165 Hex A5 ESN/Serial number match: YES Number of Channels: 832 Programming sequence: Power ON Enter program mode: * + 3001 + # + XXXXX + SEL + 9 + END XXXXX=12345 (new phones) XXXXX=Current Security Code "IDENTIF INFO PRI" will display (Press SND to toggle "on" if necessary) Press END to step through parameters To toggle parameters, press SND (i.e. Perf System) Once programming is complete, power phone OFF then ON to exit Program Mode. Step Parameter # of digits Normal 1 System ID 5 XXXXX + END 2 Access Method (MIN Opt) 1 1 + END 3 LOCL OPT (Local Use) 1 1 + END 4 Mobile Number 10 XXX-XXX-XXXX + END 5 Station Class 2 10 + END 6 Initial Paging Channel 3 (333 or 334) + END 7 Access Overload 2 XX + END 8 Perfered System - Press SND to Toggle (A or B) + END 9 Group ID 2 XX + END 10 Security Code 5 XXXXX + END 11 Serial Number (Same as Stamped Number) Press END 12 Manufacturer Date Press END 13 Installation Date 6 MM/DD/YY + END Power phone OFF and ON to complete programming or return to "IDENTIF INFO PRI" to program 2nd NAM. Programming Second NAM: With "IDENTIF INFO PRI" on display press SND to toggle to "IDENTIF INFO OPT" (to program second NAM) Enter information for steps 1-13 for the 2nd NAM Power phone OFF and ON to complete the program process. New Unlock Code: SEL + 5 + 5 Digit Security Code (NAM) (Current Unlock code will display) + New 4 digit unlock code + SEL System Select: SEL + 1 + 1 + 1 etc. (To scroll choices) Home A B Both (AB and BA) <<<< insert standard disclaimer here >>>> mike.riddle@inns.omahug.org | Nebraska Inns of Court | +1 402 593 1192 (Data) Sysop of 1:285/27@Fidonet | 3/12/24/9600 V.32/V.42bis inns.omahug.org +1 402 593-1192 (1:285/27) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 15:39:09 EDT From: ao944@yfn.ysu.edu (Jack Decker) Subject: Does This Device Exist? This is mostly a curiosity question, but could have some practical applications. What I am wondering is if anyone makes a device that comes in two parts, and that passes DC signalling and ringing through a "wet" line. That's probably a confusing description; maybe a diagram will help: ________ _____ _____ |_|----|_| | "A" | | "B" | To / \ |UNIT |==================|UNIT |======> Telco /____\=========|_____| ("wet" circuit) |_____| or PBX CPE line The idea is, to the CPE (be it a "plain old telephone set" or something else), the "A" and "B" units aren't there ... any outward rotary dialing or hookswitch flashing will be processed normally, while any incoming ring signal from the telco will be passed through to the CPE. Ideally, the "A" and "B" units should provide sufficient amplification so that to the CPE, the volume level is the same as if it were actually connected to the line parallel to the "B" unit. A plus would be if the "A" and "B" units (either or both, preferably both) had the capability of monitoring the condition of the connection over the "wet" circuit continuously, and if it dropped, redial the connection (using tone OR pulse dialing -- this assumes that the "wet" connection is a dialup circuit of some sort). Now, why would one want something like this? Well, let me give you just one potential application (there are probably many, but this one will suffice): You have call forwarding from your office to your home, but you receive a lot of incoming calls, and are charged message units for each completed call (on a per call basis ... each call is charged at the same rate, whether it lasts one second or one day). With this type of unit, you could get a second phone line at your home and at your office, hang the "B" unit at your office (connecting the telco side to your original office line) and the "A" unit at your home (connecting a phone there), and establish one continuous dial-up connection between the two. Voila ... instant off-premesis extension AND you don't even have to remember to turn on call forwarding if you step out of your office for a few minutes (assuming someone is at home). Not only that, but from your home you'd be able to place outgoing calls on your office line (which may have access to a different local calling area, outward WATS service, specialized PBX features, or whatever). Now I realize that some will dislike the idea of tying up a dialup connection continuously, but please remember that it was the telcos who decided to price dedicated private circuits so high as to put them out of reach of most businesses and individuals. We have to deal with the tariffs as they are, and right now the tariffs in most areas often favor a continuous dial-up connection over a leased circuit. If the tariffs change, then we deal with whatever the new tariffs are. Anyway, I know that you can achieve some of the above functionality if you have a PBX with OPX (off-premises extension) capabilities, but I've never heard of standalone units that offer this sort of thing, and I think that (if they're not already available) the first manufacturer that comes up with such units will make a bundle. The big key is their simplicity; you should be able to just plug them into phone jacks at each end, program whichever end is supposed to dial the other with the number to dial (and whether to dial using pulse or tone), assuming that any dialing is to take place at all, and away you go. If they can be designed so you don't need a telecom expert to install them, that would be a BIG selling point. One other point is that an upgraded version of this unit could offer digital transmission and/or rudimentary encryption between the "A" and "B" ends, but I would personally think the bigger market would be for a plain old cheap analog version (after all, if it's very expensive, the primary reason for using it goes away). Any existing products like this? If not, anyone planning on making such a device? Jack Decker | ao944@yfn.ysu.edu or ac388@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 14:27:16 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Subject: Fire Tragedy Strikes Digest Reader [Moderator's Note: I received a sad story in email over the weekend. A reader's home caught fire; he and his family are staying with a friend in the community -- except one family member that is: his three year old son was badly injured in the fire and is in the hospital. I'll let him tell the story of how the local telco has responded thus far to his call for assistance with phone service. PAT] I'm needing a little help - Is there some way that I can arrange with anyone that you know of to get calling card type services almost immediately? (Or would I be better off paying the hospital fees for placing calls?) I'm willing to pay via MC or whatever ... it's the weekend, and my little boy's in the hospital. Burns. We've chosen to make his info "non-public", which has the side effect of not getting calls routed in ... (He's fine, BTW. Well, alive. First and second degree, 20% of body, and he's 3 1/2.) We had an apartment fire. And our apartment is sealed off for investigation. I did manage after only about 15 minutes of persuasion to convince the folks at Southwestern Bell to remote call forward my phone to my mother-in-law's. At first, the phone office wanted to disconnect my apartment and provide a free move (kind of them) to my new address. We've been too concerned about our son's health to even worry about that one. I asked about remote call forwarding. Got transferred to business division, where they tried to sell me the "tele-branch" (or whatever they were calling it today) service. It'd involve disconnecting my current number, a new work order for that number, an installation fee, and then calls to that number would get forwarded at four cents per minute (to a local number - else L.D. charges, of course). I said, no, I simply wanted remote call forwarding. I explained, patiently, I felt, that in some areas, a class of service existed as an extension to call forwarding that allowed the phone to be forwarded without being at the physical address of the service. Apparently that's not tarriffed in NW Arkansas. Amazingly, though, one of the operators involved (not even a supervisor yet, mind you) confessed that "we have, in emergencies, forwarded phone service from the operator *if* you have call forwarding." I asked, "Great. Would that be possible for me?" They agreed it would be. True amazement and most pleasing, though, was next. I didn't have forwarding on my phone. Been meaning to add it, but hadn't. I was prepared to wait. Instead, the residential service operator said "We'll place an order to have call forwarding enabled on your phone *today*. There'll be a $10 install, and $3/month. Remember, when you relocate your service to mention that your phone was forwarded by the operator, and that you had a fire so you'll get the free move." And, in about two hours, when I checked, my home phone was forwarded as I'd desired. A small touch of pleasantness in an unhappy situation. Albert Crosby | Microcomputer & Network Support acrosby@uafhp.uark.edu | University of Arkansas or AL.CROSBY on GENIE | College of Agriculture And 1 501 575 4452 | Home Economics [Moderator's Note: As you know, we talked on the phone Sunday afternoon and you've been given open account billing on the Talk Ticket program so you can avoid the excessive phone charges the hospital would tack on to your bill for using the phone in your son's room. I chatted with the hospital switchboard and calls can be made either in the room or from payphones in the hospital via the 800 number for the Talk Ticket switch. You can forward a check to my office for the serial numbers I gave you when you get a few minutes of free time to do so. If you need more ticket serial numbers, you have my number to call and request them. If I understood correctly from our brief conversation, the fire began in the little guy's bedroom and he was the only one hurt. Even though you've lost many of your possessions, the little guy is alive -- and that's all that really matters, isn't it? Best wishes from all of us. I'm sure I speak for other readers. PAT] ------------------------------ From: John Matthews Subject: Caller-ID Packet Breakdown? Reply-To: John Matthews Organization: U S WEST Management Information Services Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 23:13:01 GMT Does anyone out there have info on the structure of the Caller ID packet? I have a Zyxel modem and to do what I want I need to, I have to set S48=1 to tell the modem to hand me the full Caller-ID packet in hex. I figured out the obvious fields within the packet such as date, phone#, and name but there are other fields that aren't immiediately obvious. If anyone has such documentation handy, could they please e-mail it to me? Thanks in advance, John Matthews matthews@mis.uswest.com ------------------------------ From: Seng-Poh Lee Subject: Prodigy Internet Gateway is Up! Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 22:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Well, almost. Here's the current error you receive when you mail to a userid@prodigy.com: Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Status: OR ----- Transcript of session follows ----- While talking to mail.prodigy.com: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 Invalid UserId. The Prodigy member id to which this message was sent is either non-existent or not enrolled for InterNet messages 550 jwbs90b@mail.prodigy.com... User unknown Note that JWBS90B is a valid ID, so it seems that all that remains is for Prodigy to announce it, and let users know how much it is going to cost them to enroll and to send and receive Internet mail. Seng-Poh Lee ------------------------------ Subject: Toronto Now All-DMS Switching From: woody Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 13:52:06 -0400 Bell Canada had an ad Thursday in the papers proclaiming Toronto to be "the first city in the world where everyone has a digital sound system". Actually, what this means is that all switches in Toronto exchange are now converted to the Northern Telecom DMS variety, thus meaning all numbers can have things like Call Waiting, Caller ID, forwarding, CCS7 signalling, etc etc. There was to be a Bell Wave Day at the Blue Jays baseball game tonight (15 July). [Moderator's Note: David's message arrived truncated at this point for some reason, but I think we all get the idea. :) PAT] ------------------------------ Date: 18 Jul 1993 08:16:08 EDT From: Hinders, Thomas Subject: Standard Practice For Wiring House If a telephone technician was dispatched to install jacks and wiring for a home under construction, would the standard practice be for him to wire the jacks in daisy-chain or run a separate line to some common point. Could someone in the group associated with a BOC (esp Bell of PA) please respond. I contracted (with an eletrician) to wire my new home during construction. I instructed him (based on input from this group) to pull separate lines for each wall jack to the basement. However, he wired all the jacks in daisy-chain fashion. When I objected, he claimed that daisy-chain wiring is standard wiring practice. Is there any technical reason to install in daisy-chain fashion, or is it just cheaper? Thanks, Tom Hinders/Soft-Switch +1 215 640 7487 (v/vm) +1 215 640 7511 (f) Internet: thinder@SSW.COM X.400: C=US A=Telemail P=Softswitch S=Hinders G=Thomas ------------------------------ From: phannon@zeus.dnet.ge.com Subject: Looking For V.Fast Information Organization: Martin Marietta, Burlington, Mass Date: 18 Jul 93 15:25:26 GMT Request any information that anyone has on the V.Fast standard for modems Mailed to me would be Very much appreciated. (School project.) Thanks, -pete ------------------------------ From: povlphp@uts.uni-c.dk (Povl H. Pedersen) Subject: AT&T Credit Card From Europe Organization: UNI-C, Danish Computing Centre for Research and Education Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 23:33:31 GMT I have just been iinformed that I can contact AT&T and get a credit card billed to my VISA card that will alloow me to call USA for less than $0.50/min, which is about a third of the price I pay with Danish telecom. How much can I use it? How about calling 800 numbers? Can I use it for cheaper dialing to the rest of the world too? It almost sounds too good. According to the info I got you starts with a call to a danish 800 number to get further on. Povl H. Pedersen - Macintosh specialist. Knows some DOS and UNIX too. pope@imv.aau.dk - povlphp@uts.uni-c.dk --- Finger me at pope@imv.aau.dk for PGP Public Key --- ------------------------------ From: dale@access.digex.net (Dale Farmer) Subject: Looking For an 800 Service Date: 18 Jul 1993 13:37:05 GMT Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA I need to get some preliminary cost numbers for an 800 service a client is considering. This is what we want: A single 800 number that works in all 50 states, and us territories (guam, virgin islands, etc). This number would go to the local state office for that territory, presumably by decoding the ANI info and routing it appropriatly. When it arrives at the office it passes the number calling from so we can do an autometic lookup of that individuals records from our internal database. If some kind soul can e-mail some ballpark figures for the service cost and likely equipment costs, or a pointer to a service providers point of contact I would be immensely grateful. Dale Farmer ------------------------------ From: jerry@telecom.ksu.edu (Jerry Anderson) Subject: What Would be a Fair Commission to us From AT&T? Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 17:19:40 CDT According to AT&T, they are now tariffed to bypass our local exchange carrier (Southwestern Bell) for both interLATA and intraLATA traffic. To induce us to sign up with AT&T they have offered us an increase in our per-call commission. Before we sign, we'd like to know what a fair commission for using AT&T bypass service would be. How much is AT&T now paying SWBell in access charges? How should we decide on a fair per-call commission? The portion of our traffic involved is roughly 20,000 calls per month. Any help, information or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. jerry@telecom.ksu.edu Jerry Anderson Kansas State University DID: (913) 532-6936 Telecommunications Fax: (913) 532-7114 Manhattan KS 66506 ------------------------------ Date: 18 Jul 93 17:19:04 EDT From: Kelly Breit <73162.3265@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Communications Daily Contact Information Wanted Pat: Recently, I have seen several references to the {Communications Daily} in news releases and TELECOM Digest postings. How do I contact the {Communications Daily} and who is their primary target customer? Thanks for your help. Kelly Breit Network Analyst H.B. Fuller Company ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 15:57:27 EDT From: Carl Moore Subject: Expanded Local Calls in Southern MD Messages from harveyb@tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 07:48:07 EDT > For what it is worth, C&P recently made calls between Solomons Island > (area code 410) and the Lexington Park area (area code 301) local. To > dial back and forth, only the 10 digit area code+number is required. If > the 1+ is added, the system disregards it. >Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 14:54:02 EDT >This change has been effective for about >three months now. Apparently some federal judge had to bless the action >because of how the state LATAs were set up, and with the scheduled >influx of more DOD workers to Pax, it became a political matter that >finally made sense to C&P and the judge. Pax means "Patuxent", the river passing by Solomons, and also the name of a nearby Navy base. Solomons, Md. is on the 326 exchange, now in 410. From Solomons, in Calvert County, there is a bridge (Md. route 4) to St. Mary's County, and it is apparently calls across the Patuxent River here which are now local. Some years ago now, the bridge, which is rather new, had to be closed for a while, and I read of the disruption that caused, given the growth in the area and the commerce that developed based on that bridge. A ferry had to be put into service until the bridge re-opened. 800-477-4704, the C&P Maryland split help-line, is still working at this writing. But entering 326 did not inform me of this new local service, which crosses the 301/410 border. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 14:30:19 CED Reply-To: sysop@alphanet.ch Organization: ALPHANET Network First - Colombier (NE), Switzerland From: sysop@alphanet.ch (Marc SCHAEFER) Subject: Connecting Two Computers via RS-232 With a *Long* Cable Hi, I have a computer I would want to link to another computer which is approximately 50 _meters_ away. There is no transfer problems at that distance (checked by connecting two ports via 50 meter cable on the same computer). However it may be possible that the 220V connection is not the same on the two houses. So what could be the danger of connecting the pins 2,3,7 (7 is signal ground, not protective ground) at that distance ? Thanks in advance, Marc SCHAEFER _ sysadm@alphanet.ch -or- schaefer@di.epfl.ch Battieux 6c MUD:mud.imp.ch@2345 FTP:litamiga.epfl.ch:/pub 2013 COLOMBIER CH| Week fast response mail schaefer@di.epfl.ch ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 18:15:15 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Subject: Welcome to New Readers Over the weekend I processed a huge number of subscription requests to be added to the Digest mailing list, and I want to simply give this generic welcome to all new subscribers in recent weeks. Of particular interest to me were the new subscriptions processed for the Interna- tional Telecommunications Union in Switzerland. Welcome all! Patrick Townson ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #483 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa09768; 19 Jul 93 0:03 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA26096 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Sun, 18 Jul 1993 21:04:32 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA16113 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Sun, 18 Jul 1993 21:03:32 -0500 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 21:03:32 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307190203.AA16113@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #484 TELECOM Digest Sun, 18 Jul 93 21:03:30 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 484 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? (Ehud Gavron) Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? (Andrew R. Ghali) Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? (Justin Greene) Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? (Gordon Hlavenka) Re: Flooding in Iowa (Thomas Lapp) Re: Flooding in Iowa (Robert Bonomi) Re: Incident at a COCOT (Seng-Poh Lee) Re: Incident at a COCOT (Donald R. Newcomb) Re: Incident at a COCOT (Don Hackler) Re: Why Can't I Call 800 Numbers Internationally? (Laurence Chiu) Re: Why Can't I Call 800 Numbers Internationally? (Frederick Roeber) Re: Why Can't I Call 800 Numbers Internationally? (John R. Levine) Re: Why Can't I Call 800 Numbers Internationally? (Dirk Vanoucek) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gavron@spades.aces.com (Ehud Gavron) Subject: Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? Date: 18 Jul 1993 02:03 MST Organization: ACES Research Inc. Reply-To: gavron@ACES.COM In article , schuster@panix.com (Michael Schuster) writes: > Recent FCC action on receiver frequency coverage has been to ban > the sale of scanners covering cellular frequencies. No this is not true. FCC action has _NOT_ been to ban the sale of such scanners. FCC action has been to inform manufacturers that they (the mfgs) must make their equipment so it can't be modified to scan the CMT band, nor scan it out of the box. Ehud Gavron (EG76) gavron@aces.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 00:13:25 EDT From: Andrew R. Ghali Reply-To: andrewg@viper.ece.cmu.edu Subject: Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? In article Bart Z. Lederman writes: > According to the May 1993 issue of {Popular Communications}, > the FCC plans to expand the upper end of the AM Broadcast band to > 1700 kHz... > But this frequency band was recently used for cordless > telephones (before 46-49 MHz became available), and I'm sure a > lot of those units are still in use. > Anyone care to speculate on what is going to happen when the > FCC has two rules in place: one which requires manufacturers to > build receivers that cover these frequencies, and one which > prohibits them from building receivers which cover these > frequencies because they could be used to listen in on telephone > calls? I believe that there are actually two issues here: cordless phones and cellular phones. By the Communications Act of 1988 (?) it is illegal to interecept *cellular phone* transmissions. However, *cordless phones* were not protected, and in a case from a few years back, a federal court (Supreme Court?) ruled that cordless phone transmissions were receivable and that it was up to the users of cordless phones to protect their privacy. The FCC, strangely enough, did not make either determination, which is why the whole issue is so screwy. At least, that is my current understanding of this mess. Please correct me if I am wrong -- I would like to know. Andrew ------------------------------ From: jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) Subject: Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 22:13:33 GMT >(1) There is no "no radios can receive telephone calls" rule. There >is a law against selling scanning receivers that tune in *cellular* >phone frequencies. Cordless, ship-to-shore, and other kinds of radio >telephones are not affected. I was under the impression that it was not illegal to listen, only to pass on what you hear to a third party, or is this specifically related to police scanners and the likes? Justin Greene Finger for PGP 2.x public key ------------------------------ From: cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us (gordon hlavenka) Subject: Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? Organization: Vpnet Public Access Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 14:51:06 GMT >[Moderator's Note: I think the old-style cordless phones, like the >highway road conditions announcement service are going to be booted >out of that frequency range. Others having to leave include the radio >signal beacons on the Great Lakes which operate at 1630 KC... And GTE Airfone's cordless system, which uses eight channels in the 1.6MHz range for the link from base-to-handset. (It's based on an ancient Pace cordless phone.) Gordon S. Hlavenka cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 09:14:16 EDT From: Thomas Lapp Subject: Re: Flooding in Iowa Brian D McMahon talked about the outages that his site suffered because of lines going through COs located in the flooded areas. My company has quite a number of long-distance leased lines, and we are seeing hits on a number of them that we would not think would be affected by the mid-west (ie. east coast to overseas, and east coast to southern atlantic states). However, we are finding that because of route diversity, some of the lines ARE going through that area. In fact, the earth station for the overseas line happens to be in the mid-west, not in the east as expected. And, yes, some of the mid-Atlantic to south-Atlantic lines pass through offices in the flooded area! tom internet : mvac23!thomas@udel.edu or thomas%mvac23@udel.edu (home) : lapp@cdhub1.dnet.dupont.com (work) OSI : C=US/A=MCI/S=LAPP/D=ID=4398613 uucp : {ucbvax,mcvax,uunet}!udel!mvac23!thomas Location : Newark, DE, USA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 03:26:58 -0500 From: Robert Bonomi Subject: Re: Flooding in Iowa Pat, I was born and raised in Des Moines, and have family currently in Ames. And yes, it it far-and-away the worst flooding in Des Moines in anything approaching recent history. I can personally vouch for the last 35 yers. They've had some 'doozies' of floods in that area, during that time, too -- July 4, 1973 comes to mind. Tremendous rains upstream on the Racoon River, i.e. 18" to 28" of rainfall in 24 hours at some points. The river went up approximatly 40' (yes, forty feet) above its normal level. (The Racoon is normally a 'small' river, about like the north branch of the Chicago river, here.) We were sandbagging atop the railroad tracks, almost 1-1/2 miles away from the river-bed, attempting to protect the West Des Moines busines district. We won, but it was very close. For years, there were little signs on the phone poles downtown there with a red line across them, somewhat above eye-level, and text that read "level of water if dike had failed, 7/4/73". For Des Moines, the current flooding is on the same order as the Chicago river 'leak' here, last year. With the additional complication of having lost the water purification plant, as well. From the news film clips, most of the downtown business district is several feet deep. Luckily, the telco central office (both the switches, and the business offices are on somewhat higher ground, and are intact, and not threatened. However, there is going to be a massive job of drying out the underground vaults, and cable runs in the downtown area. There were local reports of rescuing people, by canoe(!) from the third floor window of a Holiday Inn that is about 1/2 mile from the water plant. Ground level at that hotel is better than 25 feet above 'normal' river level. I've seen estimates, that it'll take two weeks before the water's out of the downtown area. Scary. Robert Bonomi bonomi@delta.eecs.nwu.edu [Moderator's Note: You heard the news report perhaps which noted a bit of history in the changes to our geological status. The radio report was very simply, "The Missouri River now connects with the Mississippi River at a point twenty miles north of where it formerly connected ..." Not by any means to make light of the tragedy in Iowa/Missouri/Illinois at the present time, but in the grander scheme of things, what does it matter I guess ... a few thousand years from now, geologists will study the land and rock formations, etc in that part of the country and issue a report saying "It appears that at one time a few thousand years ago the Missouri River joined the Mississipi some distance south." Can't Mother Nature be a real bi--- sometimes? Of more immediate concern though are calls from the Red Cross and other relief agencies to assist however possible. Des Moines and other areas there are hurting very badly. Do what you can to help. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 04:03:31 -0400 From: Seng-Poh Lee, Speedy Subject: Re: Incident at a COCOT Organization: Public Domain Inc. In article was written: > A legal COCOT question, are they allowed to block 800 service? A few > around here (downtown Denver) block 800 and 950 and do not have all > local exchanges programmed so a local call to my pager cost $1.70 > (about the same as a small explosive that would fit in the coin > return). Can they do this legally? > [Moderator's Note: COCOTS cannot legally block calls to 800 numbers. How about charging $0.50 for the 800 call? I've come across several in Flushing, NY that do this. After you dial the 800 number, a voice comes one to request $0.50. It does this even when you dial the COCOT's 800 information number!! Seng-Poh Lee [Moderator's Note: I think it is against the rules to charge anything for an 800 call (to the caller) but before I say that maybe there should be some research; after all, many hotels take on surcharges for 800 calls. If they can, the COCOTS can't be stopped from doing it. PAT] ------------------------------ From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) Subject: Re: Incident at a COCOT Date: 18 Jul 1993 13:53:59 GMT Organization: University of Southern Mississippi In article our Moderator notes: > [Moderator's Note: It *is* required by law. Anytime a COCOT is > operating illegally you should make an attempt to contact the operator > if the operator's name is on the phone (sometimes it is). Let them > know the phone is out of compliance and 'as a courtesy to help them so > they won't get other complaints' you will be taking it out of service > so that coins cannot be deposited 'accidentally' by unsuspecting users. Is this a US Federal law or a State-by-State thing. A couple of years back I called our State's PSC to complain about COCOTs blocking 800 and 950 calls and was told that they were not required to pass 800 numbers for free, only 911 and emergency "0" calls. If you have a reference to a Federal regulation that requires COCOTs to handle 800 calls for free I would like to have the "chaper and verse" when I tell the COCOT's operator what sleeze bags they really are. Donald R. Newcomb University of Southern Mississippi dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu dnewcomb@falcon.st.usm.edu [Moderator's Note: Refer them to Federal Communications Commission rulings on the topic. Someone will look up the 'chapter and verse' and report it here, I'm sure. PAT] ------------------------------ From: donh@rahul.net (Don Hackler) Subject: Re: Incident at a COCOT Organization: a2i network Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 19:50:02 GMT In jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) writes: [ text about cocot problems deleted ] then Pat noted: >[Moderator's Note: COCOTS cannot legally block calls to 800 numbers. >If they want to charge you $1.70 for a local call, that is their >business, but they cannot deny access freely to 800 numbers or the >10xxx carrier of your choice, nor can they legally block 950. When >this topic came up here a couple years ago, someone devised a gummy >sticker which said "PHONE OUT OF COMPLIANCE - DO NOT USE". The idea >was to put this sticker across the coin slot to prevent others from >losing their money; the same courtesy you would like to be shown on a >mechanical coin operated device that was out of order to keep you from >losing your money. The sticker had little boxes to check as to what >was wrong (pricing on calls, denial of other calls, etc) and it went >on to say the phone would be out of service until further notice and >that it would be 'audited periodically for compliance before being >returned to service ...'. Of course its up to the 'auditor' to visit >the location every day or two and make sure the coin slot is still >blocked, replacing the sticker as needed. :) Don't vandalize the >phone! That is illegal. It is *not* illegal to warn other consumers >that a coin operated device is not functioning properly. PAT] Sounds like another fund-raising opportunity for you, Pat. Print up some very official looking stickers as described above, include check boxes for all of the likely COCOT gotchas (including not accepting incoming calls or disabled ringers, a serious problem for us pager-bound folks) and sell'em to us for a nominal fee. Then Carol Springs commented: >If you're lucky, the noncompliant phone will at least have the > correct FCC address posted on it to report the violation. (I wonder > what the percentage is of COCOTs that actually list this address -- > especially if someone might be tempted to use it?) I copied the > following from a COCOT at a Pancake Chef near Sea-Tac Airport: > FCC / Common Carrier Bureau > Enforcement Division > 2025 M Street N.W. > Washington, DC 20554 While you're at the printer, Pat, have some postcards printed up with the FCC address on it and a check box system for the complaints, along with space to fill in the offending COCOT information, date, time, etc. This way, the problems are spelled out in the proper FCC jargon for ease and speed of followup. Maybe we can collectively raise enough of a stink to help prod the worst offenders into fixing their systems. Don Hackler donh@shakala.com or donh@rahul.net [Moderator's Note: Actually, the stickers are available already I think for anyone to print out. Look in the Telecom Archives for the file on this; pull the files which begin with 'cocot'. The archives is accessible using anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu. Nice idea though; you think I should sell those too? :) PAT] ------------------------------ Subject: Why Can't I Call 800 Numbers Internationally? From: uttsbbs!laurence.chiu@PacBell.COM (Laurence Chiu) Date: 18 Jul 93 23:55:00 GMT Organization: The Transfer Station BBS, Danville, CA - 510-837-4610/837-5591 Reply-To: uttsbbs!laurence.chiu@PacBell.COM (Laurence Chiu) In an article, Miguel Cruz said: > Often I see ads in US magazines and newspapers where only 800 numbers > are provided. Near as I can tell, there is NO WAY whatsoever to call > these numbers from Australia. Why is this? I would be perfectly > willing to pay Sprint or MCI or AT&T or whomever normal international > rates, but their operators will not complete the calls for me. Best > luck I've had is with MCI, whose customer service people (after being > transferred to there from the MCI USA Direct number) will occasionally > become eventually exasperated with me and connect the call for free. > But this seems like a really silly limitation. Why won't, say, Sprint, > let me pay them the normal Australia -> USA rate and connect me to an > 800 number? Surely it doesn't cost them any more, probably it's > cheaper for them. > [Moderator's Note: The main reason is because the company which owns > the 800 number has told the carrier they do *not* want calls from > outside the USA for whatever reason. If the company is unable to sell > to you (customs, tax or legal considerations) or finds it uneconomical > to sell to you, they see no reason to talk to you and prefer not to, > atleast if they are paying for the call, or some portion of it. If > they find it in their best interest to pay for calls from international > points (or even split the charges with an international caller) they > will have their 800 number configured to do that. I'm not saying all > USA companies operate in a sensible manner in this regard (I've seen > some who sent advertisements overseas showing *only* their domestic > 800 number -- talk about a waste of advertising money!), but I am > saying that 800 service is designed to permit the receiver of the call > to receive (and pay for) only those calls he wants, regardless of how > stupid that decision may be. PAT] Just as a point of interest, when I lived in New Zealand I was able to obtain both AT&T and MCI calling cards without having a US local phone number. I just called their respective USA Direct and Call USA numbers and asked to be transferred to the appropriate department. MCI took my application over the phone (billing to a credit card) while AT&T could not do that but sent me an application form. I eventually received both cards. With those in hand I was now able to call any 800 number in the US, automatically via AT&T USA Direct if they owned the 800 number, else manually via MCI (they didn't care who owned the number). Rates were at standard USA Direct rates. I don't know how that would work now with 800 portability but I cannot see how it would be affected. As for companies not wishing to receive calls outside the USA/Canada, I think it is more a matter of the burden of having to set up specific toll-free numbers for each country they wish to received toll-free calls from, rather than a reluctance to do business with that country. This is probably not worth their while. In my company we have toll-free numbers from over a dozen countries around the world. Each of these is entirely different from each other and certainly not all start with 800. For example, our Switzerland number starts with 046, Netherland 06, Brazil 00081 etc. It's all up to the local PT&T how it's configured. Laurence Chiu A Kiwi now living in Walnut Creek, CA The Transfer Station BBS (510) 837-4610 & 837-5591 (V.32bis both lines) Danville, California, USA. 1.5 GIG Files & FREE public Internet Access ------------------------------ From: roeber@vxcrna.cern.ch (Frederick Roeber) Subject: Re: Why Can't I Call 800 Numbers Internationally? Reply-To: roeber@cern.ch Organization: CERN -- European Organization for Nuclear Research Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 11:52:39 GMT To article , Our Moderator appended: > [Moderator's Note: The main reason is because the company which owns > the 800 number has told the carrier they do *not* want calls from > outside the USA for whatever reason. I don't think so. I deal with companies which very much do want my business, and have given me normal American numbers which I can call collect. They'd love it if I could call their 800 number. If I call one of the "USA Direct"-type services (AT&T, MCI, and Sprint all serve FR and CH), that service will happily connect me to an 800 number, if it's one of theirs. If it's not theirs, AT&T at least will try very hard to obtain a POTS number they will then call collect on. When this fails, sometimes the agent will tell me what company does serve that 800 number (which I think is awfully nice of them). Every company I've tried calling this way has accepted collect charges from overseas. (The only problem is that often 800 numbers are answered by machine.) I think the main reason it's impossible is that the local PTTs want their cut of the call, and there's no mechanism by which they would get paid by the American company. It's perfectly possible for a (non-droid) operator here to call an 800 number, but in PTTspeak, "We won't let you" is pronounced "It's impossible." The European PTTs are slowly moving towards some sort of reverse billing, probably at the behest of EC types. (Supposedly, at some designated point in the future the EC PTTs will be thrown into competition with each other.) I've seen ads on British TV for numbers in +44 which "should not cost more than a local call" from abroad. > (I've seen some who sent advertisements overseas showing *only* > their domestic 800 number -- talk about a waste of advertising > money!), I think these disprove your claim above -- if they're advertising their 800 number overseas, they must want their overseas clients to be able to call them toll-free: they wouldn't then turn around and specifically ask their carrier not to accept international calls. Frederick. [Moderator's Note: No, not at all. First off, there are mechanisms in place to pay the PTTs for reverse charge calls to the USA. It happens all the time. Second, there are toll free dialing codes in lots of countries where some sub-set of the range of numbers will reach USA points, just as we have a prefix or two in the 800 range of numbers which connect to international points. Third, a toll-free number printed in its USA style (800-xxx-xxxx) is totally useless to someone in another country regardless of what the subscriber wants or the calling party wants. The advertisement has to say 0800 (in the UK as an example) or however the PTT *in that country* designates toll free numbers. There is *no technical problem whatsoever* with international use of reverse charge '800 style' calling. There may or may not be some greed on the part of the PTT's but there is *no problem whatsoever* with them getting paid for their portion of the call. The problem is exclusively with USA owners of 800 numbers not wanting to receive calls they have to pay for from international points at a higher cost than domestic calls. The problem is also with USA owners of 800 numbers who *would* be willing to accept such calls but are ignorant of the fact that it can be arranged very simply with their 800 carrier. The problem is also with advertising agencies who hire dumb people to work for them who think the sun and moon revolve around the United States and are too ignorant to know that 800-xxx-xxxx is totally useless to a European reader unless a xxx-xxxx is included in the ad or at the least a +1-ACC-xxx-xxxx number is given. It has nothing to do with telcos. Telcos love making money. Telcos would put a toll free 800 number on the moon if they thought someone was there to accept the charges. Many American companies see no need to advertise in places they deem it unprofitable to sell their stuff, or where they cannot sell due to government laws or whatever. They don't have 800 numbers for social call use by employees. 800 calls are *expensive* calls. I can't make their business judgments for them, but leave telco out of it! The general unailability of international toll free calling is a combination of ignorance (that it is available) and business decisions. Nothing more or less. Inter-telco settlements are doing fine, thank you. All except between Russia and Georgia that is! See an earlier issue of the Digest today if you miss the significance of this comment. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 19:56 EDT From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Subject: Re: Why Can't I Call 800 Numbers Internationally? Organization: I.E.C.C. > Often I see ads in US magazines and newspapers where only 800 numbers > are provided. Near as I can tell, there is NO WAY whatsoever to call > these numbers from Australia. Why is this? ... > [Moderator's Note: The main reason is because the company which owns > the 800 number has told the carrier they do *not* want calls from > outside the USA for whatever reason. ... More likely the company's phone service was arranged by dimwits to whom it never occured that someone outside the U.S. might be interested in what they sell, or don't realize that you can't call most 800 numbers from outside the U.S. The U.S. domestic market is large enough that most small businesses don't even consider the possibility of international orders. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl [Moderator's Note: Thank you John. Please readers, let's not have this massive conspiracy by telcos world-wide to refuse connections because they can't share the loot. Of course they can and do. But dimwits rule in the USA. Always have, always will. Remember that when you preface any discussion about international phone service. PAT] ------------------------------ From: Dirk Vanoucek Subject: Re: Why Can't I Call 800 Numbers Internationally? Date: 18 Jul 1993 21:51:39 GMT Organization: CCG Music Production Reply-To: Dirk Vanoucek But there should be the following possibility: Get an AT+T Calling Card (the card is free), Dial into the AT+T Carrier which is the number 0014-881-011 in Australia. You can do the whole call operator assisted or from a touch tone phone. (In some countries you have to go through the operator). Maybe such cards are offered by other companies, too. I am German and got such a card from AT+T and it would work in Australia, so why not for the Australians? You need a major credit card to get a calling card. Dirk Vanoucek (NeXT)-E-mail: dirk@music.en.open.de [Moderator's Note: Don't complicate this discussion. The arrangement you suggest *is* possible now. All the telcos will issue Calling Cards to people who are willing to pay via conventional credit cards such as VISA, MC, AMEX or EUROCARD. Why, I'll even open a Telepassport account for anyone who agrees to let me charge their bank account for it from time to time, even if my contract to use the EFT network does cause 'special concern' to California Cowboys and their bankers. :) PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #484 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa19377; 19 Jul 93 5:20 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA15864 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 02:38:54 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA09059 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 02:38:01 -0500 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 02:38:01 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307190738.AA09059@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #485 TELECOM Digest Mon, 19 Jul 93 02:38:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 485 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: Step-by-Step Offices (Lee S. Parks) Re: Step-by-Step Offices (Carl Oppedahl) Re: Is CIS Blocking Internet? (Doug Sewell) Re: Is CIS Blocking Internet? (J. Philip Miller) Re: MCI Outage (R. Kevin Oberman) Re: MCI Outage (Tad Cook) Re: MCI Outage (Marshall Levin) Re: MCI Outage (David G. Lewis) Re: GSM Comes to New Zealand (Laurence Chiu) Re: GSM Security (Juha Nurmi) Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? (Christian Weisgerber) Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? (Collin Forbes) Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? (Pat Turner) ---------------------- TELECOM Digest is an e-journal devoted mostly -- but not exclusively -- to discussions on voice telephony. The Digest is a not-for-profit public service published frequently by Patrick Townson Associates. PTA markets a no-surcharge telephone calling card and a no monthly fee 800 service. In addition, we are resellers of AT&T's Software Defined Network. For a detailed discussion of our services, write and ask for the file 'products'. The Digest is delivered at no charge by email to qualified subscribers on any electronic mail service connected to the Internet. To join the mail- ing list, write and tell us how you qualify: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu. All article submissions MUST be sent to our email address: telecom@eecs. nwu.edu -- NOT as replies to comp.dcom.telecom. Back issues and numerous other telephone-related files of interest are available from the Telecom Archives, using anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu. Login anonymous, then 'cd telecom-archives'. At the present time, the Digest is also ported to Usenet at the request of many readers there, where it is known as 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Use of the Digest does not require the use of our products and services. The two are separate. All articles are the responsibility of the individual authors. Organi- zations listed, if any, are for identification purposes only. The Digest is compilation-copyrighted, 1993. **DO NOT** cross-post articles between the Digest and other Usenet or alt newsgroups. Do not compile mailing lists from the net-addresses appearing herein. Send tithes and love offerings to PO Box 1570, Chicago, IL 60690. :) Phone: 312-465-2700. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lsp@panix.com (Lee S. Parks) Subject: Re: Step-by-Step Offices Date: 18 Jul 1993 14:57:06 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC In tad@ssc.com (Tad Cook) writes: > How could this HUGE exchange, with a potential capacity of perhaps > 460,000 lines, in area with probably more phones per acre than > anywhere else in the country, be served by an old stepper? Or is > there more than one switch in that building? Well, part of the answer is that all of these exchanges aren't served by the same switch. For example, code 212-902 is served by something referred to as the Broad Street DS0. Try dialing 212-902-9901. lee (lsp@athena.mit.edu) ------------------------------ From: oppedahl@panix.com (Carl Oppedahl) Subject: Re: Step-by-Step Offices Date: 18 Jul 1993 14:00:35 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC In deej@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (david.g.lewis) writes: > There is almost certainly more than one switch in the building; I > wouldn't be surprised if there were three or more. If memory serves, > the NYTel Broad Street and West Street COs between them serve all of > lower Manhattan. With the phone density in that part of the world, as > you allude to, there's no way only two switches would have enough > capacity. Yes, and part of why we know this must be true is that the whole building did not get Equal Access at once -- groups of prefixes got them over a period of conversion dates. Carl Oppedahl AA2KW (patent lawyer) 1992 Commerce Street #309 Yorktown Heights, NY 10598-4412 voice 212-777-1330 fax 212-777-1913 ------------------------------ From: doug@cc.ysu.edu (Doug Sewell) Subject: Re: Is CIS Blocking Internet? Date: 18 Jul 1993 15:13:46 GMT Organization: Youngstown State University > [Moderator's Note: No one at CIS is 'bouncing your mail' or blocking > you from reaching anything. CIS does one thing with mail for the > Internet or other networks connected through it: they hand it off to > the gateway they use in Ohio. They take incoming mail to subscribers > at the same gateway and distribute it. They don't personally route > mail anywhere; just hand it to the gateway they use. For a long time, this used to be true -- a slow, clunky gateway was established between Ohio State CIS dept and Compu$erve, using Compu$erve B protocol to transmit mail (if recollection of what Karl Kleinpaste once posted is right). Cis.ohio-state.edu was the MX exchanger for the compuserve.com domain. Since that time, Compu$erve has put in their own internet hosts in Columbus, connected to AlterNet (according to traceroute). I would imagine that e-net packets from Ohio State now go via OARNET, to NSFNET, to the AlterNet gateway, to CIS, rather than "down the street" in a UUCP-ish fashion. Their internet e-mail hosts were having trouble earlier this week, I had some mail queued up for several days. I can't speak for mail going from Compu$erve to the internet. Doug Sewell, Tech Support, Computer Center, Youngstown State University doug@cc.ysu.edu doug@ysub.bitnet !cc.ysu.edu!doug ------------------------------ From: phil@wubios.wustl.edu (J. Philip Miller) Subject: Re: Is CIS Blocking Internet? Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1993 13:05:29 -0500 (CDT) Alan Boritz <72446.461@CompuServe.COM> writes: > I recently had some difficulty sending Internet mail from my > Compuserve account to the fidonet.org domain. > [Moderator's Note: No one at CIS is 'bouncing your mail' or blocking > you from reaching anything. CIS does one thing with mail for the > Internet or other networks connected through it: they hand it off to > the gateway they use in Ohio. I cannot speak to current policies, but the folks at CIS in the past have been concerned about the "allowable use policy" (AUP) of the Internet. Using that as a rationale, they would block mail to MCIMail, for example. I never saw an explicit statement of the code they used for this blocking, but it might block everything to a .org domain address. J. Philip Miller, Professor, Division of Biostatistics, Box 8067 Washington University Medical School, St. Louis MO 63110 phil@wubios.WUstl.edu - (314) 362-3617 [362-2693(FAX)] [Moderator's Note: Except Phil, email between CIS <=> MCI Mail has never gone through the Internet so far as I know, although it could. CIS had a mail exchange in place with both MCI Mail and ATT Mail long before they had the Internet gateway. I guess it is only a matter of how the CIS customer chooses to address it: They can have mail go to MCI Mail 123-4567 or they can choose to have mail go to Internet: 0001234567@mcimail.com, for example. Likewise, MCI and ATT have a mail exchange in effect between themselves; both allow you to write to someone on the other service direct; but if you choose to do so you can address (from either service) 'user@(other service).com' and send it through using Internet as the in-between. Remember in the early days of ATT Mail public use, before the official gateway to Internet existed how some Internet users were writing to 'attmail!fax!xxx-xxx-xxxx@ att.com' or 'attmail!telex!xxxxx@att.com' and stiffing ATT Mail on the fax or telex charges because ATT Mail did not have recourse to anyone they could bill? Before the MCI Mail <=> ATT Mail gateway existed, users on one service would write users on the other service using Telex as the intermediary since both services had gateways to Telex, the same way they both have gateways to Internet now. PAT] ------------------------------ From: oberman@ptavv.llnl.gov Subject: Re: MCI Outage Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 23:19:40 GMT Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory In article system@garlic.sbs.com writes: > sorts of goodies. :) I asked what their transmission medium was. I was > shocked when the woman told me it was completely via microwave > transmission. So, they must've had a switching software glitch, hiccup > or bug. Don't be shocked. These sales 'droids don't have a clue about how these things work. I've heard all sorts of outrageous statements about this sort of thing. One told me that all of the "wires" were owned by the government and for that reason there was no quality difference between the companies. Don't remember if it was a Sprint or MCI 'droid. There is a reason the name of the company was formally changed from "Microwave Communications Incorporated" to "MCI Communications Inc." To the best of my knowledge (which may be slim), all or most of MCI's network is now fiber, just like Sprint and AT&T. R. Kevin Oberman Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Internet: koberman@llnl.gov (510) 422-6955 ------------------------------ Subject: Re: MCI Outage Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 14:54:00 PDT From: tad@ssc.com (Tad Cook) In Telecom Digest, I wrote: > Finally after many attempts at dialing 00 on my line that is served by > MCI, I reached an operator. I assumed there was a cable cut affecting > Seattle, but she said that the problem was network wide, probably > flood or weather related, and should be solved soon. This was about > 7:20 PM PDT Sunday night. I talked to someone at MCI today who said that the problem was in a fiber cable leased from Wiltel which was severed on Sunday in one of the flood areas along the Mississippi. He didn't know where it was, and said that it did not shut down the network, but did cause a lot of traffic problems and All Trunks Busy. tad@ssc.com (if it bounces, use 3288544@mcimail.com) Tad Cook | Packet Amateur Radio: | Home Phone: Seattle, WA | KT7H @ N7DUO.WA.USA.NA | 206-527-4089 ------------------------------ From: aa839@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Marshall Levin) Subject: Re: MCI Outage Date: 19 Jul 1993 03:26:16 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Reply-To: aa839@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Marshall Levin) In a previous article, dannyb@panix.com (Daniel Burstein) says: > This brings up the very real problem of how to get through to a > company when all you have is their "800" number. But that's a story > for another day. Just as one quick answer, though. In NYC, at least, > the phone book has a listing for a special NYTel assistance group > specifically to check into 1-800 outages. I think I once read somewhere that carriers often (perhaps even were required to, although that doesn't sound right) had 800 service provided by another carrier, for cases such as this. Am I crazy, or could MCI have minimal service provided by AT&T in case of a network outage? Marshall Levin Internet SIG Sysop aa839@cleveland.freenet.edu [Moderator's Note: Well now that you mention it, MCI is one of AT&T's biggest customers, and AT&T is one of MCI's biggest customers. They both lease a huge amount of equipment and facilities from each other, and both lease from or use a huge amount of equipment-in-common from local telcos-in-common. They have inter-company billing/chargeback accounts for each other, along with Sprint and all the other carriers. AT&T gives the customer one of those 'pay to the order of the Telephone Company' checks for twenty dollars; customer uses it to pay his phone bill; telco charges it back to MCI by accident because Droid #5782369 at telco got the encoding wrong. MCI sees it six months later and either re-charges it back to telco or maybe they send it directly to AT&T in a settlement with them. But that's okay because AT&T gets a lot of MCI customer credit vouchers the local telco screwed up on in processing the other direction. Their Public Relations, Sales and Legal Departments argue and fuss with each other continually; call each other liars in their adver- tising; tell lies about each other; sue each other; complain about each other to the Commission repeatedly; but in areas of mutual concern such as phone phraud and other security matters they are like the proverbial two peas in a pod. Meanwhile the worker-droids in the back-office hives just keep humming and buzzing as they complete their paperwork in quintuplicate and pass it around among themselves, bick- ering over who owes whom how much and for what and can't you get me a more legible microfilm copy if you expect me to spend a month looking for it on my microfilm so I can charge it back to you for the third time. PAT] ------------------------------ From: deej@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (david.g.lewis) Subject: Re: MCI Outage Organization: AT&T Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 13:50:01 GMT In article system@garlic.sbs.com writes: > tad@ssc.com (Tad Cook) writes: >> I have been getting All Trunks Busy, or sometimes no response at all, >> when dialing the 800 number for MCI Mail. I tried making a few >> regular toll calls via MCI, and get the same response. >> Finally after many attempts at dialing 00 on my line that is served by >> MCI, I reached an operator. I assumed there was a cable cut affecting >> Seattle, but she said that the problem was network wide, probably >> flood or weather related, and should be solved soon. This was about >> 7:20 PM PDT Sunday night. Does anyone else find something strange in this? Like, if it's flood or weather related, how can it be network-wide unless (a) MCI has some critical network components located sufficiently close together that a single weather-related incident (albeit one covering a wide area, like the Mississippi/Missouri River flooding) can affect all of them; or (b) the flooding has spread from the Rockies to the Appalachians ... > I find that kind of interesting. MCI called me to make their pitch > last night (Hey, I signed up for the freebie time and also with the > knowledge that AT&T will come back to me begging and offering me all > sorts of goodies. :) I asked what their transmission medium was. I was > shocked when the woman told me it was completely via microwave > transmission. I believe the woman was mistaken (or at least acting on *very* old data) -- MCI has moved a significant portion of their facilities to fiber, as have all of the first and second tier IXCs. David G Lewis AT&T Bell Laboratories david.g.lewis@att.com or !att!goofy!deej Switching & ISDN Implementation ------------------------------ Subject: Re: GSM Comes to New Zealand From: uttsbbs!laurence.chiu@PacBell.COM (Laurence Chiu) Date: 18 Jul 93 23:55:00 GMT Organization: The Transfer Station BBS, Danville, CA - 510-837-4610/837-5591 Reply-To: uttsbbs!laurence.chiu@PacBell.COM (Laurence Chiu) In a article, Ross Douglas Alexander said: > On the 11 of July BellSouth introduced GSM into New Zeland. I think > at this point it only covers the Auckland Metropolitan area (but don't > quote me on that). BellSouth is the second cellular carrier in NZ and > the third major telephone company. > Bell Atlantic and Ameritech own 49% of Telecom (it has a cellular > system). MCI has a stake in Clear (our second long distance carrier) > and BellSouth has how set up a second cellular system..... So did they solve the problem of someone with a phone connected to Telecom Cellular be able to call someone with a phone with Bell South. Last I heard there were all kinds of interconnect problems with this, mainly due to the intransigence of Telecom Cellular. Laurence Chiu The Transfer Station BBS (510) 837-4610 & 837-5591 (V.32bis both lines) Danville, California, USA. 1.5 GIG Files & FREE public Internet Access ------------------------------ From: jnurmi@tne01.tele.nokia.fi Subject: Re: GSM Security Date: 19 Jul 93 09:22:00 EET Organization: Nokia Telecommunications. In article , bruce@zuhause.MN.ORG (Bruce Albrecht) writes: > In , Vangelis Kontogiannis writes: >> What I would like to ask our (European) readers is, given the digital >> encryption in GSM, are fraud schemes of the type often mentioned in >> this list (see #435) possible? Any data on the subject? Remember, in >> GSM subscription data is recorded in a credit-card sized SIM >> (Subscriber Information Module) that plugs into the GSM phone; the >> subscriber is uniquely identified by his IMSI (International Mobile >> Subscriber Identity). SIM = Subscriber Identity Module ======== > As far as fraud is concerned, someone with enough knowledge of the GSM > standards might be able to make their own SIMs, but it probably > wouldn't be easy. They'd also have to know the proper encryption > algorithms, which are probably A3/A8 or a variant, in order to > convinced the network that the IMSI is valid. Knowing the algorithms A3 and A8 is not enough. These are not encryption algorithms, but A3 is an authentication algorithm and A8 a cipher key generating algorithm. A3 is used for authenticating the subscriber and A8 for generating cipher keys used to encrypt the radio path. Each subscriber has also an Individual Subscriber Authentication Key (Ki) stored both in the SIM and in a network element (Authentication Centre, AUC). GSM uses a random challenge authentication scheme in which the Ki is used both in the SIM and in the AUC. Thus, if someone would like to make a SIM of his own, he would have to enter his new Ki to the AUC in order convincing the network that the IMSI is valid. Since the access to the AUC is strictly restricted, this is practically impossible. Physically: Juha Nurmi Organization: Nokia Cellular Systems, Tampere FINLAND Email: juha.nurmi@ntc.nokia.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 22:48:18 +0200 From: naddy@mips.ruessel.sub.org (Christian Weisgerber) Reply-To: naddy@mips.ruessel.sub.org Subject: Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? In , is written: > [... lots of songs...] > In the interim, e.g. until we get some other nominations, I'll put in > my vote for one. Well, there's 9.5.N.A.S.T.Y by WASP. Although I personally like that song quite a lot, I'm afraid it doesn't match the musical preferences of most readers here, especially not that of our dear Moderator :-> Also it's not really about phones but the person behind the number. Considering that the European Community just declared the final break-up of any remaining national telecom monopolies for 1998, I'll go along with "The Day Bell System Died". Christian 'naddy' Weisgerber, Germany naddy@ruessel.sub.org ------------------------------ From: collinf@crow.csrv.uidaho.edu (Collin Forbes) Subject: Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? Date: 19 Jul 1993 04:38:47 GMT Organization: University of Idaho, Moscow, Idaho jgeorge@whiffer.mese.com wrote: > The German industrial group Kraftwerk has a song (from the Electric > Cafe CD) called "The Telephone Call". The melody and the rhythm lines > are made up of touch tones, busy signals, dialtones, intercept tones, > and a variety of international "The number you have reached ..." > recordings. Okay, so long as we speak of songs with sampled telephony, I'll tell you about Perry Botkin (from his new CD "Combines") and his song "Women who won't give you the time of day." Of course, it's mostly the recorded (female) voice that recites the time of day over the phone. Collin Forbes --- collinf@crow.csrv.uidaho.edu, min@cardboard.mocw.id.us ------------------------------ From: turner@Dixie.Com Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 21:54 EDT From: rsiatl!turner@rsiatl.UUCP Subject: Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? Paul Robinson writes: > Glenn Campbell's "Wichita Lineman" isn't too bad, but it's about the > worries of someone who has to fix the equipment; it doesn't touch on > people who _use_ phone service. Sorry, "Wichita Lineman" is about an electric lineman. Paul, you should know phone lines don't get overloaded, circuits do :-). That is unless they take a 13.2 kV line across the shield. Talk about power influence! A friend in the cable business used to complain after Alabama's "40 Hour Week" came out that there were no songs about telco craftspeople. Jim was particularly sensitive to this since a lot of people think that only telco employees work on telco lines. Anyway, I always thought Jim was right, until one day when I watched Jim go digging for a 100 pair PIC cable in an undisclosed location in rural Alabama first with a backhoe, then with a pick. All of a sudden we were greeted with a fountain of water ... Jim had hit a 6" Ductile Iron water line. Luckly the cable was under the water line. After that, I remembered a song that may have referred to telco types, and could just as easily refer to the aggravation of end users. See, there was this PSA playing on local radio stations done by one of the "One Call" utility location folks. It started out something like:" Billy Joe was a backhoe dynamo-Til the lights went out in Georgia" sung to the tune of the song by the same name. It was real cute, I wish I could remember the rest of it. Anyway, I thought it would be funny to rewrite it so Billy Joe cuts a Lightpack (TM-AT&T) cable and the phones go out in Georgia. Even though I checked with several radio stations. I was never able to get a copy. They seemed to discard it after playing it a few times. We even called a station and requested it, without any luck. I bet quite a few CDT readers could sympathize with this song. Pat Turner KB4GRZ FAA Telecommunications turner@dixie.com ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #485 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa21402; 19 Jul 93 6:21 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA06184 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 03:39:03 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA00557 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 03:38:02 -0500 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 03:38:02 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307190838.AA00557@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #486 TELECOM Digest Mon, 19 Jul 93 03:38:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 486 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson AT&T Press Release: TrueVoice (AT&T, Don Kimberlin via Dave Leibold) Re: TrueVoice vs. Modems (Roy M. Silvernail) Re: TrueVoice vs. Modems (Christian Weisgerber) Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice (Willie Smith) Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice (Harold Hallikainen) Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice (Bohdan Tashchuk) Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice (Stephen Friedl) Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice (Laurence Chiu) Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice (Don Hackler) AT&T TrueVoice Demo Line (John C. Fowler) AT&T TrueVoice (Monty Solomon) AT&T TrueVoice (Les Reeves) AT&T TrueVoice Enhances Sound Quality (Fred R. Goldstein) AT&T TrueVoice -- I Just Don't Get it! (Aaron Woolfson) AT&T TrueVoice Technology -- What is it? (Toby Nixon) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 00:35 EDT From: djcl@io.org (woody) Subject: AT&T Press Release: TrueVoice [Moderator's Note: I received over a hundred articles relating to TrueVoice, and in this issue of the Digest am presenting a sample of what came in. My thanks to everyone who wrote; if your comments about TrueVoice do not appear here, they won't be used. I've tried to go through also and weed out articles with have appeared in other telecom newsgroups in the past few days rather than make you read the same articles twice, but I'm sure some have slipped past. Again may I ask everyone: *please do not cross post to this newsgroup and other news groups.* Post where you please -- just not to both groups! PAT] [The following was posted to Fidonet by Don Kimberlin, and cross-posted here.] * Original Area: FCC * Original From: Don Kimberlin (1:250/701) * Original To : All (1:250/730) For decades, the basis for "good telephone quality" has been based upon mountains of Bell Labs research done in the 1930's, and "improvements" to the telephone network's transmission have been towards meeting that norm. Recently, AT&T announced a change in that, apparently adding some degree of speech processing, to increase the low frequency component of what gets delivered to your ear to create a perceived increase in loudness, while claiming the result is more natural-sounding. It's being touted by AT&T as "Truevoice." The following press release tells about it and gives an 800 number you can call for a demonstration. I found it to be an improvement, although your mileage may vary. Although it was also notable that the type of telephone one listens on has considerable effect on it. people like broadcasters and telemarketers may like the effect of AT&T's "Truevoice:" AT&T SOUND SURPASSES EXCELLENCE NEW SOUND QUALITY ENHANCEMENT FOR LONG-DISTANCE CALLS FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: TUESDAY, JULY 13, 1993 NEW YORK -- Domestic long-distance calls will soon sound clearer, closer and more natural than ever before. That's the word today from AT&T, which has just unveiled a new sound enhancement called AT&T TrueVoice(sm). Now, the company says, the network's already excellent sound quality is clearly the best of all major long-distance carriers. "AT&T TrueVoice does for the telecommunications industry what the digital compact disc did for the recording business," says Merrill Tutton, president of AT&T's consumer communications services unit. AT&T TrueVoice boosts the lower or bass end of the sound spectrum of long-distance calls while raising the overall sound level. Consumers can hear the difference for themselves today, by calling for a toll-free demonstration at 1-800-932-2000. That's 1-800-932-2000. Actual deployment of the enhancement in the AT&T network begins this September and continues, city by city, through the end of 1994. AT&T says this technical innovation will be available automatically to domestic consumers and businesses at no additional charge whenever they make calls on the AT&T public network within the U.S. and to Canada. # # # AT&T Innovations in Sound: A History From the telephone, to motion picture sound, to fiber-optic transmission and now AT&T TrueVoice(sm), AT&T has been at the forefront of sound innovation for well over a century. Here are some highlights: 1875 - Alexander Graham Bell discovers the principle of "undulating" (continuously variable) current, and with it sends speech sounds over his crude experimental telephone. 1876 (March 10) - Bell transmits the first intelligible speech over electrical wires: "Mr. Watson, come here, I want you." The telephone is born. 1880 - Bell demonstrates speech transmission over light beams instead of electricity. He calls his invention the "photophone." The concept would not prove practical for nearly a century. 1892 (Oct. 18) - AT&T inaugurates long-distance service between New York and Chicago, transmitting speech 950 miles over open copper wire lines. A five-minute call costs $9. (Current price is $1.15.) 1899-1900 - Dr. George Campbell of AT&T and Dr. Michael Pupin of Columbia University independently develop the theory and design of loading coils. By reducing attenuation (that is, by reducing signal weakening on electrical lines), loading coils increase the distance and intelligibility with which sound can be transmitted. Loading coils are installed on AT&T long-distance lines beginning in 1900. 1911 (May 11) - AT&T begins telephone service between New York and Denver. This is the limit speech can be transmitted using loading coils. 1912-1915 - AT&T's Dr. Harold Arnold uses the audion, the original vacuum tube developed by triode inventor Lee De Forest, to produce the first practical electrical amplifier. AT&T uses this to construct the first transcontinental telephone line. Commercial service begins on Jan. 25, 1915; the cost of a three-minute call is $20.70. (Current price is 75 cents.) 1915 (Oct. 25) - AT&T engineers accomplish the first transmission of speech across the Atlantic Ocean, via radio. H.R. Shreeve, at the Eiffel Tower in Paris, hears the words, "And now, Shreeve, good night," addressed to him by B.B. Webb at a transmitter in Arlington, Va. 1916 - AT&T demonstrates its pioneering public address system in field trials at Madison Square Garden in New York and the Velodrome in Newark, N.J. For the first time, large crowds can hear events and announcements. That same year, E.C. Wente of AT&T develops the condenser microphone, the first microphone with a flat frequency response suitable for music. It gains widespread commercial use in the 1920s. 1919-1924 - AT&T engineer Joseph Maxfield invents the first system for electrical recording of sound. AT&T licenses major record companies to use the new technology. Vastly improved recordings made with Maxfield's system reach consumers in 1925. 1926 (Aug. 6) - Warner Bros.' "Don Juan," the first commercially successful sound motion picture, opens in New York. The system used for recording, reproducing and amplifying the sound in synchronization with the picture was developed at AT&T. 1927 (Jan. 7) - Commercial trans-Atlantic telephone service begins via radiotelephone. The cost of a three-minute call is $75. (Today a direct-dialed three-minute call to France costs $3.83.) Trans-Pacific service follows in 1934. 1931 - AT&T Bell Laboratories develops the first high-fidelity, wide-range phonograph records. The Labs also make the world's first stereo recordings that same year. 1940 - Bell Labs designs an anechoic chamber -- an acoustically dead room -- for sound research at its new facility in Murray Hill, N.J. 1956 (Sept. 25) - The first trans-Atlantic telephone cable opens with a three-way call between officials of AT&T and the British and Canadian governments. This is the culmination of 25 years of research efforts at Bell Labs. The cable provides vastly higher sound quality and less interference than the radio telephone circuits it replaces. 1962 (July 10) - AT&T launches Telstar, the world's first active communications satellite. Telstar transmits the first satellite-relayed telephone calls and radio and television broadcast programs. 1977 - AT&T conducts its first field trial of fiber-optic transmission of telephone signals in downtown Chicago. The first commercial installation follows in 1979 in Trumbull, Conn., and the first major intercity fiber-optic route opens in 1983 between New York and Washington, D.C. 1988 (December) - TAT-8, the first trans-Atlantic undersea fiber-optic telephone cable, goes into service. The sound quality of calls via TAT-8 is indistinguishable from that of land-based calls. 1989 (April) - TPC-3, the first trans-Pacific fiber-optic cable, is opened, linking the United States with Japan via Hawaii and Guam. 1989 - AT&T introduces the 5000 series of cordless phones, the first cordless phones featuring sound quality rivaling corded phones. 1993 (July 13) - AT&T introduces AT&T TrueVoice. With this technological innovation, the AT&T network's already excellent sound quality clearly is the best of all major long-distance carriers. # # # ------------------------------ Subject: Re: TrueVoice vs. Modems From: roy@sendai.cybrspc.mn.org (Roy M. Silvernail) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1993 21:25:05 CST Organization: The Villa CyberSpace, executive headquarters In comp.dcom.telecom, rhyre@bears.att.com writes: [about AT&T's TrueVoice] > Since the network is digital, I would suspect this is all being done > in software, somewhere, somehow. That's a LOT of CPU cycles for 100+ > million calls/day. I'd guess not. The network is indeed digital, so the analog transition is made at either end. In between, the signal is handled by Digital Signal Processing (DSP) chips. TrueVoice is simply equalization. It sounds very much like the typical "loudness compensation" that you find on audio gear. An equalization curve is nothing more than an algorithm to a DSP system, so the processing is really being done in hardware. DSP cycles don't count against the CPU budget. On the subject of DSP, has anyone seen the SoftModem yet? It's based on a DSP chipset from Analog Devices, and is loaded with its algorithms at startup. After two days on my UUCP link, the only problems I have is with Telebits. I suspect that's true of most any v.32bis/v.42bis modem. It's a nice little unit. Roy M. Silvernail roy@sendai.cybrspc.mn.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 23:42:48 +0200 From: naddy@mips.ruessel.sub.org (Christian Weisgerber) Reply-To: naddy@mips.ruessel.sub.org Subject: Re: TrueVoice vs. Modems > Here`s what I've seen written about how TrueVoice works. How will > data calls be affected? (Hopefully, the same modem carrier tones that > turn off echo supressors will also disable the TrueVoice feature.) That's reasonable to expect, I guess. (BTW, it's the answer tones, not the carrier itself.) > Through a patented technical innovation developed by AT&T Bell > Laboratories, AT&T TrueVoice makes long- distance calls sound clearer, > closer and more natural by boosting the lower, or bass, end of the > calls' sound spectrum while raising their overall sound level. If boosting the bass is all to it I don't see how it should cause modems to fail. Modems have to cope with similar and worse distortions when operating over analog networks. I can't see how they're going to raise "overall sound level" without sacrificing dynamics[right word?] (which would certainly hurt modems but negatively figure in human perception, too). > Since the network is digital, I would suspect this is all being done > in software, somewhere, somehow. That's a LOT of CPU cycles for 100+ > million calls/day. Hmm. Amplifying a certain frequency band is trivial with DSPs. Sounds like an expensive upgrade for a whole LD network, though. Above it says they got a patent, so I'd assume it to be something else than common DSP filtering. Christian 'naddy' Weisgerber, Germany naddy@ruessel.sub.org ------------------------------ From: wpns@newshost.pictel.com (Willie Smith) Subject: Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice Organization: PictureTel Corporation Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 19:52:33 GMT In article beyonet!bob@vu-vlsi.vill.edu writes: > If anyone wants to hear for themselves, the demo is at 1-800-932-2000. I called, they gave a little spiel, said "In order for us to know where you are calling from, please enter your home phone number." Figuring AT&T probably has ANI, I typed nothing, got a customer 'service' rep who was adamant that they had no idea where I was calling from, so I hung up on him. I called back, told the robot the information it just _had_ to have, and couldn't tell much difference except that "TrueVoice(SM) is louder. I thought it was interesting that "Soon" and "in the coming months" is defined in the small print at the bottom of this ad as being "Available nationwide by December 1994". Willie Smith wpns@pictel.com N1JBJ@amsat.org ------------------------------ From: hhallika@tuba.calpoly.edu (Harold Hallikainen) Subject: Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 20:20:30 GMT In article beyonet!bob@vu-vlsi.vill.edu writes: > What's the deal behind this new AT&T "feature" that is supposed to be > added to AT&T's long distance calls? Supposedly, it enhances the > sound quality on LD calls. To me, it just sounds like the volume was > increased with a little low-frequency added. I agree. I just tried the demo. The rep I spoke with said that they were indeed adding at the low end and "getting rid of the tinniness", possibly dropping some of the high end. Of course, broadcasters have been using "frequency extenders" that give up a little of the high end and extend the low end for years now. I wonder, though, what AT&T can do once their handed a digitized voice from the local CO. It seems that if there is any low end roll off, it would be done in a filter prior to the A/D at the CO. Back when frequency division multiplexing was more common (along with the monkey chatter in the background on long distance calls), it made sense to drop the low end (below 300 Hz) to make carrier suppression and lower sideband suppression easier. With PCM, is there any reason to do much filtering at the low end, other than, perhaps a notch at 60 Hz (50 Hz for Europe) to get rid of power line hum. Is AT&T boosting the low end (thru DSP?) to try to compensate for filters at the CO? If so, it seems like a pretty round about way of dealing with the problem. Also, what's this do for modems, etc. Harold ------------------------------ From: zeke@fasttech.com (Bohdan Tashchuk) Subject: Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice Organization: Fast Technology --- Beaverton, OR Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 16:41:51 GMT In beyonet!olwejo!bob@uunet.UU.NET (Bob Kupiec) writes: > What's the deal behind this new AT&T "feature" that is supposed to be > added to AT&T's long distance calls? I couldn't resist calling. What was most interesting about the demo is that it's quite obviously a way to obtain a database of potential customers. To this end they make you key in your calling number. I guess they either don't trust their own ANI or they want to make sure they've got you even if you're behind a PBX. Bohdan [Moderator's Note: If it were 'quite obviously a way to obtain a database of potential customers' why wouldn't they just use the ANI generated on each call? Do you really think AT&T needs a database of potential customers? Don't you think they have one already? PAT] ------------------------------ From: friedl@mtndew.Tustin.CA.US (Stephen Friedl) Subject: Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice Date: 18 Jul 93 14:54:13 GMT Organization: Software Consulting, Tustin, CA The demo is interesting. They have a welcome message by someone who sounds like (and may be) Tom Sellick, then they prepare you for the demo. The interesting thing -- they ask for your phone number via the keypad and they confirm it. Then they launch off into the demo where you can hit one or two to toggle between MudVoice and TruVoice, and sure enough, you get extra on the low-end. Why would they be asking for a phone number? I cannot believe that AT&T's not getting ANI for the call. Stephen J Friedl | Software Consultant | Tustin, CA | +1 714 544-6561 3B2-kind-of-guy | I speak for me ONLY | KA8CMY | uunet!mtndew!friedl ------------------------------ Subject: Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice From: uttsbbs!laurence.chiu@PacBell.COM (Laurence Chiu) Date: 18 Jul 93 23:55:00 GMT Organization: The Transfer Station BBS, Danville, CA - 510-837-4610/837-5591 Reply-To: uttsbbs!laurence.chiu@PacBell.COM (Laurence Chiu) > Supposedly, it enhances the sound quality on LD calls. To me, it > just sounds like the volume was increased with a little low-frequency > added. I tried it out and had the same impression. My question is, aren't you still going to be limited by the bandwidth in your local loop? Or is the local loop bandwidth not a problem but LD loops were always degrading the signal and Truevoice is a way of reducing this. Laurence Chiu The Transfer Station BBS (510) 837-4610 & 837-5591 (V.32bis both lines) Danville, California, USA. 1.5 GIG Files & FREE public Internet Access ------------------------------ From: donh@rahul.net (Don Hackler) Subject: Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice Organization: a2i network Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 20:52:04 GMT Cute demo ... It was either a bit of EQ, like suggested, or they are playing some games with frequency-shifting like some of the broadcast remote units like Comrex. They might me shifting the audio spectrum up, say, 150 or 200 hertz at the originating site, and then shifting it back to it's original location at the receiving site. You lose a bit of the 'high' end of the signal, but the overall effect is a more natural sound. Or they are using extra bandwidth to drag along some low frequency information. Either of these schemes would require that the first and last miles of your local carrier aren't limiting the bandwidth of the audio too much. A couple of amusing notes about the demo: The demo asked me to punch in my phone number! (Why wouldn't they use ANI?) Once the demo got to the comparison phase, they were using a professional male announcer's voice, instead of the female voice that was used occasionally in the introduction and instruction phase of the demo. I suspect the effect of the 'feature' would have been negligible on her. This 'feature' is a lot more hype than substance. If you wern't able to to an A/B comparison, you wouldn't notice it was there. Don Hackler donh@shakala.com or donh@rahul.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 03:17 GMT From: John C. Fowler <0003513813@mcimail.com> Subject: AT&T True Voice Demo Line I just saw an advertisement for AT&T True Voice that gave a number for demonstration purposes, so I thought I'd pass it along in case anyone was curious. Call 1-800-932-2000 from a touch-tone phone. Note that they do request you enter your phone number before the demo (not sure why they don't just use ANI). One thing I haven't seen in the commercials or heard on the demo line: once implemented, will this new service be smart enough to turn itself off when it senses a data call? John C. Fowler, 3513813@mcimail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 16:26:08 -0400 From: Monty Solomon Subject: AT&T TrueVoice You can call 800 932 2000 for a demonstration of AT&T TrueVoice. Be prepared to listen to some AT&T promotional garbage and to provide your phone number. You can provide up to a one-minute voice response comment after listening to the demonstration and can then optionally speak with an AT&T representative to switch your long distance service or to get additional information. It is supposed to enhance the sound quality of AT&T long distance calls and is supposed to be available nationwide by the end of 1994. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 19:06:41 -0400 (EDT) From: LESREEVES@delphi.com Subject: AT&T True Voice Why do they ask for your number? It would be interesting to see how many non-AT&T long distance customers get telemarketed or surveyed as a result of calling this thing! [Moderator's Note: I don't think they ask for your number so they can sic a telemarketer on you. After all, if they relied on ANI they would still have to compare their own records with the ANI to see who was a customer already and who was not. Has it occurred to anyone they might be listening to *your* touchtones and then doing a little last minute adjustment on their end (regards the sound quality based on what the circuit is like between you and them) before they begin the demo? PAT] ------------------------------ From: goldstein@isdnip.lkg.dec.com (Fred R. Goldstein) Subject: Re: AT&T TrueVoice Enhances Sound Quality Reply-To: goldstein@carafe.tay2.dec.com Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 03:36:00 GMT In article LESREEVES@delphi.com writes: > AT&T has annouced "Truevoice", an enhancement to it's switched voice > network service. > Truevoice is claimed to provide more realistic voice quality by > extending low-frequency response and increasing signal levels. > Truevoice will be deployed in AT&T's network by September,and > available to all customers. I don't know just what TrueVoice actually is. MCI and Sprint have networks that are so far as I know 100% digital and uncompressed within the US. AT&T doesn't say that they're uncompressed digital. You can't get any better than that, within the backbone: The bits in are the bits out, and the local CO or even telephone set generates the bits. If AT&T is doing digital signal processing to make voice "sound" better, then they are presumably munging the bits. This has a couple of consequences. Modems and fax machines will be unhappy. And anybody trying to run 56 kbps data over the speech network will be SOL. They don't like to tell you (well, Sprint does) that you don't need to use a premium-priced Switched 56 service. With Sprint, voice = data, and you just have to preface calls with the echo canceller cancellation tone (which is described, oddly enough, somewhere in CCITT V.25). With MCI, they say there's a conditioned 56k data network, and it's a separate network, but the price is the same. With AT&T, it's a separate 56k data network, and it costs more than twice the voice rate. Perhaps TrueVoice is a way to guarantee that AT&T customers don't do what Sprint says to do (which usually works on AT&T). I hope I'm wrong -- anybody from "T" there with the answer? Fred R. Goldstein goldstein@carafe.tay2.dec.com Senior Lecturer: "Telecommunications Transmission Techniques" Northeastern University Opinions are mine alone; sharing requires permission ------------------------------ From: awoolfso@uop.edu (Aaron Woolfson) Subject: AT&T TrueVoice -- I Just Don't Get it! Date: 18 Jul 1993 16:31:38 -0700 Organization: University of the Pacific I understand the concept behind TrueVoice, but there are just a few things I don't understand. The demonstration that I just called ... is it all done at their end? I mean, does AT&T at their switching test center where the demonstration is located on some RAM chip somewhere within a voice processing board boost the bass and increase the volume there, or is it done with special chips at our switch's end? The thing I don't understand is this: The CODECS within the phone system all work on the same similar 64kbit/second format, by which my voice is converted to the digital signals by a CODEC chip using either mu-law or a-law processing. Then, the across the country, the CODEC at the other end turns my digital stream back into audiable voice (analog). So, when I call the demonstration number using my telephone, they must do something to the signal before it EVEN enters the phone network, so that it can be converted at Central Office into analog format and sound that way. I don't think that AT&T has their own CODEC standards that work on different laws in every central office across the united states. I am willing to bet that ALL voice could sound like that if 1) we took a digital PCM filter, added a bit every frame or two, deleted a little bit here and there, and increased the amplitude bits of the signal. There you have it -- Truevoice. -- nothing that special or technological about it. ------------------------------ From: tnixon@microsoft.com (Toby Nixon) Subject: AT&T TrueVoice Technology -- What is it? Date: 18 Jul 93 23:50:12 GMT Organization: Microsoft Corporation, Redmond WA, USA I called the TrueVoice demo line last night, and can definitely hear a difference -- although most of the difference appears to be higher volume. Does anyone have the inside scoop on exactly what is involved in this technology? An improved voice coding technique on the digital paths? What? Toby ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #486 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa22452; 19 Jul 93 6:49 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA03925 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 04:13:02 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA28175 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 04:11:22 -0500 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 04:11:22 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307190911.AA28175@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #487 TELECOM Digest Mon, 19 Jul 93 04:11:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 487 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: New England/Mid Atlantic Paging (Brian T. Vita) Re: New England/Mid Atlantic Paging (Justin Greene) Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? (Reid R. Buyaky) Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? (Monty Solomon) Re: White House Orders No-Bid Phone System (Tarl Neustaedter) Re: White House Orders No Bid Phone System (Heath Troy Roberts) Re: Followup on Introduction to WilTel (Russ McGuire) WIL-TEL Noted on a COCOT (Carl Moore) Re: Kerberos on Cellular Telephones (Andrew Marc Greene) Re: Kerberos on Cellular Telephones (Dick Rawson) Re: Need Information on High-Performance Networks (Dub Dublin) Re: Need Information on High-Performance Networks (Rubin Dhillon) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 93 00:00:41 EDT From: Brian T. Vita <70702.2233@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: New England/Mid Atlantic Paging > I'd like to get a NYC number (917 I guess, although Westchester/914 > would be good too), annd have numeric paging from DC to Boston, AND > Western Mass, Vermont, NH, and eastern PA (Allentown, Lancaster, as > far west as Harrisburg.) Ah, the impossible dream. I have a service territory from Quebec to Virginia and I've been looking for the same for the last ten years. After trying virtually every major paging company here are my results. 1. You DO NOT want a national paging company like SKYTEL. Although they provide excellent service in the major cities, their coverage drops dramaticly outside the city limits. That is, for the most part you do not get rural coverage. 2. Most of the decent wide area paging systems are in the 900Mhz band. 3. Mobilecomm offers regional service that covers you from Concord NH to Washington DC/Northern VA. I've received pages as far inland as Johnstown NY and Allentown PA. Coverage is fairly consistant down the coast. I presently use them with Motorola Advisor (alpha) pagers and for the most part am quite happy. 4. PageNet offers regional service from Manchester NH to Washington DC. Coverage is not as blanketed as Mobilecomm and tends to hug the coast. I don't get much further west than Springfield, MA. 5. Metromedia, last I heard, was up for sale. I had a pager from them to cover VT/NH. When I called to complain that their VT coverage was spotty, the customer service drone explained to me that they had been disassembling the VT system for the last year. This was two months after I had bought the beeper from them. Customer service poor. Prices high. 6. Many companies, such as Beeper Marketing, are resellers of other people's airtime. They buy blocks of numbers from one of the aforementioned and act like they have thier own towers. Generally a real pain in the a** when you have a technical problems as they have to call their provider to resolve it. 7. None of the aforementioned offer any real coverage in NH/VT other than what I noted. There are some local companies, such as Summit Communications that cover NH fairly well but they don't offer much else. 8. The only company that I have found that offers any degree of reliable coverage in VT is Central VT Communications in Rutland. Their chief tech Tito is by far one of the most helpful people that I've run into in this industry. Some general notes when searching: 1. Most beeper company sales people know less than you do about the product that they are offering. They are under tremendous pressure to fulfill sales quotas and the job turnover is high. Take whatever they say with a grain of salt. Get all prices spelled out in writing and leave no blank prices on the contract. Make sure you know how many pages are included in your monthly fee and how much they charge for overcalls. Ask to see a coverage map, not a verbal description. 2. National paging companies are good for businessmen who travel to major metropolitan areas. They will not reach you in Morrisville VT. If you are going to be travelling in suburban or rural areas go with a regional company. 3. Lower frequency pagers get good range at the expense of being able to penetrate obstructions. Metromedia's now defunct VT network was somewhere around 46.23 Mhz. Got them lots of mileage off of a single tower but couldn't get into a building worth a damn. Higher frequencies require more towers to get good coverage but will reach you inside of an elevator in the basement of a steel frame building! (Of course, your actual mileage will vary ...) 4. Look into alphanumeric pagers. They can now generally be had for about $5/$10 more per month than a display (numeric) pager. Most paging companies have a deal with a dispatch office where they will type out (alpha page) your important messages for an additional $.50/dispatch. Inforad has a program that runs on a Mac (what I use), PC or Windows that allows you to use any modem equipped PC as a dispatch terminal. We use this and have become so impressed with it that we sell it to our telecom customers. An 80 character alpha message can say much more than a nameless phone number. Alpha pagers can also operate like a display pager where the caller dials a number, punches in their phone number and hangs up. You get the best of both worlds. 5. Get a pager with the vibe option. It is far more pleasant for those around you in a restaurant or theatre not to hear the damn beep/beep. 6. Give consideration to leasing rather than buying a beeper. Yep, I said that! Two reasons: A. My beepers usually last a year to 18 months before they start acting like they are possessed. If they own it, its their problem. B. You suddenly find that beeper company B gives you better coverage/ service that company A. If you bought the pager from A, you're stuck on their frequency. 7. Avoid beepers with NICADS. They are more of a pain in the butt than they are worth. I hope this is helpful. If you have any specific questions, I'll be glad to respond. I do not work for any paging company and my only contact with any of the companies named was as a customer. Brian T. Vita CSS, Inc. BVita@Bix.com or CI$70702,2233 ------------------------------ From: jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) Subject: Re: New England/Mid Atlantic Paging Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 16:41:37 GMT > I'd like to get a NYC number (917 I guess, although Westchester/914 > would be good too), annd have numeric paging from DC to Boston, AND > Western Mass, Vermont, NH, and eastern PA (Allentown, Lancaster, as > far west as Harrisburg.) > Do I need to go with SkyTel or one of those nationwide guys, or can I > just get "regional" service and bunch a few regions together? (IE, > bundle mid-Atlantic with New England with Vermont/NH, etc.) Page Net communications offers a nice service for this situation. You can add additional numbers to your account for $1.00 each ($7.00 for voice mail) but they do not have to be in your region. I have one pager with three numbers, one in Miami, one in NYC, and one in Denver. It all is billed through my home office as Additional Service (xxx-xxx-xxxx). They also offer another service (about $20 a month + per call charge) which will send your pages out too all page net offices from your one local number). As long as you are on the right frequency (P1, 931.68750 I think) then they can hook you up. BTW, The regular coverage for NYC covers me from DC to Boston (almost). Justin Greene Finger for PGP 2.x public key ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 08:57:40 EDT From: mr!dev2!rbuyaky@uu3.psi.com (Reid R. Buyaky) Subject: Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? jms@Opus1.COM posted: > It depends on what kind of a hunt group (rotary) you really want. I > called US West (Tucson) and tried to ask for a hunt group, and the > extremely helpful rep said, "well, that's $8/line/month. Could you > use busy forwarding?" Busy forwarding is pretty much what I wanted, > although it's not as perfectly robust as a hunt group ... and it only > costs $0.30/line/month. I know of a BBS system operator in Washington State who tried to use call forward to skip several lines in his hunt group while replacing modems (i.e., he wanted lines four and five to be unavailable, so he set up line four to forward to line six). He later found out that he was charged for every call that was forwarded as though he had made the call from that line! BTW..this was another attractive feature of Centrex for me ... they provide dialup access so *I* have almost complete control of how my hunt group will be set up. They're installing the lines (in my home!!) near the end of this month. My previous articles in this list have asked for information about multiple lines to a residence, and I'm happy to report that the phone company is picking up the entire expense of the outside installation. They're putting in new facilities just to accommodate my needs, and (if needed) will even be putting in new conduit from the post in my yard to the house. I'm VERY happy about this, but wondered why they suddenly became so cooperative. The reply that filtered back to me was "In the last four years the phone company has changed their emphasis and now ENCOURAGES the running of businesses from a residence." I guess that's good news for home businesses. Reid R. Buyaky (Software Systems Engineer) Micro Resources, Inc. -- rbuyaky@mr.com Heartland Multiline BBS - 614-846-7669 MajorNet - Sysop@HRT ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 03:03:37 -0400 From: Monty Solomon Subject: Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? Excerpt from the 7/9/93 {Boston Globe}: Channel 1, the Cambridge-based electronic bulletin board service with 15,000 subscribers, is facing what cofounder Brian Miller terms a "horrible untangling job." Over the past seven years, his one-story, four-room home has come to resemble a Radio Shack warehouse: 110 personal computers each with a modem, and at least that many phone lines to handle 3,200 calls a day. Now, the local zoning board has ordered Miller and his wife to move the business. The good news for fans of Channel 1 forums like "Sexy Bald Captains:" To make the move to Harvard Square [Cambridge], Channel 1 will be off the air for only about 24 hours. And then Miller and his wife, Tess Heder, get their house back. [End of excerpt] Here are the Channel 1 phone numbers: 2400 baud/1200 baud: 617-354-8873, 354-7077, 354-6155 V.32bis 14.4: 617-354-5776, 354-3230, 354-2317 HST 16.8/V.32bis Dual Stand: 617-354-3137, 354-2505, 354-4128 Telebit: 617-354-0470, 354-0784 Monty Solomon / PO Box 2486 / Framingham, MA 01701-0405 monty%roscom@think.com ------------------------------ From: tarl@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter) Subject: Re: White House Orders No-Bid Phone System Date: 18 Jul 1993 17:32:52 GMT Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc. In article , TELECOM Moderator noted in response to Guy J. Sherr <0004322955@mcimail.com>: > [...] press 'C'; if you want to comment; press 'Q' if you think > Clinton should quit; [...] Reminds me of an old trick that was played on me. There is a gentleman who is so angry at the stupidity of some Americans, specifically those not versed in telephone arcana, that he has set up an 800 line with recordings of jokes directed at that group. It's a 1-800 call, so it doesn't cost you anything to check it out: 1-800-IDIOT-I.Q. That number should work equally well from anywhere in the U.S. or Canada. Tarl Neustaedter Stratus Computer tarl@sw.stratus.com Marlboro, Mass. Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions. [Moderator's Note: That's right. It doesn't work from anywhere. PAT] ------------------------------ From: htrobert@eos.ncsu.edu (HEATH TROY ROBERTS) Subject: Re: White House Orders No Bid Phone System Organization: North Carolina State University Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 19:39:33 GMT TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM (Paul Robinson) writes: > There has been considerable flack placed upon the White House for > deciding to contact two switch bidders -- Northern Telecom and AT&T -- > and deciding to place an order consisting of Centrex service from C&P > Telephone and ordering a switch from AT&T, without putting this > contract out for bids. I wonder if this situation is anything like the Congressional Centrex system. Both houses have Centrex from C&P, but the Senate is served by a DMS-100 and the House by a 5ESS. The "new" executive office building is also served from an NT switch, so maybe this is a bone for AT&T. As far as providing service goes, I would think that if the White House decides to use Centrex the equipment selection would be up to C&P. ------------------------------ From: russ_mcguire@wiltel.com (Russ McGuire) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 08:45:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Followup on Introduction to WilTel bnh@active.com (Brian Hess) writes: > "WilTel" stands for "Williams Telecommunications", which is a > spin-off of the Williams Energy Company. Technically, WilTel is a subsidiary of The Williams Companies, a collection of primarily pipeline companies, one of which happens to carry bits instead of BTUs. > According to a WilTel R&D guy I talked to, the origin of WilTel was > in unused pipeline capacity -- someone figured that they could just > clean out an old pipeline, fill it with cable, and use existing > rights-of-way for a brand new business! Exactly! The original WilTel fiber route was a project of Williams Pipeline Company in the mid-80s. They were looking for innovative ways to utilize decommisioned pipe in the upper mid-west. Running fiber through those pipes turned out to be a very innovative (and profitable) concept. Our president, Roy Wilkens, jokes that he had always dreamed of being president of a pipeline company. He finally makes it there, and, with his staff, comes up with this great idea, and the next thing he knows, he's been demoted to running this little telephone company. As you can imagine, WilTel originally had very few employees. These days we have around 3,500 nationwide. Our Esteemed Moderator notes: > [Moderator's Note: Well, you know Sprint had the same kind of > origin back in the middle 1970's. The Southern Pacific Railroad > upgraded their telecommunications facilities greatly, and wound > up with lots of unused capacity. Railroads years ago used to run > their own telephone lines on poles along side the tracks, with > 'call boxes' every five or ten miles for use by railroad employees. Thanks for reminding me of another of our differentiators. As you can imagine, it is critical that pipelines have very secure rights-of-way, where there is very little risk of any catastrophe that would breach the pipe. Therefore, the fiber we've placed inside pipelines (which is a large percentage of our network) is very secure from fiber cuts for three reasons: 1. Its inside a steel pipe; 2. Its along a secure right of way and designed to withstand disasters (floods, earthquakes, etc.); 3. No farmer in his right mind buries his cow anywhere near a natural gas pipeline; a misplaced backhoe through a pipe usually has a much more lasting effect than any lawsuit. Unfortunately, fiber buried or strung along railroads doesn't tend to fare well during even minor derailments. To be fair, WilTel has grown our network both through new builds within pipelines and through acquisitions of existing networks. Many of the networks we have purchased are also along railways, so we do occasionally suffer the same fate, however, we have never had a fiber cut along our high traffic route from KC to LA which is entirely within pipe, and the only real outage we've had on any of our pipeline routes was when someone literally planted a bomb on or in the pipe. I find all this fascinating, so please excuse my rambling about my employer. Russ McGuire WilTel, Inc. russ_mcguire@wiltel.com 918-588-2836 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 10:59:31 EDT From: Carl Moore Subject: WIL-TEL Noted on a COCOT WIL-TEL, 655 Grand Avenue, Elmhurst, IL 60126, tel. 800-726-2360 This firm is listed for 0+ calls "outside this zone", on a pay phone near Clinton, NJ on 908-735. I think this is the same phone where I made a call on the Orange Card and got CLI in the From part of the resulting bill. [Moderator's Note: But is it the same WilTel, or a different firm? Maybe Mr. McQuire can tell us. PAT] ------------------------------ From: Andrew_Marc_Greene@frankston.com Subject: Re: Kerberos on Cellular Telephones Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 11:00 -0400 rgt@spitfire.lanl.gov (Richard Thomsen) writes: > It seems to me that this is not a very good challange system. The > cell sends an encrypted message, and the phone could go offline and > take as long as necessary to try different ESNs to break the code. That's why there's a timeout. The session key is only valid if it's used within n seconds. This doesn't help you against someone eavesdropping on both halves of a real authentication and then number- crunching to try to figure out what your password was, but it does make the attack you suggest impractical. > Would it not be better if it were as follows? >Phone: "Hi, I'd like to make a call, and here is my telephone number > encrypted with my ESN." That's subject to the same eavesdropping attack -- and once I've heard your number encrypted, this is reduced to the earlier problem. Remember that no one in the system trusts each other except with the session key -- the medium is assumed susceptable to eavesdropping (even more of a concern with cell phones than it is with a LAN!), and the Kerberos server and service provider are assumed susceptable to spoofing (less of a concern with cell phones, if the Kerberos server is tightly coupled to the service provider). ------------------------------ From: drawson@Tymnet.COM (Dick Rawson) Subject: Re: Kerberos on Cellular Telephones Date: 18 Jul 93 16:53:15 GMT Organization: BT North America, San Jose CA. >> Phone: "Hi, I'm NNN-NXX-XXXX, I'd like to make a call" >> Cell: "Oh yeah, prove to me that you are NNN-NXX-XXXX. Here >> is a session key encoded using your ESN, decode it, >> encode the number you want to call with it and send >> it back" > It seems to me that this is not a very good challange system. The > cell sends an encrypted message, and the phone could go offline and > take as long as necessary to try different ESNs to break the code. 1. I do not see how it can break the code. When it tries the correct ESN as key it decodes the correct session key ... but now does it recognize that the result IS THE CORRECT SESSION KEY? With care, the session key would look the same as encrypted data; maybe in fact encryption was used as a step in generating the value to be used as the key. 2. The Cell would give a new challenge when the Phone came back online to try to exploit decrypting the challenge (assuming it succeeded). In contrast, encrypting a telephone number with the ESN allows an evesdropper to try a known-plaintext attack; equipment listening to the control dialog already understands what telephone number the Phone is using. Dick ------------------------------ From: hwdub@cyberia.hou281.chevron.com (Dub Dublin) Subject: Re: Need Information on High-Performance Networks Organization: Chevron Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 21:43:03 GMT I'm not sure from your post what exactly your friend is after, but it sounds like he wants high speeds across a wide area network. You can roll your own, if you want, but you'll find it requires cubic dollars to do so. You might want to check out MFS Datanet. They have high-speed optical backbone rings in about two dozen US cities now, with many more in the works. The exciting part, though, is that their MAN networks are connected by an ATM (Asynchronous Transfer Mode, not the other one) network. They offer end-to-end connectivity at 1.544, 4, 10, and 16 Mb/s across the widerea, and 100 Mb/s on a MAN. (They are investigating the possibility of striping across DS3's to provide 100 Mb/s in the wide area environment. Because of the incompatibilities of ATM switches today, MFS does not currently offer an ATM interface to their network, although I suspect they might if you were willing to let them select your equipment. My contact at MFS Communications (a sister company) is Mike Miller, (713) 236-9637. Caveat: Chevron currently contracts with MFS for Common Carrier access on MFS Communications' optical ring in Houston, but is not using any of the Datanet services at this time, so I can't tell you how well it works. One of the nice things about Datanet is that it provides a LAN media interface (Ethernet, Token Ring, etc.) that appears to be a transparent learning bridge, although routing and other such things are available. Dub Dublin Chevron Information Technology Company email: dub@chevron.com phone: (713) 596-3199 ------------------------------ From: sdl@world.std.com (Rubin Dhillon) Subject: Re: Need Information on High-Performance Networks Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 22:29:47 GMT I can give you an address to contact for all of your hardware questions. SDL Communications manufactures and markets communications boards for PC's. These boards are widely used (along with BSDI) to set up internets, and even routers in a PC. If you have any questions please contact Rubin at: E-Mail: sdl@world.std.com Phone: (508) 238 4490 Fax: (508) 238 1053 ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #487 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa24450; 19 Jul 93 8:39 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA11467 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 06:07:48 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA18836 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 06:07:02 -0500 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 06:07:02 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307191107.AA18836@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #488 TELECOM Digest Mon, 19 Jul 93 06:07:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 488 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: 800 Translation Questions (David G. Lewis) Re: 800 Translation Questions (Richard Cox) Re: 800 Translation Questions (Richard Nash) How I Call 800 Numbers From Outside the USA (John L. Shelton) Re: Call Forward to a 1-800 Number (Pat Turner) Re: Why Can't I Call 800 Numbers Internationally? (David G. Lewis) Re: Movie Review: {Line of Fire} and Telecom (Philip Gladstone) Re: Movie Review: {Line of Fire} and Telecom (Michael Rosen) Re: Transcontinental Propagation Delay (Bernard Rupe) Re: Transcontinental Propogation Delay (John D. Gretzinger) Re: Information Needed on Using US Phones in Germany (Christian Weisgerber) Re: ADAD Suggestions Please (Christopher Zguris) Re: Dialing Plan Questions (Bill Hofmann) Re: Impairment Levels on T1 Carrier (Bruce Sullivan) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deej@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (david.g.lewis) Subject: Re: 800 Translation Questions Organization: AT&T Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 14:30:43 GMT In article jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) writes: > What is the name of the office that handles the translations for 800 > service within a Bell region (ie: NY Telephone or NJ Bell)? Are all > 800 calls (non AT&T, Sprint etc) passed to a central switch, > translated and routed or does each switch have the ability to > translate it? All 800 calls are sent to an 800 SSP (Service Switching Point) if the originating End Office is not an 800 SSP; 800 SSPs are usually access tandems. The 800 SSP is the switch that queries the 800 SCP (Service Control Point). The call is routed from the 800 SSP to the appropriate carrier (if the originating LEC is not the 800 service provider) or routed within the LATA to the destination (if the originating LEC is the 800 service provider). > Also, with portability, does that mean that the local telco keeps a > list on a switch somewhere so it knows where to send the call. The "list" is kept at the 800 SCP. > Can one take a local 800 number and take it to a non-local carrier. As Pat indicated, the caller has no control over the carrier to which an 800 call is sent. > [Moderator's Note: ... One complaint about portability was that 800 > calls would take several seconds longer to process when telco went to > the database to find out what to do with it. In fact, calls to > commonly used 800 numbers now seem to complete instantly, or at least > as fast as before. PAT] One reason that 800 Number Portability was as long in coming as it was was that the FCC mandated a certain level of SS7 Network Interconnect had to exist before portability. This is because the TCAP query to the 800 SCP does add a not insignificant amount to the call setup time, and the setup time reductions provided by SS7 NI were needed to "counteract" this addition. So my hypothesis (with no data at all to back it up, of course) is that we're seeing the effects of NI -- reducing call setup times -- and the effects of 800 number portability -- increasing call setup times -- somewhat cancelling each other out, as expected. David G Lewis AT&T Bell Laboratories david.g.lewis@att.com or !att!goofy!deej Switching & ISDN Implementation ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 14:37 GMT From: Richard Cox Subject: Re: 800 Translation Questions Reply-To: mandarin@cix.compulink.co.uk In response to jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene), PAT said: > And yes, some telcos (maybe all) keep a cache of the 800 numbers > they have recently connected with to make future calls to that > number go faster. If they have never seen the 800 number before, > they do a database lookup. So how long are the telcos allowed to keep that routing data active? If you change 800 carrier tomorrow, for how long will some telcos be routing your 800 calls through the old carrier? Or is this something we are only going to find out "the hard way"? Richard D G Cox Mandarin Technology, Cardiff Business Park, Llanishen, CARDIFF, CF4 5WF UK Voice: +44 222 747111 Fax: +44 222 711111 VoiceMail: +44 399 870101 [Moderator's Note: I doubt if they keep it more than a day or two on average. I think its a case where maybe the last several thousand 800 calls they process are kept around with new ones pushing the old ones off the stack. Consequently the numbers for airlines, hotel reservations radio station contests and the like keep re-appearing constantly. I think the process is much the same way mail is handled between Internet sites: the first time a site sees another site name, it says 'who is this?' and it has to go to the name resolver and find out what's going on. It then delivers the mail, or makes the telnet connection or what- ever, and it remembers about that place for awhile. If you ask for the same place five or ten minutes later, very likely it remembers and does not have to go ask the name resolver that time. Consider mailing lists such as this one: Why do I have to put at least 30-40 minutes and preferably an hour between invocations of sendmail if I want to be certain each subscriber gets each issue in the order they are published rather than some people having them arrive out of sequence? Because the first issue (of several in a few hour's time) in the queue takes longer to get delivered. The daemon is constantly having to go to the resolver to find out about different sites. It finds out and puts the information in a cache; then later in the same mailing list when it sees the same site name again for some other subscriber it says, "Oh! I know where that place is!", and it makes delivery promptly. Meanwhile if a second invocation of sendmail is running for me, the two daemons race ahead of each other; each gets to benefit from what the other put in the cache. So the second issue 'in the mail' has its daemon zip rapidly through a good portion of the list benefitting from what the first daemon had to go look for, and names three-quarters of the way down the list on the second mailing are getting their copies before the first daemon has gotten that far. Then before long, the second daemon can't find anything in the cache it wants and *it* has to start going to the name resolver for all the sites it sees in the list. It trudges off to the resolver, comes back with information and puts it in the cache where the first daemon finds it ("Oh, I know who that is!") and is able to speed up delivery using information the second one found. Then presently the cache is devoid of information it wants and it starts going to the resolver again. So as the daemons race ahead of each other (benefitting from the other's lookups) or fall behind each other, some subscribers get the second issue first and the first issue last. Based on my typical Digest size, the size of the mailing list (or lists, actually) and what I know about how the sysadmin here has put nice values on my sendmail, I know if I leave at least 30-40 minutes between sendmail invocations the second one never will catch up with the first, nor the third with the second, etc. I think -- but don't know -- that telcos have the same sort of cache. If an 800 number gets called by some subscriber or another at least every two or three days the switch says, "Oh, I know who that is!" and doesn't have to do a database query. Other ideas? PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 18:35:45 -0600 From: rickie@trickie.ualberta.ca Subject: Re: 800 Translation Questions Reply-To: rickie@trickie.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca In comp.dcom.telecom, article , our Moderator noted: > [Moderator's Note: Are we repeating ourselves here? When dialing an > 800 number the caller has *no choice whatsoever* in carrier or route > or anything else. The person who *pays* for the calls makes those > decisions, period. Telco hands the call off to the carrier chosen for > it by the recipient of the call, period. All references to 10xxx or > zero plus an 800 number are ignored. No one would use 800 service if > there was a risk they could get a bill for big $$ because the caller > chose to send it via Integratel or some other AOS. And yes, some > telcos (maybe all) keep a cache of the 800 numbers they have recently > connected with to make future calls to that number go faster. If they Perhaps someone could expand upon what Pat means here. How can the telco keep a cache of recently connected calls if the logic to determine routing number is based upon the calling parties address and is held only in the database? Richard Nash Edmonton, Alberta Canada T6K 0E8 UUCP: rickie@trickie.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca Amateur Radio: ve6bon.ampr.ab.ca [192.75.200.15] [Moderator's Note: A call from POTS phone A in Chicago to 800 number B in New York will *always* have the same logic, won't it? Telco goes to the database the first time it sees an 800 number; is given the details on what to do, and does it. Do you have to be told over and over how to do the same thing? The round cache which sits on top of your shoulders stores information. You only go to the library (or read this Digest! ) when you want to learn something new. So for a day or two or three -- whatever -- at a time, the telco switch's cache remembers what it did the last time it saw the number. Since large volume 800 customers are called over and over all day long in a city like Chicago (someone in some CO somewhere here is always calling United Airlines, I'm sure), the switch is always in a position to say "Oh! I know what to do now, I know where that place is." PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 02:38:58 -0700 From: jshelton@ads.com (John L. Shelton) Subject: How I Call 800 Numbers From Outside the USA I have been calling some 800 numbers from Europe over the last few months via this scheme: I call USA Direct (AT&T). In some countries, you get a bong tone and can direct dial a number if you have a touch-tone phone. Otherwise tell the operator. 800 numbers seem to be acceptable. I haven't seen the bill yet; I assume I'll get charged for the full international rate. One attempt was blocked; I got an operator, who explained that the 800 number I was calling wasn't owned by AT&T, so they wouldn't place the call. I haven't tried using Sprint*DIrect. John ------------------------------ From: turner@Dixie.Com Date: Sun, 19 Jul 93 21:54 EDT Subject: Re: Call Forward to a 1-800 Number Joe Pace writes: > I tried calling 800-235-1414 from our Intecom PBX and rather than > reporting my phone number it gave the POTS number of the Pacific Bell > circuit the call went out on. Do some PBX's forward the internal > numbers to phone company switches, or is this not possible using > conventional phone lines? There's a service called Automatic Identification of Outward Dialing that will do just this. Real handy for CO based call accounting and 911 service. Patton Turner KB4GRZ FAA Telecommunications turner@dixie.com ------------------------------ From: deej@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (david.g.lewis) Subject: Re: Why Can't I Call 800 Numbers Internationally? Organization: AT&T Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 04:14:19 GMT In article miguel@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Miguel Cruz) writes: > Often I see ads in US magazines and newspapers where only 800 numbers > are provided. Near as I can tell, there is NO WAY whatsoever to call > these numbers from Australia. Why is this? To which our Esteemed Moderator replies: > [Moderator's Note: The main reason is because the company which owns > the 800 number has told the carrier they do *not* want calls from > outside the USA for whatever reason... If > they find it in their best interest to pay for calls from international > points (or even split the charges with an international caller) they > will have their 800 number configured to do that... PAT] As usual, a difficult question has a simple, easy-to-understand wrong answer ... Contrary to Pat's statements, there is a technical issue beyond simple bloody-mindedness on the part of the 800 subscriber. First, let me draw a distinction. There's something I'll call "Freephone" service, for want of a better term; this is, generically, a service which allows all calls to a given number, identified by a specified set of digits in the number, to be charged to the called party. Then there's the specific version of this "Freephone" service supported in world zone 1, which is "800 service". In other places, other versions of the "Freephone" service use different digit sets to identify these reverse-billed calls, use different service architectures, etc.etc.etc. Then there are international versions of these services, which I'll "International Freephone" and "International 800". The thing to keep in mind is that the subscriber to an International Freephone service is in country A, but that the calling parties are in countries B, C, D, and so on, so that the number dialed by the calling parties must be valid "Freephone" numbers in *those* countries, not country A. For example, let's say that Upper Slobovia Post and Telecom offers a Freephone service, where Freephone calls are identified by the first two digits being "33". If International Widget, Inc., a company in WZ1, wants to be able to accept International Freephone calls from Upper Slobovia, then their service provider has to arrange with Upper Slobovia P&T for a "33" number which will send calls to International Widget's inbound call center in Pocatello, Idaho. Or wherever it is that you answer phone calls about widgets. This "33" number probably has nothing at all in common with the "800" number that International Widget advertizes in the US, except for where calls to it terminate. The question Pat answered was "Why don't companies in WZ1 who have 800 numbers also have 'International Freephone' numbers," and his answer to that question was correct -- they choose not to, for whatever reason. I think the question Mr. Cruz asked, though, was "Why can't I call an 800 number from Australia?" And to this question, there is an answer that shows a technical limitation. In this Brave New World of Competition and 800 Number Portability, there are N service providers which offer 800 service in the US, where N is larger than, say, probably 100. The telco which handles the call origination determines which 800 service provider to route the call to based on a database query; the database they're querying is something called the 800DBS SCP (last I heard), or 800 DataBase Service Service Control Point. This database is operated by the local telco, with data provided through something called the 800 SMS, or 800 Service Management System. Telecom Australia doesn't have an 800DBS SCP. They can't query one in the US, because (a) there are no international standards for it; (b) whose would they query? Therefore, if you dial +1.800.NXX.XXXX, Telecom Australia knows that the call has to go somewhere in WZ1, but has no idea whether it should go to AT&T, MCI, Sprint, Stentor, Unitel, Wiltel, RCI, NYTel, or any of the other N carriers that provide 800 service. If you call, say, a Sprint operator and say you want to dial an 800 number, that operator also has no idea whether it's a Sprint 800 number or someone else's 800 number - and even if they knew, they'd have little or no incentive to complete it if it's not a Sprint 800 number. And that doesn't even *touch* the billing and settlements part of the problem ... Disclaimer: All of this information is available in public documents, mostly from Bellcore and standards orgs; I don't work on 800, Freephone, or international services. David G Lewis AT&T Bell Laboratories david.g.lewis@att.com or !att!goofy!deej Switching & ISDN Implementation ------------------------------ From: philip@mail.citicorp.com (Philip Gladstone) Subject: Re: Movie Review: {Line of Fire} and Telecom Date: 18 Jul 1993 10:01:05 -0400 Organization: Citicorp More on {In the Line of Fire}. Some of the telephone numbers used are not on the 555 exchange. Looking these numbers up in an inverted directory indicates that they are unlisted or not allocated. I didn't want to try calling them (as I'm sure that the recipients are now thoroughly annoyed!). On the subject of spoofing ANI, the easiest way would be for him to use 1-900-STOPPER, or hack into a companies PABX DISA ports. Either way, the number will be useless. But it is a great film -- go see. Philip Gladstone - Consultant Citicorp Global Information Network I don't speak for Citicorp. I presume that somebody else does! ------------------------------ From: mrosen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Rosen) Subject: Re: Movie Review: {Line of Fire} and Telecom Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci. Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 06:24:26 GMT I don't know enough about ANI to have realized anything amiss in that department but I did notice something else. In the scene where he runs out to the payphone around the corner from his apartment you hear the payphone emitting the error tone that occurs after a phone has been left off the hook (I didn't know what else to call it ...:). How could this be when "Frank" didn't hang up his end in the apartment? He just left it off the hook on the sofa. Michael Rosen mrosen@nyx.cs.du.edu George Washington University Alumni Tau Epsilon Phi, Tau Theta 381 ------------------------------ From: rupe@rtsg.mot.com (Bernard Rupe) Subject: Re: Transcontinental Propagation Delay Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1993 17:13:57 GMT edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards) writes: > I am configuring a link between SF and NY over T1 lines. Can anyone > tell me how to estimate the propagation delay I will experience? As > the photon flies (in vacuum), it is 16ms. But propagation through > copper and fiber is slower, right? And the lines will likely not > follow the shortest path. And perhaps repeaters and muxes might add > latency. Signals travel through copper at .3c. I believe the speed in fiber is around 2/3 c. I don't know what the delays would be through the repeaters/regenerators, but it shoud be too high. Bernie Rupe 1501 W. Shure Drive Room 1315 Motorola, Inc. Arlington Heights, IL 60004 Cellular Infrastructure Group +1 708 632 2814 rupe@rtsg.mot.com ------------------------------ From: JOHN.D.GRETZINGER@sprint.sprint.com Date: 19 Jul 93 16:47:55-0400 Subject: Re: Transcontinental Propogation Delay edwards@intranet.com writes: > I am configuring a link between SF and NY over T1 lines. Can > anyone tell me how to estimate the propagation delay I will experience? There are several questions brought to mind with this. The first is why do you care? If you are not going via satellite it really is not enough to worry about from other than an intellectual exercise. Not only will the circuit not take the shortest route, it may change routes depending on the type of service you have purchased. If the T1 is for voice, it will be routed by the carrier over the fastest route available. Should the shortest route be congested or unavailable (remember the rain in the mid west?), the traffic will be re-routed to bypass the effected switching facilities. X.25 circuits will by defination take any available route, and individual packets may well take different routes. Incidentally, this is true for any switched service offering. A dedicated data circuit (Sprint's Clearline (TM) for example) uses a predefined path that will normally go over a given route. This route is known by the network engineers, and is available to the customer (most small customers really don't care as long as the circuit works). Network engineering can also give you the end to end delay time which I suspect is really what you want. John D. Gretzinger |Opinions expressed are mine and only mine. Network Engineer |Facts are my opinions, don't blame me if Sprint |your facts don't match mine. +1.310.797.1187 | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 23:22:18 +0200 From: naddy@mips.ruessel.sub.org (Christian Weisgerber) Reply-To: naddy@mips.ruessel.sub.org Subject: Re: Information Needed on Using US Phones in Germany In was written: > Does anyone have any information about the compatibility/legality of > using U.S. telephones, modems and FAX machines in Germany. I remember > years back when you couldn't buy anything except a Ma Bell phone in > the U.S. and thought the German PTT was still the same. Not quite so. There isn't a "PTT" any longer as postal and telecom services have been separated. And you can legally connect any device to the PSTN that is approved by the BZT, which is a federal agency. Unfortunately you're not likely to find a device outside Germany that features BZT approval and even over here approved phones/modems/etc. are significantly more expensive than non-approved devices. > I have a German telephone (pulse) which works great here in the U.S., > but it didn't have an RJ-11 or RJ-45 type jack. I know nothing about > the ring voltage and such other things. Actual specs for line/ring voltage are slightly different, I guess, but perfectly compatible in practice. I suggest you do as the natives do and don't worry too much about approval. Your phones/modems/FAX/ answering machines will work fine over here and Telekom themselves don't really care what you connect to their lines if doesn't do any harm -- FCC approved devices are okay, power lines aren't :-) (The fact that all my phones feature approval is a mere coincidence, my modems on the other hand ...) Adapters from RJ11 jacks to one of the various formats employed over here are readily available. Tone dialing is the same if available, pulse dialing works fine with both American and British make/break ratios. BUSY detection doesn't work with "analog" (EMD) switches (~60%). Oh, it should be obvious, but maybe it isn't: the above said is *not* valid for cordless phones. Don't use foreign cordless phones in Germany. You're likely to interfere with other wireless services and can get yourself a *lot* of trouble. E.g. Berlin Airport wasn't very happy about people chatting on their frequencies. Christian 'naddy' Weisgerber, Germany naddy@ruessel.sub.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 10:40 GMT From: Christopher Zguris <0004854540@mcimail.com> Subject: Re: ADAD Suggestions Please HELLO DIRECT (800-444-3556) offers a product called Phone Tree, it is a computerized system that will call up to 1000 people. From what the ad says, it will call back busy numbers and request that callers press 9 to confirm delivery. Evidently, it also works with answering machines- it waits for the beep then delivers its message! They have a standalone version with a keyboard on it for $499 and a version that is accessed by computer for $699. Christopher Zguris CZGURIS@MCIMail.com ------------------------------ From: wdh@netcom.com (Bill Hofmann) Subject: Re: Dialing Plan Questions Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 19:32:27 PDT Carl Moore wrote to me: > I am merely checking the list of country codes. Malawi is 265, not 365 > (correction should be made to your message in the telecom archives?). Right you are. I *knew* I'd learn something :-> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 11:22 GMT From: Bruce Sullivan Subject: Re: Impairment Levels on T1 Carriers achau@mpr.ca (Albert Chau) writes: > Does anybody know of any studies that investigated the performance of > T1 carriers? I'd like to know what are typical BERs, frequency of > slips, jitter induced errors, etc. I don't know of any studies per se, but my experience has been that -- all else being equal -- they're pretty much the same (I've used AT&T, MCI, & Wiltel, so I speak only of those). I have several T1s for which I closely monitor all of the ESF stats (framing losses, CRC6 errors, frame bit error, bipolar violations, frame slips). When they're all healthy, they're pretty much error-free -- literally -- independent of vendor. One span, however, which has a microwave segment in it, has a slightly higher occurence of errors. It's trivial and non service-affecting, so I don't worry about it, as long as the rate is low and consistent. Frankly, I think the bigger issue is not so much error rate as health of the circuit, and the service you get from the vendor (overall, but particularily when you have problems). They're an easily ranked 1-2-3, as far as I'm concerned. I realize this might rankle some purists, but AT&T comes up last in that category, followed by Wiltel, with MCI on top. ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #488 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa26566; 19 Jul 93 10:00 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA13929 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 07:04:29 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA13388 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 07:03:47 -0500 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 07:03:47 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307191203.AA13388@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #489 TELECOM Digest Mon, 19 Jul 93 07:03:45 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 489 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (C. Weisgerber) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (Rahul Dhesi) Re: Cellular Propagation Simulator (Roger V. Thompson) Re: Has Power Company Broken Telco Monopoly on the "Last Mile"? (J Hayward) Re: What Happens When ANI is NOT Delivered? (Al Varney) Re: Natwick 911 Drama (Gerry George) Re: Do Operators Interrupt Modem Calls? (Mike Berger) Re: International Toll-Free Standard Code (Dan Sahlin) Re: NPA Locator Shareware Program Wanted (John Rice) ---------------------- TELECOM Digest is an e-journal devoted mostly -- but not exclusively -- to discussions on voice telephony. The Digest is a not-for-profit public service published frequently by Patrick Townson Associates. PTA markets a no-surcharge telephone calling card and a no monthly fee 800 service. In addition, we are resellers of AT&T's Software Defined Network. For a detailed discussion of our services, write and ask for the file 'products'. The Digest is delivered at no charge by email to qualified subscribers on any electronic mail service connected to the Internet. To join the mail- ing list, write and tell us how you qualify: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu. All article submissions MUST be sent to our email address: telecom@eecs. nwu.edu -- NOT as replies to comp.dcom.telecom. Back issues and numerous other telephone-related files of interest are available from the Telecom Archives, using anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu. Login anonymous, then 'cd telecom-archives'. At the present time, the Digest is also ported to Usenet at the request of many readers there, where it is known as 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Use of the Digest does not require the use of our products and services. The two are separate. All articles are the responsibility of the individual authors. Organi- zations listed, if any, are for identification purposes only. The Digest is compilation-copyrighted, 1993. **DO NOT** cross-post articles between the Digest and other Usenet or alt newsgroups. Do not compile mailing lists from the net-addresses appearing herein. Send tithes and love offerings to PO Box 1570, Chicago, IL 60690. :) Phone: 312-465-2700. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 00:15:58 +0200 From: naddy@mips.ruessel.sub.org (Christian Weisgerber) Reply-To: naddy@mips.ruessel.sub.org Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck In , is written: > Recently, I noticed the pattern of using __0 (where the "__" can be > any number of digits) as the main number, with __xx (or even __xxx?) > being the extension for the fax line. In the message I am responding > to, I have noticed this pattern in: > +49 6131 XXX 450 voice > +49 6131 XXX 4555 fax This is the usual way with corporate PBXes. -0 gets you the corporate operator, -x{x} gets you a specific extension. Usually you call a company at -0 and state your concern. You'll then be connected to the person in charge, who'll give you his/her extension number if there's a potential interest to call again. This convention is so natural to me that it took some time until I realized that North Americans, who are used to their rigid numbering plan, must find it strange. In , david.g.lewis writes: > I suspect that no one has yet raised this point because this point has > only recently appeared with the introduction of 11-digit national > significant numbers in Germany. Frankly, I don't know why Telekom > (DBT) has assigned 11 digit NSNs, unless they're unable to expand the > codespace any other way (perhaps due to the capabilities, or lack > thereof, of the equipment in the eastern portion of the country?) > Anyone from Telekom or anyone in Germany able to shed any light on > this? I'm not from Telekom, however, I'm very surprised about the claim above. I'm not aware that there are any 11-digit (national significant) numbers in Germany. According to Telekom literature they certainly stick to CCITT/ITU-T recommendation E.163. In fact, until recently phone number over here had a real life maximum of nine digits. Pressure to use all ten digits not long ago only appeared in larger cities and with the introduction of ISDN, which -- at least with the national 1TR6 D-channel protocol -- allocates a full digit for explicitly specifying any of the up to eight devices connected to the S0 bus. I haven't seen any phone numbers longer than e.g. that of my ISDN line: +49.621.587046.0 (country code/city/my number/ISDN device) which already causes some local people to frown. Also, I don't see any *need* yet for Telekom to assign eleven-digit numbers. In Western Germany local numbers starting with 9 have traditionally been reserved and have, along with ten-digit numbers, only recently come into use. Phone numbers in Eastern Germany have kind of an extra digit because after Reunification basically all the old numbers were kept, just prefixed by 3, however, they have much fewer installed lines over there and simply can't satisfy the current demand for new ones. So the numbering plan *is* tight but reserves should be plenty to carry us through to 1996. If you know of a supposedly eleven-digit number in Germany, try calling it omitting the last digit. There are a few people around who think they can produce a cute looking number by adding a superfluous digit. (Telekom themselves have done that.) In any case I'd be very interested to hear of a eleven-digit number -- I'm *very* reluctant to believe that there's such a thing without having verified it myself. > So, 12 was once the maximum required, but then came the ISDN era ... > Therefore, +49 6131 XXX 4555 must be an ISDN era number! The > Administrations had better get busy expanding their registers to > cater. To clarify: +49 6131 XXX 4555 is *not a legal number* in Germany as far as I am concerned. I may err. Probably not. We are well into the ISDN era here, but phone number still conform to E.163 and will continue to do so until time T. Could the person who brought this up please send me the full number for local verification? Christian 'naddy' Weisgerber, Germany naddy@ruessel.sub.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 01:29:25 -0700 From: Rahul Dhesi Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck This is the era of many megabytes of main memory and gigabytes of virtual memory in low-end computer equipment. Anybody who writes computer software is used to allocating much more than 12 bytes of memory at a time. So why is so much telephone equipment limited to only 12 digits at a time? Who is writing this broken telecom software? Is it some guy that hard-coded five digits for zip codes at one time and got fired when nine-digit zip codes came along? Has some unsuspecting telephone company now hired him to write switching software? Did they not make sure that any fixed-size data structures depend on defined constants, so that a single change and recompile would allow longer fields to be supported? Does telephone switching equipment not have the ability to have its software upgraded via a telephone call? Do telephone switching standards not allow variable-length fields? Inquiring minds want to know why the telephone industry is now dealing with problems that we TRS-80 programmers figured out how to solve decades ago. Rahul Dhesi also: dhesi@cirrus.com ------------------------------ From: rvt@calvin.sbc.com (Roger V. Thompson) Subject: Re: Cellular Propagation Simulator Date: 19 Jul 1993 13:35:26 GMT Organization: Southwestern Bell Technology Resources Inc. In article Rodney Alan Walker writes: > Is anyone on the network aware of a software package that simulates > the cellular radio environment? Basically it provides signal strengths > at different geographic locations in relation to the cell transmission > site, depending on different terrain models and atmospheric > conditions. > I have not heard of any software for this, but I would find it > extremely useful. Can anyone help? Cellular propagation software is available from a number of sources. Each of the major cellular system vendors -- AT&T and Ericsson for example -- have this type of software. Other major players in the area that I'm familiar with are LCC, CNet, Comsearch, and Mobile Systems International. All of these firms provide software and services for cellular system radio design domestically and internationally. The software and services are complex and expensive. A single cell site evaluation might cost $500 to $1000 US. This is for a run in the provider's shop or on a system you might install. System requirements today are moving toward the Sun workstation environment and away from older systems using computers of the microvax sort. You don't even want to know how much a full system evaluation, like that for a new cellular build, will cost. Roger V. Thompson, P.E. |ARS AD5T Southwestern Bell Technology Resources, Inc. |314-529-7847 (Office) 550 Maryville Centre Dr. |314-529-7674 (Fax) St. Louis, MO 63141 |rvt@calvin.sbc.com ------------------------------ From: jah@mojo.ots.utexas.edu (Jeff Hayward) Subject: Re: Has Power Company Broken Telco Monopoly on the "Last Mile"? Date: 19 Jul 93 07:05:08 GMT Organization: The University of Texas In article Robert Monaghan writes: > Just when I was convinced that the means of bringing datacom to the > consumer would be an inevitable battle between two corporate monopoly > giants -- the BOCs and the Cable Industry -- another monopoly joins in -- > the Power Company! > The Spread Spectrum Carrier by Intellon Corporation has provided > General Electric Meter and Control with technology that enables > electric meters to send and receive data over the same AC power lines > that provide electricity. Spread Spectrum Carrier was developed to > provide low cost, high-speed, high-reliability communications over > noisy power lines and radio frequencies. This idea is not unique. I have in front of me a packet describing "Customer Choice 2000" from Entergy Corporation and First Pacific Networks. CC2000 is described as a broadband based 2-way system to be installed by the electric utility to do demand side management using an energy management system called PowerView. The interesting feature is not the technology they propose, but the idea that the potential benefit from DSM can provide the economic justification for installation of a complete modern high speed two way network to the home. If this single application can pay for the infrastructure then the rest of the home communication market can ride along just about for free. Jeff Hayward ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 04:14:08 CDT From: varney@ihlpe.att.com Subject: Re: What Happens When ANI is NOT Delivered? Organization: AT&T Network Systems In article ctuttle@wuntvor.pillar.com (Colin Tuttle) writes: > There has been some talk recently about the 800 number that returns > ANI and is an ad for the 1-900-STOPPER service. My question is what > about phone numbers that don't return ANI? > We have numerous 800 numbers that come in on our T-1 line from within > the State of Oklahoma. Every month we get many that are listed on the > bill as the area code, prefix, and then 0000 as the suffix. Obviously > the true number is not reported to our long distance carrier. Many of > these are from small phone companies (non S.W. Bell) in rural areas of > the state. > Now, I wonder what would happen if one of these people called the 800 > number that demonstrated ANI. Would it give the area code, prefix and > then 0000 as the last four digits? Don't know -- depends on how the number is delivered in "real-time" and whether there is a means to indicate "no billing number". > Now, more importantly what would happen if these people called the 900 > number advertised ... or any 900 number, for that matter. Since the IP > doesn't receive the actual phone number of the caller, would the caller > be connected, or would they be connected and then not be charged? The same thing would happen as happens when these folks dial any "toll" call -- an operator (either local ONI or an IXC operator) would ask the caller to identify their calling number. (My faulty memory thinks the usual phrase was "Number please" when you dialed such a call.) The usual reason for no ANI is the caller is on a multi-party (8-party, rural party) line; there is no standard means to identify the individual calling telephone on these lines. > There must be many areas of the country that have this situation. Do > they get free 900 service, or are they barred from using these > "services?" Depends -- if the LEC operator system makes the identification and sends the ANI to the IXC or 900 IP as a billing number, the identified number probably gets the bll. If no local ONI is performed, the IXC instead gets an indication of "multi-party" on the call (in place of the ANI number) and deals with that on a per-IXC basis. And while there are still "many areas" with multi-party service, there aren't a lot of folks left with such a service. Disclaimer: I don't work for the long-distance part of AT&T, nor do I know anything about their 900 billing practices. Al Varney ------------------------------ From: ggeorge@bu.edu (Gerry George) Subject: Re: Natwick 911 Drama Date: 19 Jul 1993 00:17:21 GMT Organization: Boston University Reply-To: ggeorge@acs.bu.edu In response to a story involving five-year olds and emergency services, there followed: > [Moderator's Note: Here in Chicago, if that dispatcher had been > employed by Chicago Emergency -- our 911 service which handles police, > fire and paramedic calls -- the dispatcher would have been suspended on > the spot and put in line for disciplinary proceedings and possible dis- > charge from employment. This is considered an extremely sensitive area > of employment. Yes, they get a large number of calls which rightfully > should not go to 911 (we here believe 911 should be used *only* in > instances of dire emergency -- when intervention by authorities is > required immediatly); and some are downright fraud calls designed to > cause confusion and disruption. None the less, all receive responses. > Callers giving false alarms are dealt with accordingly (they are usu- > ally written off as 'mistaken citizen attempting to help' unless the > citizen is obviously doing it on purpose), but we do not ignore cries > of help from children on the premise that some children were never > taught or choose to ignore the rule that one does not play pranks on > emergency services. PAT] I once had the need to report a "threatening" phone call (I knew who the caller was, and wanted to file an official complaint). I looked up the local police station in the directory (since I do not know how those procedures work) and mentioned that I wanted to make a report on a harassing phone call (Boston, MA). I was instructed to call 911!!! I politely told the woman on the other end that it was not an emergency, I simply wanted to file a complaint. She said that there was no way for them to take a report unledd I went through 911. I left it at that, and hung up in frustration, thinking that this was a sure fire way to mess up a perfectly good emergency response system. Why would the powers that be see it fit to route *all* calls through to 911??? Gerry George School of Management, Boston Univ. Internet: ggeorge@acs.bu.edu HomeNet: ggeorge@jacquot.ci.net Compu$erve: 72607.2560@compuserve.com [Moderator's Note: We get the very same static here from certain police officers: call 911 to report it! Yet the official rule is NOT to use 911 *except* when intervention is required immediatly. When you must have police, firefighers or paramedics at the location *now*, then a call to 911 is indicated. To report a stolen car, a burglary of your home while you were away (there is no immediate danger to your life or property now -- there may have been an hour ago), then we are to call 312-PIG-4000. If they won't take the report on their seven- digit administrative number, then I guess you call 911 and continue to abuse the emergency number like everyone else. It is curious, BTW, how our Police Department got the telephone prefix 'PIG' (312-744): It was a joke thought up by a telco employee back in the late 1960's -- when police officers were frequently referred to as 'pigs' here in the USA during the discontentment over Viet Nam and life in general. For sixty years previously, City Hall had been RANdolph 8000 and the Police Department was WABash 4747 for non-emergencies. We dialed POLice(5)-1313 or FIRe(7)-1313 for emergencies. The city put in a new centrex system about 25 years ago. A 'radical' employed by IBT at the time was in charge of those things, and he assigned 744, keeping it as his own private joke for a few years. But then like any such witty act, it was hard to keep to himself and word started creeping around: to reach any certain pig, just dial PIG and the pig's four digit extension. Now the city has two centrexes, 312-744 and 312-747. PAT] ------------------------------ From: mike_berger@qms1.life.uiuc.edu (Mike Berger) Subject: Re: Do Operators Interrupt Modem Calls? Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 20:19:48 GMT Organization: U of Il. School of Life Sciences In article , tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) wrote: > Today I was logged on to a remote computer via modem for three hours. > A friend needed to contact me, and getting repeated busy signals, > asked an operator for an "emergency" interrupt. The operator said > there was "static" on the line and did I "have a computer"? I guess you had a smart operator. Somebody asked the operator to interrupt my (modem) call -- she indicated that there was "just static" on the line so she cut off the call toward the end of a very large file transfer. ------------------------------ From: dan@sics.se (Dan Sahlin) Subject: Re: International Toll-Free Standard Code Organization: SICS, Swedish Inst. of Computer Science Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 11:48:29 GMT Richard Cox wrote: > There is even talk of 00800 (011800 from the USA) numbers for > international freephone. When I was in Hungary a couple of weeks ago I noticed something very strange. It seemed as if they had already introduced those special country numbers for freephone calls. The numbers for "Sverige (Sweden) direkt" from Hungary are 00 800 11386 and 00 800 04611. But the international prefix in Hungary is 00. So they seem to assume that no country will ever get code 800, and they use this country code for international freephone calls. In most other countries, as far as I know, the national freephone "area code" is also used for international freephone calls. As these codes are different in almost all countries, I have to bring a long list of numbers when I go abroad in order to call "Sverige Direkt" from abroad. In some countries, however, the national freephone area code is not used for international calls. Here are some numbers where it seems as if they have have "stolen" an unassigned country code. I doubt that is in accordance with international agreements. Country Sverige Direkt Int. prefix "stolen" country code Brasil 0008046 00 0 Chile 000 346 00 0 France 19 0046 19 0 Hungary 00 800 11386 00 800 Indonesia 0080146 00 801 New Zealand 000946 00 0 Turkey 99800461177 99 800 For example, in Brasil the number for "Sverige Direkt" is 0008046, and as their international prefix is 00, they seem to assume that country code 0 will not be assigned to anything. By the way, the freephone area code in Sweden is 020. Area code 08 is used for Stockholm. Since no telephone numbers start with 00, we could actually switch to using 0800. I have not heard about any such plans. One more thing about strange Hungarian telephone numbers. In Hungary I noticed in an ad that you could dial 00 1 400 4908989 to get your horoscope. As the ad was in Hungarian, I guess the number did not lead to North America, and, as far as I know, there is no country code 400 in North America. It seems Hungarian telecom is trapping these "impossible" numbers and use them locally for their "900" service. (In Sweden "900" numbers start with 071 ...) Dan Sahlin, Sweden ------------------------------ From: rice@ttd.teradyne.com Subject: Re: NPA Locator Shareware Program Wanted Organization: Teradyne Inc., Telecommunications Division Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 10:35:33 GMT In article , EXTMO4H@mizzou1.missouri. edu (Missouri 4-H Youth Development Programs) writes: > I'm a recent subscriber to TELECOM Digest. Can someone point me to > this shareware program for searching for telephone prefixes? I have on my BBS a Shareware program named NPA. NPA is a comprehensive area code and prefix locator. NPA contains information for over 20,000 cities in the United States and Canada. The information includes: Area code (NPA) state in USA or province in Canada local exchange or prefix (NXX) the city that NXX belongs to county that city resides in population of county prevalent zip code within NXX central office latitude and longitude of record for NXX (plus a feature for instantly calculating milage between NXXx) You can search based on State, NPA, city, NXX and/or zip code. The program is from : The PC Consultant P.O. Box 42086 Houston Tx 77242-2086 713-826-2629 (voice mail) CIS 73670,1164 The program database is updated regularly (the version I have is current to the end of March 1993). You can d/l it from me if you wish at 708-438-5065 (Alpine Village BBS) in my Files Area -- It's currently in the New Files UPload area -- the file name is NPA931.ZIP. Fill out the online registration and you'll be upgraded sufficiently to d/l the 634k file on the first call. I suggest hi-speed (9600b or 14,4k) since it's a 'big' program, even zipped. John Rice K9IJ | "Did I say that ?" I must have, but It was | MY opinion only, no one else's...Especially | Not my Employer's.... rice@ttd.teradyne.com | Purveyor of Miracles,Magic and Sleight-of-hand ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #489 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa28656; 19 Jul 93 11:19 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA02946 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 08:11:52 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA19683 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 08:11:00 -0500 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 08:11:00 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307191311.AA19683@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #490 TELECOM Digest Mon, 19 Jul 93 08:11:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 490 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: Prodigy Internet Gateway is Up! (Seng-Poh Lee) Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? (Chuck Forsberg) Re: Connecting Two Computers via RS-232 With a *Long* Cable (John Nagle) Re: ADSL Hitched to ISDN: The Happy Couple? (Fred R. Goldstein) Re: Does This Device Exist? (Floyd Davidson) Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year (Joel Upchurch) Re: Chicago Area Man Charged in Computer Porn Transmission (John Boteler) Re: Some More Historical Questions (Mark A. Terribile) Re: Were You a Victim of 900 Abuse? (Jim DePorter) Re: Phone Noises, Frequencies and Durations (Brendan O'Mara) Re: What's Going on With Payphone 2000? (John R. Levine) Re: The "Ultimate" Personal Telecom System (Ed Greenberg) Re: DID Chip? (Steve Forrette) Re: Escort Digital Cordless Telephone (Derek Strembicke) Re: How Can One Dial a US 1-800 Number From Canada? (Monty Solomon) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 21:48:17 -0400 From: Seng-Poh Lee Subject: Re: Prodigy Internet Gateway is Up! Organization: Public Domain Inc. In article was written: > Well, almost. Here's the current error you receive when you mail to a > userid@prodigy.com: > Subject: Returned mail: User unknown > Status: OR > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > While talking to mail.prodigy.com: > >>> RCPT To: > <<< 550 Invalid UserId. The Prodigy member id to which this message was sent > is either non-existent or not enrolled for InterNet messages > 550 jwbs90b@mail.prodigy.com... User unknown As a follow up, after I sent this e-mail, I logged onto Prodigy and found an e-mail message from the "Postmaster" to this effect: "An attempt was made to deliver mail from user@domain.com but since you are not signed up for Internet services, it could not be delivered. " The message also said to jump to the Internet area, at which point it informed me that the Internet gateway was under beta with some users. Information gathered from elsewhere indicate that Prodigy is going to charge $0.15 per 3K of each and every message. Seems a little cheap, since they currently charge, what, $0.25 per internal e-mail, over 30/month. Seng-Poh Lee [Moderator's Note: Since each issue of this Digest runs 21-24 K of text, that's 'merely' $1.05 - $1.20 per issue for Prodigy people. I think I'll make Prodigy cut me in for some percentage of it! :) Do they honestly think anyone on their service will be able to afford to be part of any mailing list originating on the Internet? PAT] ------------------------------ From: caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) Subject: Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? Organization: Omen Technology INC, Portland Rain Forest Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 02:52:47 GMT Most of my radios will tune up to 1710 kHz, including the radio in my 1990 Nissan and a recently purchased Sony receiver. My ITT cordless phone uses FM on 1750 kHz, so it's safe until the FCC decides to expand AM above 1710 kHz. I bought the phone used for $40, and the 1750 kHz base signal seems less susceptible to computer RFI than some other phones I've played with. When the expansion band stations start up, phones tuned to 1610-1710 will have to be retuned or their range will be severely diminished. Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ Omen Technology Inc "The High Reliability Software" 17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD Portland OR 97231 503-621-3406 [Moderator's Note: According to my friend William Pfieffer, Moderator of the rec.radio.broadcasting newsgroup, there *are already* some broacast stations operating up there licensed by the FCC. Does anyone know who they are? That was news to me. PAT] ------------------------------ From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle) Subject: Re: Connecting Two Computers via RS-232 With a *Long* Cable Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 03:11:41 GMT sysop@alphanet.ch (Marc SCHAEFER) writes: > I have a computer I would want to link to another computer which is > approximately 50 _meters_ away. There is no transfer problems at that > distance (checked by connecting two ports via 50 meter cable on the > same computer). However it may be possible that the 220V connection is > not the same on the two houses. So what could be the danger of > connecting the pins 2,3,7 (7 is signal ground, not protective ground) > at that distance ? The proper solution to this is called a "limited distance modem". These are devices designed to work over a four-wire hard-wired connection, rather than a phone line. These give you isolation, and will work even if there are ground voltage differentials between the two ends. Anybody know a cheap source for these? From a safety point of view, you may have electrical code problems running RS-232 outdoors. You really should have lightning protection whenever a wire enters a house. That's what the telco's "protector" on the outside of the house does. Most computers tie signal ground to protective ground, and the result of connecting two machines far apart is thus a ground loop. This can be a real problem if you have any significant ground voltage between the two houses. You can check this; just run a wire from one house to the other, and ground it to an outlet ground at one end. At the other end, use an AC voltmeter to read the voltage to an outlet ground at the other end. Try this with lots of energy-consuming appliances on. You may well see a few volts of AC. If you do, a direct connection probably isn't going to work consistently. If you experience lights dimming when a heavy load comes on, there's a good chance ground is noisy. If you have a two-wire system, where ground and neutral are one, don't even try. John Nagle ------------------------------ From: goldstein@isdnip.lkg.dec.com (Fred R. Goldstein) Subject: Re: ADSL Hitched to ISDN: The Happy Couple? Reply-To: goldstein@carafe.tay2.dec.com Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 03:22:27 GMT In article Tyson=Macaulay%DTP%DGCP= HQ=ADMSR@dgbt.banyan.doc.ca writes: > Now to the point. I have heard from a manager at Northern Telecom > that they are flirting with the idea of marrying ISDN to ADSL > (Asymmetrical Digital Subscriber Loop), thus retaining the signalling > standard that has been so pain-stakingly developed for ISDN, but > vastly increasing the transport capacity. ADSL-1 can provide 1.544 > Mbps over unshielded twisted pair (UTP), while ADSL-2 will move above > 3 Mbps and ADSL-3 can jam up to 6 Mbps over UTP. Now we are talking a > good base for multimedia applications to the home! Now we are talking > a type of access that will make networks count to citizens in the > future. From what I've seen of ADSL, it is designed (specifically) to coexist with ISDN BRI (or BRA as it's called in Canada :-) ). While the 1.544 (or higher) Mbps bandwidth is monodirectional, there's room for 2B+D bidirectionally. This is based on the way the spectrum on the line is allocated. BRI concentrates its energy around 40 kHz. ADSL has its energy over 100 kHz, so they don't interfere. You can even run POTS on the line, since its energy is below 4 kHz. Fred R. Goldstein goldstein@carafe.tay2.dec.com Opinions are mine alone; sharing requires permission ------------------------------ From: floyd@hayes.ims.alaska.edu (Floyd Davidson) Subject: Re: Does This Device Exist? Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 06:10:13 GMT In article ao944@yfn.ysu.edu (Jack Decker) writes: > This is mostly a curiosity question, but could have some practical > applications. > What I am wondering is if anyone makes a device that comes in two > parts, and that passes DC signalling and ringing through a "wet" line. > That's probably a confusing description; maybe a diagram will help: > ________ _____ _____ > |_|----|_| | "A" | | "B" | To > / \ |UNIT |==================|UNIT |======> Telco > /____\=========|_____| ("wet" circuit) |_____| or PBX > CPE line > The idea is, to the CPE (be it a "plain old telephone set" or > something else), the "A" and "B" units aren't there ... any outward > rotary dialing or hookswitch flashing will be processed normally, > while any incoming ring signal from the telco will be passed through > to the CPE. Ideally, the "A" and "B" units should provide sufficient > amplification so that to the CPE, the volume level is the same as if > it were actually connected to the line parallel to the "B" unit. Unit "A" is a FXS (for Foreign eXchange Station), and Unit "B" is a FXO (Foreign eXchange Office) equipment, card, or package. They won't do any of the other fancier things you had in mind like auto dial etc. But the "wet" circuit can be any standard voice grade carrier channel from here to anywhere. There are analog versions and there are digital versions made by almost every manufacturer of CO equipment. floyd@ims.alaska.edu A guest on the Institute of Marine Science computer Salcha, Alaska system at the University of Alaska at Fairbanks. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year From: upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 20:21:34 EDT Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL declrckd@rtsg.mot.com (Dan J. Declerck) writes: > Hmmm spoken by a true Infrastucture manufacturer (grin). Mobile and > portable phones use surface mount technologies, and replacing the > EPROMS would probably cost more than the phone is worth. Even if this > were possible, it would take YEARS to get all the old ones off the > street. Is it just me or does surface mounting the firmware sound really dumb? Most boards I've seen the ROM's will be socketed even if everything else is surface mounted. I'm not an EE, but I'd think that if I had to surface mount the ROM I'd use an EEPROM and design it so I could reprogram it in place. I doubt that someone is going to like hearing that their $1,000 phone's problem can't be fixed because the firmware can't be updated. Especially when a lot of the people that own them are lawyers that drop a class action suit on you so fast your head would spin. (If your mail bounces use the address below.) Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809 joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982 ------------------------------ From: bote@access.digex.net (John Boteler) Subject: Re: Chicago Area Man Charged in Computer Porn Transmission Date: 19 Jul 1993 03:13:00 -0400 Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA TELECOM Moderator writes: > A man in the Chicago suburb of Des Plaines, IL accused of transmitting > X-rated pictures to a 12-year-old boy via his computer bulletin board > According to the obscenity portion of the complaint, the boy told his > mother that he had been connected to the BBS and and downloaded files > depicting people engaged in various sexual acts. His mother then > notified the police. At which point she should have whacked the kid's ass but good, if she was so concerned about his well being. I am constantly amazed at how it is everybody's responsibility but the parents' to supervise children! bote@access.digex.net (John Boteler) [Moderator's Note: And that would be an excellent way to teach the child he should not trust his parents with questions or problems he is having. If he had come home and said someone had (tried to) sexually assault him, do you think she should have 'whacked his ass' then also? Now we don't have the whole story here by any means, but the report is *he told his mother* what happened; NOT that he said nothing and she found a bunch of 'dirty pictures' hidden away in his room. Had it been the latter, I might agree with you, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he accidentally unloaded this stuff from the BBS and was open enough in his relationship with his parents to tell them about it. If that is the case, his mother probably felt she *was* properly supervising her child by notifying the police of the 'crime' alleged to have occurred. On the other hand, it is quite possible the boy did misrepresent himself to the sysop of the BBS. That does not excuse the sysop for not making a better effort to voice-verify his users, but it certainly mitigates the sysop's liability. There is a lot not yet clearly understood in this case, but I don't think a response of 'whacking his ass' would be appropriate if he told his mother in a forthright way what happened. Where the sysop is going to have a hassle is explaining away those copyrighted pornographs which belonged to Playboy Enterprises. They'll sue him for sure! PAT] ------------------------------ From: mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us Subject: Re: Some More Historical Questions Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 01:13:32 GMT In article , mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us writes: > Cast your minds back to the summer of 1969, those of you who are old > enough ... And those of you who are not ... imagine the hush in millions > of homes as the first pictures come back from the moon. ... Imagine > [the] view of a ladder, the black shape ... changing as the hatch is > opened, the clumsy white form stepping backwards ... > [Moderator's Note: ... At the time, I had a part-time job running the > switchboard at the South Shore Country Club weekend evenings. Normally > that three-position board was ... busy all the time; that night it was > dead. Everyone ... was ... watching the 'moon walk' .... And not a peep > from anyone. Dead silence with their eyes glued on the picture. ... Do > you recall the twenty minutes or so of totally dead audio on CBS? Just > silence as the camera followed those guys around, ... Does anyone have any CO or LD stats from that Friday night/Saturday morning? How many calls weren't made during the telecast? And how many were made just afterwards? I remember how the {NY Times}, whose front page is designed with an eye towards posterity, ran the largest type they have ever used -- larger than for VE or VJ day. They devoted virtually the whole front page to the headline and photo -- perhaps the only time they've done it. I _wish_ I'd gotten a copy. (According to _The History of Manned Space Flight_, the NYT ran almost a million copies -- and reran the whole issue the next day.) (This man's opinions are his own.) From mole-end Mark Terribile mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us, Somewhere in Matawan, NJ [Moderator's Note: It was Sunday night about 8-9 PM here in the USA; during the overnight/early morning hours Monday morning in the UK and Soviet Union and Monday noon in Australia. The papers here ran a big full page picture on Monday also, showing the guys installing the US flag on the moon. Do you remember how on all the television stations for the next two or three months whenever the station had 30 seconds or so of time to fill before a station-ID or after a program ended they would show that segment on the screen with 'America the Beautiful' playing in the background ... just thirty seconds or so ... enough to make sure no one forgot ... as if you ever could. PAT] ------------------------------ From: jimd@SSD.intel.com (Jim DePorter) Subject: Re: Were You a Victim of 900 Abuse? Organization: Supercomputer System Division, Intel Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 01:29:22 GMT mking@fsd.com (Mike King) writes: > She could also hang up to disconnect an abusive caller; she simply > called back to continue her shift. I'm sorry, but could someone explain to me what a caller could say to be abusive on a phone sex line at $?? per minute? I've never called one, so I have no idea what a *normal* call is like, and I'm not really interested, it just seemed weird to hear there could be abusive callers to a phone sex line ... jimd ------------------------------ From: omarab@CSOS.ORST.EDU (Jack the Ripper) Subject: Re: Phone Noises, Frequencies and Durations Date: 19 Jul 1993 07:18:19 GMT Organization: CS Outreach Services, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR, USA Steve Forrette (stevef@wrq.com) wrote: > For the standard calling card "bong," there is a particular Bellcore > standard. I used something that was easiest for me to implement, and > it sounds quite close to the real thing. I use 60ms of "#" tone > (941Hz and 1477Hz), followed by a decaying dialtone sound that lasts > one second, with the amplitude at full volume at the beginning of the > second, ramping down linearly to 0 amplitude at the end of the second. What kind of EQUIPMENT do you guys use for all your tone generations? Brendan O'Mara omarab@jacobs.cs.orst.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 20:03 EDT From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Subject: Re: What's Going on With Payphone 2000? Organization: I.E.C.C. In article was written: >[terminals in AT&T Payphone 2000 phones don't work] It was my impression that the problem with the PP2000 terminals was that AT&T didn't have a proper tariff for the service. In ancient days, this wasn't a problem. Back in about 1982 in the Eastern Airlines (I said this was ancient) terminal at Logan airport there was an experimental pay terminal installed by the local telco, New England Tel. It was a coinless payphone with a screen and a membrane keyboard in a very sturdy floor-standing case. Someone had chained a chair to it. It worked OK when I used it to call Telenet's 800 number to log into a computer in Los Angeles and check my mail at 1200 bps. I never saw anyone else use it. There was no charge beyond that for the call; like the PP2000 it suffered from being rather expensive to use if the number you want to call could be called for a dime if the phone only had a coin slot. Yes, I realize the problems with putting a coin slot on a non-voice phone, but it would be nice anyway. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl ------------------------------ From: edg@netcom.com (Ed Greenberg) Subject: Re: The "Ultimate" Personal Telecom System Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 01:04:32 GMT In article patrick@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Patrick Goebel) writes: > Please keep in mind that money is currently not an issue, so anything > goes. If you have any ideas how I might go about putting together > such a system, please give me a shout. I was considering writing a serious reply to this, and helping to envision such a system until I reached the bottom paragraph and lost interest. Any idea that comes with the above will obviously not see the light of day commercially, and if this Stanford student (or maybe faculty menber, I don't know) is learning to design systems on the basis of "money is not an issue" and "anything goes" he's getting quite a useless education for the real world. I hate to say it, but money is always an issue. THe development of a product will compete with every other project in the same institution for a limited r&d budget. There will be strong pull from three directions, to produce a product with the cheapest cost, greatest feature set and largest margins possible. Equipment cost, software cost, development cost, end user cost, airtime cost to the end user, all will influence the project. I was really excited when I read this post, but this is just speculation, unless a serious approach to the economics of the project is taken. Sorry to be so negative. I've been in budget meetings all week, trying to justify costs of a project. It's frustrating, when one realizes that there's more to a project than the engineering. Ed Greenberg edg@netcom.com Ham Radio: KM6CG ------------------------------ From: stevef@wrq.com (Steve Forrette) Subject: Re: DID Chip? Date: 19 Jul 1993 02:56:55 GMT Organization: Walker Richer & Quinn, Inc. Reply-To: stevef@wrq.com (Steve Forrette) In goldstein@isdnip.lkg.dec.com (Fred R. Goldstein) writes: > In article rothen+@pitt.edu (Seth B > Rothenberg) writes: >> Having resolved that there's no cheaper substitute for DID service, I >> would like to ask if there is anyone who knows where I could find out >> if there is a chip that supports DID? > DID is a service delivered by the central office. Basically, the > phone company sells you a whole heap of numbers for a price, and > prefaces each incoming call with the last few digits, either pulsed or > toned. > Since it's the numbers you're buying from their owner (phone company), > 'tain't nuttin' you can do with any chip to get them elsewhere. Seth was not entirely off base. Although it is true that you must purchase DID service from the telco, you also need special equipment on your end. The numbers are indeed delivered to you via pulse or inband tone, but it is not done on standard loop-start lines. The telco needs to you to support 'DID trunk' lines. DID is set up so that you are in effect the terminating CO for the call. This means that you must provide the telco with the -48V on the line, instead of the other way around. You must reverse the DC polarity to indicate when you want to supervise the call. There are several other aspects to this protocol. So, you can't just do something like hook up a modem that will decode DTMF and expect to get DID from the telco. You need special equipment. There is stand-alone equipment which converts DID trunks to loop start trunks for use with standard DTMF-decoding modems, fax cards, or voicemail cards for PC's. There are also specialized cards that go into the PC that do DID directly, but these require special external power supplies to be hooked up to the cards, as the PC doesn't have the -48V internally. Of course, there is more traditional equipment and PBXs designed for DID use as well. Steve Forrette, stevef@wrq.com ------------------------------ From: strem@ee.ualberta.ca (Derek Strembicke) Subject: Re: Escort Digital Cordless Telephone Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 23:04:11 -0600 dave@TIS.COM (David I. Dalva) writes: > Has anybody here had any experience with the new Escort (Cincinnati > Microwave) digital cordless telephone that lists for $399? How does > it compare to the Tropez? Yes, I too am interested to hear about this phone. I have read the ad, but never seen a 'review' of it in any consumer electronics mags. As I own the Tropez, I am curious why the extra cost (Tropez = $399 Canadian). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1993 05:46:42 -0400 From: Monty Solomon Subject: Re: How Can One Dial a US 1-800 Number From Canada? > A friend in Canada wants to dial 1-800 numbers in the US from Canada > but most of the time he cannot. I know there used to be a number in > the US he could call to dial out 1-800 numbers but I forgot it. (I > don' t even know if it is still running.) From: rkobenter@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Newsgroups: rec.video.satellite Subject: 1-800 phone nr from Canada Date: 6 Oct 92 09:38:52 -0700 1-800's: If you want to dial a US 1-800 number there are gateways you can dial in from. For example in Bellingham, Washington there is the number: 206-xxx-xxxx You will hear a dial tone then enter the American 1-800, you get charged to Bellingham, so someone in BC will not see too high a phone bill. [Moderator's Note: I blanked out the number above because it is NOT a 'gateway to reach USA 800 numbers' ... it is the private call extender of an institution in Washington State! Oh, I know phreaking has never bothered *some people* who read this Digest, but I am not going to print numbers so they can be deliberatly abused. PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #490 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa11530; 19 Jul 93 23:46 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA01299 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 21:00:45 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA19114 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 21:00:00 -0500 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 21:00:00 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307200200.AA19114@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #491 TELECOM Digest Mon, 19 Jul 93 21:00:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 491 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Telecom Adventures in the Czech Republic (Richard Budd) The Next Step: Affinity Long Distance (Ken Jongsma) Sprint Instant Foncard (Mike Pollock) Portable PCs in a Fleet of Cars (Tina Argente) Flow Control With Unixware (David Mason) What is a "Dumb" Terminal (Mark Hayes) ANI and Overseas Calls Question (Georg Schwarz) 911 For Non-Emergencies? (was Re: Natwick 911 Drama) (Elana Beach) AT&T Direct-Connect From Directory Assistance (Carl Moore) Want Cheap Analog Data PBX (Joe Van Andel) ANI and Billing (Todd Lesser) Big Rivers (Erik A. Speckman) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 17:38:58 EDT From: Richard Budd Subject: TELECOM Adventures in the Czech Republic Organization: CSAV UTIA You don't have to travel far from Prague to discover that telecommuni- cations in the Czech Republic have a long distance (pardon the pun) to go. The past two weeks were spent at a hotel in Kostelec nad Cernymi Lesi, about 40 kilometers east of Prague, as a teacher at an English language camp. My students were Russian language teachers who discovered there was little demand for learning Russian after the Velvet Revolution and are learning to teach English instead. (Worse off were those teachers who taught Marx-Lenin idealogy in the high schools. In the gymnasium in Prague where I taught, two of them became computer science teachers.) There were few private telephones and only one public phone in this town. In the hotel where I stayed, calling outside Kostelec involved asking the reception desk. The woman at the desk would call an operator in Prague who would then call the operator of the town you were trying to call. Forget using a calling card or even hoping to get AT&T tone. The lady said my best chance of reaching the United States was through the post office across the street which was open from 8:00 until 11:00AM, took a two hour break for lunch, and then was open from 1:00 to 3:00PM. The hotel phone was in a locked booth across from the receptionist desk. The woman behind the counter would place the call from a second phone from a side room in back of desk and when the call came through, would rush out to the phone booth, unlock the door, and gesture you to pick up the phone. The first time I tried the hotel phone, it was to call Prague. To telephone 30 kilometers took two tries and the connection was horrible. All I heard was this hissing sound and the person on the other side of the line barely saying something in Czech. I had to yell in the telephone to have her hear me. Need- less to say, it was not a long conversation. The cost this one-minute call was Kc9.40. (About 30 cents.) I later tried the pay phone down the street with better results. I made two calls to Prague and one to Kral'ovsky Chlmec. I noticed with the Prague calls that the telephone display would say in English 'connecting to a trunk line'. I later found out the town had three trunk lines going out of it. Later that night, I had to call back to Kral'ovsky Chlmec and tried the pay phone only to discover that every number was blocked except emergency numbers and that it would not accept coins. I have yet to see a card phone in the Czech Republic outside of the Prague city limits. So it was back to the hotel to try to call Slovakia. The receptionist was excited about making a call to the former other half of the country and also took it upon herself to teach me to pronounce 'Kral'ovsky Chlmec' correctly. You say it KRAL oof skee HA loo mets. After about five minutes and two operators she got through to my friend there (who was getting ready to fly to the United States for one year of study in Philadelphia). He needed instructions for giving his flight number and arrival time to the person who was going to meet him in New York so we were on the telephone for over five minutes. Once one hangs up, you have to go back to the reception desk while the receptionist calls the Prague operator who calls the Slovak operator to find out how much the telephone call was. You then pay the hotel receptionist right there. It was a big surprise to discover for speaking five times as long to a town over a hundred times farther away than Prague that it cost LESS THAN double the call to Prague -- Kc18.40 (or 55 cents). For incoming calls, the operator would tell the receptionist that a certain person had a call from a certain town. The family in Kral'ovsky Chlmec would call me twice more during my time in Kostelec. The receptionist would come into the classroom, say to me I had a call, and urge me to rush down to the telephone booth and pick up the telephone before the operator disconnected the phone. Of course, she had to unlock the door to the telephone booth first. BTW, the pay phone was out for six days. I noticed it was working the day before the seminar ended. You can tell. There would always be two or three people standing in line waiting to use it. I made a prediction that by the year 2000, I could make a direct-dial telephone call from Kostelec to New York City from the hotel. The receptionist had a good laugh with that one. Richard Budd After 7/21/93 please send e-mail to klub@maristb.bitnet or use snail mail to Kossuth ut. 69, 077 01 Kral'ovsky Chlmec, SLOVAKIA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 14:06:08 EDT From: Ken Jongsma Reply-To: jongsma@swdev.si.com Subject: The Next Step: Affinity Long Distance Just when you were getting tired of every business you've ever dealt with trying to get you to sign up with their version of a Visa/Mastercard, along comes affinity long distance. I received a call last night from someone purporting to be from my alumni association. I say purporting because it was obvious that I had been called by one of those call directors we have recently discussed. The ones that connect you to an agent after it detects you saying "Hello ..." Anyway, the agent assured me she didn't want any money. She just wanted to sign me up for Southern Illinois University long distance. I said no thanks and hung up. This must be the latest fad in fund raising. Presumably the alumni association gets some small percentage as a commission for using their name and mailing lists. Kenneth R Jongsma jongsma@swdev.si.com Smiths Industries 73115.1041@compuserve.com Grand Rapids, Michigan +1 616 241 7702 [Moderator's Note: Actually Ken, 'affinity long distance' has been around for quite awhile. It is used a lot by non-profit organizations as a way to bring in extra money. Here at the Digest, telecom affinity products have been available since early this year with the residuals used to help pay the production costs involved with this Digest and newsgroup. I offer a telephone calling card, 1+ service, prepaid debit card style calling cards, 800 numbers and other products. Since people use the phone a lot anyway, their use of these products through an 'affinity program' is a painless way to support something they believe in or enjoy. TELECOM Digest receives residuals on a continuing basis when readers participate in these programs. Interested readers are invited to ask for more details: ptownson@eecs.nwu.edu PAT] ------------------------------ From: Mike.Pollock@p19.f228.n2613.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Pollock) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 19:16:54 -0500 Subject: Sprint Instant Foncard What's with this Sprint Instant Foncard thing? Apparently it's a point-of purchase prepaid calling card which you can buy at your local convenience store. This is the text of their comic book-looking brochure on the product: "Introducing The Sprint Instant Foncard(sm): "You want to make a long-distance phone call ... but you don't have any change ... you think of the Sprint Instant Foncard(sm) ... With the Sprint Instant Foncard(sm) you can pay in advance for $5, $10, or $20 worth of long distance calling. Just buy it at the counter ... No credit application necessary. Use your instant Foncard(sm) to make a long distance call from any touch-tone phone ... "To make a call: 1) Dial 800# on the back of card. 2) Enter card number. 3) Make your call. "Call anyone, anywhere in the US, Canada and the Caribbean ... Plus over 290 countries and locations. When your minutes are all used up ... just throw it away and buy another one. Nothing could be more convenient. "It's easy to buy right here. Just ask your cashier. Sprint Instant Foncard(sm) The easy coinless way to call long distance." While they make a big deal about the card, they don't make a big deal about the card, they don't make a big deal about the per-minute rate, which is about 60 cents a minute. There's no initial minute surcharge, but 60 cents a minute is quite a bit steeper than a real Foncard, which has a 60 cent or so surcharge, and around 12-25 cents a minute, depending on time of day. Any thoughts? Mike [Moderator's Note: There are lots of these things going around now. The 'official prepaid phone card of the Digest' (what a title!) is one called 'Talk Ticket'. You buy them from the Digest. My traffic on these cards is carried by AT&T. The price on these $5, $10 and $20 cards is 45 cents per minute; like the others with no surcharge. You buy the cards for ten percent off, that is $4.50, $9, or $18. Bigger quantities get bigger discounts. You can also get ten $2 cards for $15 which comes out to 39 cents per minute. 60 cents is kind of a ripoff IMHO. You can purchase Talk Tickets electronically via your modem and get the operative information -- the serial numbers -- back the same way if you desire since the Digest is a merchant on the Electronic Funds Transfer network; or of course you can send a check in the mail if you prefer, its your choice. You can also be a seller of the Talk Ticket yourself at a 25 percent profit: $2500 in assorted ticket denominations for $1875. Keep all the commission or split it with friends, or establishments you sell to, etc. Send orders to the Digest office: Telecom Digest / 2241 W. Howard #208 / Chicago IL 60645 or call the office: 312-465-2700. PAT] ------------------------------ Subject: Portable PCs in a Fleet of Cars Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 16:18:43 PDT From: Tina Argente I've been asked to check into the feasibility of installing portable PC's into a fleet of cars, and having the PC's communicate somehow with a remote host computer. I think some police departments do something like this already, if I'm not mistaken, but I don't know exactly how the communications take place. Is anyone familiar with how this can be done? Are there wireless modems readily available for mobile use, or do they use a cellular phone hookup, or what? Thanks for any help or insights anyone can offer! ------------------------------ From: vid@io.org (David Mason) Subject: Flow Control With Unixware Date: 19 Jul 1993 22:14:24 GMT Organization: Internex Online - Toronto, Canada (416) 363-3783 I asked this question on the Unixware mailing list with no success so far. We're using Univel Unixware with a Digiboard 16 port intelligent board. There are 8 Practical Peripherial PM14400FXMT modems and two USR Dual Standard fax modems (the 16,800 baud models). I have a few requests for help: The PP modems are good modems, but they don't appear to support locking the port speed. Am I missing something or is the manual inadequate? The people at Digi seem to think they do. The modems sometimes lose "TR" and have to be turned off then on, or the system has to be rebooted. Finally, and most annoyingly of all, Unixwhere has a "slight" glitch - no support for hardware modem flow control. It's supposed to be there but doesn't work. In other words CTXSON and RTSXOFF don't work at all, stty doesn't recognize them, even though they are in the man page. Univel is aware of the problem, and expects a fix in 30 to 60 days, but in terms of magnitude to us it is affecting our system very badly. Is there ANY work around that anyone knows of? Basically what happens is that people can view text or download with no problems, but they can't type too quickly, or use macro keys, or cursor keys, or upload files, because it gets corrupted. Finally, while I am here and this is sort of applicable, does anyone know of any inexpensive device/card/whatever that would allow us to reset the systems remotely? Sometimes one of them will die and it isn't possible to come here quickly to reboot, so I'd like to be able to do it remotely. Even something as simple as something that hooked to a phone line and put the power off for a minute then on when triggered properly would be good. Io Public Access Internet Toronto, Ontario Canada (416) 363-3783 ------------------------------ From: ccmlh@it.bu.edu (Mark Hayes) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 18:44:58 -0400 Subject: What is a "Dumb" Terminal? Can anyone provide, or, even better, direct me to a reliable published definition of what the term "dumb terminal" standardly means at this point in computing history? I'm having an argument with someone who insists that "dumb terminals" are any terminals that aren't full-fledged computers in their own right (as are X-terminals). I think such a definition is, well, dumb. This person is classifying *all ASCII terminals* (e.g., VT-220's) as "dumb" in this sense, and actually teaching this terminology to a class. So either way, I could use a reference. If they're wrong, as I'm pretty sure they are, I'd like to be able to document it to them. If, on the other hand, *I'm* wrong, I'd certainly like to know it! Private e-mail replies would be much appreciated. Thanks! ------------------------------ From: georg@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de (Georg Schwarz) Subject: ANI and Overseas Calls Question Date: 19 Jul 1993 12:58:23 GMT Organization: TUBerlin/ZRZ Is the ANI information being transmitted on overseas calls, e.g. on a call from Europe to the US or Canada? What is the current technical (and legal) status? Thanks! ------------------------------ From: elana@netcom.com (Elana Beach) Subject: 911 For Non-Emergencies? (was Re: Natwick 911 Drama) Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 16:12:50 GMT Someone posted here that they tried to report a threatening phone caller to the police, and in asking the local police how to report it, they told him/her to call 911. (!!!) They had no way to report non-emergencies than via 911? Ultimate stupidity. My memory is not clear on the details, but around two years ago, there was some kind of incident here in Portland, Oregon where a kid was seriously hurt -- someone had shot a gun outside the house and the bullet had struck the kid who was playing inside on the living room floor. Now if I remember right, the mother frantically called 911 and got many rings but no answer. So of course she calls several times, each time losing her place in the queue. The kid died for lack of a fast, emergency response. A lot of people screamed about it, and public attention was focused on the fact that the local 911 system was clogged with non-emergency calls. So the local cops did the right thing: created a special number for non-emergencies. A lot of publicity happened to promote the non-emergency number, resulting in an appreciative response from the public. Now, if you call 911 in the Portland area to complain about the neighbor's dog barking, the dispatcher has a way of dealing with it. He/she will hit a button which will instantly get you a recording telling you that 911 is for emergencies only. The recording then gives you the non-emergency number. Definetly an improvement on the old system! However what *I* want to know is: how many 911 systems have this sort of common-sense setup in place? Is Portland unusual this way? What is the norm? -Elana [Moderator's Note: We get the same kind of run-around here in Chicago unfortunatly, with police in the district stations telling callers to use 911 for anything and everything. This is really a shame because on a busy Saturday night, 911 here can take four or five rings to answer, and then it has generally overflowed to a supervisor's desk. Little children getting shot by stray bullets is nothing new here; we've had a few this year and I think we had a dozen or so last year. With 39 children dead this year in Chicago from one form of violence or another -- and the year is only half over -- most folks here have become desensitized. Most parents simply keep their young children in the house at all times and remind them to stay away from the windows. The Chicago Police generally don't investigate non-violent crimes here any longer; they don't have the personnel. It is pretty much official now that our public schools are not going to be open during the school year starting in September; they are $400 million short, so this fall will be a particularly dangerous time for the kids here 'home alone' with parents at work, etc. We are supposed to get a new 911 center as well, this will be an improvement in police response time. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 12:53:36 EDT From: Carl Moore Subject: AT&T Direct-Connect From Directory Assistance I used 10288-0-703-555-1212 via AT&T from Wilmington, Delaware, and after I got the number I asked for, I was given the option of connecting to it for an 85 cent charge. I pressed 2 to decline (1 would have been "accept"). ------------------------------ From: vanandel@rsf.atd.ucar.edu (Joe Van Andel) Subject: Want Cheap Analog Data PBX Organization: National Center for Atmospheric Research Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 16:54:49 GMT I have a small group of users (<32), that want to share one or two analog lines for data communications from PCs. Does anyone have a recommendation on an inexpensive data PBX that would allow this? Alternatively, does anyone have good experience with any software that transparently allows networked PC's (currently PCNFS) to share modems? Thanks very much. Respond via email, since I don't ordinarily read this group. (I already searched for a FAQ for comp.dcom.telecom in several places, but couldn't find one. So, forgive me if I'm asking a FAQ!) Joe VanAndel Internet:vanandel@ncar.ucar.edu National Center for Atmospheric Research [Moderator's Note: The Telecom FAQ is published about once a month in the Usenet comp.dcom.telecom newsgroup and it is available also in the Telecom Archives using anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu. Or, readers may write and ask for a copy: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 10:07 PDT From: todd@silo.info.com (Todd Lesser) Reply-To: Todd Lesser Subject: ANI and Billing By accident I deleted the original post or I would have included it in my response: Several questions were posted to the Digest about ANI and what happens if ANI is not delivered to the IXC (Long Distance Carrier) and/or the customer. Does the call go through, and how is it billed? If the customer, the company who has the 800 and/or 900 number, has an agreement with the IXC to get ANI when the call is delivered, they receive it whenever the IXC gets it. If the IXC doesn't get the ANI, the call usually originated from a small LEC (Local Exchange Carrier) or from an old type Central Office. (CO) In this case, the customer, receives an ANI (At least this is how my company receives it from MCI, Sprint, and AT&T) with just Area Code + seven zeros. I have never seen it give the prefix and four zeros, nor have I seen it on a bill with Area code, prefix and four zeros -- unless of course the number really did end in four zeros. Usually, an IXC creates a billing tape from the ANI and sends it to the LEC for billing. From the CO's it doesn't get ANI; the LEC does all the billing or provides the IXC with a billing tape. This is how a caller is billed for toll calls and 900 calls -- the caller doesn't get the calls for free. In some instances a 900 provider does its own billing, so these companies usually block calls when they don't get an actual ANI. Todd Lesser Info Connections (619) 459-7500 Voice (619) 459-4600 Fax or ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 20:56 PDT From: especkma@reed.edu (Erik. A Speckman) Subject: Big Rivers Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon IN a Moderator's note you added to a previous post, you mentioned the shift in the confluence of the Missouri into the Mississippi. I thought you might be interested in one of the chapters in John McPhee's book "The Control of Nature" (1989) called _Achafalaya_. The upshot of this is that there is a river, and acompanying swampland, called the Achafalaya. In the past water spilled over the banks of the Mississippi and moved over and through this area. It has long been a forgone conclusion that the Mississippi would like to cut its main channel through the Achafalya to the gulf. The result would leave Baton Rouge and New Orleans high and dry (or low and dry) and the petrochemical industries billion dollar plants without a vital source of cooling water and transportation. Since the middle of this century the army core of engineers have been fighting the river with massive, earthen and reinforced concrete controll structures. During a flood in 1973 the core was forced to leave all of the flood control gates open in order to divert water into the Achafalya and lessen damage downstream on the Mississippi. As a result the control structures were undermined by water and almost failed. Since then the ACE has repaired and rebuilt the control structures at that point but there are other places that the bank could fail. At normal times I believe the level of water in the Mississippi is about 10 feet higher than the water in the river that runs through the swamp less less than a hundred yards away. I wonder what will happen when the flood waters reach the lower Mississippi this year. If the Mississippi changes its course and by-passes the commercial and industrial centers of Louisana its significance will be quite notable. Erik Speckman especkma@romulus.reed.edu [Moderator's Note: And don't think the nice folks in Mississippi and Louisiana are not watching the wicked scene up in Iowa and Missouri very closely ... they know they are next, and that when Mother Nature comes to visit she won't be kept waiting. This should be a very in- teresting summer. What do you bet parts of Iowa and Missouri *never* get rid of all that water and what had been farmland becomes swamp insntead? Des Moines will be a long time in recovering. PAT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #491 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa21295; 21 Jul 93 2:05 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA23620 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Tue, 20 Jul 1993 23:39:58 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA25857 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Tue, 20 Jul 1993 23:39:00 -0500 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 23:39:00 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307210439.AA25857@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #492 TELECOM Digest Tue, 20 Jul 93 23:38:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 492 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: Is CIS Blocking Internet? (Bruce Sullivan) Re: Is CIS Blocking Internet? (Arthur Rubin) Re: Is CIS Blocking Internet? (Roger Fajman) Re: Big Rivers (David Roe) Re: Big Rivers (Ihor J. Kinal) Re: Big Rivers (David W. Hatunen) Re: Big Rivers (Don Wegeng) Re: Flooding in Iowa (Bill Marshall) Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? (Paul Robinson) Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? (Jim Haynes) Re: Prodigy Internet Gateway is Up! (David Appell) Re: White House Orders No-Bid Phone System (Rich Greenberg) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 23:26 GMT From: Bruce Sullivan Subject: Re: Is CIS Blocking Internet? In TELECOM Digest V13 #485, phil@wubios.WUstl.edu (J. Philip Miller) writes: > I cannot speak to current policies, but the folks at CIS in the past > have been concerned about the "allowable use policy" (AUP) of the > Internet. Using that as a rationale, they would block mail to > MCIMail, for example ... And in the same issue, our Esteemed Moderator notes: > {Moderator's Note: Except Phil, email between CIS <=> MCI Mail has > never gone through the Internet so far as I know, although it could. ...AND.... > .................or they can choose to have mail go to Internet: > 0001234567@mcimail.com, for example. I have accounts on both MCI mail and CIS. Unless policies have changed -- and I believe they have not -- you cannot send from one mail service to another via a third. In other words, I can't send to 4544760@mcimail.com from Compuserve via Internet, nor can I send to 72747.2737@compuserve.com from MCI mail via Internet. Technically, it's possible. However, neither service will let you do it. It's more likely a billing issue than anything else. If I send to my MCI account from my CIS account via internet, who does MCI bill? Bruce Sullivan (4544760@mcimail.com OR 72747.2737@compuserve.com) [Moderator's Note: But I send several dozen copies of each issue of this Digest to MCI Mail accounts from here. Who does MCI Mail bill now? I send many copies to subscribers who wish to receive the Digest in their CIS mailbox. Who does CIS bill? At least in the case of CIS mail from the Internet -- regardless of *who gave it to the Internet or it originated on the Internet itself* -- is billed to the subscriber and counted against their mail allowance. I don't think either service cares *who* gave the mail to the Internet; it just that they know they can't collect from the sender, so they collect from the recipient. Of course I could see why Internet would have objections to being a third party delivery service under the circumstances. PAT] ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Is CIS Blocking Internet? From: a_rubin%dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin) Date: 20 Jul 93 19:53:47 GMT Reply-To: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin) TELECOM Moderator noted: > [Moderator's Note: Except Phil, email between CIS <=> MCI Mail has > never gone through the Internet so far as I know, although it could. > CIS had a mail exchange in place with both MCI Mail and ATT Mail long > before they had the Internet gateway. I talking to someone on CIS about that a while ago. Apparently, CIS quietly drops mail to "Internet" with "mcimail" in the address, to avoid not being paid for the mail questions. Arthur L. Rubin: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (work) Beckman Instruments/Brea 216-5888@mcimail.com 70707.453@compuserve.com arthur@pnet01.cts.com (personal) My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of my employer. [Moderator's Note: Let me see if I understand your terminology. Are you saying that CIS discards mail to MCI Mail if the subscriber routes it via mcimail.com? Is that what you mean by 'drop', ie, drop = discard or throw out? All moderators get accused of 'dropping' mail they don't feel like using in their digests, etc. Or did you mean something else, such as perhaps their mailer is smart enough to diddle mcimail.com into something else and send it direct? Please clarify. I think it would be quite interesting to receive factual evidence that CIS was throwing out mail. Surely you did not mean that, or did you? PAT] ------------------------------ From: Roger Fajman Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 18:49:31 EDT Subject: Re: Is CIS Blocking Internet? > I cannot speak to current policies, but the folks at CIS in the past > have been concerned about the "allowable use policy" (AUP) of the > Internet. Using that as a rationale, they would block mail to > MCIMail, for example. I never saw an explicit statement of the code > they used for this blocking, but it might block everything to a .org > domain address. I have heard of a problem with this, although I can't recall for sure whether it was with MCI Mail or Compuserve. The problem occurred when subscribers joined Internet mailing lists. One user on a commercial service would send a message to the mailing list. Users on the other service would be blocked from receiving the posting. The statement was that this was done to keep subscribers on two commercial services from communicating via the Internet because of acceptable use policy concerns. However, I don't see why there would be any AUP concern, as long as both commercial services are connected to a commercial Internet provider, such as Alternet, ANS CORE, PSI, or Sprintlink. Those providers have no restrictions on commercial use. Depending on the location of the mailing list, the message might pass through a portion of the Internet that does have an AUP. But that seems to me to be more of a concern to the owner of the mailing list than anyone else. I wonder if the concern arises more from a potential loss of revenue to the commercial services than from worry about Internet AUPs. Roger Fajman Telephone: +1 301 402 4265 National Institutes of Health BITNET: RAF@NIHCU Bethesda, Maryland, USA Internet: RAF@CU.NIH.GOV [Moderator's Note: Could we please have a responsible employee from both CIS and MCI Mail respond to this thread? Thank you. PAT] ------------------------------ From: roe@sbctri.sbc.com (David Roe) Subject: Re: Big Rivers Date: 20 Jul 1993 19:18:50 GMT Organization: Southwestern Bell Technology Resources In article , especkma@reed.edu (Erik. A Speckman) wrote: > Since the middle of this century the army core of engineers have been > fighting the river with massive, earthen and reinforced concrete > control structures. Erik, We took those levees for granted until floods came. Across the Mississippi from St. Louis, there is an enormous levee that follows the "Great River Road" that must be at least 50 feet above the highway, with water within a handful of feet from the top of the other side. We drove down behind the River Wall at the Arch last night-- there was a stream of water coming out of a seam in the Wall, roughly the diameter of your thumb, shooting out a couple of feet. Orange paint around it; presumably a "known problem". My son asked "if that broke, would these windows on these stores break too?". We didn't stay long. > [Moderator's Note:... This should be a very interesting summer. > What do you bet parts of Iowa and Missouri *never* get rid of all that > water and what had been farmland becomes swamp insntead? Des Moines > will be a long time in recovering. PAT] I hope we get rid of it!! Next peril: mosquitos. David M. Roe, Director roe@sbctri.sbc.com Southwestern Bell Technology Resources ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY LABORATORY 1010 Pine St. Room 635 St. Louis, MO 63101-3099 PHONE: 314-235-7200 FAX: 314-235-5797 [Moderator's Note: Mosquitos are certainly Enemies of the People, but of equal concern are the thousands of dead animal carcasses beginning to float to the top of the water in some places, and the thousands of larger animal carcasses expected to be found on the bottom when the water drains out, i.e. cows, horses, pigs. Mr. Roe's message was sent earlier Tuesday before he could have possibly known that another major levie break occurred late Tuesday afternoon at South St. Louis, MO. This latest break caused flood waters to rise to five feet ('about shoulder level' was the way NPR described in their news bulletin) in a matter of ten minutes in the local area. Having expected the worst for several days, apparently the city was in emergency response mode in a matter of minutes with workers out there trying to stop the flow however they could. My contact at the EFT network I use is in a major bank in St. Louis. She said earlier today the city of Granite City, IL lost their Water Works when the engorged river overflowed its banks there and put the pumping station and filtration plant under several feet of water. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 15:36:45 EDT From: ijk@trumpet.att.com Subject: Re: Big Rivers Organization: AT&T > [Moderator's Note: And don't think the nice folks in Mississippi and > Louisiana are not watching the wicked scene up in Iowa and Missouri > very closely ... they know they are next, and that when Mother Nature > comes to visit she won't be kept waiting. Actually, according to the news reports that I've managed to catch, that's ONE thing that is unlikely to happen [problems in New Orleans]. Old Man River broadens considerably below Cairo, where the Ohio joins. I believe that lower river is only at 2/3 capacity, even with all the current flooding. [knock on wood]. Of course, if the front widens over the Ohio, or another hurricane like Andrew dumps a load of rain, or ... [Meanwhile, the SE is baking due to a lack rain]. Standard disclaimers, Ihor Kinal att!cbnewsh!ijk [now why did my insurance company send me a reminder about flood insurance last week -- could it be a coincidence??????????????] [Moderator's Note: Old Man River is a mile wide at its widest point I believe, and that is somewhere south of St. Louis I thought. I remember as a child I rode across it in a car with my parents and how impressive it looked at that point. PAT] ------------------------------ From: hatunen@netcom.com (David W Hatunen) Subject: Re: Big Rivers Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 14:44:37 GMT In article especkma@reed.edu (Erik. A Speckman) writes: > In a Moderator's note you added to a previous post, you mentioned the > shift in the confluence of the Missouri into the Mississippi. I > thought you might be interested in one of the chapters in John > McPhee's book "The Control of Nature" (1989) called _Achafalaya_. [Discussion of role of the control structure which prevents the Mighty Mississipp' from following its natural inclination to follow the steepest incline to the Gulf through Morgan City LA thereby wiping out New Orleans' role as a major seaport (except that the Feds will probably spend billions of dollars to create a deep water channel to replace the river) deleted] > I wonder what will happen when the flood waters reach the lower > Mississippi this year. If the Mississippi changes its course and > by-passes the commercial and industrial centers of Louisana its > significance will be quite notable. I might suggest that this newsgroup and its moderator have strayed a little from their area of expertise. Although it is probably inevitable that sooner or later a major flood on the Lower Mississippi will wipe out the control works and devestate Louisiana, this is not the flood that will do it. > [Moderator's Note: And don't think the nice folks in Mississippi and > Louisiana are not watching the wicked scene up in Iowa and Missouri > very closely ... they know they are next, and that when Mother Nature > comes to visit she won't be kept waiting. The reason this flood won't do it, according to those on more relevant newsgroups, is that the current flooding is on the Upper Mississippi (above the confluence with the Ohio), and the lower Mississippi has more than enough capacity to carry the waters once they reach the Ohio. DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) Daly City California: almost San Francisco ------------------------------ From: wegeng.xkeys@xerox.com (Don Wegeng) Subject: Re: Big Rivers Reply-To: wegeng.xkeys@xerox.com Organization: Xerox Corp.,Fairport, NY Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 16:08:29 GMT This is way off the subject of Telecom, but since Pat mentioned it ... In article 12@eecs.nwu.edu, TELECOM Moderator noted: > [Moderator's Note: And don't think the nice folks in Mississippi and > Louisiana are not watching the wicked scene up in Iowa and Missouri > very closely ... they know they are next, and that when Mother Nature > comes to visit she won't be kept waiting. Actually, according to a flood control person from New Orleans (as heard on NPR this past weekend) that city shouldn't be impacted. The reason is that the capacity of the Mississippi south of the confluence with the Ohio River is much greater than it is upstream. Fortunately the Ohio is not flooding (in fact it's a bit lower than normal) so south of the confluence the situation should be much better. The New Orleans person said that they only expected the river to rise a three or four feet above normal, which will barely touch their levies. They do have the capability to divert flood waters from the Mississippi north of New Orleans into Lake P. (where's my atlas when I need it?) but again that shouldn't be necessary. Don wegeng.xkeys@xerox.com [Moderator's Note: Well let's hope that Evansville, IN and the northern Kentucky area does not get something ridiculous like three inches of rain in one hour -- at least not for the next couple months or until the current overload has decreased. Wouldn't that be some- thing, if the Ohio River suddenly had its own flood to deal with? But you know, I don't think anyone expected the massive rains which caused the Missouri River to overflow on its way to the Mississippi either. What shocked me was the way the Missouri changed its confluence; it now meets the Mississippi *twenty miles* away from where they used to meet. Now that is a lot of water. :( PAT] ------------------------------ From: marshall@cs.iastate.edu (Bill Marshall) Subject: Re: Flooding in Iowa Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 21:47:25 GMT Some more information on flooding in Des Moines and a few telecomm related notes. I'm spending the summer in Des Moines (bad choice). When the flood hit, almost all of Des Moines was without power for what was looking like several days. The power company managed to backfeed most of Des Moines, but warned everyone not to place much of a load on the system. At least three electrical substations were (are?) underwater. There was one mention of sending in a scuba diver to flip some switches. US West made quick arrangements to have thousands of gallons of water delivered each day to keep their equipment cool. They were requesting that business only request essential changes that they needed to relocate to the suburbs. The mayor of Des Moines declared that only businesses that offer "essential services" could stay open. Since we had (until today or later) no water, downtown high rises could not be used because fire sprinklers would be useless. The Des Moines fire department had to arrive at fires with several tanker trucks to provide water. MCI has arrived in town with a truck. It has several phones and a satellite uplink dish. They have parked it at the Red Cross evacuation shelter and are providing free long distance calls. The Des Moines newspaper is still unable to print at their main location. They are using a {Wall Street Journal} plant in West Des Moines. The water works should be filling the pipes today. Originally the city was told that water would be restored Sunday (7/18/93). Now they are saying that some sections may have to wait until Thursday. Almost all of the suburbs also relied on Des Moines for all or part of their water supplies. West Des Moines (approx 30,000) is on their own and is now providing water to another suburb. A few other cities and companies managed to restart old wells and are providing some non-drinking water. The radio stations are reporting that we have enough hard goods in the way of food, clothing and water. Donations of money are still being requested. Iowa's slogan has been changed from "Iowa: a place to grow" to "Iowa: a place to row". :) Bill Marshall Computer Science Department Iowa State University marshall@cs.iastate.edu [Moderator's Note: We in Chicago have become a foster home for animals evacuated from shelters in the flood region. The Chicago Anti- Cruelty Society evacuated several dozen dogs and cats from shelters in towns along the river when the local animal shelters were in danger of flooding, which several have done. Those animals are now being housed in several shelters in the Chicago area for the duration. The Illinois Hooved Animal Humane Society assisted with the emergency placement of many horses and cows removed -- some in the nick of time -- from flooded areas and brought them to higher ground here. Some people tried to stick it out in their homes then literally ran away in a panic as the flood waters rose around their feet, leaving their dogs and cats to fend for themselves. I'd like to take people like that and drown them personally. Iowa authorities have stated that when the water receeds to a 'manageable level' the emergency removal and disposal of dead animals (and I presume some humans) will be a priority event. Looks like at least a couple more unpleasant weeks. :( PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 15:29:10 -0400 (EDT) From: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Reply-To: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Subject: Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? > Paul Robinson writes: >> Glenn Campbell's "Wichita Lineman" isn't too bad, but it's >> about the worries of someone who has to fix the equipment; it doesn't >> touch on people who _use_ phone service. > Sorry, "Wichita Lineman" is about an electric lineman. Paul, you > should know phone lines don't get overloaded, circuits do Really? Why does Glen Campbell sing: "I hear your singing in the wire/I hear you singing on the line..." Perhaps the song was ambiguous and refers to both. Oh, on a related point, I was going to include the song "Step by Step" by Eddie Rabbit, but it's not about that type of switch, however. :) Paul Robinson -- TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM ------------------------------ From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes) Subject: Re: Do We Have a Theme Song? Date: 20 Jul 1993 19:14:29 GMT Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz Hey, there's a whole bunch of songs in the Broadway musical "Bells Are Ringing" haynes@cats.ucsc.edu haynes@cats.bitnet [Moderator's Note: Ah, Judy Garland ... sigh ... PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 19:17:11 -0600 From: David Appell Subject: Re: Prodigy Internet Gateway is Up! In TELECOM Digest V13 #490 PAT wrote: > [Moderator's Note: Since each issue of this Digest runs 21-24 K of > text, that's 'merely' $1.05 - $1.20 per issue for Prodigy people. > I think I'll make Prodigy cut me in for some percentage of it! :) > Do they honestly think anyone on their service will be able to afford > to be part of any mailing list originating on the Internet? PAT] I believe this is going to be an increasingly large problems for users of commercial e-mail services who receive significant amounts of mail from the Internet. Last week's issue of {Communications Week} had a cover story on this topic. CIS has already instituted charges similiar to Prodigy, and other big commercial providers (they quoted EasyLink) are considering it. Since they all carry much more inbound traffic from the Internet than outbound traffic (the nature of the beast), you really can't blame them -- the "sender pays all" method, and subsidization of the Internet, doesn't work for them. Unfortunately, given the current rate structures of commercial e-mail providers (of order 15-50 cents for a 1K message), few users will be able to afford to receive much mail from the Internet. Since the Internet is becoming increasingly popular, and of increasing benefit as an information provider and communications facilitator, there is going to be a situation where those people who do not have subsidized access (either through a university or place of employment) are going to have to scramble (and pay heavily) to obtain access. The same problem is going to exist with any "data superhighway" that comes into existence -- there will be toll booths at the entrance and exit ramps. Universities and corporations will be able to afford the tolls, but I believe it is going to put a crimp on access for the general population, and on the vast potential of the Internet as a whole -- until there are more flat-fee providers (such as PSI Link), and more connection points. I'd bet that within a year all the commercial providers are going to be charging for inbound traffic, that they'll then lose a nontrivial percentage of their customers, who will then flock to FreeNets, BBSs and other providers (and there will be a shortage of those for awhile, too, especially if you don't live in a major metropolitian area). These are probably the good old days. David Appell appell@csn.org ------------------------------ From: richgr@netcom.com (Rich Greenberg) Subject: Re: White House Orders No-Bid Phone System Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 20:19:59 GMT In article tarl@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter) writes: > 1-800-IDIOT-I.Q. There is another number set up for The-Polish-Joke-Of-The-Week at 1-800-227-POLZ Rich Greenberg Work: ETi Solutions, Oceanside CA 619-631-5280 N6LRT TinselTown, USA Play: richgr@netcom.com 310-649-0238 I speak for myself only. Canines: Chinook & Husky ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #492 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa22532; 21 Jul 93 3:08 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA12413 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Wed, 21 Jul 1993 00:37:03 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA02359 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Wed, 21 Jul 1993 00:36:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 00:36:01 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307210536.AA02359@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #493 TELECOM Digest Wed, 21 Jul 93 00:36:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 493 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: Calling Card Without a Phone Number, or Using VISA (Carlos Amezaga) Re: Calling Card Without a Phone Number, or Using VISA (Robert Aaron Book) Re: Portable PCs in a Fleet of Cars (Dale Farmer) Re: Portable PCs in a Fleet of Cars (Ed Casas) Re: Were You a Victim of 900 Abuse? (Mike King) Re: New England/Mid Atlantic Paging (Justin Greene) Re: AT&T Credit Card From Europe (Paul Robinson) Re: Escort Digital Cordless Telephone (Justin Greene) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit (Tim Gorman) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit (Mark Brader) Re: Fire Tragedy Strikes Digest Reader (Justin Greene) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: overlord@megalith.miami.fl.us (Carlos Amezaga) Subject: Re: Calling Card Without a Phone Number, or Using VISA Date: 21 Jul 93 06:16:50 GMT Organization: Megalith Mail/News Server - Miami, FL USA In article mlevin@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshall Levin) writes: > Alternatively, are there any carriers that will allow me to charge > calls to my VISA card? Can such a thing be DIRECT DIALED? If so, > how? Are the rates for using a VISA card mich higher? I think I > heard about MCI offering this (I don't know if it is direct dialed or > needs an operator, though). Also, I work at a bank and I noticed on > someone's VISA bill entries in the following format: I have the CitiBank Visa card and they have a plan which allows me to make LD phone calls using my VISA. What I do is call a special 1-800 Number (Although I suppose I could use the 10XXX code also) and then dial the number I wish to call. i.e. 0-305-559-3145 and then I will hear a prompt to enter my visa card number along with an MCI issued PIN number. Once that is done, my call is routed like any other card. I don't use that card often though. I have the AT&T Mastercard and that is the one I use most frequently to place calls on. Works on the same principal as the MCI plan except my Master Card has the account number I need to enter for calling on the bottom of the card. It also has another special number on the back in case I so happen to be in Europe and need to place a call using my MasterCard. Once I enter the appropriate account number I enter my pin and my call goes through. My MasterCard has instruction on the back listing how to place calls in case I forget. Carlos UUCP: postmaster@megalith.miami.fl.us DATA/FAX: +1 305 559 3145 Amiga % System Administrator ------------------------------ From: rbook@owlnet.rice.edu (Robert Aaron Book) Subject: Re: Calling Card Without a Phone Number, or Using VISA Organization: Rice University Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 19:19:59 GMT In article mlevin@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshall Levin) writes: > Are there any carriers out there that will give me a calling card > without having my own phone number? I am living with my parents now > but travel often and need to make calls on the road. I'd prefer not > to use their card. In addition to our Faithful Moderator's Orange Card, there are several options. First Sprint will give you a calling card as long as you have a *contact* phone number; i.e., they need to have a number where they can contact you, but the phone number doesn't have to be in your name. I had one of these when I was in precisely your situation. MCI may do the same things, but I'm not sure. > Alternatively, are there any carriers that will allow me to charge > calls to my VISA card? Can such a thing be DIRECT DIALED? If so, > how? Are the rates for using a VISA card mich higher? I think I > heard about MCI offering this (I don't know if it is direct dialed or > needs an operator, though). > [Moderator's Note: MCI has a plan where calls can be billed to VISA or > AMEX directly but I think you ask your credit card service about it > rather than MCI since the credit card service is getting the kickback MCI has a service called VisaPhone, under which you are issued a calling card number consisting of your Visa number plus four digits (PIN). You can sign up directly with MCI, or in some cases through your bank if they participate. To sign up with MCI, call (800) 866-0099. You make calls with a pseudo-direct dialing procedure: Call an 800 number, then enter the number you want to call and your calling card number (Visa number + PIN). You can't dial direct from a rotary phone. Calls through Visaphone are *CHEAPER* than MCI's normal calling card rates. It is a flat .22/.15/.10 per minute for Day/Evening/Night respectively, plus .70 surcharge per call. The (in)famous Friends&Family 20% discount is available when calling other MCI customers. It should be notes that these rates are valid anywhere in the USA, and are often cheaper than 1+ rates from in-state calls. I have MCI at home, and an MCI card, but I use VisaPhone on the road, and sometimes at home for intrastate calls. The only disadvantage to VisaPhone is that unlike MCI 1+ and calling card services, you can't earn American Airlines Frequent Flyer miles. MCI also has similar arrangements with MasterCard (called MasterPhone) and American Express. Call the above phone number to find out where to call for these services. AT&T also has its (in)famous "Universal Card" which is a MasterCard/ Calling card combination. They give you a (free) MasterCard, along with a calling card number (10 digits + PIN = 14 digits). The PIN is the same for both calling and ATM use. If you want to be *really* weird, you could even set up your AT&T Universal Card as an MCI MasterPhone Calling Card! > Also, I work at a bank and I noticed on > someone's VISA bill entries in the following format: > MCI 02MIN 555 555 5555 .64 > ITT 05MIN 555 555 1234 .45 > SPR 02MIN 555 555 1212 .53 > (or something like that). Apparently these carriers offer such a > service -- now how does one access it? VisaPhone doesn't bill this way -- they add one charge to your Visa bill each month, and sent you a separate itemized statement with all your calls. My best guess is that this may have come from a phone with a card reader. Some airports have phones where you can swipe your card in the phone and make a call without any further authentication. Robert Book rbook@rice.edu Rice University ------------------------------ From: dale@access.digex.net (Dale Farmer) Subject: Re: Portable PCs in a Fleet of Cars Date: 21 Jul 1993 03:32:01 GMT Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Tina Argente (argentina@access.isc-br.com) wrote: > I've been asked to check into the feasibility of installing portable > PC's into a fleet of cars, and having the PC's communicate somehow > with a remote host computer. I think some police departments do > something like this already, if I'm not mistaken, but I don't know Motorola offers a system that does this, and it is built and priced like a Motorola system. (expensive, but bulletproof) If the thing is going to be welded into the car and operated by people who are not going to be clean neat and careful go with their system or something equally durable. If it is going to be used by a fleet of traveling sales droids you may be better off buying them cellular phones with built in modems. Federal express and some of the other national delivery services have links in their trucks of this type, I don't know if they used proprietary hardware or off the shelf stuff. The issues are initial cost of installation, training of your workforce to use them, maintainance of the hardware, software maintainance/upgrades. Look very carefully at the last two, as the users can very easily make them really, really large with only a moderate amount of carelessness. Toss out some more details, if you can, and we will give you more free advice. (worth every penny you paid for it ...) Dale Farmer [Moderator's Note: The Chicago Police Department has several patrol cars with video display terminals so the officers can look up stuff like license plates and driver's records directly without having to go through the dispatcher and wait for a reply. These transmit and receive in the 900 mz range somewhere. PAT] ------------------------------ From: edc@ee.ubc.ca (Ed Casas) Subject: Re: Portable PCs in a Fleet of Cars Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 18:26:23 GMT Tina Argente writes: > I've been asked to check into the feasibility of installing portable > PC's into a fleet of cars, and having the PC's communicate somehow > with a remote host computer. I think some police departments do > something like this already, if I'm not mistaken, but I don't know > exactly how the communications take place. These mobile data terminal systems are used for dispatch and database enquiries by police, taxi, courier and utility companies. They use custom-designed ruggedized terminals and modems. The modems interface directly with either custom or modified radio transceivers. Data rates are on the order of 4800 bps with packet-type protocols using FEC and ARQ. These systems were introduced to reduce radio channel congestion and the number of dispatchers required. > Is anyone familiar with how this can be done? Are there wireless > modems readily available for mobile use, or do they use a cellular > phone hookup, or what? Thanks for any help or insights anyone can > offer! The MDT systems operate on VHF radio channels allocated to a single user group rather than on the public cellular system. Mobile Data International (now a division of Motorola) manufactures these systems. Gandalf makes simple units suitable for taxi dispatch applications. You can use conventional telephone modems over a cellular phone but there are at least two problems. The first is that the time and cost overhead involved in setting up a call makes it unsuitable for bursty traffic such as short database queries. The second is that the cellular channel often has short fades due to multipath and handovers between cells. You have to select your modem and protocols with this in mind. This problem is much less severe if you aren't moving while the call is in progress. A number of companies make modems for use on cellular links. Several years ago Telebit announced a unit based on their multi-carrier modulation called the CellBlazer. I've heard of others based on conventional V.32 modems. By changing the modem settings and using appropriate software you might get acceptable performance with an off-the-shelf telephone modem. Cellular operators are currently designing a cellular data service called (I think) CDPD which inserts data packets into unused channels or into silent periods between talk spurts. Ed Casas (edc@ee.ubc.ca) [Moderator's Note: Another user of these things here in Chicago is the Yellow Cab Company. Their's have a little two or three line LED type display. The unit will chirp and the driver will look over at the message then respond by pressing just one or two keys (of about a dozen on the front of the unit.) These have almost entirely replaced the old radio system they used to use. These units apparently can track where cabs are at (what areas of the city) and report this to the cab office which in turn sends out orders to cabs in the vicinity. PAT] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 17:01:01 EDT From: mking@fsd.com (Mike King) Subject: Re: Were You a Victim of 900 Abuse? In TELECOM Digest, V13 #490, jimd@SSD.intel.com (Jim DePorter) responded to my earlier post: >> She could also hang up to disconnect an abusive caller; she simply >> called back to continue her shift. > I'm sorry, but could someone explain to me what a caller could say to > be abusive on a phone sex line at $?? per minute? [...] In the article, the reporter indicated occasionally a caller would start pestering her (very aggressively) for a date, or would start describing what he'd like to do to her. Regardless of the stigma of that particular job, she said she still found it difficult to handle such calls, and that's why she only lasted a few days. Mike King | +1 301-428-5384 | I don't speak for my Software Sourcerer | mking@fsd.com or | employer. My employer Fairchild Space | 73710.1430@compuserve.com | doesn't speak for me. ------------------------------ From: jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) Subject: Re: New England/Mid Atlantic Paging Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 02:35:10 GMT > 5. Metromedia, last I heard, was up for sale. I had a pager from I have some vauge recollection that they were purchased by BellSouth who by the way are also the owners of MobileComm. > 4. Look into alphanumeric pagers. They can now generally be had for > about $5/$10 more per month than a display (numeric) pager. Most > paging companies have a deal with a dispatch office where they will > type out (alpha page) your important messages for an additional > $.50/dispatch. YUK YUK YUK YUK. I tried alpha pagers from a number of different companies and ran into many problems. First off, the subway (NYC), you miss a page and don't know it (OK, not a problem for most and some will let you call in for messages). Second, service drones who can't spell and can't count. I recieved lots of misspellings (sic) which was not a big deal until a friend was almost raped on a date because they mistyped the phone number and I couldn't reach her to come to the rescue. Fortunately she was in the Israeli Army ... My vote goes to voice mail. I use my VME as my office, I get messages in my client's voice and no one else hears them. Page net uses a single number for digital/VME, just talk at the tone or press in your number. The MobileComm system I had required two numbers (this was a year ago however). Granted, you need to find a phone to see who called, but at least the message is private and intact. > 5. Get a pager with the vibe option. It is far more pleasant for > those around you in a restaurant or theatre not to hear the damn > beep/beep. Not to mention for the owner ... Wheeee :-) Justin Greene Finger for PGP 2.x public key ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 15:23:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Robinson Reply-To: 0005066432@MCIMAIL.COM Subject: Re: AT&T Credit Card From Europe povlphp@uts.uni-c.dk (Povl H. Pedersen), writes: > I have just been informed that I can contact AT&T and get a credit > card ... that will alloow me to call USA for ... about a third of > the price I pay with Danish telecom. > How much can I use it? How about calling 800 numbers? Can I use it > for cheaper dialing to the rest of the world too? 1. If you are using an AT&T calling card, you can call (at your expense) to any AT&T 1-800 number. If the number isn't issued by AT&T, you're out of luck. An 800 number in the U.S. acts effectively as a "called-party pays" number and as such is generally not accessible from outside of the U.S., unless you have access to a carrier that will connect you to it at your expense. AT&T will if you have one of their cards. Someone on here stated that they can call into 1-800 numbers via MCI which doesn't care who owns the 1-800 number since they make money taking the call from overseas even if they don't make money carrying the call. 2. I believe AT&T provides a special card for calls from one country to another. Its general cards only allow for calls to or from the United States. Paul Robinson -- TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM ------------------------------ From: jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) Subject: Re: Escort Digital Cordless Telephone Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 02:11:40 GMT >> Has anybody here had any experience with the new Escort (Cincinnati >> Microwave) digital cordless telephone that lists for $399? How does >> it compare to the Tropez? They say in the ad that they use: "Digital Spread Spectrum (DSS) Technology: DSS is used by the military to secure absolute security in field communications. By rapidly and randomly changing frequencies over a wide (26 MHz) bandwidth, total security is assured. And digital technology embeds microprecessors to eliminate unwanted line noise for crystal clear sound." Is DSS special to Escort or is it also used on the tropez and other like phones. They seem to be implying that the call could not be monitored because the frequency changes during conversation. If we successfully monitor a conversation can they be sued? They also say "wide (26MHZ) ..." but then later say "100 Channels", well, which is it? Any thoughts? Justin Greene Finger for PGP 2.x public key ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jul 93 17:37:21 EDT From: tim gorman <71336.1270@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Rahul Dhesi writes in TELECOM Digest V13 #489: > So why is so much telephone equipment limited to only 12 digits at a > time? > Who is writing this broken telecom software? ................ > Do telephone switching standards not allow variable-length fields? I think you are looking at the problem from the wrong viewpoint. Consider the telephone number to be the address of a location in the memory of a computer. This specific location has to be defined such that any computer from from a TRS-80 to a Cray can handle it. The total address space available for use is thus the same for every computer and it is pointed to the same way in every computer. Recompiling in this situation is meaningless. Variable-length fields are also. Each memory location has to be fully specified in every computer for anything to make any sense. The only way to expand the memory space available is to modify every computer using the application. So instead of having 2^8 address spaces available you would have 2^9. This change has to be made in every computer at the same time or you will have mismatches somewhere. Tim Gorman - SWBT *opinions are mine, any resemblance to official policy is coincidence* ------------------------------ From: msb@sq.com (Mark Brader) Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 20:57:05 GMT >> +49 6131 XXX 450 voice >> +49 6131 XXX 4555 fax > This is the usual way with corporate PBXes. -0 gets you the corporate > operator, -x{x} gets you a specific extension. > Usually you call a company at -0 and state your concern. You'll then > be connected to the person in charge, who'll give you his/her > extension number if there's a potential interest to call again. > This convention is so natural to me that it took some time until I > realized that North Americans, who are used to their rigid numbering > plan, must find it strange. It may be worth pointing out for foreign readers that the only part of this that's strange to North Americans is that the numbers vary in length. Here, the direct number that reaches the corporate operator is filled out to the standard length, usually with 1's (easy to dial on a dial phone) or 0's (numerically low, and suggestive of "0 for operator"). For example, the main Eaton's department store in Toronto has a main (operator) number of 343-2111; other 343-XXXX numbers reach various departments directly; some of these are listed in the phone book, and others you could ask the appropriate employee for if you needed them. Mark Brader, SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com ------------------------------ From: jgreene@nyx.cs.du.edu (Justin Greene) Subject: Re: Fire Tragedy Strikes Digest Reader Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 02:45:49 GMT Another thought on phone card service (not to take away your income Pat :-) ) is US Sprint. If you order a calling card from them you can have them call you at the home number listed the next day and they will give you the calling card number verbally. They will only do this if they call you (you can call them and have then call you right back). As for a home phone number, it could be yours since it's forwarded, or maybe a coinphone at the hospital since you will be calling them and having them call right back, you will definately be there. Best of Luck. Justin Greene Finger for PGP 2.x public key ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #493 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa23380; 21 Jul 93 3:48 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA10570 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Wed, 21 Jul 1993 01:19:53 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA20040 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Wed, 21 Jul 1993 01:19:02 -0500 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 01:19:02 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307210619.AA20040@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #494 TELECOM Digest Wed, 21 Jul 93 01:19:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 494 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: Question About "Dark Fiber" (David Cornutt) Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year (Robert Wiegand) Re: 911 For Non-Emergencies? (was Re: Natwick 911 Drama) (Paulo Santos) Re: 911 For Non-Emergencies? (was Re: Natwick 911 Drama) (Greg Abbott) Re: The "Ultimate" Personal Telecom System (Patrick Goebel) Re: Is CIS Blocking Internet? (David W. Tamkin) Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? (John R. Levine) Re: Sprint Instant Foncard (Mike King) Re: 800 Translation Questions (Tim Gorman) Re: How Can One Dial a US 1-800 Number From Canada? (David Leibold) Re: The Next Step: Affinity Long Distance (Carl Moore) Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck (Mark Terribile) Re: Connecting Two Computers via RS-232 With a *Long* Cable (David Roe) Re: Does This Device Exist? (Patton Turner) ---------------------- TELECOM Digest is an e-journal devoted mostly -- but not exclusively -- to discussions on voice telephony. The Digest is a not-for-profit public service published frequently by Patrick Townson Associates. PTA markets a no-surcharge telephone calling card and a no monthly fee 800 service. In addition, we are resellers of AT&T's Software Defined Network. For a detailed discussion of our services, write and ask for the file 'products'. The Digest is delivered at no charge by email to qualified subscribers on any electronic mail service connected to the Internet. To join the mail- ing list, write and tell us how you qualify: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu. All article submissions MUST be sent to our email address: telecom@eecs. nwu.edu -- NOT as replies to comp.dcom.telecom. Back issues and numerous other telephone-related files of interest are available from the Telecom Archives, using anonymous ftp lcs.mit.edu. Login anonymous, then 'cd telecom-archives'. At the present time, the Digest is also ported to Usenet at the request of many readers there, where it is known as 'comp.dcom.telecom'. Use of the Digest does not require the use of our products and services. The two are separate. All articles are the responsibility of the individual authors. Organi- zations listed, if any, are for identification purposes only. The Digest is compilation-copyrighted, 1993. **DO NOT** cross-post articles between the Digest and other Usenet or alt newsgroups. Do not compile mailing lists from the net-addresses appearing herein. Send tithes and love offerings to PO Box 1570, Chicago, IL 60690. :) Phone: 312-465-2700. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt) Subject: Re: Question About "Dark Fiber" Organization: NASA/MSFC Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 17:27:07 GMT This is interesting, but I've heard the term "dark fiber" to mean something else, namely fiber that is installed with no immediate use for it. As a lot of copper gets ripped out and fiber is pulled into the conduits where the copper was, the owners are finding that they might as well go ahead and fill the conduit with fiber, since the additional labor cost is minimal as long as they're pulling something anyway. This results in a lot of fiber just lying around, looking for some enterprising soul to find a use for it. Talk about the devil's workshop ... :-) And, to tie this in with another thread that has appeared in the Digest recently: Guess who owns a lot of the conduits in question? Power companies. My brother works in the electric utility industry, and he tells me that many power companies already have enormous amounts of fiber capacity. They use it for operations and to provide telecomm service between their facilities in metro areas (LEC? what's that?), but they've put in a lot more than they need for their own use. He's already working with several utilities (whom I can't name at the moment) on "smart meter" experiments, and some of these involve fiber to the home. Stay tuned. David Cornutt, New Technology Inc., Huntsville, AL (205) 461-4517 (cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov; some insane route applies) "The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my employer, not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary." ------------------------------ From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand) Subject: Re: Cell Phone Fraud Losses Triple in a Year Reply-To: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 20:54:09 GMT upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch) writes: > Is it just me or does surface mounting the firmware sound really dumb? > Most boards I've seen the ROM's will be socketed even if everything > else is surface mounted. I'm not an EE, but I'd think that if I had to > surface mount the ROM I'd use an EEPROM and design it so I could > reprogram it in place. I doubt that someone is going to like hearing > that their $1,000 phone's problem can't be fixed because the firmware > can't be updated. You have to remember the type of product these parts are in. It has to be very small and as low cost as possible. A DIP ROM chip in a socket is just way too big and too expensive to put into a portable cellular phone. EEPROM memories are also way too expensive. Bob Wiegand ------------------------------ From: pas@cc.gatech.edu (Paulo Santos) Subject: Re: 911 For Non-Emergencies? (was Re: Natwick 911 Drama) Reply-To: pas@cc.gatech.edu (Paulo Santos) Organization: College of Computing, Georgia Institute of Technology Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 21:58:33 GMT In article elana@netcom.com (Elana Beach) writes: > Someone posted here that they tried to report a threatening phone > caller to the police, and in asking the local police how to report it, > they told him/her to call 911. (!!!) They had no way to report > non-emergencies than via 911? Ultimate stupidity. Talk about stupidity. My car was broken into in downtown Atlanta, less than 100 yards from the downtown police precinct in the CNN Center. To report the break-in, I just walked to the police station (hey, it was closer than the nearest payphone). Well, they made me call 911 *from the police station*, so that 911 could dispatch one of the police cars that was parked out front. The extent to which police depend on 911 is tremendous. It's no wonder that so many sad things happen when 911 is down or slow. Paulo Santos Internet: pas@cc.gatech.edu Georgia Tech, College of Computing uucp: ...!gatech!cc!pas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 00:18:08 -0600 (CST) From: Greg Abbott Reply-To: gabbott@uiuc.edu Subject: Re: 911 For Non-Emergencies? (was Re: Natwick 911 Drama) elana@netcom.com (Elana Beach) wrote: > Someone posted here that they tried to report a threatening phone > caller to the police, and in asking the local police how to report it, > they told him/her to call 911. (!!!) They had no way to report > non-emergencies than via 911? Ultimate stupidity. > Definetly an improvement on the old system! However what *I* want to > know is: how many 911 systems have this sort of common-sense setup in > place? Is Portland unusual this way? What is the norm? In Champaign County, Illinois, We advocate use of the 9-1-1 number to report "an emergency". This statement is broad on purpose. The average citizen has a difficult time deciding if their call is an emergency or not. We refer the caller to the appropriate non-emergency number if the call is not an emergency. Strict call screening allows the 9-1-1 operator to make a rapid determination of the urgency of the call. All of our member agencies have non-emergency telephone numbers listed. In addition, we have our own non-emergency numbers which are utilized quite heavily. Last year we handled over half a million calls to our 9-1-1 center. Just my .02 worth. ------------------------------ From: patrick@casbs.Stanford.EDU (Patrick Goebel) Subject: Re: The "Ultimate" Personal Telecom System Organization: Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 06:01:09 GMT In article edg@netcom.com (Ed Greenberg) writes: > I was considering writing a serious reply to this, and helping to > envision such a system until I reached the bottom paragraph and lost > interest. (Further bashing omitted (-:) Gee Ed, I am sorry you had a bad week at the office (-: No doubt your negative reaction was caused by my failure to communicate my intentions. Perhaps I can clarify my goals. I have no desire to put together a commercial system which I would then sell to others. I simply want something that *I* can use in my own business. Let me give you an example. I mentioned the need for a cellular phone that would permit the use of a headset and microphone while riding my bicycle. After checking out some shops here in the Bay area I find that only the OKI 1150 has such a capability. The salesman says it cost $700 plus whatever the headset costs. You might think: "Gee, I can get a cellular phone for $300. Why pay $700+ just to get a headset?" And I say, "If that's what it costs to do what I need, then that's what I'll pay." I hope this helps. Cheers, Patrick Goebel E-MAIL: patrick@casbs.Stanford.EDU Network Administrator VOICE: (415) 321-2052 CASBS, 202 Junipero Serra Blvd. FAX: (415) 321-1192 Stanford, CA 94305 BEEPER: Temporarily Out of Order... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 00:22 CDT From: dattier@genesis.mcs.com (David W. Tamkin) Subject: Re: Is CIS Blocking Internet? Reply-To: dattier@genesis.mcs.com (DWT) Organization: Contributor Account on MCSNet, Chicago, Illinois 60657 Roger Fajman wrote in in comp.dcom. telecom: > I have heard of a problem with this, although I can't recall for sure > whether it was with MCI Mail or Compuserve. The problem occurred when > subscribers joined Internet mailing lists. One user on a commercial > service would send a message to the mailing list. Users on the other > service would be blocked from receiving the posting. It's worse than that: I once subscribed to a reflector list from my MCI Mail account. I sent a submission to it, and my own copy of my article was not delivered to me as a list member but rather returned to me as its sender because MCI Mail would not use the Internet to deliver mail from MCI Mail to MCI Mail! (It even used that language in the wrapper of my returned letter: "between MCI Mail and MCI Mail.") Frankly, I think the deal is that (1) it costs MCI Mail less to deliver mail directly to CompuServe than to the Internet, so they make you address it that way; (2) CompuServe charges more (a supposed equivalent of MCI Mail's rates) for mail sent to MCI Mail than to the Internet, so they make you address it in the way advantageous for them, and they share the surcharge with MCI; (3) a letter addressed directly from MCI Mail to CompuServe will arrive there with a return address that lets CompuServe take advantage of (2). A reflector list that rewrites the From_ line to show the reflection account rather than the original author (whose address may remain in the From: line) generally has no difficulty with subscribers on commercial services. Neither do digests. Meanwhile, it's perfectly legal in CIS's and MCI Mail's eyes to use the Internet to pass mail between either of them and Delphi, BIX, America On-Line, or GEnie, or between any two of those four. Sud- denly AUP's are not invoked when there is no money at stake. David W. Tamkin Box 3284 Skokie, Illinois 60076-6284 312-714-5610 dattier@genesis.mcs.com CompuServe: 73720,1570 MCI Mail: 426-1818 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 00:32 EDT From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Subject: Re: Maximum Number of Phone Lines to a Residence? Organization: I.E.C.C. > Over the past seven years, his one-story, four-room home has come to > resemble a Radio Shack warehouse: 110 personal computers each with a > modem, and at least that many phone lines to handle 3,200 calls a day. I dropped by to visit Channel 1 a few years ago when the only had 40 machines or so. They have a tiny little house -- I have trouble imagining where they put 110 computers. They must have been sleeping on top of them. Does anyone disagree that this seems to be a candidate for the "most phone lines ever in a residence" award? I believe that each line is a real copper line, too, no funny business with T1 or SLC. The central office is only a half mile away and there's lots of copper under the street. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 08:42:03 EDT From: mking@fsd.com (Mike King) Subject: Re: Sprint Instant Foncard In TELECOM Digest, V13 #490, Mike.Pollock@p19.f228.n2613.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Pollock) wrote: > What's with this Sprint Instant Foncard thing? Apparently it's a > point-of purchase prepaid calling card which you can buy at your local > convenience store. If you have an account in good standing, Sprint can also give you an instant "real" FonCard. Earlier this year when I had a relative visiting from the UK, I wanted to make sure he'd be able to make phone calls during a period while he was by himself in Dallas. I didn't want him to fall prey to COCOTs and AOSs, so I figured a calling card from one of the big three would be safest. At the same time, I didn't want to give him *my* card number. In case of any problems, we could deactivate his card without affecting mine. I called Sprint Priority customer service, and after asking a few questions to establish I really was who I said I was, the rep said, "No problem; I'll call back at the number we show on your bill to give you your card number." Thirty seconds later the phone rang and she recited the number to me. It was activated within twelve hours. Mike King | +1 301-428-5384 | I don't speak for my Software Sourcerer | mking@fsd.com or | employer. My employer Fairchild Space | 73710.1430@compuserve.com | doesn't speak for me. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jul 93 17:33:01 EDT From: tim gorman <71336.1270@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: 800 Translation Questions TELECOM Moderator noted: > And yes, some telcos (maybe all) keep a cache of the 800 numbers > they have recently connected with to make future calls to that > number go faster. If they have never seen the 800 number before, > they do a database lookup. In my admittedly limited experience this is not the case for Northern Telecom and AT&T products. The tests we ran prior to portability indicated that every time we called an 800 number a query was launched from the switch to the SCP database. The SCP itself may cache information, it is impossible to tell from this end :-). This has also been borne out through the resolution of the few problems we have encountered. Changes in the database show up immediately. With the turnaround time from the database on usual calls (say 100ms to 500ms), it just wouldn't be worth the time or resources needed to cache the information in every central office switch in the country. It is much more efficient to just make a query on each call. Tim Gorman - SWBT *opinions are mine, any resemblance to official policy is coincidence* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 19:30 EDT From: djcl@io.org (woody) Subject: Re: How Can One Dial a US 1-800 Number From Canada? There are Canadian long distance resellers like Smart-Talk Network (STN) and Fonorola that have offered access to U.S. 800 numbers for some time now. Of course, one can also sign up for a service like Telepassport which could give such access as well. On a related topic, now that many ITU folks have joined us, what's the exact status of an international toll-free country code? Are there serious plans to get something like an 800 country code assigned for international calling? David Leibold ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 9:42:57 EDT From: Carl Moore Subject: Re: The Next Step: Affinity Long Distance I am in Mensa, and recently got some calling-card plan from them. Mensa is for people in the upper 2% of the population with reference to intelligence. ------------------------------ From: mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us Subject: Re: US -> Europe Direct Dial: 13th Digit Spells Bad Luck Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 16:23:03 GMT In article , Rahul Dhesi writes: > This is the era of many megabytes of main memory and gigabytes of > virtual memory in low-end computer equipment. ... > So why is so much telephone equipment limited to only 12 digits at a time? > Who is writing this broken telecom software? Is it some guy that > hard-coded five digits for zip codes at one time and got fired when > nine-digit zip codes came along? Has some unsuspecting telephone company > now hired him to write switching software? Did they not make sure > that any fixed-size data structures depend on defined constants, so > that a single change and recompile would allow longer fields to be > supported? Does telephone switching equipment not have the ability to > have its software upgraded via a telephone call? ... This really hits a button. I've worked on software that went into a PBX, and it's hard enough dealing with everything that The Network presents now without being able to determine what the European PTTs will do years hence. At times, they seem to be determined -- hell-bent -- to ensure that US equipment will not operate properly with their networks. Further, it's not just a question of data structures in individual switches; it's a question of the message formats from switch to switch. The network reliability requirements require that upgrades be performed very, very carefully. And no, you _don't_ want critical software to be changable by a phone call; you want to ensure that the control store for a switch is immune to any change not made by a technician physically present in the secured area surrounding the switch. Imagine what a terrorist -- or a government about to declare war on a nation -- could do having broken remotely into the control store for all -- or even many -- of the nation's telephone switches. Mr. Dhesi's intemperate article demonstrates how important it is to have requirements validated by trained, experienced engineers responsible for the performance and reliability of the product-as-part- of-the-system. Finally, remember that both telco-owned and customer-owned equipment is expected to last for a decade or more. This may not be fair, but in the US it is practically enforced by the tax laws, which limit depreciation based on the functional life of equipment, not on its competitive or obsolescence-limited useful life. (This man's opinions are his own.) From mole-end Mark Terribile mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us, Somewhere in Matawan, NJ [Moderator's Note: You mentioned terrorists and governments and the trouble they could cause. I think you should include phreaks as well. Some of them love finding ways to get into switches remotely and can cause a lot of trouble if they are able to do so. PAT] ------------------------------ From: roe@sbctri.sbc.com (David Roe) Subject: Re: Connecting Two Computers via RS-232 With a *Long* Cable Date: 20 Jul 1993 18:37:40 GMT Organization: Southwestern Bell Technology Resources In article , nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle) wrote: > The proper solution to this is called a "limited distance modem". > These are devices designed to work over a four-wire hard-wired > connection, rather than a phone line. These give you isolation, and > will work even if there are ground voltage differentials between the > two ends. Anybody know a cheap source for these? There are several sources of these. The first catalog I picked up was "Black Box" with async models starting at $72 on page 36 of the February catalog. Their Technical Support number is 412-746-5500. Speeds to 38.4Kbps, distances to 2.5 miles. It's cheaper than a computer repair! Disclaimer: I'm a satisfied past customer of Black Box Corporation. Good Luck. David M. Roe, Director roe@sbctri.sbc.com Southwestern Bell Technology Resources ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY LABORATORY 1010 Pine St. Room 635 St. Louis, MO 63101-3099 PHONE: 314-235-7200 FAX: 314-235-5797 ------------------------------ From: turner@Dixie.Com Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 21:14 EDT Subject: Re: Does This Device Exist? Jack Decker writes: > This is mostly a curiosity question, but could have some practical > applications. > What I am wondering is if anyone makes a device that comes in two > parts, and that passes DC signalling and ringing through a "wet" line. > That's probably a confusing description; maybe a diagram will help: > ________ _____ _____ > |_|----|_| | "A" | | "B" | To > / \ |UNIT |==================|UNIT |======> Telco > /____\=========|_____| ("wet" circuit) |_____| or PBX > CPE line This is easy enough to do. Use a FXS (Foreign Exchange Subscriber) card at the CPE and a FXO (FX Office) on the other end. These cards are available from Tellabs for a hundred dollars or so. Wescom and XEL probally carry similar cards. Gain is set with dip switches. Wet circuits aren't needed. If you plan on using a POTS line, you need to have some way of setting up the connection if telco tears it down. A holding coil on both ends is probably necessary for loop start lines. I assume two wire versions are available, if not steal a pair of hybrids from old 500 sets. Patton Turner KB4GRZ FAA Telecommunications turner@dixie.com ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V13 #494 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa20900; 21 Jul 93 20:31 EDT Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA21513 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist-outbound); Wed, 21 Jul 1993 17:52:56 -0500 Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id AA16535 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for telecomlist); Wed, 21 Jul 1993 17:52:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 17:52:00 -0500 From: TELECOM Moderator Message-Id: <199307212252.AA16535@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V13 #495 TELECOM Digest Wed, 21 Jul 93 17:52:00 CDT Volume 13 : Issue 495 Inside This Issue: Moderator: Patrick A. Townson Re: Standard Practice For Wiring House (Dave Caplinger) Re: Standard Practice For Wiring House (Bruce Sullivan) Re: 800 Translation Questions (Richard Nash) Re: Why Can't I Call 800 Numbers Internationally? (Tatsuya Kawasaki) Re: Chicago Area Man Charged in Computer Porn Transmission (Marc Unangst) Re: New AM Band Violates No-Intercept Rule? (Chuck Forsberg) What Do People Think of the AT&T Breakup? (Christopher Zguris) How Were N.A. Area Codes Allocated? (John Paul Morrison) Translation Needed of Telephony Terms in Spanish (Hector Myerston) USR Sporster Fax 14400 - Any Good? (Eli S. Bingham) What is the TAP-Protocol? (Cyril P. Spruijt) Sources Needed For Cellular Accessories (Brian Oplinger) Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice (Paul Houle) Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice (Brett Frankenberger) Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice (John Hawkinson) Re: New AT&T Feature: TrueVoice (Justin Greene) Why the AT&T TrueVoice Demo Asks For Your Number (Nigel Allen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dent%beeble@uunet.UU.NET (Dave Caplinger) Subject: Re: Standard Practice For Wiring House Organization: Beeble Planning Commission Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 14:37:57 GMT Hinders, Thomas writes: > I contracted (with an eletrician) to wire my new home during > construction. I instructed him (based on input from this group) to > pull separate lines for each wall jack to the basement. However, he > wired all the jacks in daisy-chain fashion. When I objected, he > claimed that daisy-chain wiring is standard wiring practice. If you contracted him to wire each line to the basement and he didn't do what you asked, it seems to be immaterial whether or not daisy- chaining is "common practice" since you were explicit i