Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 11:08:33 EST Errors-To: Comp-privacy Error Handler From: Computer Privacy Digest Moderator To: Comp-privacy@uwm.edu Subject: Computer Privacy Digest V5#063 Computer Privacy Digest Wed, 16 Nov 94 Volume 5 : Issue: 063 Today's Topics: Moderator: Leonard P. Levine Re: Mother's Maiden Name Re: Mother's Maiden Name Re: Intrusive Supermarket Card Re: Intrusive Supermarket Card Re: Intrusive Supermarket Card Re: Intrusive Supermarket Card Re: E-mail headers Re: Must I Always Carry I.D? Re: Must I Always Carry I.D? Re: Must I Always Carry I.D? Norton's DISKREET Info on CPD, Contributions, Subscriptions, FTP, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bcn@world.std.com (Barry C Nelson) Date: 14 Nov 1994 22:52:50 GMT Subject: Re: Mother's Maiden Name Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA When my friend's credit card accounts were being used fraudulently, the secret service was nice enough to suggest that she select a new "mother's maiden name." That is, select a password which you'll never forget, yet has no obvious connection to your own identity. After all, does the credit company care that your mother's maiden name isn't really "einstein" or "zanzibar"? I suppose some official orgs may have a real problem with that approach, since it might thwart computer matching. -- BCNelson ------------------------------ From: Jon Green Date: 15 Nov 1994 04:47:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Mother's Maiden Name The discussion of mothers' maiden names seems to have got a leetle out of hand. The banks neither know or care whether the name you supply is indeed your mother's maiden name. They don't check! Most people haven't really had to deal with computer passwords, so, for convenience, the banks call the password "Mother's maiden name." A good ploy is to use a nonsense word utterly unlike most names, but which is personally memorable. When I applied for a well-known charge card, in the subsequent phone interview I was told explicitly, "That's not what it has to be; it can be any word you can remember," without even having asked, so credit providers are beginning to take a more sensible approach. As posters here have noted, someone's MMN is hardly the most secure password, anyway. -- jonsg@hyphen.com Jon@sundome.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ From: millera@mcs.com (Alan Miller) Date: 14 Nov 1994 17:57:23 -0600 Subject: Re: Intrusive Supermarket Card Organization: Bob's Bass House; We Got Bass! Steve Berczuk wrote: as a side note: >>for people who haven't figured out that if you pay with your Visa card you get a month's free float<< is one of the reasons I don't understand the idea behind the Express Check cards that banks are issuing: it looks like you are making a master card payment but your bank account gets debited when the merchant submits the credit slip rather than the bank issuing you a bill. Can anyone explain what these cards offer above what a credit card does, besides opening you up to problems is you lose the card (if you lose a credit card, no money has left your bank account....) I think the debit cards are primarily used if you have a bad credit history, or for kids who don't have a credit history. Since your (apparent) line of credit is just what you have in the bank, the bank doesn't need to worry about defaults. -- Alan Miller \\ millera@mcs.com AJM's WWW page ------------------------------ From: fd@wwa.com (Glen L. Roberts) Date: 15 Nov 1994 16:54:10 GMT Subject: Re: Intrusive Supermarket Card Organization: WorldWide Access - Chicago Area Internet Services 312-282-8605 708-367-1871 John Wendt (jwendt@kosepc02.delcoelect.com) wrote: Clearly market research. Answers will be used by Marsh and will no doubt go to manufacturers of products sddressing the maladies asked about. Up here the Jewel stores on their "preferred" care, ask for SSN, Drivers license number, phone and other goodies to package with the data they collect on you. The savings is minimal, compared to regular coupons and probably you spend more... because of the point of sale, "special..." they get you to buy stuff you didn't intend to when you left home... -- Glen L. Roberts, Editor, Full Disclosure Host Full Disclosure Live (WWCR 5,065 khz - Sundays 7pm central) email fd@sashimi.wwa.com for catalog on privacy & surveillance. Does 10555-1-708-356-9646 give you an "ANI" readback? With name? email for uuencoded .TIF of T-Shirt Honoring the FBI ------------------------------ From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) Date: 15 Nov 1994 16:57:06 GMT Subject: Re: Intrusive Supermarket Card Organization: Delco Electronics Corp. Scott Bennett wrote: Sounds like Marsh Supermarkets is a latecomer to this sort of offensive marketing measure. Jewel Tea (Jewel Foods) has been up to this nonsense for at least a year now. Jewel calls it the "Preferred Card." How hard is it to give them 'white innocent lie' answers to the questions? Kids like Ice Cream? NO :-) Kids like Celery? YES :-) :-) Unless they're really trying, what are they going to do about it if you lie? Be prosecuted by the FCC (Federal Coupons Commision)? -- Spiros Triantafyllopoulos Kokomo, IN 46904 (317) 451-0815 Software Development Tools, AD/SI c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com Delco Electronics/GM Hughes Electronics "Reading, 'Rithmetic, and Readnews" ------------------------------ From: johnl@iecc.com (John R Levine) Date: 15 Nov 94 15:49 EST Subject: Re: Intrusive Supermarket Card Organization: I.E.C.C., Cambridge, Mass. I wrote: They all ask for SSN, but I've only run into one (Stop and Shop) who refused to give me a checks cashing card without one. berczuk@space.mit.edu responded I tried applying for a check cashing card at a "Bread & Circus" which is a store that puts forth a healthy food/politically correct image. When I asked why I needed to give a SSN for a check cashing card I got a letter explaining how the SSN was the "only unique identifier" they could use ... Oh, you asked the wrong question. The true answer to "Why do you want my SSN?" is "Because we're nosy." You should have asked, politely, "do you require my SSN as a condition of doing business, or would you prefer that I shop elsewhere?" I got a check cashing card a few years ago at B&C without giving an SSN and I don't recall getting a big argument. Just remember that the best answer to "What's your SSN?" is "Duh?" In fact, I lost by B&C card a few years ago and never bothered to replace it because now they take my Visa card. as a side note: >>for people who haven't figured out that if you pay with your Visa card you get a month's free float<< is one of the reasons I don't understand the idea behind the Express Check cards that banks are issuing: it looks like you are making a master card payment but your bank account gets debited when the merchant submits the credit slip rather than the bank issuing you a bill. Can anyone explain what these cards offer above what a credit card does, besides opening you up to problems is you lose the card (if you lose a credit card, no money has left your bank account....) Nothing. You have to go through the same credit application as you would for a real credit card, but you get no float and less protection against bogus charges. BayBank, the bank that issues these cards here, used to compound the insult by charging 15 cents/transaction, but they eventually backed off from that. The best answers I've gotten when I ask people why they use these things are vague comments about imposing better financial discipline or something. But anyone who banks at BayBanks has already self-identified as a masochist. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies" ------------------------------ From: wbe@psr.com (Winston Edmond) Date: 15 Nov 1994 01:49:06 GMT Subject: Re: E-mail headers Organization: Panther Software and Research "Houston, James A." asks: My question is this, *if* a "blind" carbon copy is directed to the president of my company, can I see that transaction in the header, or is that type of thing controlled by the email application being used, e.g., ccmail? I just want to know if there is a way to *detect* if my mail is being directed to secret places I normally would not be aware of. (I assume "my mail" means mail sent TO you, not mail FROM you.) The basic answer, for a variety of reasons is "NO", you should assume you can't tell. "Blind" means just that -- all recipients can see who's on the To: and Cc: lists, but no recipient can see who's on the blind Cc list. This also means that replies will not automatically go to the blind Cc recipients. (1) If someone else is sending the mail, their application code and mail system have complete control over the content of the message (such as indicating whether there were bcc recipients for the message). (2) Some mail programs will add a BCC: line to the message if YOU are a blind Cc recipient, to let you know why the message was delivered to you. (3) All this is irrelevant. By just Cc'ing myself, I can forward the copy I get back to anyone I want, without using blind Cc, and none of the original recipients will have any indication that I've done so. Blind Cc just makes this easier. -WBE ------------------------------ From: fd@wwa.com (Glen L. Roberts) Date: 15 Nov 1994 16:52:28 GMT Subject: Re: Must I Always Carry I.D? Organization: WorldWide Access - Chicago Area Internet Services 312-282-8605 708-367-1871 amy young-leith wrote If you are pulled over and you HAVE a valid drivers license issued to you, but you don't have it WITH you (it's at home on the table or in your purse slung on the chair or...), is THAT a crime? Will you be charged with something? Will you have any chance to obtain your license to avoid this charge if there is one? Kevin Kadow (kadokev@rci.ripco.com) wrote: Well, at least in Illinois, the state police have all your drivers license information on file, so if you don't have your license with your they _could_ pull it up on the computer- but the computer is often very out of date, they told me I had a license when the most I've ever had was a training permit, and that expired years ago. from listening to the police scanner, I would say that what is IMPORTANT is what the COMPUTER says. If it says you are suspended, revoked, have no license, or whatever, the little card in your pocket is REALLY WORLTHLESS. Now, it is probably a criminal offense, not to have it... but if the computer says you are OK, and the cop is being nice and you aren't jerking him around, you'll probably get a warning or a lecture. The police really do love what is in their computer. They spend most of their time running name and plates through it.... they should spend have that time going after real criminals... not just hoping to find someone with a warrant... It is interesting on how discussions of whether you have to carry ID turn into discussions of whether you have to carry your drivers license when driving! -- Glen L. Roberts, Editor, Full Disclosure Host Full Disclosure Live (WWCR 5,065 khz - Sundays 7pm central) email fd@sashimi.wwa.com for catalog on privacy & surveillance. Does 10555-1-708-356-9646 give you an "ANI" readback? With name? email for uuencoded .TIF of T-Shirt Honoring the FBI ------------------------------ From: sgs@access.digex.net (Steve Smith) Date: 15 Nov 1994 16:20:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Must I Always Carry I.D? Organization: Agincourt Computing amy young-leith wrote: On a related tangent, I've had an arguement with friends over the issue of what happens if you DO NOT carry your driver's license with you. If you are pulled over and you HAVE a valid drivers license issued to you, but you don't have it WITH you (it's at home on the table or in your purse slung on the chair or...), is THAT a crime? Will you be charged with something? Will you have any chance to obtain your license to avoid this charge if there is one? Every place that I have driven, it is an offence not to have the licanse (and sometimes, the registration and proof of insurance) with you in the car. Compared to "driving without a license", it is a realy lightweight offence. Driving without a license, in turn is lightweight compared to driving on a suspended or revoked license. You can get jail for that one. Check your local laws. Vehicular laws vary all over the place. -- Steve Smith Agincourt Computing sgs@access.digex.net (301) 681 7395 "Truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense." ------------------------------ From: sgs@access.digex.net (Steve Smith) Date: 15 Nov 1994 16:29:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Must I Always Carry I.D? Organization: Agincourt Computing Lawrence *The Dreamer* Chen wrote: Along a similar line.....if I'm supposed to have ID, what constitutes valid ID? Does it have to have a photograph? If so, just where does one get one aside from their passport? Everybody seems to automatically ask for a driver's licence as ID, ... All the states that I've checked have a "non driver's ID". It looks like a driver's license, it's issued by the same people, but it doesn't let you drive a car. Unfortunately, some non-drivers that I know have had problems buying things by check, because the drelbs at the store are told to get "a driver's license and a major credit card" as ID. If they don't follow the rules exactly, they can get fired. "Driver's license" means a driver's license and nothing else. In a lighter vein, one time I was picking up my car after having it repaired at the local dealer. They required ID before they would release a car. One of the forms of "acceptable ID" that they would accept is a state non-driver's ID .... -- Steve Smith Agincourt Computing sgs@access.digex.net (301) 681 7395 "Truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense." ------------------------------ From: Shawn Leard <71370.2551@compuserve.com> Date: 15 Nov 94 14:36:15 EST Subject: Norton's DISKREET I am doing some research on a product called DISKREET that comes with the Norton utilities and was wondering if anyone has any information on how secure it is? -- Thanks, Shawn ------------------------------ From: "Prof. L. P. Levine" Date: 26 Sep 1994 12:45:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Info on CPD, Contributions, Subscriptions, FTP, etc. Organization: University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee The Computer Privacy Digest is a forum for discussion on the effect of technology on privacy or vice versa. The digest is moderated and gatewayed into the USENET newsgroup comp.society.privacy (Moderated). Submissions should be sent to comp-privacy@uwm.edu and administrative requests to comp-privacy-request@uwm.edu. If you read this from the comp.society.privacy newsgroup and wish to contribute a message, you should simply post your contribution. As a moderated newsgroup, attempts to post to the group are normally turned into eMail to the submission address below. On the other hand, if you read the digest eMailed to you, you generally need only use the Reply feature of your mailer to contribute. If you do so, it is best to modify the "Subject:" line of your mailing. Contributions generally are acknowledged within 24 hours of submission. An article is printed if it is relevant to the charter of the digest. If selected, it is printed within two or three days. The moderator reserves the right to delete extraneous quoted material. He may change the subject line of an article in order to make it easier for the reader to follow a discussion. He will not, however, alter or edit or append to the text except for purely technical reasons. A library of back issues is available on ftp.cs.uwm.edu [129.89.9.18]. Login as "ftp" with password identifying yourid@yoursite. The archives are in the directory "pub/comp-privacy". People with gopher capability can most easily access the library at gopher.cs.uwm.edu. Mosaic users will find it at gopher://gopher.cs.uwm.edu. Older archives are also held at ftp.pica.army.mil [129.139.160.133]. ---------------------------------+----------------------------------------- Leonard P. Levine | Moderator of: Computer Privacy Digest Professor of Computer Science | and comp.society.privacy University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee | Post: comp-privacy@uwm.edu Box 784, Milwaukee WI 53201 | Information: comp-privacy-request@uwm.edu | Gopher: gopher.cs.uwm.edu levine@cs.uwm.edu | Mosaic: gopher://gopher.cs.uwm.edu ---------------------------------+----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of Computer Privacy Digest V5 #063 ****************************** .