Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 13:38:04 EST Errors-To: Comp-privacy Error Handler From: Computer Privacy Digest Moderator To: Comp-privacy@uwm.edu Subject: Computer Privacy Digest V5#023 Computer Privacy Digest Fri, 12 Aug 94 Volume 5 : Issue: 023 Today's Topics: Moderator: Leonard P. Levine Re: Big Brother at Checkout Stand Re: Big Brother at Checkout Stand Re: Big Brother at Checkout Stand Re: Big Brother at Checkout Stand Re: Fingerprinting Rules Re: Fingerprinting Rules Re: Fingerprinting Rules Re: SSN Required by Sprint in U.S. Re: Towards Natl ID card? Re: Answering Machine Features Electronic Cash Privacy Conference, 9/9/94 CPSR Annual Meeting, Oct 8-9, San Diego C. P. D. Closed Until 8/22 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Housekeeping information is located at the end of this Digest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis G Rears (FSS" Date: 10 Aug 1994 20:23:28 GMT Subject: Re: Big Brother at Checkout Stand Organization: U.S Army ARDEC, Picatinny Arsenal, NJ Wil McCarthy wrote: The clerk was then forced to ask for my driver's license, and to type in my date of birth, to prove to the computer that I was old enough to buy beer. I'm 28 years old and look every day of it, and there was quite a long line behind me, and the clerk was clearly furious at having to do this for the nth time on a busy day. Too bad that didn't happen to me. Perfect situation. Long lines, ticked off people, and in the middle of checking out. I would have refused to provide ID. If they refused to sell me the beer, I would have just walked out leaving everything on the counter. I then would tell my friends about this and they would do the same. ------------------------------ From: klootzak@stein3.u.washington.edu (Michael Stuyt) Date: 11 Aug 1994 17:04:48 GMT Subject: Re: Big Brother at Checkout Stand Organization: University of Washington Wil McCarthy wrote: The clerk was then forced to ask for my driver's license, and to type in my date of birth, to prove to the computer that I was old enough to buy beer. I'm 28 years old and look every day of it, and there was quite a long line behind me, and the clerk was clearly furious at having to do this for the nth time on a busy day. I know the new Colorado Licenses have a magstrip on the back. Probably be at the point where you drag the license through a reader as proof of age... -- Michael A. Stuyt<-->finger for public key<----------klootzak@u.washington.edu Western Hockey League Mailing List POC (whl@u.washington.edu) :to subscribe email klootzak@u.washington.edu with the subject "WHL SUB" PGP ver 2.6 fingerprint: BD 47 07 A5 0F CB C8 90 48 CB E7 D8 32 2C 27 AE ------------------------------ From: daved@KaPRE.COM (David Dvorkin) Date: 11 Aug 1994 18:47:32 GMT Subject: Re: Big Brother at Checkout Stand Organization: KaPRE Software, Inc. Wil McCarthy wrote: The clerk was then forced to ask for my driver's license, and to type in my date of birth, to prove to the computer that I was old enough to buy beer. I'm 28 years old and look every day of it, and there was quite a long line behind me, and the clerk was clearly furious at having to do this for the nth time on a busy day. No doubt King Soopers wants to protect themselves from any possible problem with the law. They can point to this procedure as proof that they couldn't possibly have sold alcohol to someone underaged. Or if they did, it was the clerk's fault, not the company's. The chilling effect of what Big Brother might do can be worse than what BB actually does do. Equally destructive is corporate spinelessness -- easier to institute urine analysis in the workplace or such checks as the above than to oppose BB. ------------------------------ From: feldman@tis.com (Mark S. Feldman) Date: 12 Aug 1994 12:45:18 GMT Subject: Re: Big Brother at Checkout Stand Organization: Trusted Informations Systems Wil McCarthy wrote: The clerk was then forced to ask for my driver's license, and to type in my date of birth, to prove to the computer that I was old enough to buy beer. I'm 28 years old and look every day of it, and there was quite a long line behind me, and the clerk was clearly furious at having to do this for the nth time on a busy day. Depending on the jurisdiction, the penalty for selling alcohol to a minor consistently or even once might be high fines or loss of the license to sell such beverages. Some jurisdictions might even require that the age of all purchasers of alcholic beverages be verified and failing to do so might result in a penalty, even if the purchaser would otherwise meet the age requirement. One instance of poor judgement on any clerk's part could cost the store dearly. The store is just trying to follow the law and stay in business. ------------------------------ From: tenney@netcom.com (Glenn S. Tenney) Date: 10 Aug 1994 16:58:17 -0800 Subject: Re: Fingerprinting Rules Most groups I've seen over the years that fingerprinted kids gave the prints back to the parents right then and there --- no copies were EVER kept. The idea being that the parents should keep a current picture of their kids, descriptions, and the prints in a safe place in case they are ever needed. Some of the newer groups have gone to computerized systems and offer keeping this information on-line for the parents --- since many parents just don't keep things like fingerprints, pictures, etc. easily accessible. I don't think there's any ulterior motive in trying to develop a database of people's prints... but who knows. As has been noted, fingerprinting will not do anything to prevent an abduction. What it will do is to allow a positive ID... when the child is returned or if the child should be found dead (remember, it might be years before a child is returned and memories might fail... or the child might be an infant when abducted and kids change a LOT at that age in a year or two). One of the worst things to happen to the parents in an abduction case is NOT KNOWING. The prints are one more way to help gain closure on an awful situation. It is much much worse to go for years not knowing what happened than to be able to deal with the grief of knowing for sure... -- Glenn Tenney tenney@netcom.com Amateur radio: AA6ER (415) 574-3420 Fax: (415) 574-0546 ------------------------------ From: pstouffl@dsg.harvard.edu (Paul Stoufflet) Date: 11 Aug 1994 13:21:58 +0000 Subject: Re: Fingerprinting Rules Organization: Decision Systems Group tenney@netcom.com (Glenn S. Tenney) wrote: "Dave Niebuhr" wrote: It seems to me that the first paragraph is the key one in this issue. The operative word is voluntary and no matter what anyone says, voluntary means just that -- voluntary. It would seem that in this case it was voluntary (not that I like it, but)... if you didn't do it then you would almost certainly not get the job because the prints were a part of the "evaluation" process. In other words... the prints were voluntary because you could choose to apply or not apply for the job --- your choice, no one is forcing you. In Texas (and probably other states) you have to be fingerprinted in order to get a medical license (and you have to have a license in order to practice medicine). I suppose under Niebuhr's definition this would be voluntary, I could have just chosen to abandon 4 years of medical school and tens of thousands of dollars of tuition, not to mention the future income of a practicing physician. Just remember, when someone accosts you and says "your money or your life", at least they are giving you a choice. -- Paul Stoufflet Social Security: The world's Decision Systems Group most successful Ponzi scheme. Brigham and Women's Hospital 75 Francis Street Boston, MA 02115 internet: pstouffl@dsg.harvard.edu work: (617) 732-7746 ------------------------------ From: O1EVERT@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Tom Evert) Date: 11 Aug 94 21:16:53 EDT Subject: Re: Fingerprinting Rules Organization: The University of Akron tenney@netcom.com (Glenn S. Tenney) wrote: "Dave Niebuhr" wrote: It seems to me that the first paragraph is the key one in this issue. The operative word is voluntary and no matter what anyone says, voluntary means just that -- voluntary. It would seem that in this case it was voluntary (not that I like it, but)... if you didn't do it then you would almost certainly not get the job because the prints were a part of the "evaluation" process. In other words... the prints were voluntary because you could choose to apply or not apply for the job --- your choice, no one is forcing you. Agreed that you not get the job. The word voluntary has more than one meaning. Check your IRS booklet - it says we have a 'voluntary' tax system. How many people do you know chose not to 'volunteer' to pay their taxes? BTW - my wife had to be fingerprinted as well as a backround check thru BCI. Her prints were also on a FBI fingerprint card. She HAD to do this before she could work in the kitchen at primary, secondary and high schools in a near-by town. She didn't have a problem with the process. It's for the 'good' of the kids, I guess. I still have to wonder what else will be done with her prints (other than keep them on file). I think they should have been returned to her. I choose not to 'volunteer' to pee in a bottle nor do I want to have this process forced upon me in my present or any future job. The same is true for fingerprinting. I have nothing to hide and I shouldn't have to prove it! Guilty until proven innocent doesn't get it. ------------------------------ From: poivre@netcom.com (Poivre) Date: 10 Aug 1994 22:49:19 GMT Subject: Re: SSN Required by Sprint in U.S. Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Poivre (poivre@netcom.com) wrote: Sprint really sees nothing as a privacy issue. First they've got the Friends and Family program which they use to annoy your friends and family, and now this! Sprint doesn't seem to know what privacy is, or care. I would never use Sprint. Ooops!! Sorry, I got my phone companies mixed up. Thanks to all who pointed out my error. *blush* -- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . poivre@netcom.com : #include : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ------------------------------ From: Christopher Zguris <0004854540@mcimail.com> Date: 10 Aug 94 17:00 EST Subject: Re: Towards Natl ID card? This whole arguement about curbing "illegal" employees through smart ID cards etc. is nonsense. The problem as it currently stands is the inability of employers to _verify_ the SSN numbers and identity of current and perspective employees. An employer should be able to somehow verify -- in real-time -- a SSN to make sure it matches the name, address etc. on file for the SSN given. A system like VISA and MASTERCARD use for their merchants would be a good idea, a merchant calls the issuing bank to verify a suspect charge and the bank verifies the name and address of the cardholder (the bank doesn't offer any info, only _verifies_ what the merchant has). I would prefer a system along these lines instead of a "new" system that forces a universal card -- think about the costs in dollars and privacy invasion of a national ID card. A national ID card looks like a new and innovative to spend _much_ more of our tax dollars _and_ invade our privacy (with the help of that model of efficiency and privacy -- he said sarcasticly -- the US Postal Service). ------------------------------ From: briang@access.digex.net (Brian G.) Date: 12 Aug 1994 08:36:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Answering Machine Features Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Poivre wrote: I have an answering machine made by Panasonic and it has that listening feature too. It also has a button that you can push (this is not a remote feature) to record the phone conversation you are having. I only discovered these features upon reading the manual. Its not listed on the box. Wouldn't you notice the ringing on the phone before the answering machine picked up the line, or are the machines intelligent enough to listen for the codes without going 'off-hook'? (Mine is way older than these ones...it's an 8-track ;-) ------------------------------ From: pgilmart@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Paul Gilmartin) Date: 11 Aug 1994 01:39:50 -0600 Subject: Electronic Cash Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Andrew Burt (aburt@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu) wrote: jnash@nyx10.cs.du.edu (John Nash) writes: I'd rather we just went straight to "cash cards" (still anonymous, as now) -- Australia and many parts of Canada have cash cards - where you pay shopping bills, gas, etc with your bank card, and it debits the amount Ah, but that's the problem -- it's not anonymous. Cash is. I.e., I don't have to spread around my credit card# or bank account# for prying eyes to The August, 1992 Scientific American contained an article by David Chaum, "Achieving Electronic Privacy", which proposed a scheme involving multiple public keys which could issue you a "Magic Cookie", which could be authenticated, used only once, and not traced. I didn't understand it, and I'm not sure I believe it. Is the proposal sound? ------------------------------ From: Dave Banisar Date: 10 Aug 1994 17:21:49 EST Subject: Privacy Conference, 9/9/94 Organization: Electronic Privacy Information Center CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT --------------------------- TECHNOLOGIES OF SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES OF PROTECTION --------------------------- Sponsored by Privacy International The University of Eindhoven The Electronic Privacy Information Center Friday,September 9, 1994 Nieuws Poort International Press Centre The Hague, The Netherlands The conference will bring together experts in law, privacy, human rights, telecommunications and technology to discuss new technological developments that affect personal privacy. The sessions will be interactive, starting with introductions to the subjects by leading experts, followed by questions and discussion led by the moderators. 8:45 Introduction Simon Davies, Chairman, Privacy International 9:00 Information Infrastructures Marc Rotenberg, Electronic Privacy Information Center (US) Stephanie Perrin, Industry Canada 10:00 Euopean Government Information Sharing Networks Jos Dumatier, professor of law and director of the Interdisciplinary Centre for Law and Information Technology (ICRI) at K.U.Leuven 11:00 Cryptography Policy David Banisar, Electronic Privacy Information Center Jan Smiths, University of Eindhoven 12:00 Lunch 1:00 Smart Cards and Anonymous Digital Transactions David Chaum, Digicash 2:00 Wrap up --------------------------------------------------------------------- Registration Fees [] Standard - 220 guilders ($120 US) [] Non-profit organisations/Educational - 75 guilders ($40 US) Information Name: ____________________________________________________________ Organization: ______________________________________________________ Address:_____________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________ Phone/Fax:___________________________________________________________ Electronic Mail: ____________________________________________________ Send registration to: Privacy International Washington Office Attn: Conference Registration 666 Pennsylvania Ave, SE, Suite 301 Washington, DC 20003 Make Check/Money Order in US Dollars out to Privacy International Space is limited, please contact us immediately if you wish to attend! For more information, contact: David Banisar 1+202-544-9240(voice) 1+202-547-5482(fax) banisar@epic.org (email) ------------------------------ From: cpsr-announce@Sunnyside.COM Date: 11 Aug 1994 11:40:25 -0700 Subject: CPSR Annual Meeting, Oct 8-9, San Diego ************************** Please distribute and post ************************** ************************************************************************ COMPUTER PROFESSIONALS FOR SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY ANNUAL MEETING October 8 - 9, 1994 University of California, San Diego Price Center La Jolla, California, USA Organizing for Access: A National Forum on Computer Networking, Community Action, and Democracy ************************************************************************ In the few short years since the first proposals for a National Information Infrastructure (NII), a broad social movement has arisen to put that vision into action in communities across the country. A remarkable range of people -- educators, librarians, community activists, computer people, government agencies, advocates for people with disabilities, and others -- have been using computer networks to deliver services and to organize themselves behind an emerging agenda for computing and networking in the public interest. CPSR is convening this meeting for all people interested in the place of computer technology in society, with the goal of bringing together a wide range of voices to discuss the ways in which the NII might serve the needs of society and to empower one another to pursue shared goals in the new technological world. Our meeting this year will place particular emphasis on providing would-be activists with the skills and connections they need to put the vision of democratic technology into practice. Saturday, October 8th 8:00 - 9:00 Registration/Coffee 9:00 - 9:15 Welcome to the CPSR Annual Meeting Phil Agre 9:15 - 10:15 Keynote address Francois Bar Department of Communication, UCSD "Staking Claims to the Network" This is a critical time for grass-roots involvement in shaping America's communications networks. National policy-making has largely deferred issues of encouraging broad access, preventing network fragmentation, and guaranteeing basic individual rights and freedoms. Francois Bar argues that broad-based access and involvement today are critical -- not as charity, but because the network's future can only be imagined and discovered through broad-based and sustained experimentation by end-users. 10:15 - 10:45 Break 10:45 - 12:30 Panel Discussion -- Moderated by Steve Miller "The Meanings of Access" The theme of "access" has united numerous groups interested in ensuring equity in the NII. But "access" is a complex concept with many equally important facets. This panel brings together leading voices for community access to technology to compare and contrast the various technical, social, and institutional meanings of access. Panelists: Karen Coyle, University of California Library Automation and CPSR-Berkeley Lee Felsenstein, Interval Research and Berkeley Community Memory Deborah Kaplan, World Institute on Disability Larry Shaw, The Exploratorium Armando Valdez, LatinoNet 12:30 - 2:00 Lunch Break 2:00 - 3:30 Panel Discussion -- Moderated by Kathleen Kells "Privacy and Intellectual Freedom" Privacy and intellectual freedom are crucial information rights shared by all people. Protecting these rights is a full-time job, one that brings the members of several professions into day-to-day contact with the the diverse and complicated circumstances in which real people need to exercise them. This panel features a discussion among three national leaders in the defense of these rights. Panelists: Beth Givens, Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, University of San Diego Judith Krug, Office for Intellectual Freedom, American Library Association Gary Richwald, Department of Health Services, County of Los Angeles 3:30 - 4:00 Break 4:00 - 5:45 Panel Discussion -- Moderated by Rik Belew "Community Networking in San Diego" Our host community of San Diego makes a fine "case study" for all of our meeting's topics. In this panel, five active community members describe the remarkable range of networking projects going on around San Diego, placing them in the context of the region's economic and institutional evolution. Panelists: Nell Allen, Department of Social Services, County of San Diego Marcia Boruta, San Diego Economic Conversion Council Sandra Hall, Community Activist Al Rogers, Global SchoolNet Foundation Mike Stark, San Diego Computer Society 5:45 - 6:00 Closing Remarks -- Judi Clark ************************************************************************ 7:00 - 7:30 No Host Bar at Banquet Site 7:30 - 10:30 CPSR Banquet - Fundraiser - UCSD Faculty Club (Vegetarian food will be available) * Presentation of the 1993 Norbert Wiener Award * Banquet Address -- Patricia Glass Schuman, Neal-Schuman Publishers "Safeguarding the Right to Know" Patricia Glass Schuman, librarian, businesswoman and activist for free speech, was 1991-92 president of the American Library Association (ALA). As ALA President, Schuman launched a series of "radio rallies" to focus public attention on threats to the public's Right to Know. Hear her call for information activism that involves the entire community in strengthening democracy by defending and expanding everyone's access to information. ************************************************************************ Sunday, October 9th 8:30 - 9:00 Coffee 9:00 - 10:00 Featured speaker Sonia Jarvis National Coalition on Black Voter Participation "The Public-Interest Aspects of the Information Superhighway" Legislators in Washington are now making policies that will affect everyone's ability to join in the social and political activities that make up a democracy. How can we make sure that those who are not technologically literate will have an opportunity to participate? Sonia Jarvis will initiate a dialog on strategies for ensuring that the public interest is given proper consideration. 10:00 - 10:15 Short Break 10:15 - 12:15 Workshops Now is the time for everyone to become an activist for democratic uses of information technology. No matter what expertise you have to offer, or what contribution you'd like to make -- whether it's running a bulletin board, starting an on-line discussion group for people with a shared interest, organizing a computer network to serve your community's needs, helping to protect everyone's privacy in a world of computer databases, getting new people into the electronic world, joining the larger public-interest movement, or drawing on the resources of the net to get people the information they need to make informed choices in a democracy -- the necessary skills, tools, and connections are readily available. In these seven workshops, national experts on technology activism will tell you how to get started with your own good deeds on Monday morning. More detailed descriptions of each workshop will be available sometime in September. Building Community Networks: Promise and Pitfalls Aki Namioka and Doug Schuler, Seattle Community Network Legal Issues for BBS Operators Mike Godwin, Electronic Frontier Foundation Network-Based Organizing Dave Banisar, Electronic Privacy Information Center Steve Miller, Administration and Finance, State of Massachusetts Helping People and Organizations Get Started With Networking Eric Theise, Liberty Hill Cyberwerks Art McGee, Institute for Global Communications Investigative Reporting on the Internet Marsha Woodbury, University of Illinois Paul Lester, California State University, Fullerton Privacy Activism Christine Harbs, Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, University of San Diego Dave Redell, CPSR Privacy and Civil Liberties Working Group Public Interest Activism and the NII Policy Process Bill Drake, Department of Communication, UC San Diego 12:15 - 1:30 Lunch Break 1:30 - 4:30 CPSR Organizational Discussion in parallel with informal discussion groups 4:30 - 5:00 Closing Remarks -- Eric Roberts ************************************************************************ ABOUT CPSR Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility is a national, non-partisan, public-interest organization dedicated to understanding and directing the impact of computers on society. Decisions regarding the use of this technology have far-reaching consequences that necessarily reflect the basic values and priorities of the people who govern their use. Founded in 1981, CPSR has 1800 members from all over the United States and 21 chapters. Each of our members is an important participant in the dialogue that is helping to shape the future use of computers in the United States. Our National Advisory Board includes one Nobel laureate and three winners of the Turing Award, the highest honor in computer science. CPSR published the influential report "Serving the Community" on policy issues in the National Information Infrastructure, and is an active participant in the Telecommunications Policy Roundtable in Washington. We believe that as the influence of computers continues to permeate every aspect of our society, it is important that professionals become active participants in formulating the policy that governs computer use and access. CPSR welcomes any and all who share our convictions, whether they work as computer professionals or not. For more information, look at the CPSR gopher server, which is located at gopher.cpsr.org, as well as the new CPSR WorldWide Web pages, whose URL is http://www.cpsr.org/home. Coming soon in these pages: much more information about the Annual Meeting. ************************************************************************ Registration Form Please pre-register as soon as possible to ensure a space at this exciting meeting. Registrations at the door will be accepted as space allows. Please send in a separate registration form for each individual attending the meeting. And please note that the Saturday night banquet is not included in the price of the meeting. Name _________________________________________________________________ Address ______________________________________________________________ City _______________________________ State _____________ Zip _________ Telephone __________________________ E-mail_____________________________ CPSR member $55 _______ Postmarked after September 20th $65 _______ Non member $75 _______ Postmarked after September 20th $85 _______ New CPSR membership & registration $95 _______ Postmarked after September 20th $105 _______ Low income $25 _______ Postmarked after September 20th $35 _______ Banquet tickets $40 X ___ = _______ Postmarked after September 20th $45 X ___ = _______ Additional donation to further CPSR's work _______ Total enclosed _______ For more information contact CPSR at (415) 322-3778 or cpsr@cpsr.org. Send the completed registration form with your check to: CPSR, PO Box 717, Palo Alto, CA 94302. ************************************************************************ --- CPSR ANNOUNCE LIST END --- ------------------------------ From: "Prof. L. P. Levine" Date: 12 Aug 1994 08:40:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: C. P. D. Closed Until 8/22 Organization: University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee The Computer Privacy Digest will shut down for 1 week while the moderator takes a trip west. Postings and subscription/unsubscription requests during this vacation will not be acknowledged until 8/22. ---------------------------------+----------------------------------------- Leonard P. Levine | Moderator of: Computer Privacy Digest Professor of Computer Science | and comp.society.privacy University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee | Post: comp-privacy@uwm.edu Box 784, Milwaukee WI 53201 | Information: comp-privacy-request@uwm.edu | Gopher: gopher.cs.uwm.edu levine@cs.uwm.edu | Mosaic: gopher://gopher.cs.uwm.edu ---------------------------------+----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ The Computer Privacy Digest is a forum for discussion on the effect of technology on privacy or vice versa. The digest is moderated and gatewayed into the USENET newsgroup comp.society.privacy (Moderated). Submissions should be sent to comp-privacy@uwm.edu and administrative requests to comp-privacy-request@uwm.edu. Back issues are available via anonymous ftp on ftp.cs.uwm.edu [129.89.9.18]. Login as "ftp" with password "yourid@yoursite". The archives are in the directory "pub/comp-privacy". People with gopher capability can access the library at gopher.cs.uwm.edu. Mosaic users will find it at gopher://gopher.cs.uwm.edu. Archives are also held at ftp.pica.army.mil [129.139.160.133]. End of Computer Privacy Digest V5 #023 ****************************** .