Computer Privacy Digest Fri, 08 Jul 94 Volume 5 : Issue: 002 Today's Topics: Moderator: Leonard P. Levine Video cameras in City Centres IRS SSN risks may abate Re: Question About CallerID Re: Question About CallerID Re: Question About CallerID Re: Question About CallerID Re: Question About CallerID Re: Question About CallerID Re: Physical Location via Cell Phone Re: Get Your Files & More What's a Cop to Do? The Computer Privacy Digest is a forum for discussion on the effect of technology on privacy. The digest is moderated and gatewayed into the USENET newsgroup comp.society.privacy (Moderated). Submissions should be sent to comp-privacy@uwm.edu and administrative requests to comp-privacy-request@uwm.edu. Back issues are available via anonymous ftp on ftp.cs.uwm.edu [129.89.9.18]. Login as "ftp" with password "yourid@yoursite". The archives are in the directory "pub/comp-privacy". Archives are also held at ftp.pica.army.mil [129.139.160.133]. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Prof. L. P. Levine" Date: 08 Jul 1994 11:16:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Video cameras in City Centres Organization: University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee from Risks-Forum Digests (16:20,21) Forum on Risks to the Public in Computers and Related Systems ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy, Peter G. Neumann, moderator From: "Scott A. McIntyre" Date: 06 Jul 1994 11:50:25 +0100 (BST) Subject: Video cameras in City Centres In a report on the BBC last night (Tue July 5, 1994) the merits and RISKS of the recent installation of a city centre wide television monitoring system in Liverpool was discussed. After the abduction and murder of James Bulger a year or so ago, most of the residents of Liverpool were all in favour of having their movements monitored by the bank of high resolution cameras, covering all streets in the main centre of town. A private company is in charge of the system, but the police (both local, and as the report suggested, national) have instant access to any of the camera views. There was some discussion as to the dangers of companies, organisations, and even the government obtaining access to these tapes to discover who shops where, buys what, etc; yet by and large people seemed willing to allow Big Brother to move in to combat crime and make the streets safer. The RISKS are obvious. With enough crime, poverty, social decay, people may be willing to assign away all personal freedom in the perhaps futile attempt to recover the lost days of leaving your front door open and unlocked, and your car window rolled down whilst you shop. ------------------------------ From: Robert.Allen@eng.sun.com (Robert Allen) Date: 06 Jul 1994 20:24:40 GMT Subject: Re: Video cameras in City Centres (RISKS-16.20) An interesting report. Even more interesting to me because I first read about the efforts to instrument society w/ video cameras in a comic book about 5 years ago, and the comic had been written at least 10 years ago. For those interested in seeking it out, the comic was a limited series (perhaps 10 issues) called V for Vendetta. It was written by an English author (I believe it was Alan Moore) who had a 1 page editorial in one of the issues wherein he decried the slide of English society into what he saw as facism. In his preface he wrote that he hoped to get himself and his family out of England as soon as possible because of what he saw happening to society. I believe he specifically mentioned TV cameras on street corners, and these were definitely central to the story. They also had audio pickup capability, and vandalizing them was a capital crime. The story dealt with how the English gov't became facist after a 3rd world war. "V" is a lone hero (?) who bucks the system, assassinating various gov't figures, with an ending I won't spoil for you. Life imitates art. The complete series is available at any decent comic book store (check your yellow pages) or even a large book store, in bound, graphic novel format. ------------------------------ From: "Prof. L. P. Levine" Date: 08 Jul 1994 11:17:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: IRS SSN risks may abate Organization: University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee from Risks-Forum Digest (16:21) Forum on Risks to the Public in Computers and Related Systems ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy, Peter G. Neumann, moderator From: gerlek@cse.ogi.edu (Michael Gerlek) Date: 06 Jul 94 13:13 PDT Subject: IRS SSN risks may abate from the Wall Street Journal, 6 Jul 94 (pg A1, col 5): IRS officials are considering removing Social Security numbers from the mailing labels taxpayers stick on their returns. The reason: "Some concerns about privacy," an IRS spokesman says. -[mpg] gerlek@cse.ogi.edu [Good news! I raised that topic along with some related problems raised by RISKS readers (such as the amount of the check peeking through the envelope window) at my IRS Commissioner's Advisory Group meeting in DC three weeks ago. I'm delighted to see a speedy reaction! PGN] ------------------------------ From: bernie@fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) Date: 03 Jul 1994 02:02:10 GMT Subject: Re: Question About CallerID Organization: Fantasy Farm, Pearisburg, VA "J. Shickel" writes: Does 'Caller ID' return the telephone number of callers with unlisted numbers? I think it may vary by region, but the folks served by Bell Atlantic are told: {\bf Note}: If you are in an equipped area and you call someone within your Bell Atlantic Regional Calling Area who has {\bf Caller ID}, your number will be shown on their display unit even if you do not have the service and even if your number is {\bf non-published} or {\bf non-listed}. -- Bernie Cosell bernie@fantasyfarm.com Fantasy Farm Fibers, Pearisburg, VA (703) 921-2358 ------------------------------ From: kadokev@rci.ripco.com (Kevin Kadow) Date: 03 Jul 1994 00:27:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Question About CallerID "J. Shickel" writes: Does 'Caller ID' return the telephone number of callers with unlisted numbers? At least in Chicago, not only will Caller ID give the number, but CID with name gives the name for any caller, listed or unlisted, who they've got around to entering into their database- unfortunately the database seems to be consistently a few months behind reality. -- kadokev@ripco.com Kevin Kadow FREE Usenet/Mail, inexpensive Internet - Ripco... Wearing white hats since 1983 Dialup:(312) 665-0065|Gopher:gopher.ripco.com|Telnet:foley.ripco.com ('info') ------------------------------ From: aa996@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Francoys Crepeau) Date: 06 Jul 1994 17:54:03 GMT Subject: Re: Question About CallerID Organization: The National Capital FreeNet "J. Shickel" writes: Does 'Caller ID' return the telephone number of callers with unlisted numbers? Yup! It'll even display most long-distance numbers! However, the number will be displayed as unavailable under some conditions, such as: caller routed thru a PBX, caller in an exchange with old switching equipment, etc. Also, the phone company will (in Canada, at least) make available to you, upon request (and at no charge) the option of preceding your call with *67 (different on rotary), which will make the receiving party's call display show "PRIVATE #". This was in response to people bitching about their inability to make calls while still keeping their unlisted number unlisted. Because of the great number of non-technologically-inclined people around, I still get the occasional "How did you get my unlisted number????" reactions when I return some people's calls when they haven't even left any msg. I am curious as to what the situation is outside Canada for caller-id, call-return and these other bells and whistles... -- --------------------------------------------------------------- | Francoys Crepeau, Ottawa, Canada (613) 565-7198 (VOICE) | | aa996@freenet.carleton.ca (613) 565-7199 (FAX) | --------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: dunn@nlm.nih.gov (Joe Dunn, MSD) Date: 06 Jul 94 20:44:27 GMT Subject: Re: Question About CallerID Organization: National Library of Medicine "J. Shickel" writes: Does 'Caller ID' return the telephone number of callers with unlisted numbers? This is the primary reason for all the legal challanges to the caller id service. People who have unlisted numbers would be giving out their numbers unless there is a mechanism of blocking the number. A big advantage of having per id blocking on a call by call basis is that it would be prohibitively expensive for a telemarketing company to block their number. People could then stop answering calls from them when they see the number. Downside is that if you had an unlisted number you would have dial extra numbers for every call to block your number going out. The other solution is line blocking, in which all calls have the id blocked. Downside: what if you had to call 911 and the number was blocked because you forgot to dial the extra numbers to send your number. And telemarkters would pay a one time fee to block the number so you would be in the same boat you are now. Pick up phone, listen to pitch, hang-up rudely... Another problem is, calling an 800 number. The courts have ruled since the company with the 800 number is paying for the call they own the call and have the right to getting your number. So, how do you handle not giving out your unlisted number when you call an 800 number, even when you pay to have your number blocked?? ------------------------------ From: Wendy Resnik Date: 06 Jul 94 19:14:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Question About CallerID Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) "J. Shickel" writes: Does 'Caller ID' return the telephone number of callers with unlisted numbers? I think it depends on what state you are in. In many states, including Wisconsin where I live, unlisted and unpublished numbers are displayed with Caller ID. Unpublished/unlisted numbers are unrelated to Caller ID in the sense that when you pay for this you are paying not to be in the directory and/or not to have your number given out by Information. Some poeple assume that unpublished means it doesn't display on Caller ID b, but it ain't so. ------------------------------ From: markm@kgw2.xetron.com (Mark Malson) Date: 08 Jul 1994 03:23:07 GMT Subject: Re: Question About CallerID Organization: Xetron Corporation "J. Shickel" writes: Does 'Caller ID' return the telephone number of callers with unlisted numbers? Depends. I had an unlisted number here in Cincinnati, and I was told that when we got Caller ID, my number would squawk "PRIVATE". Well, were we surprised when my wife called my sister-in-law and she answered, "Hello, Karla." Our number _was_ being sent to Caller ID boxes. I called the phone company and they told me that I had to specifically ASK them to not transmit my number, even though my number is unlisted. I then ASKED them to do it, and they informed me that there would be a $6.00 service charge! I told them that I had been paying extra for privacy that I was told I would have yet did not, and now they want to soak me for more to get what I should have had in the first place! I asked for her supervisor who was apparently pretty busy, so she just went ahead and waived the fee. The bottom line is, you have to ASK for it, even if your number is unlisted. ----------------------------------------------------------------------\ Mark D. Malson \ A Devil's Dictionary for Democrats: \ Xetron Corporation \ \ 460 W. Crescentville Rd. \ affordable (adj.) - Of or regarding debts due \ Cincinnati, Ohio 45246 \ after the elections eight years hence. \ markm@xetron.com \ \ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------! ------------------------------ From: dcrawfo2@mason1.gmu.edu (Daniel C Crawford) Date: 02 Jul 1994 09:01:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Physical Location via Cell Phone Organization: University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee And as the cells get smaller, the location detail gets better. What will happen when we have micro-cellular phones, a cell for every building, or even a cell for every office! Think about the level of personal tracking that can be done with this level of detail! The size of the cell does not matter since the location, direction and speed of travel can be mathematically figured using triangulation of the three closest cell sites. PS> I reply since my current mailer doesn't easily do Follow-Ups but you are welcome to use this information in the forum. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Charles Crawford || "Run my name through your computer .. dcrawfo2@gmu.edu || Pore over everything in my C.V. ... 703-406-2243 || And you'll still know nothing 'bout me" Sting ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ From: palbert@netcom.com (Phil Albert) Date: 02 Jul 1994 23:03:12 GMT Subject: Re: Get Your Files & More Organization: Disorganized glr@ripco.com (Glen Roberts) writes: Directory of Fax on Demand Documents. To receive any of these, call (708) 356-9646 from your fax. Follow the prompts and press start when asked to. You'll immediately receive the information. Please note, document #'s in the 600s and 900s are strictly informative in nature. Maybe I'm missing something. If I call this number, listen and respond to the Automatic Response Unit, which converts DTMF signals to commands for an automated faxing system, I can receive documents by fax? For this to work, the documents must be on-line. Why can't I get them on-line via e-mail, ftp, gopher, www, etc.? Isn't that easier, and much cheaper? ------------------------------ From: patchman@netcom.com (J. Patrick Henry) Date: 05 Jul 1994 19:53:03 GMT Subject: What's a Cop to Do? Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Greetings Cyberati, My question regarding the Clipper is this: If a law enforcement official suspects illegal activity behind electronic enemy lines, what would he/she do for surveillance if he/she didn't have the Clipper? ------------------------------ End of Computer Privacy Digest V5 #002 ******************************