Date: Wed, 03 Feb 93 17:31:58 EST Errors-To: Comp-privacy Error Handler From: Computer Privacy Digest Moderator To: Comp-privacy@PICA.ARMY.MIL Subject: Computer Privacy Digest V2#012 Computer Privacy Digest Wed, 03 Feb 93 Volume 2 : Issue: 012 Today's Topics: Moderator: Dennis G. Rears Last Words on Speed Limits/Radar Detectors Re: Speed Limits Re: Speed Limits Re: Radar Detector Prohib Re: Radar Detector Prohib Radar Detectors vs. Poor Driving Habits The Computer Privacy Digest is a forum for discussion on the effect of technology on privacy. The digest is moderated and gatewayed into the USENET newsgroup comp.society.privacy (Moderated). Submissions should be sent to comp-privacy@pica.army.mil and administrative requests to comp-privacy-request@pica.army.mil. Back issues are available via anonymous ftp on ftp.pica.army.mil [129.139.160.133]. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 17:26:24 EST From: Computer Privacy List Moderator Subject: Last Words on Speed Limits/Radar Detectors As promised the discussions on speed limits and radar detectors will end with the publication of this digest or for USENET readers the next 5 articles. The subject really doesn't have anything to do with privacy or technology. In the future I plan to cut off nonrelavant threads a lot sooner. dennis ------------------------------ From: Harry Erwin Subject: Re: Speed Limits Organization: TRW Systems Division, Fairfax VA Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 01:06:29 GMT The reasonable and proper defense is obsolete in California and has been for many years. WHMurray points out that speed limits are generally set at the 85th percentile speed. That's ideal, and is the case in California according to my uncle, a senior traffic engineer. It is not the case in Virginia, where it appears the speed limits are set at about the 35th percentile speed. Studies have shown, BTW, that there is wide variation in what people regard as a reasonable and proper speed on a given road. The standard deviation is about 10 MPH based on the data I've seen. That's a lot of variation. Cheers, -- Harry Erwin Internet: erwin@trwacs.fp.trw.com ------------------------------ From: oxenreid@chaos.cs.umn.edu Subject: Re: Speed Limits Organization: University of Minnesota Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 18:09:32 GMT In WHMurray@dockmaster.ncsc.mil writes: >>You would probably find more people willing to obey speed limits >>if they were actually set based on local road conditions and >>necessary reaction times. >For most roads that is exactly how they are set. The highway engineer >collects information on the actual speed travelled and the speed limit >is set at the 85 percentile rounded to the nearest 5 MPH. The exception >to this rule is when the speed limit is set by law; i.e., when it is set >for political reasons. In Minnesota, the highway engineer must state a maximum 'safe design speed' in the plans. Most of the highways are rated for 75 Mph. This is done every time a reconstruction project is taken up. Some highway speeds are set for political reasons, but most are for design reasons. On occasion, it is because a State Trooper has to scoop goo off a particular spot in the highway more than twice a year. ------------------------------ From: Richard Pierson Subject: Re: Radar Detector Prohib Organization: Bellcore Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 03:47:17 GMT The New Jersey Turnpike has signs on all the bridges/overpasses with changeable signs for changing the speed limit due to weather.fog. accidents.construction. etc, why dont all states have this. If you had any concept of driving for a living instead of sitting behind a desk and commuting once in a while you would own 2 at least (1 spare) in this highly comp- etitive business world it is impossible to drive the speed limit and survive. Personally I hate driving during the "rush hours" most of you commuter drivers are extremely poor at best and downright dangerous at worst. I consider myself a professional even though I'm in an office right now, for 12 years I drove in excess of 60,000 miles a year in the NY,NJ,PA,CT states and every close call I have ever been involved in was during commuter hours. Have any of you tried to maintain a safe distance from the car in front of you, it's impossible, modern commuters abhor empty space in front of you and insist on filling it as quickly as you make it. How about the AH who wants to make it one more car space in a construction merge. My favorite though is the tractor trailers doing the 1mph pass on hills and taking 3 out of four lanes to do it.There are a lot of CDL's that should not be driving. But there are more "commuters" by far that should never be let behind the wheel. I have two detectors, one front and one rear built into my truck with indicators embeded in the instrument panel. I would sooner go somewhere without my wallet before I would go without a detector, in the future it is going to get much worse as the states try to increase revenue and use police to do it. That same radar system that the greyhound busses use is also triggered by police radar and has caused quite a few rear enders when the bus slams on the brakes (they can stop faster than a car when empty) for no reason other than a trooper had is unit on going the other way or was parked and "monitoring traffic". That radar BTW is for collision avoidence and works on the Ka band, in the near future it will come standard on the high end production cars and gradually filter down. I don't remember the "trade name" but have read alot about it in Autoweek a few years ago. and It keeps cropping up every so often. The police dont want it sold cause it screws up their Ka band radar. (hmmmmm ecm in disguise) -- ########################################################## There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES and TARGETS !!! #1/XS1100LH #2/10/10/92 Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063 Internet: fist@iscp.bellcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist #include My opinions are my own!!! I Don't shop in malls, I BUY my jeans, jackets and ammo in the same store. ------------------------------ From: "david.g.lewis" Subject: Re: Radar Detector Prohib Organization: AT&T Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 14:17:51 GMT In article Peter Swanson writes: >In article oracle!us.oracle.com!dave@uunet.uu.net (Dave Dargo) writes: >>This assumes that the government's posted speed limit is the correct >>speed limit to be able to observe such things based on the road >>conditions. The current max of 65 (still 55 in most places) has >>nothing to do with road conditions or reaction times but rather >>with some vague in-defensible (IMHO) federal government policy. >> >How do you propose to take into account varying road conditions? >The same road that would be safe at 80mph in sunny weather may >be unsafe at 65mph in rain, unsafe at 40mph in fog or blizzard, >and unsafe at 5mph in freezing rain. You don't honestly expect >someone to check road conditions and change the speed limit signs >appropriately, do you? What about drivers who have a clue what they're doing behind the wheel of an automobile? If a road is unsafe at 40mph, it doesn't matter whether the speed limit is 55, 65, 75, or 105, any speed limit is irrelevant and the driver must use his or her judgement. Of course, expecting drivers to have more than the minimum competency required to find the steering wheel and testing them to verify it would probably raise screams of discrimination against low-income and disadvantaged drivers who don't have the opportunity to learn what the hell they're doing and who *need* their cars to drive to wherever it is they're going... dave ------------------------------ From: Paul Olson Subject: Radar Detectors vs. Poor Driving Habits Organization: Mission Operations and Data Systems Date: 1 Feb 1993 11:52 EST Well, to add my $0.02 worth before Tuesday (moderator - thanks for removing the thread)... I use a radar detector, just to let everyone know up front. I have a couple of comments. 1) If Greyhound wants to use radar for their busses, fine. If the frequency of their radar is causing problems for them, they should petition the FCC for use of a non-X, K, Ka or wideband Ka frequency. They created their own problem. It shouldn't fall to the rest of us to fix it, although I do think it's a good idea for those of us who use detectors to keep this in mind when passing busses. 2) People in this country seem to lack common sense when it comes to driving in the fast lane. There is a simple rule to follow: if you're in the fast lane, and you see someone gaining on you from behind, move to the right. I can't count the number of times I've had people drive 55 in the fast lane, and REFUSE to give up the lane. These self-appointed speed enforcers pose a more dangerous threat than people driving faster than the speed limit, both from a rear-ending possibility to someone pulling a gun on you, or throwing a handful of pennies at your car as they pass. Here around D.C., I've even seen people side-swipe their cars into those refusing to give up the fast lane. Like I said, move over, and the world will be a happier place. 3) Those using the slow lanes to pass should do so only when necessary. I don't agree with zipping between lanes just for the fun of it. If you're travelling at a higher rate of speed than the other traffic, stay to the left. Be patient and allow the driver in front of you to move over. If he refuses once a free space opens up, then pass on the right. 4) For the person who used Latin American justice systems for justifying his stance to pronounce the users of radar detectors guilty until proven innocent, get an atlas and look up the name of the country in which you live. I think you'll find it to say U.S.A. It just so happens that the legal system in THAT country is innocent until proven guilty. (Sorry if you're from some other country. I didn't save the post.) 5) If the government really wanted to eliminate radar detectors and control speed instead of using speeding tickets as a revenue source, they'd do a couple of things: a) use non-standard cars for unmarked units. Here in MD, the state buys in large orders, so most of the state patrol cars are Chevy Caprice's, even the unmarked units, although a few Ford Taurus' are showing up. The best unmarked unit I've ever seen was a 1975 rusty Ford LTD; b) buy some cheap, movable microwave transmitters, and set them up along the highway. If I can't tell the difference between a cop and a dummy transmitter, I'll slow down. The solutions are simple. The political will is not. Banning detectors isn't going to eliminate them, just as D.C.'s handgun ban hasn't eliminated handguns, and prohibition didn't eliminate alcohol (although it did make for a great T.V. series, The Untouchables). __ Paul J. Olson - VAX Systems Manager & WAC Amiga SIG Chairman C= /// Voice - 301/286-4246, 301725-5501 __ /// DECnet- DSTL86::OLSON \\\/// Internet - olson@dstl86.gsfc.nasa.gov \XX/ Disclaimer: Statements in my messages are wholely my own. AMIGA "Ignorance is a renewable resource." -- P.J. O'Rourke ------------------------------ End of Computer Privacy Digest V2 #012 ******************************